(09-30-2016 01:14 PM)JMUPurple Wrote:  You can't function in society without and ID. Everyone has them or at the very least can obtain one.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/...story.html

"Across the country, about 11 percent of Americans do not have government-issued photo identification cards, such as a driver’s license or a passport, according to Wendy Weiser of the Democracy Program at the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law."

Virginia is one of those states requiring photo ID. Most of the states that have the legislation passed are deep southern states.

Voter ID laws (and other laws that attempt to place restrictions on how people can vote) are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Widespread voter fraud just doesn't happen. Sure, there are isolated instances like what happened in Harrisonburg, but that is FAR from the norm.

Comparing voter ID laws to laws requiring that people have an ID to drive or buy beer is ridiculous. Voting is a Constitutional right. In fact, it's probably the most important Constitutional right because it is central to any functioning republic. We should be making it as easy as possible to vote in this country and it's crazy to me that anyone would suggest otherwise. Unless you have a vested interest in making sure that certain types of people don't vote. Then it makes perfect sense.

I've often wondered what there is to prevent a convicted felon (or anyone for that matter) from walking up to my polling place and using my name, address, and casting a vote as me before I get there? They would then have me checked off as already voted and not allow me to vote.

Bush's DOJ investigation took 5 years, looked at millions of votes and only found 86 cases of fraud. Texas Attorney General Gregg Abbott spent 2 years and $1.4B trying to find fraud and couldn't find a single incident. I would think we could find a better cause to throw our time and money at buttttt naw that is just silly.

(09-30-2016 01:03 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  Seriously --- The line of thinking screams ---- I am a victim and willing to take ZERO responsibility for myself.

Just checked the DMV site. Getting an ID costs $10. I repeat $10. Forget about voting everyone should have some form of picture ID anyway. Seems like to me it would be pretty dang hard to function in our society without a picture ID.

You know what else is a constitutional right. The right to bear arms....but that does not mean you get one for free somewhere. You have the right the bear arms/own a gun but if you want one you will need to buy it. Which will cost far more than $10 for a picture ID.

This is pretty hilariously logically fallacious on basically all points.

"Seriously --- The line of thinking screams ---- I am a victim and willing to take ZERO responsibility for myself."
Your logical fallacy is ad hominem.

"Just checked the DMV site. Getting an ID costs $10. I repeat $10." You're ignoring Potomac's point that (often large) fees can be associated with the documents required to get an ID. Your logical fallacy is strawman.

"Forget about voting everyone should have some form of picture ID anyway."
Your logical fallacy is bandwagon.

"You know what else is a constitutional right. The right to bear arms....but that does not mean you get one for free somewhere."
What on Earth? Needless to say, your logical fallacy is false cause.

(09-30-2016 01:28 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  I've often wondered what there is to prevent a convicted felon (or anyone for that matter) from walking up to my polling place and using my name, address, and casting a vote as me before I get there? They would then have me checked off as already voted and not allow me to vote.

Have you ever, once, known this to have happened to someone?

(09-30-2016 01:27 PM)jmu14 Wrote:  Voter ID laws (and other laws that attempt to place restrictions on how people can vote) are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Widespread voter fraud just doesn't happen. Sure, there are isolated instances like what happened in Harrisonburg, but that is FAR from the norm.

Comparing voter ID laws to laws requiring that people have an ID to drive or buy beer is ridiculous. Voting is a Constitutional right. In fact, it's probably the most important Constitutional right because it is central to any functioning republic. We should be making it as easy as possible to vote in this country and it's crazy to me that anyone would suggest otherwise. Unless you have a vested interest in making sure that certain types of people don't vote. Then it makes perfect sense.

The last presidential election there was a three hour wait in line at my precinct. Many, many working people simply left without voting. So who do you think benefits from those long lines?

(09-30-2016 01:32 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 01:27 PM)jmu14 Wrote:  Voter ID laws (and other laws that attempt to place restrictions on how people can vote) are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Widespread voter fraud just doesn't happen. Sure, there are isolated instances like what happened in Harrisonburg, but that is FAR from the norm.

Comparing voter ID laws to laws requiring that people have an ID to drive or buy beer is ridiculous. Voting is a Constitutional right. In fact, it's probably the most important Constitutional right because it is central to any functioning republic. We should be making it as easy as possible to vote in this country and it's crazy to me that anyone would suggest otherwise. Unless you have a vested interest in making sure that certain types of people don't vote. Then it makes perfect sense.

