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Could UConn swing football independence and Big East for everything else?
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C2__ Online
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Post: #441
RE: Could UConn swing football independence and Big East for everything else?
Yes, it's a crapshoot. The reason 1-seeds never lose to 16-seeds is because the talent gap is too wide and half of 16-seeds are teams that got hot in their conference tournaments because...IT'S A CRAPSHOOT. How many times have you seen a regular season champion get knocked out only to see some low seeded team come up and win the conference tournament? Too many to count, which proves you can't put all your stock in who is the champion.

That's the thing about sports in general, the best team doesn't always win, which is why when analyzing who the best is over time, we should look at more than the most basic stats.
(This post was last modified: 06-29-2017 12:35 AM by C2__.)
06-28-2017 05:14 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #442
RE: Could UConn swing football independence and Big East for everything else?
(06-28-2017 05:14 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  That's the thing about sports in general, the best team doesn't always win, which is why when analyzing who the best is over time, we should look at more than most basic stats.

OK. We can count national championships, Final Fours, Sweet Sixteens, Tournament appearances, Tournament wins. All-time, last ten years, last 20 years, last 50 years. Count it up any way you like, the Big East will look just fine.
06-28-2017 06:44 PM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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Post: #443
RE: Could UConn swing football independence and Big East for everything else?
(06-28-2017 05:14 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Yes, it's a crapshoot. The reason 1-seeds never lose to 16-seeds is because the talent gap is too wide and half of 16-seeds are teams that got hot in their conference tournaments because...IT'S A CRAPSHOOT. How many times have you seen a regular season champion get knocked out only to see some low seeded team come up and win the conference tournamenl? Too many to count, which proves you can't put all your stock in who is the champion.

That's the thing about sports in general, the best team doesn't always win, which is why when analyzing who the best is over time, we should look at more than most basic stats.

Ugh so the champs aren;t the best? Great then why watch sports? Lets just look at lineups and declare who the best is. Great idea.
06-28-2017 07:41 PM
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C2__ Online
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Post: #444
RE: Could UConn swing football independence and Big East for everything else?
We watch to support our schools, regional favorites, friends, family and associates. We watch to see if the best wins or gets upset. That's right we watch for upsets because the best team doesn't always win, like in 1983. 03-hissyfit 03-banghead

Where was I? 03-weeping Oh yeah, we watch for a number of reasons and that's among the biggest. We literally watch March Madness to see the underdogs win because it's fun. Thus for that reason the best team doesn't always win and it's more fun that way. The only sport I can think of off the the top of my head where you more or less see the top team win is European soccer because there's no playoff and they have a round robin schedule. And even that guarantees nothing because of injuries and flukes.

But that's a sport I'd consider the champion to be the best team as compared to the NCAA Tournament, where a 30-win team could be sent home by a flame shooting 3-point team on opening weekend.
06-29-2017 12:59 AM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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Post: #445
RE: Could UConn swing football independence and Big East for everything else?
(06-29-2017 12:59 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  We watch to support our schools, regional favorites, friends, family and associates. We watch to see if the best wins or gets upset. That's right we watch for upsets because the best team doesn't always win, like in 1983. 03-hissyfit 03-banghead

Where was I? 03-weeping Oh yeah, we watch for a number of reasons and that's among the biggest. We literally watch March Madness to see the underdogs win because it's fun. Thus for that reason the best team doesn't always win and it's more fun that way. The only sport I can think of off the the top of my head where you more or less see the top team win is European soccer because there's no playoff and they have a round robin schedule. And even that guarantees nothing because of injuries and flukes.

But that's a sport I'd consider the champion to be the best team as compared to the NCAA Tournament, where a 30-win team could be sent home by a flame shooting 3-point team on opening weekend.

