(06-18-2018 02:37 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 02:26 PM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 01:59 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 01:20 PM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 12:41 PM)Nevadanatural Wrote:  I see the score argument (low scoring and ties) all the time as a reason not to watch soccer but it’s all about knowing the game. There is lots to appreciate and enjoy even in a nil-nil game. The same goes for a sport like baseball, it’s just that a lot of people would rather turn their nose up at this foreign game and complain instead of learning the nuances.

There you go again.

Ok, first of all I'm not here to come in a rain on everyone's soccer parade. I joined in when the subject turned why the USA is not good, which was deemed as a general lack of interest. I agreed.

I am on the side of the disinterested American.

I have two kids that played soccer. I've watched more soccer than I cared to. My younger son was even involved in the Crew Jr. program and he quit because it was just too boring to him. And... I didn't discourage him either. If it was my decision he'd have never started.

Anyway, don't make the assumption that Americans are all just soccer ignorant. I know soccer as well as the next guy.

To play 90 minutes and not score IS boring. To run up and down the field and never even get a shot IS boring. Some guy sticks his leg out and everyone's going the other way. Woo hoo.

Off sides is stupid. OOOOH... you've got to give the defense a chances to get back. No fair.

PK's are stupid. No one has a chance in hades of scoring until one little slip up in the box. Step on somebody's shoe lace and suddenly they're presented with a GIMME. The goalie... excuse me... the keeper has about a 1 in 10 chance at stopping it. Then it's only because he guesses right.

Don't even get me started on the flopping. Football guys that fake injury to slow down fast paced offenses do what? That's right, they get BOOOOOOED.

Just because someone doesn't like it does not make them an ignoramus. It's OK if America doesn't join the soccer party.

That's all. Enjoy your games.

Some points:

1. Just because your kid played the sport doesn't give you really any idea of how Soccer truly works. Half of what comes through these Youth Systems within American Soccer is a joke to begin with. We develop nothing like other countries, and are absolutely horrible at identifying talented players. We've turned soccer into a silly Suburban game where you can only play if you have money, and your kids learn next to nothing in terms of actual skills. They just kick the ball around and go home.

2. If you understood the game, You'd figure out that a 0-0 match is probably the exact opposite of boring. It's just not the American way that sports work, so a lot of people thumb their noses up at it. I find most American Sports incredibly boring because everyone forgot how to play defense.

3. Offsides is illegal in American Football as well. It's not about discouraging offense, its about encouraging defense. Without it, you get the joke that is basketball currently where players can just not bother to play defense in exchange for a quick basket on the other end.


4. Soccer fans boo fake injuries just as much as American fans. But just like every sport on earth, the system allows it, as there's really no way on earth to prove an injury is "fake" Especially given what we know now about the danger of concussions. In fact, if anything Soccer is considerably worse than American Football at forcing players to sit when they are injured.

5. PK's are indeed a gimme. So are extra points in football. And No one has ever been successful at getting rid of them.

You can't win if you don't score. You can't score if you don't take a shot.

Teams spend most of their time kicking it around the perimeter looking for an angle that will NEVER come. Why? Because there's 10 guys standing between you and the goal. And you can't get creative and work around the wall of defenders blocking your way... because that's OFF SIDES.

I say get the ball down the field and kick it at the net. You've got a heck of a lot better chance of kicking in a deflection because the defenders can't get into position for them. But nobody ever does that. They just kick it around the perimeter until it gets knocked away and they do the same thing at the other end. YAY.

The only other time you have a shot at scoring is knocking in a corner kick. Many times its also off of a deflection.

No one hardly EVER gets a clean shot off an offensive pattern. And no, it's not beautiful defense... it's 10 guys standing there blocking the way.

...And the football extra point is earned. You have to score to get one. It's not GIVEN to you by the ref.

Meanwhile a 14-0 NFL game or a 7-3 SEC game is considered the most exciting game ever.

No need to change the rules for 100 million Americans who still won't care. They have 7 billion other fans and close to 100 million Americans who think it's fine.

In my mind, a 14-0 NFL game is the same as a 2-0 soccer match. It's just in soccer a goal in 1 pt while in football it's 7 pts. If each soccer goal was 7 pts it'd be the exact same thing.

(06-18-2018 03:21 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 03:00 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 02:44 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  A good example of how not to maximize what your program can do: England. They have plenty of talent in that country and will produce lots of pros, but their development system is based on individual clubs. Not only do those clubs all teach different tactics, they all look for different things in players and increasingly pick up young foreign players.

So while they'll have everyone of their players in UCL or Europa League play, they all play differently and don't have intuition for each other.

It's disorganized and they really care about soccer.

Funny thing is that this year it should be less so. Spurs, Liverpool, and Man City all play styles that are based (loosely) on similar principles. That's 7 of the 10 starting outfield players today.

Alas, it isnt.

Are those principles consistent with how the English team plays? Remember those guys have played for years under different coaches from different standards for years. Some of them were at clubs like QPR and Sheffield for 10 years before they started they're senior careers.

