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Tom Jurich and Rick Pitino fighting back
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Dasville Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Tom Jurich and Rick Pitino fighting back
(11-20-2017 10:41 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  
(11-20-2017 08:26 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  
(11-17-2017 05:28 PM)colohank Wrote:  
(11-17-2017 02:11 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  
(11-15-2017 02:17 PM)colohank Wrote:  Folks in a snit over handling of the scandals at U of L need to acquaint themselves with the concept of vicarious liability. In layman's terms, think of it as **** rolling uphill.


Nobody is in a snit over the handling of the scandals, people are in a snit over how the university terminated Jurich. Nobody expected Postel to come out a lay out the legal case for his termination after the BOT vote but to refuse to answer any questions about it & the chairman sneaking out the side door is unacceptable. You can give generalities & not specifics. They refused to give any comment. Let's not also forget the slander campaign they pushed through the local paper & the fact that their reasons were made public anyway when the letter to Jurich was made public. How about the trustees having misinformation? The legal concept of the university trying to terminate Jurich with cause is understood but that's not what fans are in a snit about. Grissom & Postel actions likely only exacerbated Jurich case against the university.


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I submit that the Jurich's terminaton was a part of the way the university handled the scandals, which occurred and recurred on his watch. Though he may not have been directly involved in unsavory or unlawful shenanigans, he was responsible for the overall administration of the athletic department and in that capacity failed to establish and/or enforce acceptable standards of conduct. Thus, his vicarious liability. He was also insubordinate, according to published accounts, because he refused to fire Pitino when so directed.

Only in Paths of Glory are lowly enlisted men held accountable for failures on the battlefield. In the real world, it's the generals who take the fall when things go south. And who knows? Perhaps more higher-ups will be forced out before the dust settles.


The published account of insubordination that you mentioned only proves my point. According to Postel & Jurich he was never asked or ordered to fire Pitino. That wasn't even in the letter written to Jurich. That is an example of one of the false accounts. Again, no one is saying that Jurich shouldn't have been fired. It was the way it was done.


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Who cares how it was done? Jurich was being paid a ton of money. You take that kind of money; you accept responsibility. Football coaches say there are two kinds of coaches -- those who have been fired and those who will be fired. Getting fired is part of the deal. It's about the same for ADs. It's time for Louisville fans to get over it. Accept reality and move on.

It's called "legacy". If BoT wanted to go in different direction there were about 100 different ways of handling this. The only people treating men's basketball differently than any other sport at UofL in this situation is the BoT and Tom Jurich detractors.
To fire TJ "with cause" made it a legal matter. Pure arrogance and idiocy on POStel and Gruesome's part. Going forward, there is demonstrative evidence that fans (investors really) have little to wary confidence in current leadership.
11-20-2017 11:24 AM
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cuseroc Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Tom Jurich and Rick Pitino fighting back
(11-20-2017 10:41 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  
(11-20-2017 08:26 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  
(11-17-2017 05:28 PM)colohank Wrote:  
(11-17-2017 02:11 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  
(11-15-2017 02:17 PM)colohank Wrote:  Folks in a snit over handling of the scandals at U of L need to acquaint themselves with the concept of vicarious liability. In layman's terms, think of it as **** rolling uphill.


Nobody is in a snit over the handling of the scandals, people are in a snit over how the university terminated Jurich. Nobody expected Postel to come out a lay out the legal case for his termination after the BOT vote but to refuse to answer any questions about it & the chairman sneaking out the side door is unacceptable. You can give generalities & not specifics. They refused to give any comment. Let's not also forget the slander campaign they pushed through the local paper & the fact that their reasons were made public anyway when the letter to Jurich was made public. How about the trustees having misinformation? The legal concept of the university trying to terminate Jurich with cause is understood but that's not what fans are in a snit about. Grissom & Postel actions likely only exacerbated Jurich case against the university.


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I submit that the Jurich's terminaton was a part of the way the university handled the scandals, which occurred and recurred on his watch. Though he may not have been directly involved in unsavory or unlawful shenanigans, he was responsible for the overall administration of the athletic department and in that capacity failed to establish and/or enforce acceptable standards of conduct. Thus, his vicarious liability. He was also insubordinate, according to published accounts, because he refused to fire Pitino when so directed.

Only in Paths of Glory are lowly enlisted men held accountable for failures on the battlefield. In the real world, it's the generals who take the fall when things go south. And who knows? Perhaps more higher-ups will be forced out before the dust settles.


