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I think Ross has some strong upside, but he will never be a No. 1 WR. He is a complementary WR that is a huge speed guy that can stretch the field. You don't take a WR like that in the top 10. Considering his size and injury history, who knows if he can even be a No. 2. He may turn into a No. 3 WR (Though the NFL is playing more 3 WR sets). I wonder if the Bengals got caught up in the WR run, but I would have probably went elsewhere that high if I couldn't trade back.

I do think he will be a nice piece for the Bengals, but top 10 picks aren't for nice pieces. I still find it hard to believe that nobody wanted to move up to No. 9 considering the hauls the Bills and Browns got. They could have traded back and hoped that Ross fell to the 20s (I think he had a chance to or you could have gotten Howard, etc. Maybe they didn't envision the talent that slipped and really wanted Ross, but this was a deep draft with probably 45 legit 1st round talents and they could have probably added another piece this year and next). Bengals are starting to get older and need more players.

(04-28-2017 09:53 AM)Marcus Wrote:  Small, fast, and often injured wideouts don't usually last in the NFL. They just fell in love with the combine numbers. Easily one of the worst first round picks IMO.

I completely agree. Small fast WRs can be had in later rounds and free agency. Yes you won't get "the best of the bunch" like Ross, if you take one later. But 1st rounds picks are not for that kind of player.

If you take a WR in the first round the guy has to be viewed as being a probable #1 on an NFL roster. If a guy that doesn't project to that level isn't there, you pass and take another position.

Not saying this guy won't be good or won't help the offense, he very well may. Just not a sound draft strategy.

(04-28-2017 10:07 AM)JFlight21 Wrote:  

(04-28-2017 09:53 AM)Marcus Wrote:  Small, fast, and often injured wideouts don't usually last in the NFL. They just fell in love with the combine numbers. Easily one of the worst first round picks IMO.

Eifert and Chris Perry were never hurt in college...

TY Hilton (5'9 180) led the league in receiving yards. Odell Beckham (5'11 198) was 3rd. Antonio Brown (5'10 180) was 5th.

Ross has game changing speed and quickness and it plays so well opposite AJ Green.

I personally would have preferred Foster but he didn't go for 22 more picks...

Eifert's big issue IMO is simply his slim build. And there's nothing he can really do about that. It's just not suited for the consistent beating a TE takes in the NFL compared to college, where it's much easier to scheme and keep guys "safe" around subpar defenses.

Foster clearly dropped because of some of the off-field issues, but then again that shouldn't have mattered with the Bengals seeing they continue to keep Adam Jones around.

My issue is how high he was picked. I wasn't saying some smaller WR's can't make it big, but you can get guys like that in the later rounds. If I recall correctly, both Brown and Hilton were lower round picks.

I was hoping for O J Howard. Can block or receive. Put him out there with Eifert and it poses trouble for opposing defenses. Gives some insurance against future Eifert injuries.

(04-28-2017 09:37 AM)JFlight21 Wrote:  

(04-28-2017 09:23 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  9 was either a mystical number that the tarot cards said would yield an injury riddled 1st round bust or alternatively, the Bengals were asking for the world and then just blamed it on nobody wanting to trade.

This pick feels just like the Levi Jones pick to me. Bengals fell in love at the combine and reached. Like the guy in your fantasy football league draft who always thinks he's the smartest guy in the room for taking a guy way too early.

Too be fair, Levi Jones was a very solid player before his injury issues.

I'm thinking Mixon will be the pick at 41. Not going to get into his incident as that has been discussed ad nauseam all over the place, but just watch his tape. He is a game changing talent. His talent blows Bernard and Hill out of the water.

The offense struggled last year because the line wasn't great and the skill talent was mediocre at best (outside of AJ). Adding Mixon to Ross and Green gives you three players that can take it to the house every time they touch the ball...

Levi Jones was a guy that many saw as a high second round talent and the Bengals fell in love and took him way too early at #10 over Dwight Freeney who the Colts took about 2 seconds to pick one spot behind the Bengals. Allen could very well have that kind of career on the DLine.

Granted I only saw Ross play one game last year but with all of his speed he was covered tight as a tick in the Peach Bowl against Alabama. I wasn't blown away. I think he caught a few short dink and dunk passes for 20 yards or so in the whole game. Alabama's taller more physical secondary just engulfed him and knocked him off the line. It got in his head too as I believe the cameras showed him melting down on the bench a couple times.

(04-28-2017 10:16 AM)Eastside_J Wrote:  

(04-28-2017 09:53 AM)Marcus Wrote:  Small, fast, and often injured wideouts don't usually last in the NFL. They just fell in love with the combine numbers. Easily one of the worst first round picks IMO.

