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OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
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Potomac Offline
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Post: #21
RE: OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
(08-25-2017 12:01 PM)TXGiant Wrote:  It's not a ridiculous extreme. I think you're premise needs to be amended to, "No one is going after James Madison YET."

Are you aware that Robert E Lee himself opposed the concept of a confederate momument?

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/robe...monuments/

“As regards the erection of such a monument as is contemplated,” Lee wrote of an 1866 proposal, “my conviction is, that however grateful it would be to the feelings of the South, the attempt in the present condition of the Country, would have the effect of retarding, instead of accelerating its accomplishment; [and] of continuing, if not adding to, the difficulties under which the Southern people labour.”

“Lee believed countries that erased visible signs of civil war recovered from conflicts quicker,” Horn said. “He was worried that by keeping these symbols alive, it would keep the divisions alive.”
08-25-2017 12:10 PM
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bcp_jmu Online
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Post: #22
RE: OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
i'm not sure why i should feel bad about anything in my post... i'm looking at it objectively, and wondering where does it stop? and what is gained? Short-term emotional satisfaction...but there are STILL many social injustices and systematic problems, and A-holes out there.... let's put the effort into those issues.

It's not like NEW memorials are being erected or the confederacy .... i'm very open to learn from anyone who has been offended by the names Maury, Moody, Jackson, Wilson, etc

where does it stop? MLK was against gay marriage - time to bring down his memorial?
(This post was last modified: 08-25-2017 12:20 PM by bcp_jmu.)
08-25-2017 12:19 PM
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JMUSteeler Offline
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Post: #23
RE: OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
Major publications are already taking up the debate of removing statues and tributes to slave-holding Founding Fathers, though right now I think most of what you'll find are Op-Ed type pieces. Way too early to say this whole affair won't gradually shift in that direction though, it certainly will if more rational minds don't intervene and prevail.
08-25-2017 12:20 PM
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Potomac Offline
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Post: #24
RE: OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
Many historical figures had and will continue to have their flaws. These particular historical figures were openly rebelling against the United States of America and continue to be rallying points for racists across America. That is the key difference between Lee and Madison. Madison was also the father of constitution, a document that far too many Americans don't truly take seriously.
(This post was last modified: 08-25-2017 12:26 PM by Potomac.)
08-25-2017 12:21 PM
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TXGiant Offline
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Post: #25
RE: OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
Yes. And I believe context is important in that case as well as the context under which the majority of the confederate soldiers fought. When Lee was quoted, the "wounds" from the war were still fresh and healing was, indeed, paramount. For the record, my direct lineage fought in the civil war- for the UNION.

In the 1850's there were many still alive that weren't far removed from fighting for our country's freedom. For many the threat of the North imposing a strong Federal government was akin to losing the freedom either they or their relatives had fought for. Was the right to own slaves ONE of the issues that was fueling the war? Yes. Was it the only issue? No. The majority of those soldiers did not own slaves.

It is a complicated issue. IF changes are made on campus I think they should be carefully examined not hastily rushed into as a reaction to the current climate.
08-25-2017 12:22 PM
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Potomac Offline
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Post: #26
RE: OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
(08-25-2017 12:20 PM)JMUSteeler Wrote:  Major publications are already taking up the debate of removing statues and tributes to slave-holding Founding Fathers, though right now I think most of what you'll find are Op-Ed type pieces. Way too early to say this whole affair won't gradually shift in that direction though, it certainly will if more rational minds don't intervene and prevail.

100% opposed to removing anything pertaining to a past US president. They had their flaws but they all contributed to our society.
08-25-2017 12:25 PM
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Potomac Offline
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Post: #27
RE: OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
(08-25-2017 12:22 PM)TXGiant Wrote:  It is a complicated issue. IF changes are made on campus I think they should be carefully examined not hastily rushed into as a reaction to the current climate.

Yep I 100% agree here. I'm not even saying change the names, although I think they were likely given those names as confederate pride was likely a staple of Harrisonburg in 1908. I believe Wilson was the president in the year the building was built.

The peak of confederate monuments being erected was in two separate periods predominantly. Around 1900, when Jim Crow laws were being pushed throughout the south and in the 1950s and 60s during the civil rights movements. Those weren't coincidences.
08-25-2017 12:33 PM
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Halz87 Online
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Post: #28
RE: OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
I will stay out of this one, I have had enough ideological fights recently. I will say a Thank You to POTOMAC for speaking on my philosophical behalf.
08-25-2017 12:54 PM
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olderduke Offline
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Post: #29
RE: OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
(08-25-2017 11:33 AM)Potomac Wrote:  
(08-25-2017 10:44 AM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  Woodrow Wilson supported KKK...

Trump supports the KKK, so I guess that makes it all okay now?
Horsesh*t

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08-25-2017 01:01 PM
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olderduke Offline
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Post: #30
RE: OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
(08-25-2017 11:53 AM)Potomac Wrote:  
(08-25-2017 11:47 AM)jjthebutcher Wrote:  Can we please move this thread to OT now. I'm sick of hearing about this and now this has the potential to get nasty with the above comments. I'd prefer to come here and talk sports.

