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University of Illinois upgrading Club Hockey to D1?
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #41
RE: University of Illinois upgrading Club Hockey to D1?
(06-30-2017 08:30 PM)Mav Wrote:  There's absolutely no way UND or UNO would want to give up their presence in Minnesota. I doubt the NCHC will either expand or contract, the Summit has any interest in starting hockey, or UND would want to break off and start a conference that's even more top-heavy than the old CCHA was.

Correct.

The schools in the Summit that have NCHC hockey (UND, Omaha, Denver) as well as any possible schools that would join the Summit in the future and would have NCHC hockey (Duluth, St Cloud, Mankato, perhaps CC despite what others say), all are by far and wide primarily (men's) hockey driven athletics depts ... UND being a bit of an exception with FCS football, but still true.

And so, the NCHC is what's the most important to them. But I think the Summit could be a place for them to "share" in on NCHC hockey rivalries, in other sports.
07-01-2017 04:19 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #42
RE: University of Illinois upgrading Club Hockey to D1?
(07-01-2017 04:19 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(06-30-2017 08:30 PM)Mav Wrote:  There's absolutely no way UND or UNO would want to give up their presence in Minnesota. I doubt the NCHC will either expand or contract, the Summit has any interest in starting hockey, or UND would want to break off and start a conference that's even more top-heavy than the old CCHA was.

Correct.

The schools in the Summit that have NCHC hockey (UND, Omaha, Denver) as well as any possible schools that would join the Summit in the future and would have NCHC hockey (Duluth, St Cloud, Mankato, perhaps CC despite what others say), all are by far and wide primarily (men's) hockey driven athletics depts ... UND being a bit of an exception with FCS football, but still true.

And so, the NCHC is what's the most important to them. But I think the Summit could be a place for them to "share" in on NCHC hockey rivalries, in other sports.

Our fans are more excited by Omaha and Denver, because of hockey, than either South Dakota. Sioux Falls is trying to have invitational college hockey tournaments and regionals because their constituents create a demand and it a good tourism vehicle.
07-01-2017 04:27 PM
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Mav Offline
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Post: #43
RE: University of Illinois upgrading Club Hockey to D1?
(07-01-2017 04:27 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(07-01-2017 04:19 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(06-30-2017 08:30 PM)Mav Wrote:  There's absolutely no way UND or UNO would want to give up their presence in Minnesota. I doubt the NCHC will either expand or contract, the Summit has any interest in starting hockey, or UND would want to break off and start a conference that's even more top-heavy than the old CCHA was.

Correct.

The schools in the Summit that have NCHC hockey (UND, Omaha, Denver) as well as any possible schools that would join the Summit in the future and would have NCHC hockey (Duluth, St Cloud, Mankato, perhaps CC despite what others say), all are by far and wide primarily (men's) hockey driven athletics depts ... UND being a bit of an exception with FCS football, but still true.

And so, the NCHC is what's the most important to them. But I think the Summit could be a place for them to "share" in on NCHC hockey rivalries, in other sports.

Our fans are more excited by Omaha and Denver, because of hockey, than either South Dakota. Sioux Falls is trying to have invitational college hockey tournaments and regionals because their constituents create a demand and it a good tourism vehicle.
Sioux Falls would have to invite UND every year in order to even break even on it. The only way I could see it work is making it some sort of regional NCHC-WCHA challenge or making it a vehicle for UND and UMTC to renew their rivalry.
07-03-2017 04:24 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #44
RE: University of Illinois upgrading Club Hockey to D1?
(07-03-2017 04:24 PM)Mav Wrote:  
(07-01-2017 04:27 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(07-01-2017 04:19 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(06-30-2017 08:30 PM)Mav Wrote:  There's absolutely no way UND or UNO would want to give up their presence in Minnesota. I doubt the NCHC will either expand or contract, the Summit has any interest in starting hockey, or UND would want to break off and start a conference that's even more top-heavy than the old CCHA was.

Correct.

The schools in the Summit that have NCHC hockey (UND, Omaha, Denver) as well as any possible schools that would join the Summit in the future and would have NCHC hockey (Duluth, St Cloud, Mankato, perhaps CC despite what others say), all are by far and wide primarily (men's) hockey driven athletics depts ... UND being a bit of an exception with FCS football, but still true.

