If so, is it better than losing in the Round of 32? You can't say you played in the Big Dance, but instead you'd benefit from having a few more weeks of practices, the opportunity to play two games in Madison Square Garden, and you'd have a couple of ESPN games whereas you may be stuck on TruTV for the first weekend of the tourney. I don't think anyone would argue that being NIT champ is superior to making the Sweet 16.

Similarly, is it better to be CBI/CIT champion than making the NIT second round or quarterfinals? Or even losing one of the First Four games in Dayton?

I think it depends on the program. Some schools rally behind a deep NIT run while others ignore it because they expect to be in the NCAA's every year.

Like the question would be-
would you rather be-
Wake Forest- who lost in first 4
or
Georgia Tech- in the final tonight

Providence fan here.
Absolutely would take our loss to Southern Cal in Dayton than win the NIT.
No question in my mind.

(03-30-2017 01:23 PM)billyjack Wrote:  Providence fan here.

Much rather take our loss to Southern Cal in Dayton than win the NIT.
No question in my mind.

And I will take our loss to USC in the first round

No. Making the NCAA is always better.

I'd rather lose in the first round of the tournament than win the NIT.

55% of the NIT champions since NCAA expanded to 64 have gone on to make the NCAA the following year. We've seen some recent examples- Wichita, SMU to just name 2.

I really think it's the composition of your team. If you have a young up and coming team, getting the extra 2+ weeks of practice and game experience is just huge. If you have an experienced team- NIT is pretty much meaningless.

(03-30-2017 01:42 PM)stever20 Wrote:  55% of the NIT champions since NCAA expanded to 64 have gone on to make the NCAA the following year. We've seen some recent examples- Wichita, SMU to just name 2.

I really think it's the composition of your team. If you have a young up and coming team, getting the extra 2+ weeks of practice and game experience is just huge. If you have an experienced team- NIT is pretty much meaningless.

This.

(03-30-2017 12:38 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  If so, is it better than losing in the Round of 32? You can't say you played in the Big Dance, but instead you'd benefit from having a few more weeks of practices, the opportunity to play two games in Madison Square Garden, and you'd have a couple of ESPN games whereas you may be stuck on TruTV for the first weekend of the tourney. I don't think anyone would argue that being NIT champ is superior to making the Sweet 16.

Similarly, is it better to be CBI/CIT champion than making the NIT second round or quarterfinals? Or even losing one of the First Four games in Dayton?

No. Absolutely not. Being the last team into the NCAA Tournament and losing immediately in the First Four still trumps being the NIT Champ. A recruit will absolutely put more weight on a First Four appearance than an NIT Final Four appearance. Virtually no one watches or pays attention to NIT games outside of the fans of the teams that are playing (and even then it's pretty tepid interest).

the money-ncaa
prestige-ncaa
what people remember-ncaa
last 3 wks of march-nit champ

Having done both, much better to win the NIT. The pressure is off and it just fun to watch. I have enjoyed NIT runs as much as Sweet 16s as crazy as that sounds (not that I wouldnt take the Sweet 16 over it, but the NIT is fun if you go into it with the right mindset).

No one cares about the NIT unless you're in it. I at least remember some First Four games such as BYU and Iona. Who won the last NIT title? 2 years before that and the year before? I rest my case.

I would say the NIT is a good tournament for the majors, and upper mid majors that want to be there. The Cal Bears, Indiana Hoosiers, and probably the Houston Cougars were not very motivated and quickly bounced (ditto 5 or 6 others). So-so motivated schools like Illinois, and Syracuse got but further, but just didn;t have the desire for a deep run. But those that really wanted to be there like UCF, TCU, and Georgia Tech, it was an excellent opportunity and they seized it (CSUB as well). Also most of these schools get to host a game, which makes it a profit center, or at least a break even proposition.

There needs to be a tourney for these also ran schools (13 major, 8 upper mid major), and this works. Some are building for next year (Georgia Tech), others the end a disappointing run (Cal Bears. players leaving, coach already out the door, just not announced), others just saving face (Indiana, Syracuse). An Auburn or Ohio State might have been a better invite since they were hungrier, but as Bruce Pearl said, they didn't earn it. That alone says it has value.

Where the NIT is definitely a better one to be invited to than the NCAA is for the lower mid majors. Those bottom 20 single bid conferences, seeds 48,50-68 this year. As a group they went 0-18 in the 1st round. In the NIT the 9 AQ and two at-large from these conferences went 5-6 in round 1, 2-3 in round 2, and 1-1 in round 3. So either you want a first four or an NIT from a competitive basketball standpoint. Of course the Al McGuire rule is in place, so you cannot turn down an NCAA bid (it's compulsory) for the NIT.