The published account of insubordination that you mentioned only proves my point. According to Postel & Jurich he was never asked or ordered to fire Pitino. That wasn't even in the letter written to Jurich. That is an example of one of the false accounts. Again, no one is saying that Jurich shouldn't have been fired. It was the way it was done.


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Who cares how it was done? Jurich was being paid a ton of money. You take that kind of money; you accept responsibility. Football coaches say there are two kinds of coaches -- those who have been fired and those who will be fired. Getting fired is part of the deal. It's about the same for ADs. It's time for Louisville fans to get over it. Accept reality and move on.

I agree. The more people keep talking about these issues makes it harder for everyone to move on.
11-20-2017 11:32 AM
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HRFlossY Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Tom Jurich and Rick Pitino fighting back
(11-20-2017 10:41 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  Who cares how it was done? Jurich was being paid a ton of money. You take that kind of money; you accept responsibility. Football coaches say there are two kinds of coaches -- those who have been fired and those who will be fired. Getting fired is part of the deal. It's about the same for ADs. It's time for Louisville fans to get over it. Accept reality and move on.

That is TOTALLY where this Louisville fan is at.07-coffee3
I have gotten use to the idea of "cleaning house" and I and looking forward to moving forward!!

FLossY Out...04-wine
11-21-2017 02:02 PM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Post: #44
Tom Jurich and Rick Pitino fighting back
(11-20-2017 11:24 AM)Dasville Wrote:  
(11-20-2017 10:41 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  
(11-20-2017 08:26 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  
(11-17-2017 05:28 PM)colohank Wrote:  
(11-17-2017 02:11 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  Nobody is in a snit over the handling of the scandals, people are in a snit over how the university terminated Jurich. Nobody expected Postel to come out a lay out the legal case for his termination after the BOT vote but to refuse to answer any questions about it & the chairman sneaking out the side door is unacceptable. You can give generalities & not specifics. They refused to give any comment. Let's not also forget the slander campaign they pushed through the local paper & the fact that their reasons were made public anyway when the letter to Jurich was made public. How about the trustees having misinformation? The legal concept of the university trying to terminate Jurich with cause is understood but that's not what fans are in a snit about. Grissom & Postel actions likely only exacerbated Jurich case against the university.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I submit that the Jurich's terminaton was a part of the way the university handled the scandals, which occurred and recurred on his watch. Though he may not have been directly involved in unsavory or unlawful shenanigans, he was responsible for the overall administration of the athletic department and in that capacity failed to establish and/or enforce acceptable standards of conduct. Thus, his vicarious liability. He was also insubordinate, according to published accounts, because he refused to fire Pitino when so directed.

Only in Paths of Glory are lowly enlisted men held accountable for failures on the battlefield. In the real world, it's the generals who take the fall when things go south. And who knows? Perhaps more higher-ups will be forced out before the dust settles.


The published account of insubordination that you mentioned only proves my point. According to Postel & Jurich he was never asked or ordered to fire Pitino. That wasn't even in the letter written to Jurich. That is an example of one of the false accounts. Again, no one is saying that Jurich shouldn't have been fired. It was the way it was done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Who cares how it was done? Jurich was being paid a ton of money. You take that kind of money; you accept responsibility. Football coaches say there are two kinds of coaches -- those who have been fired and those who will be fired. Getting fired is part of the deal. It's about the same for ADs. It's time for Louisville fans to get over it. Accept reality and move on.

It's called "legacy". If BoT wanted to go in different direction there were about 100 different ways of handling this. The only people treating men's basketball differently than any other sport at UofL in this situation is the BoT and Tom Jurich detractors.
To fire TJ "with cause" made it a legal matter. Pure arrogance and idiocy on POStel and Gruesome's part. Going forward, there is demonstrative evidence that fans (investors really) have little to wary confidence in current leadership.


Exactly.

Why should we care? The new leadership isn't installing any confidence in the way that they have been doing business. How can you trust proven liars? You can clean house but what good does it do you if it's still filthy? It's hard to move on when you're still stuck in a swamp, moving in the wrong direction. Let's actually do things the right way for a change & actually restore some integrity to the university. We should care because we still aren't going in the right direction. Blind faith in the leadership is what led us here, why repeat that same mistake?


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(This post was last modified: 11-21-2017 06:00 PM by Lenvillecards.)
11-21-2017 05:59 PM
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Dasville Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Tom Jurich and Rick Pitino fighting back
11-25-2017 04:38 PM
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krux Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Tom Jurich and Rick Pitino fighting back
(11-25-2017 04:38 PM)Dasville Wrote:  Our plaid? Really?

https://mobile.twitter.com/UofLSheriff50...-111065327

OMG get over it. Football team is winning, basketball team is winning, women's hoops is winning. The only coach that's been lost was let go for almost a decade of player abuse Jurich covered up. Support your team and shut up about baseless crap. Tyra has done a good job so far and everything is fine. Chill.