And so, the NCHC is what's the most important to them. But I think the Summit could be a place for them to "share" in on NCHC hockey rivalries, in other sports.

Our fans are more excited by Omaha and Denver, because of hockey, than either South Dakota. Sioux Falls is trying to have invitational college hockey tournaments and regionals because their constituents create a demand and it a good tourism vehicle.
Sioux Falls would have to invite UND every year in order to even break even on it. The only way I could see it work is making it some sort of regional NCHC-WCHA challenge or making it a vehicle for UND and UMTC to renew their rivalry.

The tickets in Grand Forks for this years UND-Minnesota series are priced at $99 each per game. They are also priced at $99 for Las Vegas next year. That wouldn't happen in Sioux Falls. Sioux Falls attracts very good crowds for their pre-NCAA USHL team.
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2017 06:34 PM by NoDak.)
07-03-2017 06:01 PM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Post: #45
RE: University of Illinois upgrading Club Hockey to D1?
Just a little information on the Pitt thing.

First of all, hockey has long been very popular here – at least for the past quarter century. Even when the Penguins were talking about moving to Kansas City or even Hamilton, it had nothing to do with local fan interest. That's why the NHL fraught so hard to keep the team in Pittsburgh.

Now, and for a very long time, Pittsburgh routinely draws the best television ratings in the country. They are always neck and neck with Buffalo as the top to American markets for ratings not involving the local team's games.

It was because the Penguins had an owner, Howard Baldwin, who was a moron and ran the franchise into the ground. He and former co-owner Roger Marino fought very publicly over the direction of the team. It was horrendously corrosive and nearly ruined the organization. They also alienated local officials along the way. The Pens were probably not going to get a new arena had Baldwin not sold the team to Mario Lemieux and Ron Burkle.

There's definitely interest in hockey here beyond Penguins hockey.

As for facilities, I don't think there is room to build one on Pitt's campus. Remember, Pitt is an urban institution and land is scarce even if they wanted to build an arena. They would have to play off campus. Interestingly, the Penguins are said to be bidding for the opportunity to refurbish a local armory – which is in Shady Side, a very nice neighborhood about 2 miles from campus. Also, that would be a very small venue - which would be best. That's the most intriguing option, IMO.

Also, PPG Paints Arena is just 3 miles in the other direction. That's less appealing to me because even if they partitioned off the top part of the arena, there is no way Pitt is ever going to consistently sell 9,000 seats for hockey.

The final option would be to play in the Penguins' new training facility, north of the city, but that's about 24 miles from campus and would be a real challenge. However, like the Hunt Armory, that too would be a smaller venue – which is preferable.

Hunt Armory
http://www.post-gazette.com/business/dev...1610060089

http://www.nextpittsburgh.com/city-desig...tes-ahead/

UPMC Lemieux Sports Complex
http://www.post-gazette.com/video/?v=4422444363001

PPG Paints Arena
https://www.google.com/amp/pittsburgh.cb...erway/amp/
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2017 07:17 PM by Dr. Isaly von Yinzer.)
07-03-2017 07:09 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #46
RE: University of Illinois upgrading Club Hockey to D1?
Would be cavernous, I understand, but is there any chance to have an ice sheet in Petersen?
(This post was last modified: 07-04-2017 09:32 AM by MplsBison.)
07-04-2017 09:32 AM
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gosports1 Offline
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Post: #47
RE: University of Illinois upgrading Club Hockey to D1?
does Robert morris draw crowds for hockey?
07-04-2017 11:03 AM
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Renandpat Offline
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Post: #48
RE: University of Illinois upgrading Club Hockey to D1?
(07-04-2017 09:32 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Would be cavernous, I understand, but is there any chance to have an ice sheet in Petersen?

The wood floor is permanent. Plus those five court side suites prevent that side of the arena pose an issue with width.


http://web-smg.athletics.pitt.edu/about/about.html

The Zoo side does retract, so it could be wide enough. Ice plant still needed.
Watch this floor install.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Owzj9kY0SwU&app=desktop
(This post was last modified: 07-04-2017 12:07 PM by Renandpat.)
07-04-2017 11:59 AM
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jrj84105 Offline
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Post: #49
RE: University of Illinois upgrading Club Hockey to D1?
(06-23-2017 01:23 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Some schools like Utah, UNLV, Colorado and Arizona already have workable minor league stadiums near them, so they wouldn't be quite as expensive. But agree with what you wrote.