Okay name the last NCAA champ that wasn't the best team. Was UNC not the best? Villanova? Duke? How far back until we see one of these hot hands as champ? If that 30 win team loses in the first weekend then clearly they weren't the best team. Winning the NCAA is very hard and only great teams can do it.
06-29-2017 07:00 AM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #446
RE: Could UConn swing football independence and Big East for everything else?
(06-29-2017 07:00 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 12:59 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  We watch to support our schools, regional favorites, friends, family and associates. We watch to see if the best wins or gets upset. That's right we watch for upsets because the best team doesn't always win, like in 1983. 03-hissyfit 03-banghead

Where was I? 03-weeping Oh yeah, we watch for a number of reasons and that's among the biggest. We literally watch March Madness to see the underdogs win because it's fun. Thus for that reason the best team doesn't always win and it's more fun that way. The only sport I can think of off the the top of my head where you more or less see the top team win is European soccer because there's no playoff and they have a round robin schedule. And even that guarantees nothing because of injuries and flukes.

But that's a sport I'd consider the champion to be the best team as compared to the NCAA Tournament, where a 30-win team could be sent home by a flame shooting 3-point team on opening weekend.

Okay name the last NCAA champ that wasn't the best team. Was UNC not the best? Villanova? Duke? How far back until we see one of these hot hands as champ? If that 30 win team loses in the first weekend then clearly they weren't the best team. Winning the NCAA is very hard and only great teams can do it.

This is what I like about the NCAA basketball tournament. The champion may not be the "best" statistically but the champion is the champion like all pro sports.

Looking at seeds: 2014 - (7) Connecticut, 1988 - (6) Kansas, 1985 - (8) Villanova, 1983 - (6) North Carolina St.

I single these out about because, subjectively, a team not given a top-4 seed regional ranking is not in my consideration as the "best" team. But that doesn't matter. What matters is they are the champion.
06-29-2017 08:54 AM
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GoldenWarrior11 Online
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Post: #447
RE: Could UConn swing football independence and Big East for everything else?
(06-29-2017 08:54 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 07:00 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 12:59 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  We watch to support our schools, regional favorites, friends, family and associates. We watch to see if the best wins or gets upset. That's right we watch for upsets because the best team doesn't always win, like in 1983. 03-hissyfit 03-banghead

Where was I? 03-weeping Oh yeah, we watch for a number of reasons and that's among the biggest. We literally watch March Madness to see the underdogs win because it's fun. Thus for that reason the best team doesn't always win and it's more fun that way. The only sport I can think of off the the top of my head where you more or less see the top team win is European soccer because there's no playoff and they have a round robin schedule. And even that guarantees nothing because of injuries and flukes.

But that's a sport I'd consider the champion to be the best team as compared to the NCAA Tournament, where a 30-win team could be sent home by a flame shooting 3-point team on opening weekend.

Okay name the last NCAA champ that wasn't the best team. Was UNC not the best? Villanova? Duke? How far back until we see one of these hot hands as champ? If that 30 win team loses in the first weekend then clearly they weren't the best team. Winning the NCAA is very hard and only great teams can do it.

This is what I like about the NCAA basketball tournament. The champion may not be the "best" statistically but the champion is the champion like all pro sports.

Looking at seeds: 2014 - (7) Connecticut, 1988 - (6) Kansas, 1985 - (8) Villanova, 1983 - (6) North Carolina St.

I single these out about because, subjectively, a team not given a top-4 seed regional ranking is not in my consideration as the "best" team. But that doesn't matter. What matters is they are the champion.

The NCAA Basketball Tournament is something that just will never be able to be duplicated by the College Football Playoff, which is why it is so special and unique. Football cannot have multiple games played over a single weekend, thus creating the opportunity for more teams to be involved with the playoff. Basketball will always provide opportunity to the small schools and Cinderellas, not only because the contract stipulates that more the foreseeable future, but also because there is a demand for it by the fans. With football, there will never be as a great a market for an Alabama/Arkansas State tournament matchup or an Ohio State/Western Kentucky not because fans won't be interested in it, but because the logistics won't work. You can't do a true conference champions-style postseason tournament because - with 10 FBS conferences - that's at least four additional weeks of games, or another month, of football. For the national champion, they would play up to - potentially - 16 or 17 games in a season, which is as many as the NFL. For the Alabamas, Clemsons, Florida States, Ohio States, there's no need to open it up to more because they already get the exposure and revenue that they want.