True, but they've played successfully at the club level for multiple years in these systems. I think the bigger issue is that other than Kane, these players aren't that good and that they live off the creativity and skill of better, foreign players on their club rosters.

Kane is the best player on Spurs.

However, Stones, Walker, and Sterling are supporting players to De Brunye, Silva, Aguero, Jesus, etc at City.

Henderson is a supporting player to Firmino, Salah, Mane.

Alli and Trippier at Spurs are arguably no better than the 5th or 6th most important players behind Kane, Eriksen, Dembele, and Son.

(06-18-2018 03:29 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 03:17 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 03:12 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 02:18 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 01:59 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  Your explanation makes sense for a game like cricket (the second most popular game in the world) because most Americans do not undertstand the “nuances” of a “foreign” game.

In contrast, most Americans have had amble opportunity to “know” soccer through the much touted youth participation, but most Americans still do not really care much about soccer. There is nothing wrong with most Americans. Instead, there is something wrong with soccer for most Americans since it does not suit their taste.

The youth participation was usually very brief, not well coached, and not coupled with any soccer you could watch on tv. Even though they participated, it was likely that the coaches of the time didn't watch soccer either.

Add to that, the fact that Americans had been particularly hostile toward the thought of soccer for generations. Didn't just not like it, but would go out of their way to let you know they don't like it (an example being the amount of people who've come in the various soccer threads just to say how "boring" it is). Over the years Americans have softened to the game and will continue to do so. That's already a huge improvement.

If so, then the youth participation figures often trotted out to support the notion that most Americans care about soccer or a strong indicator of its future popularity should be discounted. I have heard the same point since the 1970’s and it has yet to produce the predicted bonanza.

I think the “hostility” you mentioned is a reaction to some soccer evangelists’ belief that Americans [b]should like soccer[/b] and if they don’t it is due to ignorance or stupidity. They completely resist (like hidebound traditionalists) making the game more appealing by improving scoring opportunities just like football, basketball, and baseball have done over the years.

Those people exist more in the mythology* than in real life. In actuality, most "why dont American's like soccer" discussions are started by people who dont like soccer but have nothing better to do with their lives. 99% of American soccer fans just want to watch the sport and to have those I mentioned earlier to just **** off.

Me, personally, I just want to enjoy the sport I've loved my entire life with people who also like the sport. And as far as people who dont like the sport? I dont care. I don't like cargo shorts but I dont go around telling people that like cargo shorts that I dont like their clothes.


*-yes there is 1% who is nuts.

It is a recurring theme on the few occasions soccer is discussed on sports radio in town, although they do not talk much about soccer because most of their listeners do not care. And in this very thread the “ignorant” notion was employed.

Nevertheless, I was disturbed when I saw America did not earn a WC spot. I hate seeing my country fail in anything - especially when Iceland (!!) can do it.

You keep mentioning Iceland. Iceland is a good team and just tied Argentina. Heck, if the US did make it to the WC I'd bet on Iceland to beat us.

(06-18-2018 03:12 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 02:18 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 01:59 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 12:41 PM)Nevadanatural Wrote:  I see the score argument (low scoring and ties) all the time as a reason not to watch soccer but it’s all about knowing the game. There is lots to appreciate and enjoy even in a nil-nil game. The same goes for a sport like baseball, it’s just that a lot of people would rather turn their nose up at this foreign game and complain instead of learning the nuances.

Your explanation makes sense for a game like cricket (the second most popular game in the world) because most Americans do not undertstand the “nuances” of a “foreign” game.

In contrast, most Americans have had amble opportunity to “know” soccer through the much touted youth participation, but most Americans still do not really care much about soccer. There is nothing wrong with most Americans. Instead, there is something wrong with soccer for most Americans since it does not suit their taste.

The youth participation was usually very brief, not well coached, and not coupled with any soccer you could watch on tv. Even though they participated, it was likely that the coaches of the time didn't watch soccer either.

Add to that, the fact that Americans had been particularly hostile toward the thought of soccer for generations. Didn't just not like it, but would go out of their way to let you know they don't like it (an example being the amount of people who've come in the various soccer threads just to say how "boring" it is). Over the years Americans have softened to the game and will continue to do so. That's already a huge improvement.

If so, then the youth participation figures often trotted out to support the notion that most Americans care about soccer or a strong indicator of its future popularity should be discounted. I have heard the same point since the 1970’s and it has yet to produce the predicted bonanza.

I think the “hostility” you mentioned is a reaction to some soccer evangelists’ belief that Americans should like soccer and if they don’t it is due to ignorance or stupidity. They completely resist (like hidebound traditionalists) making the game more appealing by improving scoring opportunities just like football, basketball, and baseball have done over the years.

Yes it should. For a long time those numbers should've had a caveat. Youth participation without exposure outside of that is useless. Now we have NBC and Fox showing hours of soccer every Saturday and Sunday morning and MLS has finally made some wise choices when picking locations. Now youth participation is joined with kids watching soccer regularly and playing FIFA.

