Newbies suggesting that The SEC could invite anyone from The ACC before 2035 don't understand how a GOR works or ESPN's role in expansion. Why would ESPN pay more for properties it already controls? The reality is no one is going anywhere for 20 years.

Expansion is for all practical purposes is dead unless it involves Notre Dame (not ever happening) or Big 12 refugees.

I can't tell if suggestions that The SEC or The ACC would ever invite a program directly from CUSA are serious or not.
CJ

If Boise, Houston, Cincinnati, UCONN, etc. can't get a P5 invite I don't see how Charlotte can get one.

(06-22-2017 11:42 AM)opossum Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 10:16 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  The Charlotte metro college fan base is predominately UNC fans. I'd put the number at 75-80%. Adding UNCC to get another 5-10% would be detrimental for all the reasons others have mentioned.

In addition to UNC, they have to compete with NC State, Wake, Duke, Clemson and even USC for fans. Plus they have the Hornets and Panthers to contend with.

I know their location close to the South Carolina border means UNC-C would have to compete with Clemson and Carolina fans, but that cuts both ways. Charlotte is obviously larger but I think adding UNC-C would only help the ACC in the Greenville-Spartanburg market with Carolina being the only nearby SEC school vs. two in the ACC.

Greenville-Spartanburg is probably 90% Clemson, 10% USC. Adding UNCC doesn't increase the ACC or SEC percentages for either location.

(06-26-2017 10:14 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 11:42 AM)opossum Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 10:16 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  The Charlotte metro college fan base is predominately UNC fans. I'd put the number at 75-80%. Adding UNCC to get another 5-10% would be detrimental for all the reasons others have mentioned.

In addition to UNC, they have to compete with NC State, Wake, Duke, Clemson and even USC for fans. Plus they have the Hornets and Panthers to contend with.

I know their location close to the South Carolina border means UNC-C would have to compete with Clemson and Carolina fans, but that cuts both ways. Charlotte is obviously larger but I think adding UNC-C would only help the ACC in the Greenville-Spartanburg market with Carolina being the only nearby SEC school vs. two in the ACC.

Greenville-Spartanburg is probably 90% Clemson, 10% USC. Adding UNCC doesn't increase the ACC or SEC percentages for either location.

So just adding Carolina would be enough?

(06-26-2017 10:14 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 11:42 AM)opossum Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 10:16 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  The Charlotte metro college fan base is predominately UNC fans. I'd put the number at 75-80%. Adding UNCC to get another 5-10% would be detrimental for all the reasons others have mentioned.

In addition to UNC, they have to compete with NC State, Wake, Duke, Clemson and even USC for fans. Plus they have the Hornets and Panthers to contend with.

I know their location close to the South Carolina border means UNC-C would have to compete with Clemson and Carolina fans, but that cuts both ways. Charlotte is obviously larger but I think adding UNC-C would only help the ACC in the Greenville-Spartanburg market with Carolina being the only nearby SEC school vs. two in the ACC.

Greenville-Spartanburg is probably 90% Clemson, 10% USC. Adding UNCC doesn't increase the ACC or SEC percentages for either location.

90-10??? Have you ever been in that area? Maybe 60-40 and the farther west you go (towards Clemson) the higher the difference. Honestly I doubt the entire metro is even 60-40.

(06-26-2017 10:08 PM)Ewglenn Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 10:14 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 11:42 AM)opossum Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 10:16 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  The Charlotte metro college fan base is predominately UNC fans. I'd put the number at 75-80%. Adding UNCC to get another 5-10% would be detrimental for all the reasons others have mentioned.

In addition to UNC, they have to compete with NC State, Wake, Duke, Clemson and even USC for fans. Plus they have the Hornets and Panthers to contend with.

I know their location close to the South Carolina border means UNC-C would have to compete with Clemson and Carolina fans, but that cuts both ways. Charlotte is obviously larger but I think adding UNC-C would only help the ACC in the Greenville-Spartanburg market with Carolina being the only nearby SEC school vs. two in the ACC.

Greenville-Spartanburg is probably 90% Clemson, 10% USC. Adding UNCC doesn't increase the ACC or SEC percentages for either location.

90-10??? Have you ever been in that area? Maybe 60-40 and the farther west you go (towards Clemson) the higher the difference. Honestly I doubt the entire metro is even 60-40.

If UNC-Charlotte was in the Southeastern Conference, I'm sure they'd draw in fans from the northern parts of Greenville-Spartanburg, if not the whole area. It may currently be ACC country (with Clemson between 60% and 90% and to a much lesser degree Wake, UNC-Chapel Hill, Duke, and State), but if the SEC had UNC-Charlotte and USC-Columbia it seems the ACC would be less competitive in not only the Charlotte market but also the Greenville-Spartanburg market. Adding UNC-Charlotte would preempt this. I think that was the original poster's point.