It's yet another reason I feel that we are trending towards a P4 and an elimination of the P5. With the P4, you can have the conference championship act as a defacto quarterfinal, and then you have eight teams in the conversation instead of just four. The G5 would effectively be locked out, but the writing has been on the wall on that front for years now. A P4 would allow the G5 to stage their own postseason college football playoff and get a little extra revenue for their product (albeit on a much lower scale than what the P4 would get).
06-29-2017 10:58 AM
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Eldonabe Offline
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Post: #448
RE: Could UConn swing football independence and Big East for everything else?
(06-29-2017 10:58 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  It's yet another reason I feel that we are trending towards a P4 and an elimination of the P5. With the P4, you can have the conference championship act as a defacto quarterfinal, and then you have eight teams in the conversation instead of just four. The G5 would effectively be locked out, but the writing has been on the wall on that front for years now. A P4 would allow the G5 to stage their own postseason college football playoff and get a little extra revenue for their product (albeit on a much lower scale than what the P4 would get).


FFS - I get that the P conferences will dominate an 8 team playoff structure, but to say the G conferences will be effectively be locked out is just dumb. As long as there is at least 8 teams, the G conferences can and should have a chance if the resume deserves it. Why does this have to be so GD hard?

Is it fair to say that the P conferences will probably occupy all 8 spots a high majority of the time - of course it it, but the door would now be reasonably open to get a G team in when it is earned.

Other than "homer" fandom everyone else wants to see the 4 or 8 or 10 or 12 best teams try to win the "playoff tournament". If Houston finished last year with only 1 loss and that Oklahoma win under their belt, they would (and should) have been in an 8 team playoff - you know, if it existed.
06-30-2017 08:18 AM
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Post: #449
RE: Could UConn swing football independence and Big East for everything else?
(06-30-2017 08:18 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  
(06-29-2017 10:58 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  It's yet another reason I feel that we are trending towards a P4 and an elimination of the P5. With the P4, you can have the conference championship act as a defacto quarterfinal, and then you have eight teams in the conversation instead of just four. The G5 would effectively be locked out, but the writing has been on the wall on that front for years now. A P4 would allow the G5 to stage their own postseason college football playoff and get a little extra revenue for their product (albeit on a much lower scale than what the P4 would get).


FFS - I get that the P conferences will dominate an 8 team playoff structure, but to say the G conferences will be effectively be locked out is just dumb. As long as there is at least 8 teams, the G conferences can and should have a chance if the resume deserves it. Why does this have to be so GD hard?

Is it fair to say that the P conferences will probably occupy all 8 spots a high majority of the time - of course it it, but the door would now be reasonably open to get a G team in when it is earned.

Other than "homer" fandom everyone else wants to see the 4 or 8 or 10 or 12 best teams try to win the "playoff tournament". If Houston finished last year with only 1 loss and that Oklahoma win under their belt, they would (and should) have been in an 8 team playoff - you know, if it existed.

Yeah, goldenshower-warrior was wrong when he said an "8 team playoff would cut out the G5"---only in his dreams.
06-30-2017 08:25 AM
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billyjack Offline
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Post: #450
RE: Could UConn swing football independence and Big East for everything else?
"...Is it fair to say that the P conferences will probably occupy all 8 spots a high majority of the time - of course it is, but the door would now be reasonably open to get a G team in when it is earned..."

"...but to say the G conferences will be effectively be locked out is just dumb"

So a high majority of the time (high majority is 75%? 80%? 90%? So 3 out of 4 years? 4 out of 5? 9 out of 10?) the P's will occupy all 8 spots, but it would be dumb to consider that being locked out?

The G's would be happy getting 1 team accepted into an 8-team field every 4 years? Wow.

The P's have been consistent through the years:
- to go to extremes to make as much money as possible, and to steamroll over anyone and anything in their path to do this... whether it's screwing fans, conference-mates, rivalries, and definitely the G's.

Absolutely do not trust these P5 ******* to show any fairness or sympathy to the G's. Why trust that they'll be fair in considering a borderline AAC team? Why concede that Houston or whoever must be trapped by having to avoid more than 1 loss, and even then there'd be no guarantee, because the P-5 ******* are deciding whether it's earned... and doesn't the current playoff rating system have a secret formula that the G's can manipulate? It's like chickens assuming that the foxes guarding their henhouse will be fair.