On the hostility point. It's not a reaction to anything. Sure "soccer guy" exists, but people have never needed motivation to come and dump on soccer out of nowhere. The in your face "soccer guy" is an amalgam of a lot of undesirable traits and like all urban legends, everyone claims they have seen them, but few people if anybody already has.

(06-18-2018 03:29 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 03:17 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 03:12 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 02:18 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 01:59 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  Your explanation makes sense for a game like cricket (the second most popular game in the world) because most Americans do not undertstand the “nuances” of a “foreign” game.

In contrast, most Americans have had amble opportunity to “know” soccer through the much touted youth participation, but most Americans still do not really care much about soccer. There is nothing wrong with most Americans. Instead, there is something wrong with soccer for most Americans since it does not suit their taste.

The youth participation was usually very brief, not well coached, and not coupled with any soccer you could watch on tv. Even though they participated, it was likely that the coaches of the time didn't watch soccer either.

Add to that, the fact that Americans had been particularly hostile toward the thought of soccer for generations. Didn't just not like it, but would go out of their way to let you know they don't like it (an example being the amount of people who've come in the various soccer threads just to say how "boring" it is). Over the years Americans have softened to the game and will continue to do so. That's already a huge improvement.

If so, then the youth participation figures often trotted out to support the notion that most Americans care about soccer or a strong indicator of its future popularity should be discounted. I have heard the same point since the 1970’s and it has yet to produce the predicted bonanza.

I think the “hostility” you mentioned is a reaction to some soccer evangelists’ belief that Americans [b]should like soccer[/b] and if they don’t it is due to ignorance or stupidity. They completely resist (like hidebound traditionalists) making the game more appealing by improving scoring opportunities just like football, basketball, and baseball have done over the years.

Those people exist more in the mythology* than in real life. In actuality, most "why dont American's like soccer" discussions are started by people who dont like soccer but have nothing better to do with their lives. 99% of American soccer fans just want to watch the sport and to have those I mentioned earlier to just **** off.

Me, personally, I just want to enjoy the sport I've loved my entire life with people who also like the sport. And as far as people who dont like the sport? I dont care. I don't like cargo shorts but I dont go around telling people that like cargo shorts that I dont like their clothes.


*-yes there is 1% who is nuts.

It is a recurring theme on the few occasions soccer is discussed on sports radio in town, although they do not talk much about soccer because most of their listeners do not care. And in this very thread the “ignorant” notion was employed.

Nevertheless, I was disturbed when I saw America did not earn a WC spot. I hate seeing my country fail in anything - especially when Iceland (!!) can do it.

For some one who is sick of soccer evangelists you sure do spend a lot of time on a soccer thread. Perhaps you should find something else to do with your life so your delicate sensibilities arent threatened by the mean soccer people.

(06-18-2018 03:23 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 03:12 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 02:18 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 01:59 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 12:41 PM)Nevadanatural Wrote:  I see the score argument (low scoring and ties) all the time as a reason not to watch soccer but it’s all about knowing the game. There is lots to appreciate and enjoy even in a nil-nil game. The same goes for a sport like baseball, it’s just that a lot of people would rather turn their nose up at this foreign game and complain instead of learning the nuances.

Your explanation makes sense for a game like cricket (the second most popular game in the world) because most Americans do not undertstand the “nuances” of a “foreign” game.

In contrast, most Americans have had amble opportunity to “know” soccer through the much touted youth participation, but most Americans still do not really care much about soccer. There is nothing wrong with most Americans. Instead, there is something wrong with soccer for most Americans since it does not suit their taste.

The youth participation was usually very brief, not well coached, and not coupled with any soccer you could watch on tv. Even though they participated, it was likely that the coaches of the time didn't watch soccer either.

Add to that, the fact that Americans had been particularly hostile toward the thought of soccer for generations. Didn't just not like it, but would go out of their way to let you know they don't like it (an example being the amount of people who've come in the various soccer threads just to say how "boring" it is). Over the years Americans have softened to the game and will continue to do so. That's already a huge improvement.

If so, then the youth participation figures often trotted out to support the notion that most Americans care about soccer or a strong indicator of its future popularity should be discounted. I have heard the same point since the 1970’s and it has yet to produce the predicted bonanza.

I think the “hostility” you mentioned is a reaction to some soccer evangelists’ belief that Americans [b]should like socce[/b]r and if they don’t it is due to ignorance or stupidity. They completely resist (like hidebound traditionalists) making the game more appealing by improving scoring opportunities just like football, basketball, and baseball have done over the years.

Couldn't agree more with this...there are a lot of jackasses (on both sides) who make it far more contemptuous than it should be. Look at the generation born in the 80's and 90's...they are categorically destroying the old funding model for baseball because of their disinterest to borderline hatred of that sport, but no one gets into stupid shouting matches about it. I think a lot of the maliciousness probably has to do with the fact that soccer interest seems to be with a specific generation (millennial and Gen X) and ideal (globalization) that everyone outside of those brackets feel is the problem, and many tend to lash back out at any comments, ignorant or otherwise.