I completely agree. Small fast WRs can be had in later rounds and free agency. Yes you won't get "the best of the bunch" like Ross, if you take one later. But 1st rounds picks are not for that kind of player.

If you take a WR in the first round the guy has to be viewed as being a probable #1 on an NFL roster. If a guy that doesn't project to that level isn't there, you pass and take another position.

Not saying this guy won't be good or won't help the offense, he very well may. Just not a sound draft strategy.

Renaldo Nehemiah anyone?

(04-28-2017 10:07 AM)JFlight21 Wrote:  

(04-28-2017 09:53 AM)Marcus Wrote:  Small, fast, and often injured wideouts don't usually last in the NFL. They just fell in love with the combine numbers. Easily one of the worst first round picks IMO.

Eifert and Chris Perry were never hurt in college...

TY Hilton (5'9 180) led the league in receiving yards. Odell Beckham (5'11 198) was 3rd. Antonio Brown (5'10 180) was 5th.

Ross has game changing speed and quickness and it plays so well opposite AJ Green.

I personally would have preferred Foster but he didn't go for 22 more picks...

Yeah - but those guys really PROVE the point why you shouldn't draft them early.

The best of the three Antonio Brown was taken with the 26th Pick of the 6th round!

TY Hilton was the 29th pick of the 3rd round.

Odell Beckham was the only first rounder - 12th pick.

Ross at 9 was taken ahead of every single one of these guys.

Look I hope the guy is a game changer all-pro. You just look at other guys who have been taken in the first round and wonder whether it makes sense to draft a potential mismatch vertical threat guy (which is great) but who doesn't appear to have then length and body to win the 50/50 balls that really separate the #1 vs. #2 targets.

There haven't been that many 1st round guys in the last 7 or eight years. At 9 he was taken before Demarius Thomas, Dez Bryant, Deandre Hopkins, Michael Floyd, and just after AJ Green (4) and Julio Jones (6) and Mike Evans (7). I just think those guys were more predictably probable to make it to become a #1.

He has been compared to Brandin Cooks. A very high quality fast receiver (taken in 2014 round 1 at #22) That is a high bar, but if he turns out to be that good it may have been worth the reach. But its worth noting that New England was able to get Cooks last year after he was a 2 year proven stud for their #23 pick this year. That is smart - this is risky.

(04-28-2017 12:38 PM)Crewdogz Wrote:  

(04-28-2017 10:16 AM)Eastside_J Wrote:  

(04-28-2017 09:53 AM)Marcus Wrote:  Small, fast, and often injured wideouts don't usually last in the NFL. They just fell in love with the combine numbers. Easily one of the worst first round picks IMO.

I completely agree. Small fast WRs can be had in later rounds and free agency. Yes you won't get "the best of the bunch" like Ross, if you take one later. But 1st rounds picks are not for that kind of player.

If you take a WR in the first round the guy has to be viewed as being a probable #1 on an NFL roster. If a guy that doesn't project to that level isn't there, you pass and take another position.

Not saying this guy won't be good or won't help the offense, he very well may. Just not a sound draft strategy.

Renaldo Nehemiah anyone?

UGH.

But, I think that is super low probability. Ross can run a route, adjust to the ball in the air and actually catch it. Which gives him the three important attributes Nehemiah lacked

(04-28-2017 08:41 AM)JFlight21 Wrote:  

(04-28-2017 08:20 AM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

(04-28-2017 08:05 AM)BeerCat Wrote:  

(04-28-2017 07:49 AM)eroc Wrote:  

(04-27-2017 09:37 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  I"m OK with it although I'd have much preferred OJ Howard (although fwiw he continues to slide - maybe something is up?). In the alternative, I'd be a lot happier with it if we had been able to trade back and get Lee around 15 but Marvin said nobody was biting and it takes two to make a deal. If he's the guy you like - take him and don't worry about how others see the value.

i wonder what they were asking for? The Bills trade out of 10 and the Brownies traded out of 12.

The Browns raped the Texans for that pick. I would have been happy with less for the Bengals pick.

Good point about the #10 and #12 picks getting traded back seeming to contradict Marvin. Revised word seems to be the Bengals got no offers to move back a few slots or even to the teens and didn't want to move all the way to the back end of R1 (iirc those trades moved the Bills and Browns to #25 and #27). I'm guessing if they knew a guy like Foster would fall that far, they might very well have jumped on a deal like either of those two got.

The teams that traded up knew the Bengals didn't need a QB.

Another good point, but if a team really wants a particular QB, they aren't going to trade down 15+ slots and hope he's still there. In most cases, teams trade up to get a pick or more ahead of a different team that is also a likely suitor for the player they want.