So to me the G's should e pro-active and campaign at a minimum for 1 guaranteed spot each year once they move to an 8 team playoff.
06-30-2017 10:08 AM
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Eldonabe Offline
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Post: #451
RE: Could UConn swing football independence and Big East for everything else?
(06-30-2017 10:08 AM)billyjack Wrote:  "...Is it fair to say that the P conferences will probably occupy all 8 spots a high majority of the time - of course it is, but the door would now be reasonably open to get a G team in when it is earned..."

"...but to say the G conferences will be effectively be locked out is just dumb"

So a high majority of the time (high majority is 75%? 80%? 90%? So 3 out of 4 years? 4 out of 5? 9 out of 10?) the P's will occupy all 8 spots, but it would be dumb to consider that being locked out?

The G's would be happy getting 1 team accepted into an 8-team field every 4 years? Wow.

The P's have been consistent through the years:
- to go to extremes to make as much money as possible, and to steamroll over anyone and anything in their path to do this... whether it's screwing fans, conference-mates, rivalries, and definitely the G's.

Absolutely do not trust these P5 ******* to show any fairness or sympathy to the G's. Why trust that they'll be fair in considering a borderline AAC team? Why concede that Houston or whoever must be trapped by having to avoid more than 1 loss, and even then there'd be no guarantee, because the P-5 ******* are deciding whether it's earned... and doesn't the current playoff rating system have a secret formula that the G's can manipulate? It's like chickens assuming that the foxes guarding their henhouse will be fair.

So to me the G's should e pro-active and campaign at a minimum for 1 guaranteed spot each year once they move to an 8 team playoff.

You are probably right - I am sure the G teams would get muscled out of an 8 team set up too and I am sure the P's would have some really convenient excuse to for it.

However, Maybe I have too much trust, but if the "committee" is independently choosing the playoff grouping - and as of right now I think they actually do - the BEST 4 or 8 or whatever teams will be in the playoff. There should be NO guaranteed spot for anyone - that would be disingenuous to the best X number of teams theory.
06-30-2017 10:16 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #452
RE: Could UConn swing football independence and Big East for everything else?
(06-30-2017 10:08 AM)billyjack Wrote:  "...Is it fair to say that the P conferences will probably occupy all 8 spots a high majority of the time - of course it is, but the door would now be reasonably open to get a G team in when it is earned..."

"...but to say the G conferences will be effectively be locked out is just dumb"

So a high majority of the time (high majority is 75%? 80%? 90%? So 3 out of 4 years? 4 out of 5? 9 out of 10?) the P's will occupy all 8 spots, but it would be dumb to consider that being locked out?

The G's would be happy getting 1 team accepted into an 8-team field every 4 years? Wow.

The P's have been consistent through the years:
- to go to extremes to make as much money as possible, and to steamroll over anyone and anything in their path to do this... whether it's screwing fans, conference-mates, rivalries, and definitely the G's.

Absolutely do not trust these P5 ******* to show any fairness or sympathy to the G's. Why trust that they'll be fair in considering a borderline AAC team? Why concede that Houston or whoever must be trapped by having to avoid more than 1 loss, and even then there'd be no guarantee, because the P-5 ******* are deciding whether it's earned... and doesn't the current playoff rating system have a secret formula that the G's can manipulate? It's like chickens assuming that the foxes guarding their henhouse will be fair.

So to me the G's should e pro-active and campaign at a minimum for 1 guaranteed spot each year once they move to an 8 team playoff.

The problem I see here is that the P5 would require that their champs be AQ if they go to 8. The cost of that move from an anti trust standpoint would likley be to make the top G5 conference champ AQ as well (basically treating the other 5 conferences as a single entity for CFP purposes).
06-30-2017 10:51 AM
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Eldonabe Offline
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Post: #453
RE: Could UConn swing football independence and Big East for everything else?
(06-30-2017 10:51 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The problem I see here is that the P5 would require that their champs be AQ if they go to 8. The cost of that move from an anti trust standpoint would likley be to make the top G5 conference champ AQ as well (basically treating the other 5 conferences as a single entity for CFP purposes).