Personally, I love soccer, have played it for 20+ years competitively at the club, collegiate, and semi-professional level, but I recognize its shortcomings and completely accept than many don't like it and will never try to "convert" anyone (just like my distaste for baseball that no one comes after me for)...I just hate it when an utter lack of perspective is being used to make a point about why it's a "terrible sport".

The sport that I'm shocked actually hasn't picked up steam in America is hockey...it quite literally has everything the American sporting enthusiast wants. Plenty of scoring opportunities, no whining, constant action, short games, and fighting...I'm from Northern MI originally though, so I'm one of the converted borderline Canadians there.

Hockey has the bad designation of being a regional sport that has been distinguished by regional weather. It's a sport that's been played in the US a good deal over a century, but it can't shake its regional vibe.

It's similar to sports in Australia. Every region developed their own sport and now they don't have one that stands out.

(06-18-2018 03:24 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 03:18 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 03:11 PM)DowdyPirate2 Wrote:  Wolves signed Rui Patricio today

Sporting Lisbon is in bad shape. No CL. Fans attacking players. Players terminating contracts. Rough time.

Wolves may as well have a green and white alternate developed at this point

Wolves are going to be really good this year. I might get to see them play live this season. I'm going to London(most likely) right after Christmas. They are playing Spurs at the new White Hart Lane on the 29th. Going to try to get up to North London for the game.

(06-18-2018 03:29 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 03:17 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 03:12 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 02:18 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 01:59 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  Your explanation makes sense for a game like cricket (the second most popular game in the world) because most Americans do not undertstand the “nuances” of a “foreign” game.

In contrast, most Americans have had amble opportunity to “know” soccer through the much touted youth participation, but most Americans still do not really care much about soccer. There is nothing wrong with most Americans. Instead, there is something wrong with soccer for most Americans since it does not suit their taste.

The youth participation was usually very brief, not well coached, and not coupled with any soccer you could watch on tv. Even though they participated, it was likely that the coaches of the time didn't watch soccer either.

Add to that, the fact that Americans had been particularly hostile toward the thought of soccer for generations. Didn't just not like it, but would go out of their way to let you know they don't like it (an example being the amount of people who've come in the various soccer threads just to say how "boring" it is). Over the years Americans have softened to the game and will continue to do so. That's already a huge improvement.

If so, then the youth participation figures often trotted out to support the notion that most Americans care about soccer or a strong indicator of its future popularity should be discounted. I have heard the same point since the 1970’s and it has yet to produce the predicted bonanza.

I think the “hostility” you mentioned is a reaction to some soccer evangelists’ belief that Americans [b]should like soccer[/b] and if they don’t it is due to ignorance or stupidity. They completely resist (like hidebound traditionalists) making the game more appealing by improving scoring opportunities just like football, basketball, and baseball have done over the years.

Those people exist more in the mythology* than in real life. In actuality, most "why dont American's like soccer" discussions are started by people who dont like soccer but have nothing better to do with their lives. 99% of American soccer fans just want to watch the sport and to have those I mentioned earlier to just **** off.

Me, personally, I just want to enjoy the sport I've loved my entire life with people who also like the sport. And as far as people who dont like the sport? I dont care. I don't like cargo shorts but I dont go around telling people that like cargo shorts that I dont like their clothes.


*-yes there is 1% who is nuts.

It is a recurring theme on the few occasions soccer is discussed on sports radio in town, although they do not talk much about soccer because most of their listeners do not care. And in this very thread the “ignorant” notion was employed.

Nevertheless, I was disturbed when I saw America did not earn a WC spot. I hate seeing my country fail in anything - especially when Iceland (!!) can do it.

It's not like Iceland is traditionally making it to the WC and that the USA never makes it. This is Iceland's first time and if you're younger than 34 years old, this is the first time in your life that the US didn't make it. In other news Italy missed after playing in 13-straight and winning 4.

Iceland made it because the stars aligned and we didn't make it because our stars were old.

(06-18-2018 03:31 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 03:21 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 03:00 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 02:44 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  A good example of how not to maximize what your program can do: England. They have plenty of talent in that country and will produce lots of pros, but their development system is based on individual clubs. Not only do those clubs all teach different tactics, they all look for different things in players and increasingly pick up young foreign players.

So while they'll have everyone of their players in UCL or Europa League play, they all play differently and don't have intuition for each other.

It's disorganized and they really care about soccer.

Funny thing is that this year it should be less so. Spurs, Liverpool, and Man City all play styles that are based (loosely) on similar principles. That's 7 of the 10 starting outfield players today.

Alas, it isnt.

Are those principles consistent with how the English team plays? Remember those guys have played for years under different coaches from different standards for years. Some of them were at clubs like QPR and Sheffield for 10 years before they started they're senior careers.

True, but they've played successfully at the club level for multiple years in these systems. I think the bigger issue is that other than Kane, these players aren't that good and that they live off the creativity and skill of better, foreign players on their club rosters.