(06-26-2017 10:48 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 10:08 PM)Ewglenn Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 10:14 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 11:42 AM)opossum Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 10:16 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  The Charlotte metro college fan base is predominately UNC fans. I'd put the number at 75-80%. Adding UNCC to get another 5-10% would be detrimental for all the reasons others have mentioned.

In addition to UNC, they have to compete with NC State, Wake, Duke, Clemson and even USC for fans. Plus they have the Hornets and Panthers to contend with.

I know their location close to the South Carolina border means UNC-C would have to compete with Clemson and Carolina fans, but that cuts both ways. Charlotte is obviously larger but I think adding UNC-C would only help the ACC in the Greenville-Spartanburg market with Carolina being the only nearby SEC school vs. two in the ACC.

Greenville-Spartanburg is probably 90% Clemson, 10% USC. Adding UNCC doesn't increase the ACC or SEC percentages for either location.

90-10??? Have you ever been in that area? Maybe 60-40 and the farther west you go (towards Clemson) the higher the difference. Honestly I doubt the entire metro is even 60-40.

If UNC-Charlotte was in the Southeastern Conference, I'm sure they'd draw in fans from the northern parts of Greenville-Spartanburg, if not the whole area. It may currently be ACC country (with Clemson between 60% and 90% and to a much lesser degree Wake, UNC-Chapel Hill, Duke, and State), but if the SEC had UNC-Charlotte and USC-Columbia it seems the ACC would be less competitive in not only the Charlotte market but also the Greenville-Spartanburg market. Adding UNC-Charlotte would preempt this. I think that was the original poster's point.

UNC-Charlotte isn't much more than a footnote in their home market. Thee might be twelve 49ers fans total in the Greenville-Spartanburg-Anderson market.

(06-26-2017 10:59 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 10:48 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 10:08 PM)Ewglenn Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 10:14 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 11:42 AM)opossum Wrote:  I know their location close to the South Carolina border means UNC-C would have to compete with Clemson and Carolina fans, but that cuts both ways. Charlotte is obviously larger but I think adding UNC-C would only help the ACC in the Greenville-Spartanburg market with Carolina being the only nearby SEC school vs. two in the ACC.

Greenville-Spartanburg is probably 90% Clemson, 10% USC. Adding UNCC doesn't increase the ACC or SEC percentages for either location.

90-10??? Have you ever been in that area? Maybe 60-40 and the farther west you go (towards Clemson) the higher the difference. Honestly I doubt the entire metro is even 60-40.

If UNC-Charlotte was in the Southeastern Conference, I'm sure they'd draw in fans from the northern parts of Greenville-Spartanburg, if not the whole area. It may currently be ACC country (with Clemson between 60% and 90% and to a much lesser degree Wake, UNC-Chapel Hill, Duke, and State), but if the SEC had UNC-Charlotte and USC-Columbia it seems the ACC would be less competitive in not only the Charlotte market but also the Greenville-Spartanburg market. Adding UNC-Charlotte would preempt this. I think that was the original poster's point.

UNC-Charlotte isn't much more than a footnote in their home market. Thee might be twelve 49ers fans total in the Greenville-Spartanburg-Anderson market.

UNC-Charlotte just started in FBS. They may be a footnote now but the ceiling is the roof.

(06-26-2017 11:08 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 10:59 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 10:48 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 10:08 PM)Ewglenn Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 10:14 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  Greenville-Spartanburg is probably 90% Clemson, 10% USC. Adding UNCC doesn't increase the ACC or SEC percentages for either location.

90-10??? Have you ever been in that area? Maybe 60-40 and the farther west you go (towards Clemson) the higher the difference. Honestly I doubt the entire metro is even 60-40.

If UNC-Charlotte was in the Southeastern Conference, I'm sure they'd draw in fans from the northern parts of Greenville-Spartanburg, if not the whole area. It may currently be ACC country (with Clemson between 60% and 90% and to a much lesser degree Wake, UNC-Chapel Hill, Duke, and State), but if the SEC had UNC-Charlotte and USC-Columbia it seems the ACC would be less competitive in not only the Charlotte market but also the Greenville-Spartanburg market. Adding UNC-Charlotte would preempt this. I think that was the original poster's point.

UNC-Charlotte isn't much more than a footnote in their home market. Thee might be twelve 49ers fans total in the Greenville-Spartanburg-Anderson market.