As currently constructed the conference champion of each P 5 would probably make it anyways in an 8 team scenario. Unless you have one conference who just beat the crap out of itself in a given year and they ended up with a 3 or 4 loss champ???

The unintended consequence of the AQ for a power conference would be that they each added another round of their own conference tournament so their top 4 could win the conf champ game. IT just turns into the endless hamster wheel of more games and teams.....



An independent group chooses the best X number of teams using whatever metric they see fit needed to separate that group from the rest each year. The public will be the judge and jury as that committee has to explain it each year and they will sniff out politics and hold the committee accountable for that. If you take that subjectivity away you will hurt the G teams because the P teams will figure out how to freeze them out and avoid giving them games to help them. This method keeps them honest in that they cannot just schedule the Umass' of the world for their entire OOC because it MIGHT hurt their case - conversely - the G's will get opportunities to build their own cases.

With an 8 team playoff you are in essence "guaranteeing" 1 team from each P conference so what is there for them to complain about that does not come off as greedy rich get richer argument in public perception.


We all like nice neat formulas to make this all a black and white argument - but that formula doesn't exist so why fight it. Let the committee make the decision and back up their reasoning. They want the best product for a football tournament too.....
(This post was last modified: 06-30-2017 11:46 AM by Eldonabe.)
06-30-2017 11:45 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #454
RE: Could UConn swing football independence and Big East for everything else?
(06-30-2017 11:45 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  
(06-30-2017 10:51 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The problem I see here is that the P5 would require that their champs be AQ if they go to 8. The cost of that move from an anti trust standpoint would likley be to make the top G5 conference champ AQ as well (basically treating the other 5 conferences as a single entity for CFP purposes).

As currently constructed the conference champion of each P 5 would probably make it anyways in an 8 team scenario. Unless you have one conference who just beat the crap out of itself in a given year and they ended up with a 3 or 4 loss champ???

The unintended consequence of the AQ for a power conference would be that they each added another round of their own conference tournament so their top 4 could win the conf champ game. IT just turns into the endless hamster wheel of more games and teams.....



An independent group chooses the best X number of teams using whatever metric they see fit needed to separate that group from the rest each year. The public will be the judge and jury as that committee has to explain it each year and they will sniff out politics and hold the committee accountable for that. If you take that subjectivity away you will hurt the G teams because the P teams will figure out how to freeze them out and avoid giving them games to help them. This method keeps them honest in that they cannot just schedule the Umass' of the world for their entire OOC because it MIGHT hurt their case - conversely - the G's will get opportunities to build their own cases.

With an 8 team playoff you are in essence "guaranteeing" 1 team from each P conference so what is there for them to complain about that does not come off as greedy rich get richer argument in public perception.


We all like nice neat formulas to make this all a black and white argument - but that formula doesn't exist so why fight it. Let the committee make the decision and back up their reasoning. They want the best product for a football tournament too.....

Make the committee 10 members with one member each from the FBS conferences and I'd be fine with that. The current committee composition has proven to be too biased and dismissive of any G5 candidate to be taken seriously. Most any serious sports journalist will tell you a G5 candidate really has no chance with these committees comprised of members that are handpicked by the P5. Moving to 8 wouldnt really change much. I mean, last year a G5 went undefeated and found itself out of the top 10, ranked behind every 3-loss P5, and ranked behind one FOUR loss P5. That tells you all you really need to know.
(This post was last modified: 06-30-2017 07:03 PM by Attackcoog.)
06-30-2017 06:58 PM
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megadrone Offline
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Post: #455
RE: Could UConn swing football independence and Big East for everything else?
(06-30-2017 06:58 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Make the committee 10 members with one member each from the FBS conferences and I'd be fine with that. The current committee composition has proven to be too biased and dismissive of any G5 candidate to be taken seriously. Most any serious sports journalist will tell you a G5 candidate really has no chance with these committees comprised of members that are handpicked by the P5. Moving to 8 wouldnt really change much. I mean, last year a G5 went undefeated and found itself out of the top 10, ranked behind every 3-loss P5, and ranked behind one FOUR loss P5. That tells you all you really need to know.

Which is why you need automatic qualifiers, and that would take any playoff or tournament to 12 teams. The only metric used for ranking the top 8 schools would keep a G conference champion out -- just like Tulane in 1998.