My argument all along has been that the days of the lower mid majors deep runs are over. The odds of one of these getting to the first weekend are under 10%, and to the sweet 16 maybe 1% - to get past round 3 like CSUB in the NIT the odds are maybe 0.1% (once in 50 years if you multiply by 20 conferences). The media are grasping to try and frame Wichita State and Gonzaga as the same category as Winthrop and Northern Kentucky to claim the dream is still there. IMO it will take 3 or 4 more years of these 0-18, 1-17 1st rounds for the concept of spinning off to get any traction.

(03-30-2017 12:38 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  If so, is it better than losing in the Round of 32? You can't say you played in the Big Dance, but instead you'd benefit from having a few more weeks of practices, the opportunity to play two games in Madison Square Garden, and you'd have a couple of ESPN games whereas you may be stuck on TruTV for the first weekend of the tourney. I don't think anyone would argue that being NIT champ is superior to making the Sweet 16.

Similarly, is it better to be CBI/CIT champion than making the NIT second round or quarterfinals? Or even losing one of the First Four games in Dayton?

As a fan/alumni of the school that won the NIT last year, I will say this.

1) It was a lot of fun.
2) I'd rather make it to the round of 32 than win it.

And that's from a school that has a ton of NYC area alumni too.

(03-30-2017 12:38 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  If so, is it better than losing in the Round of 32? You can't say you played in the Big Dance, but instead you'd benefit from having a few more weeks of practices, the opportunity to play two games in Madison Square Garden, and you'd have a couple of ESPN games whereas you may be stuck on TruTV for the first weekend of the tourney. I don't think anyone would argue that being NIT champ is superior to making the Sweet 16.

Similarly, is it better to be CBI/CIT champion than making the NIT second round or quarterfinals? Or even losing one of the First Four games in Dayton?

Being No. 68 is better than being No. 69 (NIT champion).

(03-30-2017 07:26 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(03-30-2017 12:38 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  If so, is it better than losing in the Round of 32? You can't say you played in the Big Dance, but instead you'd benefit from having a few more weeks of practices, the opportunity to play two games in Madison Square Garden, and you'd have a couple of ESPN games whereas you may be stuck on TruTV for the first weekend of the tourney. I don't think anyone would argue that being NIT champ is superior to making the Sweet 16.

Similarly, is it better to be CBI/CIT champion than making the NIT second round or quarterfinals? Or even losing one of the First Four games in Dayton?

Being No. 68 is better than being No. 69 (NIT champion).

I wouldn't agree with that. I think WINNING the NIT is better than losing in the first four. You get more exposure winning the NIT than you do losing in Dayton as a 11/12 seed on Tuesday.

NCAA. Of course

(03-30-2017 04:45 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  No one cares about the NIT unless you're in it. Who won the last NIT title? 2 years before that and the year before? I rest my case.

Well,

Having witness 2 NIT championships for Tulsa

In 1981, Nolan Richardson’s 1st yr.
Tulsa went from an 8 game winner the yr B4
to a 21 game winner (tied 2nd in MVC)
Many home games were sold out that yr.
Mojo was HUGE

In ’81 NCAA invited only 48 teams
Bobby Knight’s Hoosier's beat them Tar Heels in the finals
The MVC sent 2 teams to the NCAA
Creighton & Wichita St (lost Elite 8 & beat Kansas in Sweet 16)

NIT field consisted of many “Named” teams
Duke, Georgia, Bama, Michigan, Marquette,
NIT Final 4
Tulsa vs West Virginia
& Purdue vs. Syracuse
Tulsa beat Syracuse in the finals
(literally a home game 4 the ‘Cuse)

Local fans went Berzerk,
it was momentum changer 4 the program

Then in 2001
coming off an Elite 8 appearance in the NCAA
& Losing coach Bill Self (Illinois)
21-7 record in WAC (10-6),
Most fans disappointed no NCAA bid

NCAA fielded 64 teams

In the NIT
Tulsa hosted UC Irvine 1st rd
“Lite” attendance, low interest
Tulsa plays next 2 games on road
gut check wins @ Minnesota & @ Miss St
Tulsa beats former MVC rival, Memphis in the semi’s
& Bama in the finals

Fans felt a sense of justice after being slighted by NCAA
1st yr coach Buzz Peterson splits to Tennessee after season
Fan enthusiasm never reached Mojo Level of 1st NIT win

After both NIT titles
Tulsa reached the NCAA’s the next yr.

IMHO
If ur an up & comer, trying to make a “mark” 4 ur program
NIT championship is better than a 1st rd NCAA loss

But once u’ve been accustomed to being in the Big Dance
Any NIT run is just sour grapes

NIT champ much better than a one and done.

---more publicity and several ESPN games

--more tourney experience for your returning team(pays big dividends the following season)

--bolsters team confidence for the off season and future

--it IS an accomplishment to defeat five reputable teams in a row

--some players still get excited to play in MSG

--second chance for some teams to prove themselves


Yes, the NIT has gone down from what it was,however,I think some pollsters here have let their egos overshadow practicality.

NIT CHAMPION>>NCAA round of 64 loss.