(11-25-2016 01:33 AM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(11-25-2016 12:23 AM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 11:48 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 11:18 PM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 11:08 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  No one "knows". Scientists are often wrong. Even when they "know" something.
Want "proof"?
We don't know

Of course science is sometimes wrong. That's the beauty of the scientific method. It goes where the evidence leads. When new evidence suggests a different truth, it changes its mind.

Science never makes claims of absolute truth. It only claims truths that are supported by a preponderance of evidence. It works in the long run because it lets the evidence lead to the truth.

Religion, OTOH, makes initial claims and rejects evidence that doesn't support the claim while accepting the evidence that does. That process is disingenuous at best.

You are absolutely right. But you fail to understand faith. Even people who are not religious by the common definition look for meaning in life. Some worship 'Mother Earth' for goodness sake. Many things cannot be explained by physical science. You can choose your own path and that is is beautiful thing about this existence. No need to call people who choose to believe in religion ignorant or stupid. Many of the very scientists you undoubtedly consider geniuses believe in a 'divine hand'. I remember one geneticist saying the odds were greater that a tornado plowing through a junkyard would assemble a fully functional 747 jet than DNA simply being formed from chemicals boiling around in some primordial soup. The facts if you want to believe them is that we simply do not know and since science tells us we can't go back in time we will never 'KNOW'.

I understand faith to be believing without corroborating evidence. I try to avoid that.

I don't recall stating that religious people were ignorant or stupid. I said they were irrational on that particular subject.

You are right that many things can't be explained. So why do you attempt to explain it with "God did it"? Instead, just say "I don't know". That's what science does.

So you put your faith in science. You to worship something. Many including the likes of Elon Musk believe with some certainty that we are living in a hologram. Your scientists are developing experimental equipment and theoretical experiments to test that theory in the near future. So I ask you, if they are right, who created this hologram? There are also theoretical physicists that say soon there will more sentient beings living in computer simulations than humans living in 'our world'. And these beings will have no knowledge of us. Who do you think they will worship?

I don't have faith in science. I have confidence in the scientific method because history has borne it out. Scientific models like the Theory of Gravity, the Theory of Evolution and Germ Theory make accurate predictions about nature and they do so much more accurately than anything else.

I would hope those simulated sentient beings would worship nothing and only hold rational beliefs, whatever they may be. Until they were to find evidence of us, it would be rational for them to believe only what they could prove.

As an atheist, I simply reject the claim that there is a god. I also reject the claim that there is no god. I do so because neither claim has been supported by empirical evidence. While I know that one of the claims must be true, it is irrational to believe either until it is supported by empirical evidence.

(11-25-2016 02:46 AM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(11-25-2016 01:33 AM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(11-25-2016 12:23 AM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 11:48 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 11:18 PM)Funslinger Wrote:  Of course science is sometimes wrong. That's the beauty of the scientific method. It goes where the evidence leads. When new evidence suggests a different truth, it changes its mind.

Science never makes claims of absolute truth. It only claims truths that are supported by a preponderance of evidence. It works in the long run because it lets the evidence lead to the truth.

Religion, OTOH, makes initial claims and rejects evidence that doesn't support the claim while accepting the evidence that does. That process is disingenuous at best.

You are absolutely right. But you fail to understand faith. Even people who are not religious by the common definition look for meaning in life. Some worship 'Mother Earth' for goodness sake. Many things cannot be explained by physical science. You can choose your own path and that is is beautiful thing about this existence. No need to call people who choose to believe in religion ignorant or stupid. Many of the very scientists you undoubtedly consider geniuses believe in a 'divine hand'. I remember one geneticist saying the odds were greater that a tornado plowing through a junkyard would assemble a fully functional 747 jet than DNA simply being formed from chemicals boiling around in some primordial soup. The facts if you want to believe them is that we simply do not know and since science tells us we can't go back in time we will never 'KNOW'.

I understand faith to be believing without corroborating evidence. I try to avoid that.

I don't recall stating that religious people were ignorant or stupid. I said they were irrational on that particular subject.