A G team has to be truly dominant in every aspect of the game to break the top 10 -- mostly because you just don't know how good those teams actually are. Those teams usually only have their OOC schedule to show how good they are against good to great teams, if their schedule aligns with a great or undefeated season. If they are playing the bulk of their schedule against teams in the lower third of Sagarin rankings, they may be dominant because their opposition is just not good. Or they may be dominant because they are the best in the country. The room for doubt works against a G conference team 99% of the time.

We have a long way to go to get to a 12 team tournament, and that includes abolishing the bowl system in my opinion. The 4 team playoff, with the access slot, could become a top 7/P5 champs with 2 at-large and access slot if the playoff goes to 8 teams. But a G conference team won't sniff an at-large in that system either.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2017 09:06 AM by megadrone.)
07-01-2017 09:02 AM
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Eldonabe Offline
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Post: #456
RE: Could UConn swing football independence and Big East for everything else?
(06-30-2017 06:58 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(06-30-2017 11:45 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  
(06-30-2017 10:51 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The problem I see here is that the P5 would require that their champs be AQ if they go to 8. The cost of that move from an anti trust standpoint would likley be to make the top G5 conference champ AQ as well (basically treating the other 5 conferences as a single entity for CFP purposes).

As currently constructed the conference champion of each P 5 would probably make it anyways in an 8 team scenario. Unless you have one conference who just beat the crap out of itself in a given year and they ended up with a 3 or 4 loss champ???

The unintended consequence of the AQ for a power conference would be that they each added another round of their own conference tournament so their top 4 could win the conf champ game. IT just turns into the endless hamster wheel of more games and teams.....



An independent group chooses the best X number of teams using whatever metric they see fit needed to separate that group from the rest each year. The public will be the judge and jury as that committee has to explain it each year and they will sniff out politics and hold the committee accountable for that. If you take that subjectivity away you will hurt the G teams because the P teams will figure out how to freeze them out and avoid giving them games to help them. This method keeps them honest in that they cannot just schedule the Umass' of the world for their entire OOC because it MIGHT hurt their case - conversely - the G's will get opportunities to build their own cases.

With an 8 team playoff you are in essence "guaranteeing" 1 team from each P conference so what is there for them to complain about that does not come off as greedy rich get richer argument in public perception.


We all like nice neat formulas to make this all a black and white argument - but that formula doesn't exist so why fight it. Let the committee make the decision and back up their reasoning. They want the best product for a football tournament too.....

Make the committee 10 members with one member each from the FBS conferences and I'd be fine with that. The current committee composition has proven to be too biased and dismissive of any G5 candidate to be taken seriously. Most any serious sports journalist will tell you a G5 candidate really has no chance with these committees comprised of members that are handpicked by the P5. Moving to 8 wouldnt really change much. I mean, last year a G5 went undefeated and found itself out of the top 10, ranked behind every 3-loss P5, and ranked behind one FOUR loss P5. That tells you all you really need to know.

Why do you say that? It was a 4 team tournament and the best 4 teams were all P5 teams. Frankly who give a schidt who number 5 - 25 are. The only 4 that matter at the 4 playing for the cup.

Until they actually keep an honest to goodness top 4 G team out of the playoff, bias is tough to prove.
07-01-2017 01:12 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #457
RE: Could UConn swing football independence and Big East for everything else?
(07-01-2017 01:12 PM)Eldonabe Wrote:  
(06-30-2017 06:58 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(06-30-2017 11:45 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  
(06-30-2017 10:51 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The problem I see here is that the P5 would require that their champs be AQ if they go to 8. The cost of that move from an anti trust standpoint would likley be to make the top G5 conference champ AQ as well (basically treating the other 5 conferences as a single entity for CFP purposes).

As currently constructed the conference champion of each P 5 would probably make it anyways in an 8 team scenario. Unless you have one conference who just beat the crap out of itself in a given year and they ended up with a 3 or 4 loss champ???

The unintended consequence of the AQ for a power conference would be that they each added another round of their own conference tournament so their top 4 could win the conf champ game. IT just turns into the endless hamster wheel of more games and teams.....