P.S. Who cares what color the turd is wearing? It's about to get flushed down the toilet anyway.
11-25-2017 04:50 PM
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Maize Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Tom Jurich and Rick Pitino fighting back
(11-21-2017 02:02 PM)HRFlossY Wrote:  
(11-20-2017 10:41 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  Who cares how it was done? Jurich was being paid a ton of money. You take that kind of money; you accept responsibility. Football coaches say there are two kinds of coaches -- those who have been fired and those who will be fired. Getting fired is part of the deal. It's about the same for ADs. It's time for Louisville fans to get over it. Accept reality and move on.

That is TOTALLY where this Louisville fan is at.07-coffee3
I have gotten use to the idea of "cleaning house" and I and looking forward to moving forward!!

FLossY Out...04-wine

^^^^
This

We have cleaned house and so far the athletic department is doing fine. I like Vince Tyra and would like for him to keep the job. Still have a issue with the BoT but right now there most important mission is to get compliant with the SASC which it appears they are doing.
(This post was last modified: 11-25-2017 09:07 PM by Maize.)
11-25-2017 08:05 PM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Tom Jurich and Rick Pitino fighting back
(11-25-2017 08:05 PM)Maize Wrote:  
(11-21-2017 02:02 PM)HRFlossY Wrote:  
(11-20-2017 10:41 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  Who cares how it was done? Jurich was being paid a ton of money. You take that kind of money; you accept responsibility. Football coaches say there are two kinds of coaches -- those who have been fired and those who will be fired. Getting fired is part of the deal. It's about the same for ADs. It's time for Louisville fans to get over it. Accept reality and move on.

That is TOTALLY where this Louisville fan is at.07-coffee3
I have gotten use to the idea of "cleaning house" and I and looking forward to moving forward!!

FLossY Out...04-wine

^^^^
This

We have cleaned house and so far the athletic department is doing fine. I like Vince Tyra and would like for him to keep the job. Still have a issue with the BoT but right now there most important mission is to get compliant with the SASC which it appears they are doing.

I'm good with the house cleaning, because are better days are in front of us! 07-coffee3
11-26-2017 08:55 PM
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Dasville Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Tom Jurich and Rick Pitino fighting back
Some nice lessons to be learned from this article about relationship between fans, donors, media and College sports programs:


https://www.si.com/college-football/2017...penn-state
11-27-2017 09:10 AM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Post: #50
Tom Jurich and Rick Pitino fighting back
Pitino & Jurich are gone & they aren't coming back but that doesn't mean that we should have blind faith in the current leadership. Postel wasn't selected from a list of qualified candidates, he was simply next in line by tenure. Qualifications had nothing to do with his appointment. Grissom was chosen by the governor & then nominated by the new board made up of seemingly a group of people with no interest in the wellbeing of the university, or who at least has limited knowledge of the history of the university. I'm struggling to find anything inspiring about this leadership or the future of the university. Moving on isn't necessarily the same as moving forward in the right direction.


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11-28-2017 05:42 PM
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Dasville Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Tom Jurich and Rick Pitino fighting back
Grissom just wants us to be more like Centre. We have to know our place.

http://www.wdrb.com/story/36762667/crawf...a-lifetime
11-29-2017 10:14 AM
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krux Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Tom Jurich and Rick Pitino fighting back
(11-29-2017 10:14 AM)Dasville Wrote:  Grissom just wants us to be more like Centre. We have to know our place.

http://www.wdrb.com/story/36762667/crawf...a-lifetime

A) Grissom isn't mentioned in that article at all.

B) Even if true, he obviously means academically.
11-29-2017 05:04 PM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Post: #53
Tom Jurich and Rick Pitino fighting back
(11-29-2017 05:04 PM)krux Wrote:  
(11-29-2017 10:14 AM)Dasville Wrote:  Grissom just wants us to be more like Centre. We have to know our place.

http://www.wdrb.com/story/36762667/crawf...a-lifetime

A) Grissom isn't mentioned in that article at all.

B) Even if true, he obviously means academically.


I wouldn't underestimate the academic side & their nonchalant approach & feelings towards sports. There's a reason why the members of the BOT don't donate to the athletic department.