You are right that many things can't be explained. So why do you attempt to explain it with "God did it"? Instead, just say "I don't know". That's what science does.

So you put your faith in science. You to worship something. Many including the likes of Elon Musk believe with some certainty that we are living in a hologram. Your scientists are developing experimental equipment and theoretical experiments to test that theory in the near future. So I ask you, if they are right, who created this hologram? There are also theoretical physicists that say soon there will more sentient beings living in computer simulations than humans living in 'our world'. And these beings will have no knowledge of us. Who do you think they will worship?

I don't have faith in science. I have confidence in the scientific method because history has borne it out. Scientific models like the Theory of Gravity, the Theory of Evolution and Germ Theory make accurate predictions about nature and they do so much more accurately than anything else.

I would hope those simulated sentient beings would worship nothing and only hold rational beliefs, whatever they may be. Until they were to find evidence of us, it would be rational for them to believe only what they could prove.

As an atheist, I simply reject the claim that there is a god. I also reject the claim that there is no god. I do so because neither claim has been supported by empirical evidence. While I know that one of the claims must be true, it is irrational to believe either until it is supported by empirical evidence.

You started this thread. If you are truly at peace with your atheistic beliefs, why is it that you feel the need to debate the religious? Have you read the Bible? If not, then perhaps doing so would help you find the peace that you seem to seek. I hope you do find it, one way or the other.

Sorry FlyHawk, evolution is the real deal. And Darwin is easily one of the most influential people in modern history. You are the product of evolution, and your closest living relative is the chimpanzee/bonobo.

Science deniers are one a major reason why young people like me left WV for college. It's a shame, really. Religion is a net good for society--but zealotry is not.

Probably should be an OT: at the beginning of the thread title.

I was a long time agnostic, always wondering that if there was no creator or designer behind the existence of matter and life, how did the existence of matter come to be? If there is nothing but a void, somehow matter has to come into being before there can be a big bang or a bang of any proportion.

A creator or designer could create matter, life and evolution too, if that being so desired. But how then did that being come into existence?

My head hurts so I'm going to take a nap. Just be civil to one another. No one is changing their mind on this issue on a sports message board.

I feel sorry for those who believe in the Charles Darwin theory (Evolution) and/or the Big Bang theory!

(11-25-2016 12:23 AM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 11:48 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 11:18 PM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 11:08 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  No one "knows". Scientists are often wrong. Even when they "know" something.
Want "proof"?
We don't know

Of course science is sometimes wrong. That's the beauty of the scientific method. It goes where the evidence leads. When new evidence suggests a different truth, it changes its mind.

Science never makes claims of absolute truth. It only claims truths that are supported by a preponderance of evidence. It works in the long run because it lets the evidence lead to the truth.

Religion, OTOH, makes initial claims and rejects evidence that doesn't support the claim while accepting the evidence that does. That process is disingenuous at best.

You are absolutely right. But you fail to understand faith. Even people who are not religious by the common definition look for meaning in life. Some worship 'Mother Earth' for goodness sake. Many things cannot be explained by physical science. You can choose your own path and that is is beautiful thing about this existence. No need to call people who choose to believe in religion ignorant or stupid. Many of the very scientists you undoubtedly consider geniuses believe in a 'divine hand'. I remember one geneticist saying the odds were greater that a tornado plowing through a junkyard would assemble a fully functional 747 jet than DNA simply being formed from chemicals boiling around in some primordial soup. The facts if you want to believe them is that we simply do not know and since science tells us we can't go back in time we will never 'KNOW'.

I understand faith to be believing without corroborating evidence. I try to avoid that.

I don't recall stating that religious people were ignorant or stupid. I said they were irrational on that particular subject.

You are right that many things can't be explained. So why do you attempt to explain it with "God did it"? Instead, just say "I don't know". That's what science does.

Except plenty of scientists have conducted research as a way to examine God's handwork. It is not an absence of belief.

(11-24-2016 10:42 PM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 10:29 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  There is nothing to feel guilty about.