Kane is the best player on Spurs.

However, Stones, Walker, and Sterling are supporting players to De Brunye, Silva, Aguero, Jesus, etc at City.

Henderson is a supporting player to Firmino, Salah, Mane.

Alli and Trippier at Spurs are arguably no better than the 5th or 6th most important players behind Kane, Eriksen, Dembele, and Son.

True. How many English players in the PL are the best players on their team? Hell, how many in top flight anywhere in the world are the best on their teams? Since Rooney isn't there, only Kane has the responsibility of being "the man" week to week. They better be happy they have some talent, even if it's unrefined. Otherwise they'd have a Netherlands situation on their hands.

Compare that with Germany.

(06-18-2018 03:40 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 03:23 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 03:12 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 02:18 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 01:59 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  Your explanation makes sense for a game like cricket (the second most popular game in the world) because most Americans do not undertstand the “nuances” of a “foreign” game.

In contrast, most Americans have had amble opportunity to “know” soccer through the much touted youth participation, but most Americans still do not really care much about soccer. There is nothing wrong with most Americans. Instead, there is something wrong with soccer for most Americans since it does not suit their taste.

The youth participation was usually very brief, not well coached, and not coupled with any soccer you could watch on tv. Even though they participated, it was likely that the coaches of the time didn't watch soccer either.

Add to that, the fact that Americans had been particularly hostile toward the thought of soccer for generations. Didn't just not like it, but would go out of their way to let you know they don't like it (an example being the amount of people who've come in the various soccer threads just to say how "boring" it is). Over the years Americans have softened to the game and will continue to do so. That's already a huge improvement.

If so, then the youth participation figures often trotted out to support the notion that most Americans care about soccer or a strong indicator of its future popularity should be discounted. I have heard the same point since the 1970’s and it has yet to produce the predicted bonanza.

I think the “hostility” you mentioned is a reaction to some soccer evangelists’ belief that Americans [b]should like socce[/b]r and if they don’t it is due to ignorance or stupidity. They completely resist (like hidebound traditionalists) making the game more appealing by improving scoring opportunities just like football, basketball, and baseball have done over the years.

Couldn't agree more with this...there are a lot of jackasses (on both sides) who make it far more contemptuous than it should be. Look at the generation born in the 80's and 90's...they are categorically destroying the old funding model for baseball because of their disinterest to borderline hatred of that sport, but no one gets into stupid shouting matches about it. I think a lot of the maliciousness probably has to do with the fact that soccer interest seems to be with a specific generation (millennial and Gen X) and ideal (globalization) that everyone outside of those brackets feel is the problem, and many tend to lash back out at any comments, ignorant or otherwise.

Personally, I love soccer, have played it for 20+ years competitively at the club, collegiate, and semi-professional level, but I recognize its shortcomings and completely accept than many don't like it and will never try to "convert" anyone (just like my distaste for baseball that no one comes after me for)...I just hate it when an utter lack of perspective is being used to make a point about why it's a "terrible sport".

The sport that I'm shocked actually hasn't picked up steam in America is hockey...it quite literally has everything the American sporting enthusiast wants. Plenty of scoring opportunities, no whining, constant action, short games, and fighting...I'm from Northern MI originally though, so I'm one of the converted borderline Canadians there.

Hockey has the bad designation of being a regional sport that has been distinguished by regional weather. It's a sport that's been played in the US a good deal over a century, but it can't shake its regional vibe.

It's similar to sports in Australia. Every region developed their own sport and now they don't have one that stands out.

The Wallabies and their rugby world cup would like a word with you. Or any of the super league teams who play games on 4 continents.

So would the often number one test cricket, single day cricket world cup, and Ashes winning Aussies.

The Aussie Rules teams will line up behind them with a 100,000 in the stands for some games. AFL is the 4th highest attended football code league in the world with a 35,000+ average higher than MLB and behind only the NFL, Bundesliga, and Premier league.

Rugby, cricket, and Aussie Rules are dominant national sports. They have strong soccer and basketball pro leagues as well.

(06-18-2018 03:45 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 03:24 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 03:18 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 03:11 PM)DowdyPirate2 Wrote:  Wolves signed Rui Patricio today

Sporting Lisbon is in bad shape. No CL. Fans attacking players. Players terminating contracts. Rough time.

Wolves may as well have a green and white alternate developed at this point

Wolves are going to be really good this year. I might get to see them play live this season. I'm going to London(most likely) right after Christmas. They are playing Spurs at the new White Hart Lane on the 29th. Going to try to get up to North London for the game.

I hope we are. The only thing I’m concerned about is how much we play through and rely on our wing backs. Doherty and Douglas are solid players, but I have a feeling they will be our weak link in the PL if we do not upgrade.

(06-18-2018 04:04 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 03:40 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 03:23 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 03:12 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 02:18 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  The youth participation was usually very brief, not well coached, and not coupled with any soccer you could watch on tv. Even though they participated, it was likely that the coaches of the time didn't watch soccer either.

