(12-29-2016 09:37 AM)goofus Wrote:  It is an interesting question how far this idea, of playing other tournaments, can be pushed. It does not have to be just a G5 playoff but whats to stop other bowls from setting up their own mini-tourneys?

If the winners of the CFP semi-finals are allowed to play another game, then why can't, for example, the winners of the Citrus and Outback bowls play each other in a central Florida bowl tournament championship game?

I know, common sense says the winning teams and fans will just want to go home after new years, but how could anybody say it should be against the rules?

That is an interesting view.

(12-29-2016 09:27 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  If the G5 is given a high TV/media deal from one (or multiple) of ESPN, NBC, FOX, CBS, etc. for a G5 playoff, then why wouldn't they do it?

Any opportunity to get more revenue and exposure to increase value of programs should be considered. It would help those programs in the long run. Fighting the P5 on access and bowl slots is a losing proposition and a no-win scenario.

I doubt a G5 playoff would pay very much to be honest with you. I don't know the exact figures, but everything I have read indicates ESPN pays the FCS next to nothing for their playoffs; with most of their athletic department revenue coming from ticket sales, student subsidy and alumni donorship.

I think in the best case scenario the G5 playoff would earn the schools an extra couple hundred thousand; but would be offset by losses in ticket sales, sponsorship and alumni contributions (because know you are basically admitting you are FCS).

I'm reasonably sure that if the SBC, CUSA and MAC want to do this, both the P5 conferences and the remaining two G5 conferences would allow them to withdraw from the CFP contract. In effect, it would put the highest level of college football at 89 members (90 if they invite BYU to join them). That's about the right size.

I don't think the P5 would object even if the G3 wanted to stage an 8 team playoff. What isn't clear is whether the P5 would then let the AAC and MWC keep the entire payout now earmarked for the G5 and independents, or whether they would insist on splitting the shares forfeited by the G3.

But if there are only 3 of the current G5 who want to split from the CFP, how interested would any network be to stage such a playoff? I suppose they could encourage schools from the MVFC and Colonial conferences, and perhaps some far west teams, to join this group. But how excited would the schools who recently decided to move up to FBS (which is most of CUSA and SBC) be about essentially returning to the equivalent of FCS?

I think this is a case of the G3 conferences wanting to be viewed as peers of the AAC and MWC, just like those two want to be viewed as peers of the P5. For so many reasons, a G5 playoff is a dream to some of its members and a nightmare to others. It's not likely to happen.

Being a fan of an FCS team, I definitely understand the desire by some G5 to have their own playoff system. In my mind (from a purely athletic standpoint) nothing is more exciting than playoff games. Outside of the CFP games there is no bowl that i'd want my school to be part of that would replace the excitement that I have for the playoffs in FCS.

The sad thing for those schools is that it truly is just about money. They don't really care about their football team. They don't care about the student athletes and their ability to play meaningful games. They don't care about anything except the checks they get as being part of the FBS and the CFP.

People argue that if there is a separate playoff that it will appear like they are playing JV. The reality is that the casual fans already see you as JV. Only alumni or people who live in the region where the school resides even know that you exist.

(12-29-2016 10:02 AM)NDSUguy Wrote:  Being a fan of an FCS team, I definitely understand the desire by some G5 to have their own playoff system. In my mind (from a purely athletic standpoint) nothing is more exciting than playoff games. Outside of the CFP games there is no bowl that i'd want my school to be part of that would replace the excitement that I have for the playoffs in FCS.

The sad thing for those schools is that it truly is just about money. They don't really care about their football team. They don't care about the student athletes and their ability to play meaningful games. They don't care about anything except the checks they get as being part of the FBS and the CFP.

People argue that if there is a separate playoff that it will appear like they are playing JV. The reality is that the casual fans already see you as JV. Only alumni or people who live in the region where the school resides even know that you exist.

I am sorry,but that's your box don't put us in it. The population of our city is larger than your entire state. Cinci,Houston,Dallas,Phily,New Orleans,Tampa,Orlando,you see what I am gettin at.

(12-29-2016 10:24 AM)FUB Wrote:  

(12-29-2016 10:02 AM)NDSUguy Wrote:  Being a fan of an FCS team, I definitely understand the desire by some G5 to have their own playoff system. In my mind (from a purely athletic standpoint) nothing is more exciting than playoff games. Outside of the CFP games there is no bowl that i'd want my school to be part of that would replace the excitement that I have for the playoffs in FCS.