A woman posted on facebook that she needed a life-saving surgery in a clinic on the other side of the country. She said that she had no way to get to the clinic as she was out of money and had no means of transportation.

After a week of "I'll pray for you" platitudes, an atheist friend posted that she'd buy her a plane ticket. Then the flood gates open on the "Praise God" platitudes.

:facepalm:

Two hands at work accomplish more than millions clasped in prayer.

That is not guilt. It is not even close.

If anything, I could say God works through everyone.

(11-25-2016 05:18 AM)BRtransplant Wrote:  

(11-25-2016 02:46 AM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(11-25-2016 01:33 AM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(11-25-2016 12:23 AM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 11:48 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  You are absolutely right. But you fail to understand faith. Even people who are not religious by the common definition look for meaning in life. Some worship 'Mother Earth' for goodness sake. Many things cannot be explained by physical science. You can choose your own path and that is is beautiful thing about this existence. No need to call people who choose to believe in religion ignorant or stupid. Many of the very scientists you undoubtedly consider geniuses believe in a 'divine hand'. I remember one geneticist saying the odds were greater that a tornado plowing through a junkyard would assemble a fully functional 747 jet than DNA simply being formed from chemicals boiling around in some primordial soup. The facts if you want to believe them is that we simply do not know and since science tells us we can't go back in time we will never 'KNOW'.

I understand faith to be believing without corroborating evidence. I try to avoid that.

I don't recall stating that religious people were ignorant or stupid. I said they were irrational on that particular subject.

You are right that many things can't be explained. So why do you attempt to explain it with "God did it"? Instead, just say "I don't know". That's what science does.

So you put your faith in science. You to worship something. Many including the likes of Elon Musk believe with some certainty that we are living in a hologram. Your scientists are developing experimental equipment and theoretical experiments to test that theory in the near future. So I ask you, if they are right, who created this hologram? There are also theoretical physicists that say soon there will more sentient beings living in computer simulations than humans living in 'our world'. And these beings will have no knowledge of us. Who do you think they will worship?

I don't have faith in science. I have confidence in the scientific method because history has borne it out. Scientific models like the Theory of Gravity, the Theory of Evolution and Germ Theory make accurate predictions about nature and they do so much more accurately than anything else.

I would hope those simulated sentient beings would worship nothing and only hold rational beliefs, whatever they may be. Until they were to find evidence of us, it would be rational for them to believe only what they could prove.

As an atheist, I simply reject the claim that there is a god. I also reject the claim that there is no god. I do so because neither claim has been supported by empirical evidence. While I know that one of the claims must be true, it is irrational to believe either until it is supported by empirical evidence.

You started this thread. If you are truly at peace with your atheistic beliefs, why is it that you feel the need to debate the religious? Have you read the Bible? If not, then perhaps doing so would help you find the peace that you seem to seek. I hope you do find it, one way or the other.

Angry atheist. That is why.

(11-25-2016 12:23 AM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 11:48 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 11:18 PM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 11:08 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  No one "knows". Scientists are often wrong. Even when they "know" something.
Want "proof"?
We don't know

Of course science is sometimes wrong. That's the beauty of the scientific method. It goes where the evidence leads. When new evidence suggests a different truth, it changes its mind.

Science never makes claims of absolute truth. It only claims truths that are supported by a preponderance of evidence. It works in the long run because it lets the evidence lead to the truth.

Religion, OTOH, makes initial claims and rejects evidence that doesn't support the claim while accepting the evidence that does. That process is disingenuous at best.

You are absolutely right. But you fail to understand faith. Even people who are not religious by the common definition look for meaning in life. Some worship 'Mother Earth' for goodness sake. Many things cannot be explained by physical science. You can choose your own path and that is is beautiful thing about this existence. No need to call people who choose to believe in religion ignorant or stupid. Many of the very scientists you undoubtedly consider geniuses believe in a 'divine hand'. I remember one geneticist saying the odds were greater that a tornado plowing through a junkyard would assemble a fully functional 747 jet than DNA simply being formed from chemicals boiling around in some primordial soup. The facts if you want to believe them is that we simply do not know and since science tells us we can't go back in time we will never 'KNOW'.