An independent group chooses the best X number of teams using whatever metric they see fit needed to separate that group from the rest each year. The public will be the judge and jury as that committee has to explain it each year and they will sniff out politics and hold the committee accountable for that. If you take that subjectivity away you will hurt the G teams because the P teams will figure out how to freeze them out and avoid giving them games to help them. This method keeps them honest in that they cannot just schedule the Umass' of the world for their entire OOC because it MIGHT hurt their case - conversely - the G's will get opportunities to build their own cases.

With an 8 team playoff you are in essence "guaranteeing" 1 team from each P conference so what is there for them to complain about that does not come off as greedy rich get richer argument in public perception.


We all like nice neat formulas to make this all a black and white argument - but that formula doesn't exist so why fight it. Let the committee make the decision and back up their reasoning. They want the best product for a football tournament too.....

Make the committee 10 members with one member each from the FBS conferences and I'd be fine with that. The current committee composition has proven to be too biased and dismissive of any G5 candidate to be taken seriously. Most any serious sports journalist will tell you a G5 candidate really has no chance with these committees comprised of members that are handpicked by the P5. Moving to 8 wouldnt really change much. I mean, last year a G5 went undefeated and found itself out of the top 10, ranked behind every 3-loss P5, and ranked behind one FOUR loss P5. That tells you all you really need to know.

Why do you say that? It was a 4 team tournament and the best 4 teams were all P5 teams. Frankly who give a schidt who number 5 - 25 are. The only 4 that matter at the 4 playing for the cup.

Until they actually keep an honest to goodness top 4 G team out of the playoff, bias is tough to prove.

A) My comments were made in the context of an 8 team playoff.

B) Exactly what would a "honest to goodness" G5 playoff team exactly look like? Given scheduling limitations of being in G5 conference, about the best a G5 can do is go undefeated, win the CCG, and have 2 P5 wins. That just happened and it wasn't even good enough to make the top 10 or edge out every 4 loss P5 team. I know some believe Houston would have made the playoff if they had won out---but I dont see anything that indicates that is true. When an undefeated G5 with 2 P5 wins cant get into the top 10 (or even past a 4-loss P5)-----its abundantly clear there is no G5 road to the CFP. There is a systemic problem with the current committee composition. Thats simply not arguable. It is what it is.
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2017 12:06 PM by Attackcoog.)
07-01-2017 02:34 PM
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Eldonabe Offline
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Post: #458
RE: Could UConn swing football independence and Big East for everything else?
(07-01-2017 02:34 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  A) My comments were made in the context of an 8 team playoff.

B) Exactly what would a "honest to goodness" G5 playoff team exactly look like? Given scheduling limitations of being in G5 conference, about the best a G5 can do is go undefeated, win the CCG, and have 2 P5 wins. That just happened and it was'nt even good enough to make the top 10 or edge out every 4 loss P5 team. I know some believe Houston would have made the playoff if they won out---but I done see anything that indicates that is true. When an undefeated G5 with 2 P5 wins cant get inot the top 10 (or even past a 4-loss P5)-----its abundantly clear there is no G5 road to the CFP. There is a systemic problem with the current committee composition. Thats simply not arguable. It is what it is.

Point A - fair.

Point B - Like I said until a G team is in the conversation for whatever the total number of teams that make the playoff is AND gets left out it is hard to argue. I do get your point, but it has not happened - yet.

This is EXACTLY what the NCAA wants - people to spend their time talking about this stuff - talk about free marketing.....
07-03-2017 07:20 AM
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megadrone Offline
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Post: #459
RE: Could UConn swing football independence and Big East for everything else?
(07-01-2017 01:12 PM)Eldonabe Wrote:  
(06-30-2017 06:58 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(06-30-2017 11:45 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  
(06-30-2017 10:51 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The problem I see here is that the P5 would require that their champs be AQ if they go to 8. The cost of that move from an anti trust standpoint would likley be to make the top G5 conference champ AQ as well (basically treating the other 5 conferences as a single entity for CFP purposes).

As currently constructed the conference champion of each P 5 would probably make it anyways in an 8 team scenario. Unless you have one conference who just beat the crap out of itself in a given year and they ended up with a 3 or 4 loss champ???

