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Lacrosse : realignment, rivalries (postponed) and re-evaluation (costs)
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Lacrosse : realignment, rivalries (postponed) and re-evaluation (costs)
(11-13-2017 05:45 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(11-12-2017 05:00 PM)Bogg Wrote:  To be fair, and I'm about the furthest one can get from an expert on the topic, but it seems like there are hurdles to overcome in starting up football that just aren't there in lacrosse. Football at that level is a significant expense, while it sounds like lacrosse is a pretty minor expense/can generate a small profit in terms of enrollment numbers without having to be at the very top level of the sport.

I don't disagree with that. It costs much less to run a lacrosse program than football, and lacrosse has the potential to be more profitable even with limited funding. Football is a wash if you aren't getting major network subsidies, alumni donations, and selling out your venue seven or eight times a year. Lacrosse offers smaller rosters, lower staffing, and there's partials if you're not going to pay for every kid to be there.

As another said, this is a good problem to have for lacrosse. I just can't look past it being these guys doing it when it's been known they're becoming more invisible. If the subject is A-10 lacrosse, I wouldn't bet on La Salle as a long-term solution.

There's no reason St. Joe's has to want them wherever they are, either. What does it do for them, you know, other than saving some money on travel?

Fair enough, just seems like lacrosse is a much, much easier sport to start up than football, particularly if you're looking to use already-existing infrastructure (if you already have a soccer team it seems like you're not much more than a locker room away). That being said, I don't really think the A-10 would need La Salle to start up lacrosse. If I understand the current situation (which is to say, Wikipedia'd right), NJIT and Hampton are sitting there as independents that would make a clean geographic fit for the other four members, and are in good general recruiting areas to boot.
(This post was last modified: 11-13-2017 09:23 AM by Bogg.)
11-13-2017 09:20 AM
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jdgaucho Online
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Post: #22
RE: Lacrosse : realignment, rivalries (postponed) and re-evaluation (costs)
(11-12-2017 08:41 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(11-12-2017 08:01 PM)TerpsNPhoenix Wrote:  
(11-12-2017 03:48 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  All fine and dandy - but there's practically zero lacrosse out west save for Denver and Air Force. Down the line that will have to be addressed.

I don't agree with "practically zero" but there is absolutely a TON of potential growth opportunities. Here's a gif that shows growth from 2005-2015.

[Image: lacrosse-gif3.gif]

The women's side has been growing much more. Utah starting men's lax is a PAC12 start. Suspect USC and Stanford will step up soon for men's lax. USC has stated they are monitoring the situation.

Yep. I heard somewhere that Oregon was looking into it as well.
11-13-2017 12:06 PM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Lacrosse : realignment, rivalries (postponed) and re-evaluation (costs)
It's not what people mean when they talk about the sport growing out West, but if Atlantic 10 lacrosse looks like it's going to become a thing, and the Bonnies are right about lacrosse potentially being cost-neutral/slightly profitable if run correctly, I wonder if Saint Louis would look at elevating their club team to a varsity sport. It's not "out West", but they'd be one of the Westernmost D1 programs in the country. With Big East expansion a couple years out it wouldn't hurt to better align the department with Big East sports sponsored, and worst-case it helps the University further recruit East Coast students from high-income families that are supposedly one of the benefits of A10 membership to begin with.
11-19-2017 05:41 PM
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DawgNBama Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Lacrosse : realignment, rivalries (postponed) and re-evaluation (costs)
(11-12-2017 03:48 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  All fine and dandy - but there's practically zero lacrosse out west save for Denver and Air Force. Down the line that will have to be addressed.

Which is sad, because the weather is perfect for lacrosse out west for the most part.

Hmm, maybe my alma mater Montevallo needs to take a look at adding lacrosse. We definitely have a field where it could be played, and we're not getting football any time soon, if ever. Lacrosse might be a good option for us.
11-20-2017 03:26 AM
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Erictelevision Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Lacrosse : realignment, rivalries (postponed) and re-evaluation (costs)
How well is it growing in the MAC and B1G?
11-21-2017 09:38 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Lacrosse : realignment, rivalries (postponed) and re-evaluation (costs)
(11-21-2017 09:38 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  How well is it growing in the MAC and B1G?

The MAC has added women's programs, which are in another xonference, but not men's. Minnesota has said they. have interest, but nothing is imminent. The B1G has stood still since B1G lacrosse formes.
11-22-2017 01:25 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Lacrosse : realignment, rivalries (postponed) and re-evaluation (costs)
Bellarmine wants to add women's LAX to be in D1.
11-22-2017 01:38 AM
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chess Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Lacrosse : realignment, rivalries (postponed) and re-evaluation (costs)
I announce lacrosse games in the Chicago area for our local youth organization. Last year, Illinois started offering a state championship for high school lacrosse. For any east coasters whose playing days are over and wish to coach- Move to the Midwest. Our local high school needs a coach. The league, where I announce, is the feeder program for the high school. Young people love playing lacrosse. Kids are giving up football for lacrosse. High School Baseball, who competes for players during the lacrosse season, is expecting to lose players.