Add to that, the fact that Americans had been particularly hostile toward the thought of soccer for generations. Didn't just not like it, but would go out of their way to let you know they don't like it (an example being the amount of people who've come in the various soccer threads just to say how "boring" it is). Over the years Americans have softened to the game and will continue to do so. That's already a huge improvement.

If so, then the youth participation figures often trotted out to support the notion that most Americans care about soccer or a strong indicator of its future popularity should be discounted. I have heard the same point since the 1970’s and it has yet to produce the predicted bonanza.

I think the “hostility” you mentioned is a reaction to some soccer evangelists’ belief that Americans [b]should like socce[/b]r and if they don’t it is due to ignorance or stupidity. They completely resist (like hidebound traditionalists) making the game more appealing by improving scoring opportunities just like football, basketball, and baseball have done over the years.

Couldn't agree more with this...there are a lot of jackasses (on both sides) who make it far more contemptuous than it should be. Look at the generation born in the 80's and 90's...they are categorically destroying the old funding model for baseball because of their disinterest to borderline hatred of that sport, but no one gets into stupid shouting matches about it. I think a lot of the maliciousness probably has to do with the fact that soccer interest seems to be with a specific generation (millennial and Gen X) and ideal (globalization) that everyone outside of those brackets feel is the problem, and many tend to lash back out at any comments, ignorant or otherwise.

Personally, I love soccer, have played it for 20+ years competitively at the club, collegiate, and semi-professional level, but I recognize its shortcomings and completely accept than many don't like it and will never try to "convert" anyone (just like my distaste for baseball that no one comes after me for)...I just hate it when an utter lack of perspective is being used to make a point about why it's a "terrible sport".

The sport that I'm shocked actually hasn't picked up steam in America is hockey...it quite literally has everything the American sporting enthusiast wants. Plenty of scoring opportunities, no whining, constant action, short games, and fighting...I'm from Northern MI originally though, so I'm one of the converted borderline Canadians there.

Hockey has the bad designation of being a regional sport that has been distinguished by regional weather. It's a sport that's been played in the US a good deal over a century, but it can't shake its regional vibe.

It's similar to sports in Australia. Every region developed their own sport and now they don't have one that stands out.

The Wallabies and their rugby world cup would like a word with you. Or any of the super league teams who play games on 4 continents.

So would the often number one test cricket, single day cricket world cup, and Ashes winning Aussies.

The Aussie Rules teams will line up behind them with a 100,000 in the stands for some games. AFL is the 4th highest attended football code league in the world with a 35,000+ average higher than MLB and behind only the NFL, Bundesliga, and Premier league.

Rugby, cricket, and Aussie Rules are dominant national sports. They have strong soccer and basketball pro leagues as well.

I didn't know we were talking about national teams here. I was talking domestic.

Have you seen the attendence numbers for Super Rugby and National Rugby League? They have attendance crises. Super Rugby's Australian teams only had 45% attendance during the playoffs. It doesn't help that their fans do NOT cross over due to the League/Union rivalry. Last season Super Rugby's attendance dropped 20% and it was already low.

AFL is big in its own way, but at its heart it's still a Melbourne phenomenon with 10 of 18 teams in Victoria. The people who are crazy about it are crazy about it, but a vast majority of the membership is within an hour's drive from Melbourne. That's not an exaggeration. Over 400,000 of team membership can get in a car and get to Melbourne Cricket Ground in less than an hour.

Now, everyone of these sports have fanbases, but they tend not to like the others. Talk about hostle. So, while these sports are major, neither one of them can say that they have major crossover appeal that makes the NFL and NBA what they are.

(06-18-2018 02:41 PM)Huskypride Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 02:37 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 02:26 PM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 01:59 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 01:20 PM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  There you go again.

Ok, first of all I'm not here to come in a rain on everyone's soccer parade. I joined in when the subject turned why the USA is not good, which was deemed as a general lack of interest. I agreed.

I am on the side of the disinterested American.

I have two kids that played soccer. I've watched more soccer than I cared to. My younger son was even involved in the Crew Jr. program and he quit because it was just too boring to him. And... I didn't discourage him either. If it was my decision he'd have never started.

Anyway, don't make the assumption that Americans are all just soccer ignorant. I know soccer as well as the next guy.

To play 90 minutes and not score IS boring. To run up and down the field and never even get a shot IS boring. Some guy sticks his leg out and everyone's going the other way. Woo hoo.

Off sides is stupid. OOOOH... you've got to give the defense a chances to get back. No fair.

PK's are stupid. No one has a chance in hades of scoring until one little slip up in the box. Step on somebody's shoe lace and suddenly they're presented with a GIMME. The goalie... excuse me... the keeper has about a 1 in 10 chance at stopping it. Then it's only because he guesses right.

Don't even get me started on the flopping. Football guys that fake injury to slow down fast paced offenses do what? That's right, they get BOOOOOOED.

Just because someone doesn't like it does not make them an ignoramus. It's OK if America doesn't join the soccer party.