The last presidential election there was a three hour wait in line at my precinct. Many, many working people simply left without voting. So who do you think benefits from those long lines?

You're right, we should definitely require the 70 year olds checking names and addresses in those lines to also check ID's and verify that they're not fakes. One more problem solved by checking ID's...

(09-30-2016 01:24 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 01:03 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 12:55 PM)Potomac Wrote:  So since someone can't buy beer or drive, they can't vote? That's an asinine argument but a typical one attempting to down play the situation.

Requiring voters to obtain an ID in order to vote is tantamount to a poll tax. Although some states issue IDs for free, the birth certificates, passports, or other documents required to obtain a government-issued ID cost money, and many Americans simply cannot afford to pay for them.

It's a constitutional right. Drinking alcohol and driving a motor vehicle are not. The number of cases of in-person voter fraud are so insignificant they couldn't possibly have any effect on an election.

Seriously --- The line of thinking screams ---- I am a victim and willing to take ZERO responsibility for myself.

Just checked the DMV site. Getting an ID costs $10. I repeat $10. Forget about voting everyone should have some form of picture ID anyway. Seems like to me it would be pretty dang hard to function in our society without a picture ID.

You know what else is a constitutional right. The right to bear arms....but that does not mean you get one for free somewhere. You have the right the bear arms/own a gun but if you want one you will need to buy it. Which will cost far more than $10 for a picture ID.

You didn't get the government coupon to get your free AR-15?

Nice rebuttal, but I'm sure you'll get the "Apples and Oranges" comment coming shortly.

But you will need a state ID in order to fill out the FEDERAL FORM #4473 in order to purchase the "scary black weapon of war"....!

(09-30-2016 01:28 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  I've often wondered what there is to prevent a convicted felon (or anyone for that matter) from walking up to my polling place and using my name, address, and casting a vote as me before I get there? They would then have me checked off as already voted and not allow me to vote.

I suppose if you're in a state without an ID law, someone could do that and if you then showed up and they said, "ugh sir you've already voted today", it will definitely be a case of fraud. You should certainly report it to the state board of elections I would say.
What would be required on the part of the fraudulent voter is they know your full name, your address, your voting precinct, and show up early enough to make sure they get there before you do. That's a whole lot of work for one fraudulent vote. Additionally the poll workers must really not be paying attention if they have multiple people showing up multiple times throughout a day.
It certainly won't make a bit of difference in the outcome to justify the effort. I guess millions of americans could be simultaneously doing this everywhere and there's some mass cover up at thousands of precincts across america that the media has never picked up on. That's really starting to put together a crazy conspiracy theory though.
One of our candidates did say that our system is rigged though, so maybe he's right.

(09-30-2016 01:32 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 01:27 PM)jmu14 Wrote:  Voter ID laws (and other laws that attempt to place restrictions on how people can vote) are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Widespread voter fraud just doesn't happen. Sure, there are isolated instances like what happened in Harrisonburg, but that is FAR from the norm.

Comparing voter ID laws to laws requiring that people have an ID to drive or buy beer is ridiculous. Voting is a Constitutional right. In fact, it's probably the most important Constitutional right because it is central to any functioning republic. We should be making it as easy as possible to vote in this country and it's crazy to me that anyone would suggest otherwise. Unless you have a vested interest in making sure that certain types of people don't vote. Then it makes perfect sense.

The last presidential election there was a three hour wait in line at my precinct. Many, many working people simply left without voting. So who do you think benefits from those long lines?

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Low turnout generally favors Republicans. The less people that vote the better, because older white people almost always vote. When fewer people vote overall, that voting bloc is a larger percentage of the total vote. It is in the best interest for Republican lawmakers to try and pass restrictive voter ID laws because it helps bring the vote totals down (especially among young people and minorities). Wisconsin and North Carolina are two examples of Republican legislatures trying to pass restrictive voter ID laws because their states might go blue. Suppressing the vote is 100% in line with their political interests.

(09-30-2016 01:39 PM)jmu14 Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 01:32 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 01:27 PM)jmu14 Wrote:  Voter ID laws (and other laws that attempt to place restrictions on how people can vote) are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Widespread voter fraud just doesn't happen. Sure, there are isolated instances like what happened in Harrisonburg, but that is FAR from the norm.