I get the impression that we'll stay in the current venue when (not if) we move up.
[Image: IMG_3776_zpshihwi2bi.png]

I think they'll take the lower capacity (2500) and campus proximity rather than go cross town.
07-04-2017 12:41 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #50
RE: University of Illinois upgrading Club Hockey to D1?
(07-04-2017 11:03 AM)gosports1 Wrote:  does Robert morris draw crowds for hockey?

They only have like a 2k seat arena and mostly avg under 1000.

Their league is probaby the worst in DI.
07-04-2017 12:54 PM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Post: #51
RE: University of Illinois upgrading Club Hockey to D1?
(07-04-2017 09:32 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Would be cavernous, I understand, but is there any chance to have an ice sheet in Petersen?

No, the Pete is a short floor arena. It would take millions of dollars in renovations and it would still probably not work. That is not an option. It's predecessor, the Fitzgerald Fieldhouse, is right next to it and probably could be made into a hockey arena, but that's not going to happen either. Right now, the Fieldhouse hosts a bunch of Olympic sports like volleyball, wrestling, etc.
07-05-2017 09:52 AM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Post: #52
RE: University of Illinois upgrading Club Hockey to D1?
(07-04-2017 11:03 AM)gosports1 Wrote:  does Robert morris draw crowds for hockey?

Robert Morris draws about 1000 fans per game. Interestingly, they too play in a facility located a few miles off-campus. It's called the Island Sports Center and it is a little further from RMU than either the Hunt Armory or PPG Paints Arena are from Pitt.

http://rmuislandsports.org/about-us/ice-operations

However, you have to understand that Robert Morris is a small, private university. It's a very different circumstance than Pitt - which is the region's top employer among other things. Also, the Colonials play in a very poor league. There are no marquee names in that league to attract casual fans. If Pitt were to do this, they would definitely do it with the understanding that they would be joining either the Big Ten (hockey only) or more likely Hockey East. That's a whole other kettle of fish with names like Boston College, Providence, Connecticut, Boston University, etc. regularly coming to town.

I think if you put Pitt hockey in a relatively small arena near the campus – like the Hunt Armory plan – that could be very successful. However, if you put them in a large arena like PPG Paints or if you move them a half an hour north in Cranberry, then it becomes more problematic for them.
(This post was last modified: 07-05-2017 10:12 AM by Dr. Isaly von Yinzer.)
07-05-2017 10:02 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #53
RE: University of Illinois upgrading Club Hockey to D1?
(07-05-2017 09:52 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  No, the Pete is a short floor arena. It would take millions of dollars in renovations and it would still probably not work. That is not an option. It's predecessor, the Fitzgerald Fieldhouse, is right next to it and probably could be made into a hockey arena, but that's not going to happen either. Right now, the Fieldhouse hosts a bunch of Olympic sports like volleyball, wrestling, etc.

Complete aside: I think there must still be a decent sized cadre of Pitt fans who cringe at the loss of Pitt Stadium, regardless how nice Petersen is, no?
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2017 09:00 AM by MplsBison.)
07-05-2017 07:21 PM
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puck swami Offline
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Post: #54
RE: University of Illinois upgrading Club Hockey to D1?
A few more possibilities:

- Nebraska's newish basketball arena can support ice, and there is already a suitable new practice rink on campus. The Huskers could be competitive very quickly, and there is lots of money in that athletic dept.

- Texas Tech has an ice-capable 8,000 seat arena on its campus (but owned by the City of Lubbock.
07-08-2017 09:46 PM
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Renandpat Offline
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Post: #55
RE: University of Illinois upgrading Club Hockey to D1?
(07-08-2017 09:46 PM)puck swami Wrote:  A few more possibilities:

- Nebraska's newish basketball arena can support ice, and there is already a suitable new practice rink on campus. The Huskers could be competitive very quickly, and there is lots of money in that athletic dept.

- Texas Tech has an ice-capable 8,000 seat arena on its campus (but owned by the City of Lubbock.