The sad thing for those schools is that it truly is just about money. They don't really care about their football team. They don't care about the student athletes and their ability to play meaningful games. They don't care about anything except the checks they get as being part of the FBS and the CFP.

People argue that if there is a separate playoff that it will appear like they are playing JV. The reality is that the casual fans already see you as JV. Only alumni or people who live in the region where the school resides even know that you exist.

I am sorry,but that's your box don't put us in it. The population of our city is larger than your entire state. Cinci,Houston,Dallas,Phily,New Orleans,Tampa,Orlando,you see what I am gettin at.

Not trying to compare your schools city, population, notoriety to my school. My point is that G5 schools are already JV. From a broader perspective, there is NO value to the perceived "prestige" that you get from being part of the FBS. It's only value is the current financial one where the G5 athletic directors trade in the athletes and fans loyalty for cash.

Nationally no one cares about ANY of the G5 schools (except for alumni and/or people from the schools city/region) for more than 3 hours on January 1st during the bowl game where the "winner" of the G5 gets to play against one of the P5 schools.

I know our AD at Arkansas State would not go for this at all. I guess it is a MAC thing.

(12-29-2016 10:31 AM)NDSUguy Wrote:  

(12-29-2016 10:24 AM)FUB Wrote:  

(12-29-2016 10:02 AM)NDSUguy Wrote:  Being a fan of an FCS team, I definitely understand the desire by some G5 to have their own playoff system. In my mind (from a purely athletic standpoint) nothing is more exciting than playoff games. Outside of the CFP games there is no bowl that i'd want my school to be part of that would replace the excitement that I have for the playoffs in FCS.

The sad thing for those schools is that it truly is just about money. They don't really care about their football team. They don't care about the student athletes and their ability to play meaningful games. They don't care about anything except the checks they get as being part of the FBS and the CFP.

People argue that if there is a separate playoff that it will appear like they are playing JV. The reality is that the casual fans already see you as JV. Only alumni or people who live in the region where the school resides even know that you exist.

I am sorry,but that's your box don't put us in it. The population of our city is larger than your entire state. Cinci,Houston,Dallas,Phily,New Orleans,Tampa,Orlando,you see what I am gettin at.

Not trying to compare your schools city, population, notoriety to my school. My point is that G5 schools are already JV. From a broader perspective, there is NO value to the perceived "prestige" that you get from being part of the FBS. It's only value is the current financial one where the G5 athletic directors trade in the athletes and fans loyalty for cash.

Nationally no one cares about ANY of the G5 schools (except for alumni and/or people from the schools city/region) for more than 3 hours on January 1st during the bowl game where the "winner" of the G5 gets to play against one of the P5 schools.

Playing Devil's Advocate, nationally people only have interest in about 10-15 schools tops outside of their own. The other schools are Notre Dame, Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan, maybe 1-2 more plus schools in their teams conference.

(12-29-2016 10:36 AM)Crump1 Wrote:  I know our AD at Arkansas State would not go for this at all. I guess it is a MAC thing.

Why? what else besides money from CFP does Arkansas State get from being FBS?

What would they being playing for? Do they want to create a division between FBS and FCS?

(12-29-2016 10:37 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(12-29-2016 10:31 AM)NDSUguy Wrote:  

(12-29-2016 10:24 AM)FUB Wrote:  

(12-29-2016 10:02 AM)NDSUguy Wrote:  Being a fan of an FCS team, I definitely understand the desire by some G5 to have their own playoff system. In my mind (from a purely athletic standpoint) nothing is more exciting than playoff games. Outside of the CFP games there is no bowl that i'd want my school to be part of that would replace the excitement that I have for the playoffs in FCS.

The sad thing for those schools is that it truly is just about money. They don't really care about their football team. They don't care about the student athletes and their ability to play meaningful games. They don't care about anything except the checks they get as being part of the FBS and the CFP.

People argue that if there is a separate playoff that it will appear like they are playing JV. The reality is that the casual fans already see you as JV. Only alumni or people who live in the region where the school resides even know that you exist.