Comparing voter ID laws to laws requiring that people have an ID to drive or buy beer is ridiculous. Voting is a Constitutional right. In fact, it's probably the most important Constitutional right because it is central to any functioning republic. We should be making it as easy as possible to vote in this country and it's crazy to me that anyone would suggest otherwise. Unless you have a vested interest in making sure that certain types of people don't vote. Then it makes perfect sense.

The last presidential election there was a three hour wait in line at my precinct. Many, many working people simply left without voting. So who do you think benefits from those long lines?

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Low turnout generally favors Republicans. The less people that vote the better, because older white people almost always vote. When fewer people vote overall, that voting bloc is a larger percentage of the total vote. It is in the best interest for Republican lawmakers to try and pass restrictive voter ID laws because it helps bring the vote totals down (especially among young people and minorities). Wisconsin and North Carolina are two examples of Republican legislatures trying to pass restrictive voter ID laws because their states might go blue. Suppressing the vote is 100% in line with their political interests.

You still have not answered the question that your first comment in this topic begged, and I asked, which was:

How do you assure that someone is a living U.S. citizen on election day without some form of ID?

(09-30-2016 01:39 PM)jmu14 Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 01:32 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 01:27 PM)jmu14 Wrote:  Voter ID laws (and other laws that attempt to place restrictions on how people can vote) are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Widespread voter fraud just doesn't happen. Sure, there are isolated instances like what happened in Harrisonburg, but that is FAR from the norm.

Comparing voter ID laws to laws requiring that people have an ID to drive or buy beer is ridiculous. Voting is a Constitutional right. In fact, it's probably the most important Constitutional right because it is central to any functioning republic. We should be making it as easy as possible to vote in this country and it's crazy to me that anyone would suggest otherwise. Unless you have a vested interest in making sure that certain types of people don't vote. Then it makes perfect sense.

The last presidential election there was a three hour wait in line at my precinct. Many, many working people simply left without voting. So who do you think benefits from those long lines?

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Low turnout generally favors Republicans. The less people that vote the better, because older white people almost always vote. When fewer people vote overall, that voting bloc is a larger percentage of the total vote. It is in the best interest for Republican lawmakers to try and pass restrictive voter ID laws because it helps bring the vote totals down (especially among young people and minorities). Wisconsin and North Carolina are two examples of Republican legislatures trying to pass restrictive voter ID laws because their states might go blue. Suppressing the vote is 100% in line with their political interests.

So, when there is a three hour wait, you call that a low turnout. hmmmmm!

(09-30-2016 01:18 PM)South Carolina Duke Wrote:  Don't these people need an ID to cash government assistance checks, board an airplane, cruise ship, get a prescription filled, or purchase a firearm ....::?

Carry on ..:

Do you need some form of ID to enroll your kids in school?

'71 now you've done it.. asking for logic to be considered. Really?

Yes ETC you do need proof of residence. So that's some sort of
I D verifier.

SCD Jr needs an ID to play Travel Baseball. Or Little League Tournament ball?

(09-30-2016 01:51 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 01:39 PM)jmu14 Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 01:32 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 01:27 PM)jmu14 Wrote:  Voter ID laws (and other laws that attempt to place restrictions on how people can vote) are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Widespread voter fraud just doesn't happen. Sure, there are isolated instances like what happened in Harrisonburg, but that is FAR from the norm.

Comparing voter ID laws to laws requiring that people have an ID to drive or buy beer is ridiculous. Voting is a Constitutional right. In fact, it's probably the most important Constitutional right because it is central to any functioning republic. We should be making it as easy as possible to vote in this country and it's crazy to me that anyone would suggest otherwise. Unless you have a vested interest in making sure that certain types of people don't vote. Then it makes perfect sense.

The last presidential election there was a three hour wait in line at my precinct. Many, many working people simply left without voting. So who do you think benefits from those long lines?

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Low turnout generally favors Republicans. The less people that vote the better, because older white people almost always vote. When fewer people vote overall, that voting bloc is a larger percentage of the total vote. It is in the best interest for Republican lawmakers to try and pass restrictive voter ID laws because it helps bring the vote totals down (especially among young people and minorities). Wisconsin and North Carolina are two examples of Republican legislatures trying to pass restrictive voter ID laws because their states might go blue. Suppressing the vote is 100% in line with their political interests.