UNC-Charlotte just started in FBS. They may be a footnote now but the ceiling is the roof.

In 25 years they'll be lucky to match your own school's pathetic attendance.

(06-26-2017 11:43 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 11:08 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 10:59 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 10:48 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 10:08 PM)Ewglenn Wrote:  90-10??? Have you ever been in that area? Maybe 60-40 and the farther west you go (towards Clemson) the higher the difference. Honestly I doubt the entire metro is even 60-40.

If UNC-Charlotte was in the Southeastern Conference, I'm sure they'd draw in fans from the northern parts of Greenville-Spartanburg, if not the whole area. It may currently be ACC country (with Clemson between 60% and 90% and to a much lesser degree Wake, UNC-Chapel Hill, Duke, and State), but if the SEC had UNC-Charlotte and USC-Columbia it seems the ACC would be less competitive in not only the Charlotte market but also the Greenville-Spartanburg market. Adding UNC-Charlotte would preempt this. I think that was the original poster's point.

UNC-Charlotte isn't much more than a footnote in their home market. Thee might be twelve 49ers fans total in the Greenville-Spartanburg-Anderson market.

UNC-Charlotte just started in FBS. They may be a footnote now but the ceiling is the roof.

In 25 years they'll be lucky to match your own school's pathetic attendance.

I agree that matching Duke or Clemson's level of brand appeal in the revenue sports may be too much to expect, but UNC-Charlotte's potential upside has to be considered. Look how well UNC-Chapel Hill his done in a much smaller town.

(06-26-2017 11:55 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 11:43 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 11:08 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 10:59 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 10:48 PM)opossum Wrote:  If UNC-Charlotte was in the Southeastern Conference, I'm sure they'd draw in fans from the northern parts of Greenville-Spartanburg, if not the whole area. It may currently be ACC country (with Clemson between 60% and 90% and to a much lesser degree Wake, UNC-Chapel Hill, Duke, and State), but if the SEC had UNC-Charlotte and USC-Columbia it seems the ACC would be less competitive in not only the Charlotte market but also the Greenville-Spartanburg market. Adding UNC-Charlotte would preempt this. I think that was the original poster's point.

UNC-Charlotte isn't much more than a footnote in their home market. Thee might be twelve 49ers fans total in the Greenville-Spartanburg-Anderson market.

UNC-Charlotte just started in FBS. They may be a footnote now but the ceiling is the roof.

In 25 years they'll be lucky to match your own school's pathetic attendance.

I agree that matching Duke or Clemson's level of brand appeal in the revenue sports may be too much to expect, but UNC-Charlotte's potential upside has to be considered. Look how well UNC-Chapel Hill his done in a much smaller town.

Just because your school is in a large market doesn't mean you'll have the fan support. UNCC doesn't have the alumni to be competitive. They are a new school that is lucky they aren't playing FCS ball.

Adding UNC-Charlotte to the ACC would literally bring in thousands of dollars and hundreds of fans.

It's obvious that at least some fans don't want A&M in the same conference with Texas or Oklahoma again but that the SEC wants them badly. Compromise?

SEC adds Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Oklahoma State & TT for 18.

ACC adds A&M, TCU, ND & WV for 18.

The SEC still locks down Texas while the ACC still gets a slice of it without a heavy western expansion. A&M still isn't in a conference with Texas or Oklahoma while Oklahoma is still in a conference with the Longhorns & Cowboys. Longhorns & Aggies could become another SEC/ACC rivalry. Kansas & Missouri are reunited & 7 B12 teams are still placed. The ACC finally gets ND fully & picks up 4 passionate football fan bases. ACC gets in the Houston & Dallas markets. Texas recruiting is opened up to the ACC. A&M gets teams like ND, FSU & Clemson on their schedule & has the entire east coast opened up to them.

SEC
West- Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Oklahoma State, TT, Arkansas

Central- Alabama, LSU, Tennessee, Ole Miss, Miss State, Kentucky

East- Florida, Georgia, Auburn, SC, Missouri, Vanderbilt

ACC
South- FSU, Clemson, A&M, TCU, NC State, WF

North- ND, Miami, Pittsburgh, Louisville, Syracuse, BC

Central- NC, VT, GT, WV, Duke, Virginia

We both play our 5 divisional games plus 1 permanent rival & 1 from the other divisions for 8 conferences games. More realistic?

(06-26-2017 10:08 PM)Ewglenn Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 10:14 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 11:42 AM)opossum Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 10:16 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  The Charlotte metro college fan base is predominately UNC fans. I'd put the number at 75-80%. Adding UNCC to get another 5-10% would be detrimental for all the reasons others have mentioned.