I am sorry,but that's your box don't put us in it. The population of our city is larger than your entire state. Cinci,Houston,Dallas,Phily,New Orleans,Tampa,Orlando,you see what I am gettin at.

Not trying to compare your schools city, population, notoriety to my school. My point is that G5 schools are already JV. From a broader perspective, there is NO value to the perceived "prestige" that you get from being part of the FBS. It's only value is the current financial one where the G5 athletic directors trade in the athletes and fans loyalty for cash.

Nationally no one cares about ANY of the G5 schools (except for alumni and/or people from the schools city/region) for more than 3 hours on January 1st during the bowl game where the "winner" of the G5 gets to play against one of the P5 schools.

Playing Devil's Advocate, nationally people only have interest in about 10-15 schools tops outside of their own. The other schools are Notre Dame, Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan, maybe 1-2 more plus schools in their teams conference.

That's totally true. Generally speaking those 10-15 teams will ALWAYS win the CFP. Since that is the case what is the point of the other schools (especially the G5) in being in a system where no matter what they do they will NOT win.

Essentially the goal of the season is only to win your conference. That's it. No more no less. That is the primary reason why G5 should look to separate or have their own playoff system. At least it would give them something to aspire to. Something to play for.

(12-29-2016 10:40 AM)solohawks Wrote:  What would they being playing for? Do they want to create a division between FBS and FCS?

what do they play for now? Just a conference championship. That's it.

(12-29-2016 10:42 AM)NDSUguy Wrote:  

(12-29-2016 10:40 AM)solohawks Wrote:  What would they being playing for? Do they want to create a division between FBS and FCS?

what do they play for now? Just a conference championship. That's it.

They play for the access slot for one. And if a team like this years Houston or Boise can ever run the table they would be in consideration for the real playoff.

Do they really want to codify the separation?

Well....as some have mentioned above, if they want a playoff, they should join the FCS ranks. It would beef up the FCS playoffs quite a bit.

It may do pretty and my first point of reference is the Dollar General Bowl which matches the two best teams from the Sunbelt and MAC. It has done pretty well for those conferences being that it is played just before Christmas. TV viewership this was 2.5 million and attendance was just short of 33k.

FCS would be able to get a better TV contract from some network with quite a few of these G5 teams with larger fanbases than the majority of the current FCS teams.

(12-29-2016 09:37 AM)goofus Wrote:  ...If the winners of the CFP semi-finals are allowed to play another game, then why can't, for example, the winners of the Citrus and Outback bowls play each other in a central Florida bowl tournament championship game?...

You can't compare the CFP to the bowls. No team is allowed to play a second bowl game. No team is allowed to play in a bowl and the CFP. Playing a 2nd bowl game is a defacto playoff system and requires approval by the entire NCAA.

It would also be financial suicide. This year the G5 will make ~106 million from football post-season. ~23 million from bowl games and ~83 million directly from the CFP (APR incentives and direct payments). If you pull the top 4 G5 teams out you could lose up to half of the bowl money but you would lose all of the CFP money. You would go from ~106 million to 30-35 million. That would be a devastating hit for all but the top G5 programs.

If a separate playoff is what they want, they can join the FCS.

They could create a 40 team AAC conference with 4 divisions of ten. Than have a 2 game playoff among the conference winners with the second game in a rotated bowl, first game would be like conference title games. Need a rule change so each 10 team division can act as a solo conference with their own hoop tourney.

The G5's only focus right now should be ensuring an auto bid in the inevitable 8 team playoff, and two in the possible eventual 16 team playoff.

How about this compromise:

Create a G5 playoff, but make it optional. Each year the G5 school would have a choice of accepting a bowl invite or declining the bowl invite and participating in a G5 playoff. That way every G5 school is happy, regardless of preference.

For example, Western Michigan could choose whether they want to accept the invite to the Cotton Bowl to face BIG Wisconsin, or if they would like to be the #1 seed in an eight team G5 playoff. If they choose the Cotton bowl, then the G5 playoff fills in the with next highest ranked G5 and everyone in the playoff gets bumped up a seed. If they choose the G5 playoff, then the Cotton Bowl fills in an At-Large from the P6.

I would be willing to bet that WMU would much rather play in the Cotton Bowl than a G5 playoff