I understand faith to be believing without corroborating evidence. I try to avoid that.

I don't recall stating that religious people were ignorant or stupid. I said they were irrational on that particular subject.

You are right that many things can't be explained. So why do you attempt to explain it with "God did it"? Instead, just say "I don't know". That's what science does.

Faith is the climax of logic and reason.

(11-25-2016 08:45 AM)Jayesseagle Wrote:  I feel sorry for those who believe in the Charles Darwin theory (Evolution) and/or the Big Bang theory!

Me too. Seems desperate to have faith in that lunacy.

Higgs-Boson; The 'God' particularly. So named by the scientists looking for it.
Man made global warming. Also named by the scientists looking for it. One is science, the other is fabricated to gain wealth.
Science can be corrupted. Men can be corrupted. Some times we see what we want to see and disregard the truth. Who knows how God created man. He could have done it by means of evolution. I don't know. Neither does any scientists. But I have one question for you FS and it is a serious one; why didn't all chimpanzees-banobos become human?

(11-25-2016 02:46 AM)Funslinger Wrote:  As an atheist, I simply reject the claim that there is a god. I also reject the claim that there is no god. I do so because neither claim has been supported by empirical evidence. While I know that one of the claims must be true, it is irrational to believe either until it is supported by empirical evidence.

Therein lies the conundrum. The premise behind a God/Intelligent Design is that it works outside the laws of nature (supernatural). Supernatural is defined as: of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe. It can't be supported by empirical evidence because it lies beyond nature.

(11-25-2016 09:48 AM)T_Won1 Wrote:  

(11-25-2016 08:45 AM)Jayesseagle Wrote:  I feel sorry for those who believe in the Charles Darwin theory (Evolution) and/or the Big Bang theory!

Me too. Seems desperate to have faith in that lunacy.

I'll never understand why both sides need to be so condescending.

So Newtown claimed that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. So who or what was the unmoved mover?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The great thing about science is its true whether or not you believe it. Belief is not a part of the equation. Belief is what you do in the absence of science.

(11-25-2016 11:11 AM)mufan01 Wrote:  The great thing about science is its true whether or not you believe it. Belief is not a part of the equation. Belief is what you do in the absence of science.

But I don't believe that includes scientific theory. A theory is just that, not a truth.

(11-25-2016 05:18 AM)BRtransplant Wrote:  

(11-25-2016 02:46 AM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(11-25-2016 01:33 AM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(11-25-2016 12:23 AM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 11:48 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  You are absolutely right. But you fail to understand faith. Even people who are not religious by the common definition look for meaning in life. Some worship 'Mother Earth' for goodness sake. Many things cannot be explained by physical science. You can choose your own path and that is is beautiful thing about this existence. No need to call people who choose to believe in religion ignorant or stupid. Many of the very scientists you undoubtedly consider geniuses believe in a 'divine hand'. I remember one geneticist saying the odds were greater that a tornado plowing through a junkyard would assemble a fully functional 747 jet than DNA simply being formed from chemicals boiling around in some primordial soup. The facts if you want to believe them is that we simply do not know and since science tells us we can't go back in time we will never 'KNOW'.

I understand faith to be believing without corroborating evidence. I try to avoid that.

I don't recall stating that religious people were ignorant or stupid. I said they were irrational on that particular subject.

You are right that many things can't be explained. So why do you attempt to explain it with "God did it"? Instead, just say "I don't know". That's what science does.

So you put your faith in science. You to worship something. Many including the likes of Elon Musk believe with some certainty that we are living in a hologram. Your scientists are developing experimental equipment and theoretical experiments to test that theory in the near future. So I ask you, if they are right, who created this hologram? There are also theoretical physicists that say soon there will more sentient beings living in computer simulations than humans living in 'our world'. And these beings will have no knowledge of us. Who do you think they will worship?