In addition to UNC, they have to compete with NC State, Wake, Duke, Clemson and even USC for fans. Plus they have the Hornets and Panthers to contend with.

I know their location close to the South Carolina border means UNC-C would have to compete with Clemson and Carolina fans, but that cuts both ways. Charlotte is obviously larger but I think adding UNC-C would only help the ACC in the Greenville-Spartanburg market with Carolina being the only nearby SEC school vs. two in the ACC.

Greenville-Spartanburg is probably 90% Clemson, 10% USC. Adding UNCC doesn't increase the ACC or SEC percentages for either location.

90-10??? Have you ever been in that area? Maybe 60-40 and the farther west you go (towards Clemson) the higher the difference. Honestly I doubt the entire metro is even 60-40.

I'll accept 60-40. The times I have been there it seemed overwhelmingly Clemson. What ever the percentages, adding UNCC doesn't help the SEC or ACC.

(07-03-2017 09:54 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 10:08 PM)Ewglenn Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 10:14 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 11:42 AM)opossum Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 10:16 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  The Charlotte metro college fan base is predominately UNC fans. I'd put the number at 75-80%. Adding UNCC to get another 5-10% would be detrimental for all the reasons others have mentioned.

In addition to UNC, they have to compete with NC State, Wake, Duke, Clemson and even USC for fans. Plus they have the Hornets and Panthers to contend with.

I know their location close to the South Carolina border means UNC-C would have to compete with Clemson and Carolina fans, but that cuts both ways. Charlotte is obviously larger but I think adding UNC-C would only help the ACC in the Greenville-Spartanburg market with Carolina being the only nearby SEC school vs. two in the ACC.

Greenville-Spartanburg is probably 90% Clemson, 10% USC. Adding UNCC doesn't increase the ACC or SEC percentages for either location.

90-10??? Have you ever been in that area? Maybe 60-40 and the farther west you go (towards Clemson) the higher the difference. Honestly I doubt the entire metro is even 60-40.

I'll accept 60-40. The times I have been there it seemed overwhelmingly Clemson. What ever the percentages, adding UNCC doesn't help the SEC or ACC.

I think the potential effect of major or "power" conference affiliation on the size and depth of a school like UNC-Charlotte's fanbase is being overlooked to some degree. Consider how much more popular South Carolina has been in the SEC (and was in the ACC) compared to their years as an independent. Or FSU's success as an ACC member.

But to be fair, the main appeal of adding UNC-Charlotte and South Carolina is not entirely dependent on additional football fans or revenue.

(07-03-2017 01:33 PM)opossum Wrote:  I think the potential effect of major or "power" conference affiliation on the size and depth of a school like UNC-Charlotte's fanbase is being overlooked to some degree. Consider how much more popular South Carolina has been in the SEC (and was in the ACC) compared to their years as an independent. Or FSU's success as an ACC member.

But to be fair, the main appeal of adding UNC-Charlotte and South Carolina is not entirely dependent on additional football fans or revenue.

I was under the impression that South Carolina virtually sold out Williams-Brice Stadium as an independent. I don't think being in the SEC has had much impact on number of fans in the stands (although maybe they charge a higher price for tickets now).

Teams either have a fan following or they don't. Joining a conference WILL have an effect, but I think it takes a LONG time... so I'd say NO to UNC-C if it was up to me.

(06-26-2017 10:08 PM)Ewglenn Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 10:14 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  Greenville-Spartanburg is probably 90% Clemson, 10% USC. Adding UNCC doesn't increase the ACC or SEC percentages for either location.

90-10??? Have you ever been in that area? Maybe 60-40 and the farther west you go (towards Clemson) the higher the difference. Honestly I doubt the entire metro is even 60-40.

90-10 is woefully off.

If I had to ballpark it:

30% Clemson
20% USC-East
20% Small local (Wofford, Furman, USC Upstate)
10% Other ACC (Georgia Tech, NC State, Duke, UNC, Florida State mostly)
10% Other SEC (Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama mostly)
10% Transplants (Ohio State, Michigan, Pedo State, MAC schools, etc)

Greenville seems to be trending up for Clemson, but S Carolina probably still has as many or more fans there, and Spartanburg has more Gamecocks than Tigers (it seems to me)

(07-03-2017 05:43 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Greenville seems to be trending up for Clemson, but S Carolina probably still has as many or more fans there, and Spartanburg has more Gamecocks than Tigers (it seems to me)

The bandwagon is out in full force. There's no exaggeration to say they hold a double digit lead throughout GSP when you factor in all the cars with no other signs than a brand new "National Champions" sticker.