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(04-16-2018 04:19 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 03:36 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 03:22 PM)monarx Wrote:  The only possibility of the east side having any redeeming value is if it goes by the airport on its way to the base.

Perhaps ODU/EVMS or HRT could make a nice dedicated shuttle or trolley that makes a loop from FT Norfolk/EVMS/LRT Station up Colley Ave to NoCo, make a left on 49th street, then go left on Hampton Blvd with a stop near Chelsea, the hospital and then complete the circuit to the LRT station. If they could make it so that ran every 20 minutes or so, it might actually be convenient. Especially if it synched with the LRT arrival times.

That'd be a decent consolation prize for no LRT spur, though timing it with LRT arrivals would be tricky with traffic, especially during rush hours.

Up here in Rosslyn, Georgetown wants very much to connect the two neighborhoods with a gondola over the Potomac. Maybe that's an option!

I hear Georgetown is adamantly against a metro stop because they are afraid of all the riff raff it would supposedly bring in. Thats just silly... like VB being against LRT for the same reason.

That has changed; apparently the NIMBY attitude in Georgetown has evaporated and now they very much want some way to connect to DMV transit besides buses in heavy traffic. A K Street streetcar didn't make it, and while there's plans to eventually put two stations in Georgetown (one near GU, one further east), that's not happening for a long time. A bus-only lane on the Key Bridge is a likely nonstarter. So the figure a gondola is the quickest, most cost-effective way to improve mass transit to the neighborhood. But Rosslyn planners aren't buying yet.

(04-16-2018 05:06 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  What metro line would Georgetown even tap into? The orange, silver, and blue lines already stop at Foggy Bottom and creating a 3/4 mile line just to have rail going into Georgetown would be of no additional benefit, IMO.

That said, with the millions of foot traffic walking through the shops lined up on M Street/Georgetown, I believe there is plenty of everything already present--all the "riff raff" one can handle, with shopping bags in hand too. But that ferry from the G'town waterfront to Rosslyn is going to happen.

The plan is to build a second Rosslyn station and Potomac tunnel, then run the Blue and Yellow lines through that and into Georgetown while keeping the Orange and Silver on its current paths. They're aiming at a 2040 completion date but even that's probably too optimistic at this point.

I take the connector bus from union Station when I have to go to Georgetown, but it takes forever and therefore I only go when I have to.

(04-16-2018 05:32 PM)monarx Wrote:  I take the connector bus from union Station when I have to go to Georgetown, but it takes forever and therefore I only go when I have to.

Georgetown definitely could use something that they don't have to wait 20+ years for. I sometimes use the Circulator that runs from Rosslyn to Union Station but I also don't travel during peak hours because I work a second shift. Navigating the Key Bridge or M Street in any vehicle during rush is a nightmare wrapped in a horror show.

The way the city of Norfolk treats the Light Rail makes me extremely frustrated. I think it could be a major boon for the area but they keep making these kinds of decisions. I think they're going to face a very steep PR battle to get this plan put into place, and when it's there I don't think it'll really carry an impact until about 10-20 years. I really really don't like it at all.

(04-16-2018 03:22 PM)monarx Wrote:  The only possibility of the east side having any redeeming value is if it goes by the airport on its way to the base.

As long as it goes to the terminal. HRT and Norfolk can't say "The Tide goes to the airport!" if all it does is roll down Military Highway and have a stop at Norview Ave. That is still a solid mile away.

(04-17-2018 06:26 AM)ODU2K1 Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 03:22 PM)monarx Wrote:  The only possibility of the east side having any redeeming value is if it goes by the airport on its way to the base.

As long as it goes to the terminal. HRT and Norfolk can't say "The Tide goes to the airport!" if all it does is roll down Military Highway and have a stop at Norview Ave. That is still a solid mile away.

I totally agree. If you cant pick it up at the terminal then its worthless as far as being transit to and from the airport. If all they do is a line from the base, down Military to 264 and then make a turn to Downtown/Hospital I'm afraid it will be a colossal failure. I supported the idea of going from the Base down Hampton Blvd to Downtown, to Town Center and the Oceanfront. I still supported the idea of going the reduced route from the Hospital to Downtown to Town Center. But I just cant see how this new idea will attract riders. I guess we will see.

Agreed. If you can't get off a plane and walk to it, it's not going to the airport.

Posted from mobile device. Hopefully it's coherent.

I'm a supporter of light rail in Tidewater, though I've also seen some fairly persuasive arguments that mass transit is going to look much different in the years ahead as autonomous vehicles begin to take to the streets, and at some point rail isn't going to be worth the effort. But this isn't ever going to work as a one-city system, even if they put stations in every neighborhood and at every point of interest Norfolk has. It sucks that VB voters rejected it — I think it's very short-sighted on their part and that there at the very least should be a non-motor vehicular way to get people from downtown to Town Center — but once they did, they basically drove a stake in the heart of light rail. Portsmouth and the Peninsula need tunnels that aren't happening, and Chesapeake I thought was on board but nothing's ever come of it. I don't think you walk away from the sunk costs, and certainly that's not how they're progressing, but I am very skeptical of light rail's future here, barring an unexpected 180 from the Beach.

(04-17-2018 10:49 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I'm a supporter of light rail in Tidewater, though I've also seen some fairly persuasive arguments that mass transit is going to look much different in the years ahead as autonomous vehicles begin to take to the streets, and at some point rail isn't going to be worth the effort. But this isn't ever going to work as a one-city system, even if they put stations in every neighborhood and at every point of interest Norfolk has. It sucks that VB voters rejected it — I think it's very short-sighted on their part and that there at the very least should be a non-motor vehicular way to get people from downtown to Town Center — but once they did, they basically drove a stake in the heart of light rail. Portsmouth and the Peninsula need tunnels that aren't happening, and Chesapeake I thought was on board but nothing's ever come of it. I don't think you walk away from the sunk costs, and certainly that's not how they're progressing, but I am very skeptical of light rail's future here, barring an unexpected 180 from the Beach.

It was never going to work in VB as a commuter option. The population is way too spread out and much of it is a good 10-20 minute drive to the tracks. At that point, you might as well stay in the car. Taking it to the Oceanfront may have produced ridership, but I don't think VB wants to make it easy for tourist to leave the Oceanfront and spend their money in Norfolk nor do they want to make it easy for Norfolk people not staying in hotels and eating at restaurants to flood the already overcrowded beach and ruin the quality of the tourists' vacations. This kind of transit requires a large population centered around a central business district. It just isn't for the 757. Norfolk isn't big enough and a train is probably the worst option to get to where people outside of Norfolk live. Even if it goes to the airport, not many people will use it because you will still need to rent a car to get anywhere or do any business outside of Downtown Norfolk.

VB demographics are rapidly shifting. They had one referendum that supported LRT, and a second one didnt. Neither were the slam dunk statements their proponents claim. Its a shame it doesn't go to Town Center now at least. Its also a shame they cant do the western route because that would likely be somewhat successful. If LRT was even mildly successful, that combined with VBs coming demographic shift I could see a third referendum at the beach happening and passing for a best two out of three in favor of LRT. But none of that is any time soon.

http://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/norf...1126275327

Did anyone see this article?

(05-15-2018 12:42 PM)cmett003 Wrote:  http://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/norf...1126275327

Did anyone see this article?

Yes, HRT is just going through the motions to do what they wanted to do all along; build the route along military highway for T.O.D.

The only reason they even studied the westside was because the FTA told them to. They didn't want to build it, so they made sure the data supported their desires.