That's all. Enjoy your games.

Some points:

1. Just because your kid played the sport doesn't give you really any idea of how Soccer truly works. Half of what comes through these Youth Systems within American Soccer is a joke to begin with. We develop nothing like other countries, and are absolutely horrible at identifying talented players. We've turned soccer into a silly Suburban game where you can only play if you have money, and your kids learn next to nothing in terms of actual skills. They just kick the ball around and go home.

2. If you understood the game, You'd figure out that a 0-0 match is probably the exact opposite of boring. It's just not the American way that sports work, so a lot of people thumb their noses up at it. I find most American Sports incredibly boring because everyone forgot how to play defense.

3. Offsides is illegal in American Football as well. It's not about discouraging offense, its about encouraging defense. Without it, you get the joke that is basketball currently where players can just not bother to play defense in exchange for a quick basket on the other end.


4. Soccer fans boo fake injuries just as much as American fans. But just like every sport on earth, the system allows it, as there's really no way on earth to prove an injury is "fake" Especially given what we know now about the danger of concussions. In fact, if anything Soccer is considerably worse than American Football at forcing players to sit when they are injured.

5. PK's are indeed a gimme. So are extra points in football. And No one has ever been successful at getting rid of them.

You can't win if you don't score. You can't score if you don't take a shot.

Teams spend most of their time kicking it around the perimeter looking for an angle that will NEVER come. Why? Because there's 10 guys standing between you and the goal. And you can't get creative and work around the wall of defenders blocking your way... because that's OFF SIDES.

I say get the ball down the field and kick it at the net. You've got a heck of a lot better chance of kicking in a deflection because the defenders can't get into position for them. But nobody ever does that. They just kick it around the perimeter until it gets knocked away and they do the same thing at the other end. YAY.

The only other time you have a shot at scoring is knocking in a corner kick. Many times its also off of a deflection.

No one hardly EVER gets a clean shot off an offensive pattern. And no, it's not beautiful defense... it's 10 guys standing there blocking the way.

...And the football extra point is earned. You have to score to get one. It's not GIVEN to you by the ref.

Meanwhile a 14-0 NFL game or a 7-3 SEC game is considered the most exciting game ever.

No need to change the rules for 100 million Americans who still won't care. They have 7 billion other fans and close to 100 million Americans who think it's fine.

14-0 zero is not exciting especially if you are a UConn fan and scoring is a huge struggle for you team. more like stressfull. But a 7-3 game is exciting imo

I am one of the few on this board that can claim they sat through a college football game that finished 0-0 in regulation. I also have sat through a 0-0 in Soccer.

Only one of those games was exciting and it wasn't the football game. The thing about football, is that the rules are catered to the offensive player, so for a game to go scoreless, things must go terribly, terribly wrong. That game was essentially 3 hours of 3 and outs. It was one of the most boring, unimaginative sporting events I have ever sat through.

An American who claims that they hate a low scoring game is most likely someone who is used to the American scoring systems when the only way you get a low scoring game is if both teams literally screw up... a lot.

(06-18-2018 03:36 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 03:29 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 03:17 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 03:12 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 02:18 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  The youth participation was usually very brief, not well coached, and not coupled with any soccer you could watch on tv. Even though they participated, it was likely that the coaches of the time didn't watch soccer either.

Add to that, the fact that Americans had been particularly hostile toward the thought of soccer for generations. Didn't just not like it, but would go out of their way to let you know they don't like it (an example being the amount of people who've come in the various soccer threads just to say how "boring" it is). Over the years Americans have softened to the game and will continue to do so. That's already a huge improvement.

If so, then the youth participation figures often trotted out to support the notion that most Americans care about soccer or a strong indicator of its future popularity should be discounted. I have heard the same point since the 1970’s and it has yet to produce the predicted bonanza.

I think the “hostility” you mentioned is a reaction to some soccer evangelists’ belief that Americans [b]should like soccer[/b] and if they don’t it is due to ignorance or stupidity. They completely resist (like hidebound traditionalists) making the game more appealing by improving scoring opportunities just like football, basketball, and baseball have done over the years.

Those people exist more in the mythology* than in real life. In actuality, most "why dont American's like soccer" discussions are started by people who dont like soccer but have nothing better to do with their lives. 99% of American soccer fans just want to watch the sport and to have those I mentioned earlier to just **** off.

Me, personally, I just want to enjoy the sport I've loved my entire life with people who also like the sport. And as far as people who dont like the sport? I dont care. I don't like cargo shorts but I dont go around telling people that like cargo shorts that I dont like their clothes.


*-yes there is 1% who is nuts.

It is a recurring theme on the few occasions soccer is discussed on sports radio in town, although they do not talk much about soccer because most of their listeners do not care. And in this very thread the “ignorant” notion was employed.

Nevertheless, I was disturbed when I saw America did not earn a WC spot. I hate seeing my country fail in anything - especially when Iceland (!!) can do it.