(04-28-2017 09:37 AM)JFlight21 Wrote:  

(04-28-2017 09:23 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  9 was either a mystical number that the tarot cards said would yield an injury riddled 1st round bust or alternatively, the Bengals were asking for the world and then just blamed it on nobody wanting to trade.

This pick feels just like the Levi Jones pick to me. Bengals fell in love at the combine and reached. Like the guy in your fantasy football league draft who always thinks he's the smartest guy in the room for taking a guy way too early.

Too be fair, Levi Jones was a very solid player before his injury issues.

I'm thinking Mixon will be the pick at 41. Not going to get into his incident as that has been discussed ad nauseam all over the place, but just watch his tape. He is a game changing talent. His talent blows Bernard and Hill out of the water.

The offense struggled last year because the line wasn't great and the skill talent was mediocre at best (outside of AJ). Adding Mixon to Ross and Green gives you three players that can take it to the house every time they touch the ball...

Agree on both counts. Before his injuries, Levi Jones was making the Bengals look like the smartest guy in the room. I'm not sure if injuries were his only issue, but he was off to a great start for his first few years.

I also agree a RB is my guess for R2 with Mixon being the most likely pick. I could also see Dalvin Cook as the pick if he's still there or Alvin Kamara if both Cook and Mixon gone. ESPN Scouts have the Bengals passing on both Mixon and Kamara (who both go in the 8 picks after that) to take OG Dion Dawkins.

(04-28-2017 09:57 AM)Marcus Wrote:  

(04-27-2017 09:34 PM)jarr Wrote:  These last few drafts have reminded me of the late 90's, early 2000's drafts.

Yeah their last few drafts have been brutal.

No way I take a WR that high unless he's a sure franchise type guy (such as if Mike Williams had fallen that far).

Wouldn't have been a "sexy" pick but they should have gone with a guy like Barnett, Allen or Howard.

(04-28-2017 10:07 AM)JFlight21 Wrote:  

(04-28-2017 09:53 AM)Marcus Wrote:  Small, fast, and often injured wideouts don't usually last in the NFL. They just fell in love with the combine numbers. Easily one of the worst first round picks IMO.

Eifert and Chris Perry were never hurt in college...

TY Hilton (5'9 180) led the league in receiving yards. Odell Beckham (5'11 198) was 3rd. Antonio Brown (5'10 180) was 5th.

Ross has game changing speed and quickness and it plays so well opposite AJ Green.

I personally would have preferred Foster but he didn't go for 22 more picks...

Another good post JF. Also I don't buy the "sexy" pick theory with the possible exception of QB or that rare player whose fame goes beyond the game. And I'm pretty sure all the NFL GMs feel the same as do most even moderate fans. Lee got some fame from his Combine speed, but it's not like the casual fan was dying to see where he ended up or quite possibly even knew his name. Bengals saw a game changer who gave them something they lacked and wanted for a long time: an ultra fast deep threat. We'll see if he lives up to his Combine speed and receiving numbers from last year...

Wait until the Bengals draft Joe Mixon. Then watch the internet explode.

(04-28-2017 01:02 PM)Eastside_J Wrote:  Yeah - but those guys really PROVE the point why you shouldn't draft them early.

The best of the three Antonio Brown was taken with the 26th Pick of the 6th round!

TY Hilton was the 29th pick of the 3rd round.

Odell Beckham was the only first rounder - 12th pick.

Also worth noting two of those guys have first ballot hall of famers throwing to them and other guy has Andrew Luck

(04-28-2017 10:50 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(04-28-2017 09:37 AM)JFlight21 Wrote:  

(04-28-2017 09:23 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  9 was either a mystical number that the tarot cards said would yield an injury riddled 1st round bust or alternatively, the Bengals were asking for the world and then just blamed it on nobody wanting to trade.

This pick feels just like the Levi Jones pick to me. Bengals fell in love at the combine and reached. Like the guy in your fantasy football league draft who always thinks he's the smartest guy in the room for taking a guy way too early.

Too be fair, Levi Jones was a very solid player before his injury issues.

I'm thinking Mixon will be the pick at 41. Not going to get into his incident as that has been discussed ad nauseam all over the place, but just watch his tape. He is a game changing talent. His talent blows Bernard and Hill out of the water.

The offense struggled last year because the line wasn't great and the skill talent was mediocre at best (outside of AJ). Adding Mixon to Ross and Green gives you three players that can take it to the house every time they touch the ball...