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11-30-2017 10:54 AM
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Dasville Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Tom Jurich and Rick Pitino fighting back
(11-30-2017 10:54 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  
(11-29-2017 05:04 PM)krux Wrote:  
(11-29-2017 10:14 AM)Dasville Wrote:  Grissom just wants us to be more like Centre. We have to know our place.

http://www.wdrb.com/story/36762667/crawf...a-lifetime

A) Grissom isn't mentioned in that article at all.

B) Even if true, he obviously means academically.


I wouldn't underestimate the academic side & their nonchalant approach & feelings towards sports. There's a reason why the members of the BOT don't donate to the athletic department.


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You forgot to mention they also squashed the voice of the Entity that fired Coach Pitino. You know, the one Vince was on.
11-30-2017 12:26 PM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Tom Jurich and Rick Pitino fighting back
(11-30-2017 10:54 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  
(11-29-2017 05:04 PM)krux Wrote:  
(11-29-2017 10:14 AM)Dasville Wrote:  Grissom just wants us to be more like Centre. We have to know our place.

http://www.wdrb.com/story/36762667/crawf...a-lifetime

A) Grissom isn't mentioned in that article at all.

B) Even if true, he obviously means academically.


I wouldn't underestimate the academic side & their nonchalant approach & feelings towards sports. There's a reason why the members of the BOT don't donate to the athletic department.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That is the case at many schools. Do you think that the academic side of ND really supports the football program?

They largely dislike it and think that it overshadows academics. They fight it and are embarrassed if it wins a lot.

The Administration deemphasizes football and increases the academic requirements historically whenever the program wins "too much". (See Frank Leahy's (1953), Ara Parseghian's (1974) and Lou Holtz's (1996) forced "retirements".)

So, if true, Louisville is certainly not alone on that score.
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2017 01:03 PM by TerryD.)
11-30-2017 12:59 PM
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Dasville Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Tom Jurich and Rick Pitino fighting back
(11-30-2017 12:59 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(11-30-2017 10:54 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  
(11-29-2017 05:04 PM)krux Wrote:  
(11-29-2017 10:14 AM)Dasville Wrote:  Grissom just wants us to be more like Centre. We have to know our place.

http://www.wdrb.com/story/36762667/crawf...a-lifetime

A) Grissom isn't mentioned in that article at all.

B) Even if true, he obviously means academically.


I wouldn't underestimate the academic side & their nonchalant approach & feelings towards sports. There's a reason why the members of the BOT don't donate to the athletic department.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That is the case at many schools. Do you think that the academic side of ND really supports the football program?

They largely dislike it and think that it overshadows academics. They fight it and are embarrassed if it wins a lot.

The Administration deemphasizes football and increases the academic requirements historically whenever the program wins "too much". (See Frank Leahy's (1953), Ara Parseghian's (1974) and Lou Holtz's (1996) forced "retirements".)

So, if true, Louisville is certainly not alone on that score.

We are no Duck.


THAT is the problem. Jurich has forged a NEW trail.
ND has white people problems.
11-30-2017 01:07 PM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Post: #57
Tom Jurich and Rick Pitino fighting back
(11-30-2017 12:59 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(11-30-2017 10:54 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  
(11-29-2017 05:04 PM)krux Wrote:  
(11-29-2017 10:14 AM)Dasville Wrote:  Grissom just wants us to be more like Centre. We have to know our place.

http://www.wdrb.com/story/36762667/crawf...a-lifetime

A) Grissom isn't mentioned in that article at all.

B) Even if true, he obviously means academically.


I wouldn't underestimate the academic side & their nonchalant approach & feelings towards sports. There's a reason why the members of the BOT don't donate to the athletic department.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That is the case at many schools. Do you think that the academic side of ND really supports the football program?

They largely dislike it and think that it overshadows academics. They fight it and are embarrassed if it wins a lot.

The Administration deemphasizes football and increases the academic requirements historically whenever the program wins "too much". (See Frank Leahy's (1953), Ara Parseghian's (1974) and Lou Holtz's (1996) forced "retirements".)

So, if true, Louisville is certainly not alone on that score.


Louisville certainly isn't alone in this but it is new at the UofL. Some people on the academics side just can't get their head wrapped around that it is the success of the athletics that has grown the academic side of the university. With all the turmoil going on they are trying to gain more control instead of accepting the symbiotic atmosphere experienced under the Jurich administration. Ultimately I believe the university will achieve it again, Tyra is showing to be a strong leader on the athletic side & I think Papa Johns is an influential force behind the scenes. He has reportedly had some sort of beef against Jurich but the details haven't been reported.