So, when there is a three hour wait, you call that a low turnout. hmmmmm!

You said yourself that the long lines were causing people to leave without voting. That means that turnout was lower than it would have been without the lines. That's the point: they want to muck up the process enough that people who aren't as likely to vote (young people, poor people, etc.) don't feel like taking the time to vote. Both parties do this, but Republicans have been pretty brazen in their efforts to disenfranchise people. It's sad because we should all be actively fighting for everyone to vote. It's a fundamental right in this country and some people are working tirelessly to make sure that certain people can't participate because they're scared of some "voter fraud" boogeyman.

(09-30-2016 01:49 PM)JMU_71 Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 01:39 PM)jmu14 Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 01:32 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 01:27 PM)jmu14 Wrote:  Voter ID laws (and other laws that attempt to place restrictions on how people can vote) are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Widespread voter fraud just doesn't happen. Sure, there are isolated instances like what happened in Harrisonburg, but that is FAR from the norm.

Comparing voter ID laws to laws requiring that people have an ID to drive or buy beer is ridiculous. Voting is a Constitutional right. In fact, it's probably the most important Constitutional right because it is central to any functioning republic. We should be making it as easy as possible to vote in this country and it's crazy to me that anyone would suggest otherwise. Unless you have a vested interest in making sure that certain types of people don't vote. Then it makes perfect sense.

The last presidential election there was a three hour wait in line at my precinct. Many, many working people simply left without voting. So who do you think benefits from those long lines?

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Low turnout generally favors Republicans. The less people that vote the better, because older white people almost always vote. When fewer people vote overall, that voting bloc is a larger percentage of the total vote. It is in the best interest for Republican lawmakers to try and pass restrictive voter ID laws because it helps bring the vote totals down (especially among young people and minorities). Wisconsin and North Carolina are two examples of Republican legislatures trying to pass restrictive voter ID laws because their states might go blue. Suppressing the vote is 100% in line with their political interests.

You still have not answered the question that your first comment in this topic begged, and I asked, which was:

How do you assure that someone is a living U.S. citizen on election day without some form of ID?

Because that individual would have had to register to vote in a certain precinct prior to election day. That is the process that assures someone is a citizen. Then that person shows up, is checked against the list for that specific precinct and is cleared to vote. The "problem" of people showing up to vote and stealing people's names is just not real. It doesn't happen. Especially not to any level where we need to start passing sweeping laws that negatively affect FAR more people than the law would actually help.

(09-30-2016 01:51 PM)JMUETC Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 01:18 PM)South Carolina Duke Wrote:  Don't these people need an ID to cash government assistance checks, board an airplane, cruise ship, get a prescription filled, or purchase a firearm ....::?

Carry on ..:

Do you need some form of ID to enroll your kids in school?

Yes you do, at the bare minimum you need to provide in VA anyway an Power/Electric Bill to verify address and school to attend.

(09-30-2016 01:03 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 12:55 PM)Potomac Wrote:  So since someone can't buy beer or drive, they can't vote? That's an asinine argument but a typical one attempting to down play the situation.

Requiring voters to obtain an ID in order to vote is tantamount to a poll tax. Although some states issue IDs for free, the birth certificates, passports, or other documents required to obtain a government-issued ID cost money, and many Americans simply cannot afford to pay for them.

It's a constitutional right. Drinking alcohol and driving a motor vehicle are not. The number of cases of in-person voter fraud are so insignificant they couldn't possibly have any effect on an election.

Seriously --- The line of thinking screams ---- I am a victim and willing to take ZERO responsibility for myself.

Just checked the DMV site. Getting an ID costs $10. I repeat $10. Forget about voting everyone should have some form of picture ID anyway. Seems like to me it would be pretty dang hard to function in our society without a picture ID.

You know what else is a constitutional right. The right to bear arms....but that does not mean you get one for free somewhere. You have the right the bear arms/own a gun but if you want one you will need to buy it. Which will cost far more than $10 for a picture ID.

In addition, this is not an ID that has to be purchased annually, depending on the state, NC they are good for 8 years. You are paying somewhere between one or two bucks annually.