I'm all in favor of that. I avoid political topics and wish others would be bothered to extend the same courtesy to other posters. Hburg has to move or remove threads ultimately.
You're all in favor of it but made an absolutely moronic comment about Trump supporting the KKK. Do you need him to come directly to you to tell you what a pile of deuce that is?

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08-25-2017 01:03 PM
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91Alum Offline
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Post: #31
RE: OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
Cognitive dissonance much?

Potomac this morning:
Quote:Trump supports the KKK, so I guess that makes it all okay now?

Potomac exactly 20 minutes later:
Quote:I'm all in favor of that. I avoid political topics and wish others would be bothered to extend the same courtesy to other posters.
08-25-2017 01:08 PM
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Potomac Offline
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Post: #32
RE: OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
Did I start the thread?
08-25-2017 01:10 PM
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olderduke Offline
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Post: #33
RE: OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
(08-25-2017 01:10 PM)Potomac Wrote:  Did I start the thread?
You certainly pushed it along.

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08-25-2017 01:12 PM
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91Alum Offline
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Post: #34
RE: OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
(08-25-2017 01:10 PM)Potomac Wrote:  Did I start the thread?

You didn't start it, but I dare say you didn't "avoid" it either. There are ~33 posts in this thread. You wrote 9 of them.
08-25-2017 01:21 PM
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Potomac Offline
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Post: #35
RE: OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
(08-25-2017 01:21 PM)91Alum Wrote:  
(08-25-2017 01:10 PM)Potomac Wrote:  Did I start the thread?

You didn't start it, but I dare say you didn't "avoid" it either. There are ~33 posts in this thread. You wrote 9 of them.

Sorry. I just can't lay off of certain types of posts once they exist without providing them with more appropriate context. That ironically is the entire point of this argument to begin with.
08-25-2017 01:31 PM
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91Alum Offline
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Post: #36
RE: OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
(08-25-2017 01:31 PM)Potomac Wrote:  
(08-25-2017 01:21 PM)91Alum Wrote:  
(08-25-2017 01:10 PM)Potomac Wrote:  Did I start the thread?

You didn't start it, but I dare say you didn't "avoid" it either. There are ~33 posts in this thread. You wrote 9 of them.

Sorry. I just can't lay off of certain types of posts once they exist without providing them with more appropriate context. That ironically is the entire point of this argument to begin with.

No worries here. It seems obvious from the thread's title what it's about, and I figure if folks want to discuss it (you included), then why not? I see band threads (as an example) all the time on here, and since I don't know (or care) about it, I usually avoid those. The ones that look interesting to me, I read.

I do have some thoughts on this name/statue topic I'll try to share a bit later. I'm absolutely certain you'll disagree with every one of them, but what fun is it arguing with people who agree with you?. ;-)
08-25-2017 01:44 PM
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JMURocks Offline
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Post: #37
RE: OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
Ideally these types of OT threads would be moved to the "Off Topic" forum. I have personal opinions on this too, but come here primarily to discuss JMU Sports.

Thankfully there aren't too many of these threads at the moment cluttering up the board.
08-25-2017 01:51 PM
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BDKJMU Offline
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Post: #38
RE: OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
(08-25-2017 11:33 AM)Potomac Wrote:  
(08-25-2017 10:44 AM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  Woodrow Wilson supported KKK...

Trump supports the KKK, so I guess that makes it all okay now?

What is this, make retarded statements day? I know you're trolling, but ok, I'll play along.

Trump supports the KKK like Obama was a foreign born muslim. See how easy that is?
08-25-2017 01:51 PM
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DolleyMadison Offline
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Post: #39
RE: OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
(08-25-2017 01:31 PM)Potomac Wrote:  
(08-25-2017 01:21 PM)91Alum Wrote:  
(08-25-2017 01:10 PM)Potomac Wrote:  Did I start the thread?

You didn't start it, but I dare say you didn't "avoid" it either. There are ~33 posts in this thread. You wrote 9 of them.

Sorry. I just can't lay off of certain types of posts once they exist without providing them with more appropriate context. That ironically is the entire point of this argument to begin with.

But isn't the context you're providing just your opinion of the topic? Why is the context in which others have expressed their views not equally as valid?
08-25-2017 01:57 PM
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Potomac Offline
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Post: #40
RE: OT: Goodbye Jackson, Ashby, Maury etc etc etc ...
(08-25-2017 01:57 PM)DolleyMadison Wrote:  But isn't the context you're providing just your opinion of the topic? Why is the context in which others have expressed their views not equally as valid?

A valid point. At the end of the day, each "side" believes they are right and nothing will make them think otherwise.

I try to support myself with facts and research. I may have flaws in my point but I do make an attempt to be accurate.

My trump comment was opinion, sure. I based on it past evidence right from the subject's mouth though.
(This post was last modified: 08-25-2017 02:03 PM by Potomac.)
08-25-2017 02:00 PM
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