The unintended consequence of the AQ for a power conference would be that they each added another round of their own conference tournament so their top 4 could win the conf champ game. IT just turns into the endless hamster wheel of more games and teams.....



An independent group chooses the best X number of teams using whatever metric they see fit needed to separate that group from the rest each year. The public will be the judge and jury as that committee has to explain it each year and they will sniff out politics and hold the committee accountable for that. If you take that subjectivity away you will hurt the G teams because the P teams will figure out how to freeze them out and avoid giving them games to help them. This method keeps them honest in that they cannot just schedule the Umass' of the world for their entire OOC because it MIGHT hurt their case - conversely - the G's will get opportunities to build their own cases.

With an 8 team playoff you are in essence "guaranteeing" 1 team from each P conference so what is there for them to complain about that does not come off as greedy rich get richer argument in public perception.


We all like nice neat formulas to make this all a black and white argument - but that formula doesn't exist so why fight it. Let the committee make the decision and back up their reasoning. They want the best product for a football tournament too.....

Make the committee 10 members with one member each from the FBS conferences and I'd be fine with that. The current committee composition has proven to be too biased and dismissive of any G5 candidate to be taken seriously. Most any serious sports journalist will tell you a G5 candidate really has no chance with these committees comprised of members that are handpicked by the P5. Moving to 8 wouldnt really change much. I mean, last year a G5 went undefeated and found itself out of the top 10, ranked behind every 3-loss P5, and ranked behind one FOUR loss P5. That tells you all you really need to know.

Why do you say that? It was a 4 team tournament and the best 4 teams were all P5 teams. Frankly who give a schidt who number 5 - 25 are. The only 4 that matter at the 4 playing for the cup.

Until they actually keep an honest to goodness top 4 G team out of the playoff, bias is tough to prove.

And it might be bias, or might not. If a G team goes undefeated, AND happens to have a year where the OOC schedule aligns right, then maybe you can make the claim that bias kept them out. Maybe you can't. Maybe the day they won against a good P5 school, they needed luck/questionable call/true fluke to do so. Maybe that's enough to cast doubt in the true ranking. And that's all that's needed to exclude them.

It would have been interesting this year if Houston ran the table and looked like a steamroller doing so. It would have been the proving ground. We have to wait for the stars to align again.
07-03-2017 09:46 AM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #460
RE: Could UConn swing football independence and Big East for everything else?
(06-30-2017 10:51 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(06-30-2017 10:08 AM)billyjack Wrote:  "...Is it fair to say that the P conferences will probably occupy all 8 spots a high majority of the time - of course it is, but the door would now be reasonably open to get a G team in when it is earned..."

"...but to say the G conferences will be effectively be locked out is just dumb"

So a high majority of the time (high majority is 75%? 80%? 90%? So 3 out of 4 years? 4 out of 5? 9 out of 10?) the P's will occupy all 8 spots, but it would be dumb to consider that being locked out?

The G's would be happy getting 1 team accepted into an 8-team field every 4 years? Wow.

The P's have been consistent through the years:
- to go to extremes to make as much money as possible, and to steamroll over anyone and anything in their path to do this... whether it's screwing fans, conference-mates, rivalries, and definitely the G's.

Absolutely do not trust these P5 ******* to show any fairness or sympathy to the G's. Why trust that they'll be fair in considering a borderline AAC team? Why concede that Houston or whoever must be trapped by having to avoid more than 1 loss, and even then there'd be no guarantee, because the P-5 ******* are deciding whether it's earned... and doesn't the current playoff rating system have a secret formula that the G's can manipulate? It's like chickens assuming that the foxes guarding their henhouse will be fair.

So to me the G's should e pro-active and campaign at a minimum for 1 guaranteed spot each year once they move to an 8 team playoff.

The problem I see here is that the P5 would require that their champs be AQ if they go to 8. The cost of that move from an anti trust standpoint would likley be to make the top G5 conference champ AQ as well (basically treating the other 5 conferences as a single entity for CFP purposes).

Attack, we have been waiting for this anti trust stuff to save the day for us since 1998 (BCS was created) they didn't do the right thing then. They won't now.
07-04-2017 01:45 PM
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