Levi Jones was a guy that many saw as a high second round talent and the Bengals fell in love and took him way too early at #10 over Dwight Freeney who the Colts took about 2 seconds to pick one spot behind the Bengals. Allen could very well have that kind of career on the DLine.

Granted I only saw Ross play one game last year but with all of his speed he was covered tight as a tick in the Peach Bowl against Alabama. I wasn't blown away. I think he caught a few short dink and dunk passes for 20 yards or so in the whole game. Alabama's taller more physical secondary just engulfed him and knocked him off the line. It got in his head too as I believe the cameras showed him melting down on the bench a couple times.

Bengals drafted Jones in the 2002 draft and signed him to a 6 year $30M extension in 2006 per wikipedia which was a very large deal back then. The "cheap" Bengals wouldn't have done that if he wasn't a performer and it wasn't a controversial signing extension at the time even if it didn't ultimately pan out with the injuries, etc.

Fair point about Ross. I guess the counter to that would be that Alabama is smart enough to know if they stop Ross they stop Washington and talented enough to execute that plan. That might not be the case here with AJ, Eifert, Gio etc around. Ross has a great personal make-up by all accounts - some compare his demeanor to AJ Green's.

(04-28-2017 12:38 PM)Crewdogz Wrote:  

(04-28-2017 10:16 AM)Eastside_J Wrote:  

(04-28-2017 09:53 AM)Marcus Wrote:  Small, fast, and often injured wideouts don't usually last in the NFL. They just fell in love with the combine numbers. Easily one of the worst first round picks IMO.

I completely agree. Small fast WRs can be had in later rounds and free agency. Yes you won't get "the best of the bunch" like Ross, if you take one later. But 1st rounds picks are not for that kind of player.

If you take a WR in the first round the guy has to be viewed as being a probable #1 on an NFL roster. If a guy that doesn't project to that level isn't there, you pass and take another position.

Not saying this guy won't be good or won't help the offense, he very well may. Just not a sound draft strategy.

Renaldo Nehemiah anyone?

I can understand why people think it was too early to pick Ross citing the size risk and injury history. I agree to an extent: I'd be much happier with the pick if we could have gotten him somewhere in the teens (as opposed to those who seem to think he was only worthy of being picked in the later rounds). But as I posted earlier, in addition to being possibly the fastest player in NFL history, he's not a track star trying to learn to play football. The kid has been playing football for years and put up some serious numbers last year.

Alabama played a lot of press man coverage on him. He didn't like it.

There were several articles about him leading up to that bowl game and about how his speed would give Alabama and their secondary that was missing a 2 starters due to injury some problems. Never materialized. They wore him out.

(04-28-2017 02:05 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Alabama played a lot of press man coverage on him. He didn't like it.

There were several articles about him leading up to that bowl game and about how his speed would give Alabama and their secondary that was missing a 2 starters due to injury some problems. Never materialized. They wore him out.

I think that's the biggest question about projecting him in the NFL: whether he can get off the initial bump smoothly enough to exploit his superior speed. My honest answer is I don't know. But if he can, I do think he can be a legit game-changer for the Bengals.

Cook and Mixon both look like guys who could make a serious impact. Cooks straight line speed is completely ridiculous. But I think Mixon shows better cutting and hip swivel. Mixon makes cuts and fakes without slowing down - Cook blows by people with his shoulders squared but you can see his hips and even his feet "drag" a lot when he changes direction. Frankly I would not take Cook. Yes, he is a threat to take it to the end zone every time he touches the ball but I don't think he cuts nearly well enough to make guys miss in the NFL and won't be able to create his own long run opportunities nearly as often as a guy like Mixon.

Hard to weigh battery incidents from each, but that is why they are still on the board Although Cook's charges were dropped and Mixons were from three years ago. Could be win big or lose big on each.

If Forest Lamp is still on the board I think you have to take him. Seriously powerful lineman that can play Guard, Tackle or CENTER. Not likely an NFL starter at Tackle, but could be a rock solid G or Center with some development. I would train him at Center to replace Bodine, the worst thing that can happen if it doesn't work out is you end up with a high caliber, versatile Guard. The Bengal line needs serious help.

If they go road grader in Round 2, Cam Robinson. The guy is a beast.

Saban says he's the best offensive lineman he's had - definitely at Alabama. Saban is not prone to wild ass coach speak, either.

(04-28-2017 02:33 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  If they go road grader in Round 2, Cam Robinson. The guy is a beast.

Saban says he's the best offensive lineman he's had - definitely at Alabama. Saban is not prone to wild ass coach speak, either.

If Robinson drops that far, I would think he'd have to be the no-brainer take. I'll be surprised though if he falls down to the Bengals. Surely they will start addressing the OL no later than Round 3...?