I don't have faith in science. I have confidence in the scientific method because history has borne it out. Scientific models like the Theory of Gravity, the Theory of Evolution and Germ Theory make accurate predictions about nature and they do so much more accurately than anything else.

I would hope those simulated sentient beings would worship nothing and only hold rational beliefs, whatever they may be. Until they were to find evidence of us, it would be rational for them to believe only what they could prove.

As an atheist, I simply reject the claim that there is a god. I also reject the claim that there is no god. I do so because neither claim has been supported by empirical evidence. While I know that one of the claims must be true, it is irrational to believe either until it is supported by empirical evidence.

You started this thread. If you are truly at peace with your atheistic beliefs, why is it that you feel the need to debate the religious? Have you read the Bible? If not, then perhaps doing so would help you find the peace that you seem to seek. I hope you do find it, one way or the other.

Have YOU read the Bible? If you have and you still believe the christian god is worth worshipping then you have some warped morality.

(11-25-2016 08:45 AM)Jayesseagle Wrote:  I feel sorry for those who believe in the Charles Darwin theory (Evolution) and/or the Big Bang theory!

Yeah. It's stupid to believe in something that is supported by an extremely overwhelming body of evidence.

Do you even understand what evolution is? And I'm not talking about the inaccurate portrayal of evolution perpetuated by religious leaders. At least the Catholic church is smart enough to accept the obvious.

Even the evangelical christian scientist Francis Collins, director of the National Institutes of Health and former director of the Human Genome Project admits that evolution is a fact.

(11-25-2016 08:53 AM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 10:42 PM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 10:29 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  There is nothing to feel guilty about.

A woman posted on facebook that she needed a life-saving surgery in a clinic on the other side of the country. She said that she had no way to get to the clinic as she was out of money and had no means of transportation.

After a week of "I'll pray for you" platitudes, an atheist friend posted that she'd buy her a plane ticket. Then the flood gates open on the "Praise God" platitudes.

:facepalm:

Two hands at work accomplish more than millions clasped in prayer.

That is not guilt. It is not even close.

If anything, I could say God works through everyone.

Which god?

(11-25-2016 08:55 AM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(11-25-2016 05:18 AM)BRtransplant Wrote:  

(11-25-2016 02:46 AM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(11-25-2016 01:33 AM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(11-25-2016 12:23 AM)Funslinger Wrote:  I understand faith to be believing without corroborating evidence. I try to avoid that.

I don't recall stating that religious people were ignorant or stupid. I said they were irrational on that particular subject.

You are right that many things can't be explained. So why do you attempt to explain it with "God did it"? Instead, just say "I don't know". That's what science does.

So you put your faith in science. You to worship something. Many including the likes of Elon Musk believe with some certainty that we are living in a hologram. Your scientists are developing experimental equipment and theoretical experiments to test that theory in the near future. So I ask you, if they are right, who created this hologram? There are also theoretical physicists that say soon there will more sentient beings living in computer simulations than humans living in 'our world'. And these beings will have no knowledge of us. Who do you think they will worship?

I don't have faith in science. I have confidence in the scientific method because history has borne it out. Scientific models like the Theory of Gravity, the Theory of Evolution and Germ Theory make accurate predictions about nature and they do so much more accurately than anything else.

I would hope those simulated sentient beings would worship nothing and only hold rational beliefs, whatever they may be. Until they were to find evidence of us, it would be rational for them to believe only what they could prove.

As an atheist, I simply reject the claim that there is a god. I also reject the claim that there is no god. I do so because neither claim has been supported by empirical evidence. While I know that one of the claims must be true, it is irrational to believe either until it is supported by empirical evidence.

You started this thread. If you are truly at peace with your atheistic beliefs, why is it that you feel the need to debate the religious? Have you read the Bible? If not, then perhaps doing so would help you find the peace that you seem to seek. I hope you do find it, one way or the other.

Angry atheist. That is why.

Repeat the party line. That is what religious leaders tell you an atheist is. If atheists are all angry people, why are the most secular and least religious countries in the world the happiest, least crime-filled ones on Earth?

The Scandinavian countries are full of happy atheists.