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(This post was last modified: 11-30-2017 01:28 PM by Lenvillecards.)
11-30-2017 01:26 PM
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Dasville Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Tom Jurich and Rick Pitino fighting back
(11-30-2017 01:26 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  
(11-30-2017 12:59 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(11-30-2017 10:54 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  
(11-29-2017 05:04 PM)krux Wrote:  
(11-29-2017 10:14 AM)Dasville Wrote:  Grissom just wants us to be more like Centre. We have to know our place.

http://www.wdrb.com/story/36762667/crawf...a-lifetime

A) Grissom isn't mentioned in that article at all.

B) Even if true, he obviously means academically.


I wouldn't underestimate the academic side & their nonchalant approach & feelings towards sports. There's a reason why the members of the BOT don't donate to the athletic department.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That is the case at many schools. Do you think that the academic side of ND really supports the football program?

They largely dislike it and think that it overshadows academics. They fight it and are embarrassed if it wins a lot.

The Administration deemphasizes football and increases the academic requirements historically whenever the program wins "too much". (See Frank Leahy's (1953), Ara Parseghian's (1974) and Lou Holtz's (1996) forced "retirements".)

So, if true, Louisville is certainly not alone on that score.


Louisville certainly isn't alone in this but it is new at the UofL. Some people on the academics side just can't get their head wrapped around that it is the success of the athletics that has grown the academic side of the university. With all the turmoil going on they are trying to gain more control instead of accepting the symbiotic atmosphere experienced under the Jurich administration. Ultimately I believe the university will achieve it again, Tyra is showing to be a strong leader on the athletic side & I think Papa Johns is an influential force behind the scenes. He has reportedly had some sort of beef against Jurich but the details haven't been reported.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Some people know what the deal is.
11-30-2017 01:31 PM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Post: #59
Tom Jurich and Rick Pitino fighting back
(11-30-2017 01:31 PM)Dasville Wrote:  
(11-30-2017 01:26 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  
(11-30-2017 12:59 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(11-30-2017 10:54 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  
(11-29-2017 05:04 PM)krux Wrote:  A) Grissom isn't mentioned in that article at all.

B) Even if true, he obviously means academically.


I wouldn't underestimate the academic side & their nonchalant approach & feelings towards sports. There's a reason why the members of the BOT don't donate to the athletic department.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That is the case at many schools. Do you think that the academic side of ND really supports the football program?

They largely dislike it and think that it overshadows academics. They fight it and are embarrassed if it wins a lot.

The Administration deemphasizes football and increases the academic requirements historically whenever the program wins "too much". (See Frank Leahy's (1953), Ara Parseghian's (1974) and Lou Holtz's (1996) forced "retirements".)

So, if true, Louisville is certainly not alone on that score.


Louisville certainly isn't alone in this but it is new at the UofL. Some people on the academics side just can't get their head wrapped around that it is the success of the athletics that has grown the academic side of the university. With all the turmoil going on they are trying to gain more control instead of accepting the symbiotic atmosphere experienced under the Jurich administration. Ultimately I believe the university will achieve it again, Tyra is showing to be a strong leader on the athletic side & I think Papa Johns is an influential force behind the scenes. He has reportedly had some sort of beef against Jurich but the details haven't been reported.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Some people know what the deal is.


I think the naming of a permanent president will be telling & why it shouldn't be Postel.


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11-30-2017 01:37 PM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Tom Jurich and Rick Pitino fighting back
(11-30-2017 01:07 PM)Dasville Wrote:  
(11-30-2017 12:59 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(11-30-2017 10:54 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  
(11-29-2017 05:04 PM)krux Wrote:  
(11-29-2017 10:14 AM)Dasville Wrote:  Grissom just wants us to be more like Centre. We have to know our place.

http://www.wdrb.com/story/36762667/crawf...a-lifetime

A) Grissom isn't mentioned in that article at all.

B) Even if true, he obviously means academically.


I wouldn't underestimate the academic side & their nonchalant approach & feelings towards sports. There's a reason why the members of the BOT don't donate to the athletic department.


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That is the case at many schools. Do you think that the academic side of ND really supports the football program?

They largely dislike it and think that it overshadows academics. They fight it and are embarrassed if it wins a lot.

The Administration deemphasizes football and increases the academic requirements historically whenever the program wins "too much". (See Frank Leahy's (1953), Ara Parseghian's (1974) and Lou Holtz's (1996) forced "retirements".)

So, if true, Louisville is certainly not alone on that score.

We are no Duck.


THAT is the problem. Jurich has forged a NEW trail.
ND has white people problems.

Sorry, I don't speak jive.

What are you attempting to say?
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2017 02:22 PM by TerryD.)
11-30-2017 02:20 PM
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