For some one who is sick of soccer evangelists you sure do spend a lot of time on a soccer thread. Perhaps you should find something else to do with your life so your delicate sensibilities arent threatened by the mean soccer people.

Wow, it is just a messageboard. There is no need for personal attacks.

Like most Americans, I leave you to the tedium.

I’m a rare 55 year old who played soccer as a kid. Loved playing it, loved watching and coaching my kids and love watching it now. For those who claim its boring, that’s your prerogative. But to say it’s unpopular or its not becoming more popular is simply incorrect. Soccer is becoming more popular and the World Cup coming here in 8 years will only accelerate the growth.

(06-18-2018 09:15 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 02:41 PM)Huskypride Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 02:37 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 02:26 PM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  

(06-18-2018 01:59 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  Some points:

1. Just because your kid played the sport doesn't give you really any idea of how Soccer truly works. Half of what comes through these Youth Systems within American Soccer is a joke to begin with. We develop nothing like other countries, and are absolutely horrible at identifying talented players. We've turned soccer into a silly Suburban game where you can only play if you have money, and your kids learn next to nothing in terms of actual skills. They just kick the ball around and go home.

2. If you understood the game, You'd figure out that a 0-0 match is probably the exact opposite of boring. It's just not the American way that sports work, so a lot of people thumb their noses up at it. I find most American Sports incredibly boring because everyone forgot how to play defense.

3. Offsides is illegal in American Football as well. It's not about discouraging offense, its about encouraging defense. Without it, you get the joke that is basketball currently where players can just not bother to play defense in exchange for a quick basket on the other end.


4. Soccer fans boo fake injuries just as much as American fans. But just like every sport on earth, the system allows it, as there's really no way on earth to prove an injury is "fake" Especially given what we know now about the danger of concussions. In fact, if anything Soccer is considerably worse than American Football at forcing players to sit when they are injured.

5. PK's are indeed a gimme. So are extra points in football. And No one has ever been successful at getting rid of them.

You can't win if you don't score. You can't score if you don't take a shot.

Teams spend most of their time kicking it around the perimeter looking for an angle that will NEVER come. Why? Because there's 10 guys standing between you and the goal. And you can't get creative and work around the wall of defenders blocking your way... because that's OFF SIDES.

I say get the ball down the field and kick it at the net. You've got a heck of a lot better chance of kicking in a deflection because the defenders can't get into position for them. But nobody ever does that. They just kick it around the perimeter until it gets knocked away and they do the same thing at the other end. YAY.

The only other time you have a shot at scoring is knocking in a corner kick. Many times its also off of a deflection.

No one hardly EVER gets a clean shot off an offensive pattern. And no, it's not beautiful defense... it's 10 guys standing there blocking the way.

...And the football extra point is earned. You have to score to get one. It's not GIVEN to you by the ref.

Meanwhile a 14-0 NFL game or a 7-3 SEC game is considered the most exciting game ever.

No need to change the rules for 100 million Americans who still won't care. They have 7 billion other fans and close to 100 million Americans who think it's fine.

14-0 zero is not exciting especially if you are a UConn fan and scoring is a huge struggle for you team. more like stressfull. But a 7-3 game is exciting imo

I am one of the few on this board that can claim they sat through a college football game that finished 0-0 in regulation. I also have sat through a 0-0 in Soccer.

Only one of those games was exciting and it wasn't the football game. The thing about football, is that the rules are catered to the offensive player, so for a game to go scoreless, things must go terribly, terribly wrong. That game was essentially 3 hours of 3 and outs. It was one of the most boring, unimaginative sporting events I have ever sat through.

An American who claims that they hate a low scoring game is most likely someone who is used to the American scoring systems when the only way you get a low scoring game is if both teams literally screw up... a lot.

man i played socccer at a competitive level in high school Ik the game very well. I just dont find it fun to watch. I agree there are times when the game gets tense and its fun but for the most part unless i am in goal and participating. I just dont find it fun or entertaining . I am not saying everyone has to agree with me. I understand that to outsiders think american football is boring and thats fine. They have every right to think that . Football is not for everyone. I understand soccer is the most popular game in the world. it inexpensive and you can play it anywhere and its easy to pick up for the most part. all i said was that id rather watch a low scoring football game vs a low scoring soccer match. I never said i hate soccer as a whole.

Davinson Sanchez horrible defending puts Colombia down a man and a goal in the 3rd minute. Colombia are in big trouble plus no James Rodriguez!

(06-19-2018 07:17 AM)Loco Bearcat Wrote:  Davinson Sanchez horrible defending puts Colombia down a man and a goal in the 3rd minute. Colombia are in big trouble plus no James Rodriguez!

Cannot believe that...just terrible. Their World Cup could potentially be OVER now, 3 minutes into the game.

UNDER the wall for a goal...I don't think I've ever seen that actually work in a professional level game.

(06-19-2018 07:42 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  UNDER the wall for a goal...I don't think I've ever seen that actually work in a professional level game.

Ronaldo did that against Bayern Munich in the 2014 Champions League Semifinals.