Not many folks in Lubbock will care about ice hockey at all. Any ice plant is to attract Feld Entertainment's programs like Disney on Ice.
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2017 09:54 AM by Renandpat.)
07-09-2017 12:30 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #56
RE: University of Illinois upgrading Club Hockey to D1?
I'm certain the Big Ten will have any of its schools startup hockey programs, and try to sell them to college hockey fans via BTN.

If Omaha can have a successful program, then so can Nebraska and Iowa.
07-09-2017 09:02 AM
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Mav Offline
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Post: #57
RE: University of Illinois upgrading Club Hockey to D1?
(07-08-2017 09:46 PM)puck swami Wrote:  A few more possibilities:

- Nebraska's newish basketball arena can support ice, and there is already a suitable new practice rink on campus. The Huskers could be competitive very quickly, and there is lots of money in that athletic dept.

- Texas Tech has an ice-capable 8,000 seat arena on its campus (but owned by the City of Lubbock.
Nebraska won't consider hockey until football and baseball are nationally relevant and basketball gets out of being a cellar-dweller. Until then, they view hockey as watering down an already underperforming set of men's sports.
07-09-2017 10:09 AM
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el_norte Offline
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Post: #58
RE: University of Illinois upgrading Club Hockey to D1?
If five schools get studied, here is my short list.

Illinois (already chosen)
- A B1G and flagship university in a massive hockey state that has zero varsity hockey programs. Their club team is very successful with a great following (ala Penn State.) Their new master plan shows a new ice arena. Illinois previously had a D1 team in the 30's and 40's.

Rutgers
- Another B1G/flagship school in a huge hockey state with only one current varsity program (Princeton.) Good club program with a following. They are in the midst of a major building campaign to catch up with their new peers in the B1G. A new arena should be in the works, hopefully including ice options?

Syracuse
- Flagship school in the heart of the college hockey world. Maybe ice could be considered in the Carrier Dome renovation plans? Maybe this would draw more interest from ACC schools like ASU has done in the PAC12?
Syracuse had a team until 1940.

Marquette
- I know Wisconsin isn't as big of a hockey state as some of it's neighbors, but they can probably handle more than the one program they currently have. Marquette had a team in the 20's and 30's and it's location would seem to be a positive for fan support. If not Marquette, UW-Milwaukee or UW-GB?

Ohio
- Ohio had a team in the 70's and I would be interested in seeing what a feasibility study would show for a MAC program. I wouldn't be very optimistic about the possible results because of the much smaller resources available to MAC schools, but if a study showed a chance to make it happen then maybe a door opens to other schools like Northern Illinois (see my Illinois section above), Toledo, Akron/Kent St, or Buffalo.

If schools from the west need to be included I would like to see Oregon or Utah looked at.
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2017 10:31 AM by el_norte.)
07-09-2017 10:15 AM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Post: #59
RE: University of Illinois upgrading Club Hockey to D1?
(07-05-2017 07:21 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(07-05-2017 09:52 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  No, the Pete is a short floor arena. It would take millions of dollars in renovations and it would still probably not work. That is not an option. It's predecessor, the Fitzgerald Fieldhouse, is right next to it and probably could be made into a hockey arena, but that's not going to happen either. Right now, the Fieldhouse hosts a bunch of Olympic sports like volleyball, wrestling, etc.

Complete aside: I think there must still be a decent sized cadre of Pitt fans who cringe at the loss of Pitt Stadium, regardless how nice Petersen is, no?

Oh, there's no doubt about that. Hell, I'm one of them. I think they could have and ABSOLUTELY SHOULD HAVE renovated old Pitt Stadium (est. 1925) and they would have been better off.

There are lots of places where you can put a basketball arena but not too many places - especially on an urban campus - that can accommodate a huge football stadium and surrounding parking lot. In fact, I've been thinking about the issue for years and I'm not aware of any such location. It would require hundreds of millions of dollars worth of land acquisition, site preparation and facilities construction just to do a bare-bones effort. It was a tragically shortsighted and near permanent mistake.

However, what's done is done now and there's no use crying over spilt milk.
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2017 12:18 PM by Dr. Isaly von Yinzer.)
07-09-2017 12:17 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #60
RE: University of Illinois upgrading Club Hockey to D1?
Yeah, it would seem to be a similar situation to Cincy with Nippert, except they've decided to keep their OCS and resisted the urge to move to the NFL stadium for all games.
07-09-2017 12:27 PM
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