As for your suggestion that Johns Hopkins consider a conference with George Mason (my school), etc.. Johns Hopkins joined the Big Ten for a number of reasons. The Big Ten Network is available locally and throughout the country. BTN needs programming and is willing to pay for it.

The Big Ten Network is the reason you are seeing members adding sports like college hockey and lacrosse.
(This post was last modified: 11-22-2017 01:46 PM by chess.)
11-22-2017 07:09 AM
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sctvman Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Lacrosse : realignment, rivalries (postponed) and re-evaluation (costs)
I’m surprised South Carolina only has one D1 men’s lacrosse program, Furman. There are 50 schools in SC that have programs. 23 5A schools have programs, and there’s only 42 5A schools. That’s expanding to 48 starting next year.

The SCHSL sanctioned the sport, and now has two state champions. That alone will probably expand the sport by a few schools. Some of the additional 5A schools could add it, especially those in the Upstate and the Lowcountry where there is growth in lacrosse.

Wando (a huge public school, over 4,000 students in rich Mt. Pleasant), Bishop England (a Catholic private school) and Porter-Gaud (another private school) are the only 3 schools with boys teams in the Charleston area. Ashley Hall (a all-girls private school) also plays lacrosse. There will probably be some expansion in the next few years with more schools adding the sport.
11-22-2017 11:43 AM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Lacrosse : realignment, rivalries (postponed) and re-evaluation (costs)
(11-22-2017 11:43 AM)sctvman Wrote:  I’m surprised South Carolina only has one D1 men’s lacrosse program, Furman. There are 50 schools in SC that have programs. 23 5A schools have programs, and there’s only 42 5A schools. That’s expanding to 48 starting next year.

The SCHSL sanctioned the sport, and now has two state champions. That alone will probably expand the sport by a few schools. Some of the additional 5A schools could add it, especially those in the Upstate and the Lowcountry where there is growth in lacrosse.

Wando (a huge public school, over 4,000 students in rich Mt. Pleasant), Bishop England (a Catholic private school) and Porter-Gaud (another private school) are the only 3 schools with boys teams in the Charleston area. Ashley Hall (a all-girls private school) also plays lacrosse. There will probably be some expansion in the next few years with more schools adding the sport.

Wofford and The Citadel both seem like they'd be good institutional fits for a lacrosse program, and the SoCon sponsoring the sport takes the question of finding a home out of the picture. Wofford could probably use the extra enrollment (similar to the Bonnies) and with The Citadel having VMI and Air Force in-conference and Army/Navy both fielding programs the rivalries are obvious.
11-22-2017 12:00 PM
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TerpsNPhoenix Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Lacrosse : realignment, rivalries (postponed) and re-evaluation (costs)
Article talks about Richmond and their affiliation.
http://www.richmond.com/sports/changing-...f0c64.html
11-22-2017 02:36 PM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Lacrosse : realignment, rivalries (postponed) and re-evaluation (costs)
(11-22-2017 02:36 PM)TerpsNPhoenix Wrote:  Article talks about Richmond and their affiliation.
http://www.richmond.com/sports/changing-...f0c64.html

Sounds a lot like "The SoCon is perfectly fine for lacrosse, but I expect the A-10 to eventually launch the sport and, ideally, long-term would like to end up in the Big East". I could be reading into things too much though.
11-22-2017 03:24 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Lacrosse : realignment, rivalries (postponed) and re-evaluation (costs)
(11-22-2017 02:36 PM)TerpsNPhoenix Wrote:  Article talks about Richmond and their affiliation.
http://www.richmond.com/sports/changing-...f0c64.html

More interesting was his statement on Football.
11-22-2017 03:27 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Lacrosse : realignment, rivalries (postponed) and re-evaluation (costs)
(11-22-2017 03:27 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(11-22-2017 02:36 PM)TerpsNPhoenix Wrote:  Article talks about Richmond and their affiliation.
http://www.richmond.com/sports/changing-...f0c64.html

More interesting was his statement on Football.

Exactly. Sounds like JMU and Delaware are bound for FBS, and Richmond fb would get out of the CAA. Lot of talk the William & Mary would go to the Patriot if those two leave too.
11-22-2017 03:36 PM
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Mav Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Lacrosse : realignment, rivalries (postponed) and re-evaluation (costs)
The sport's growing rather slowly in Nebraska. The high school club league consists of one team in Lincoln, three in the Des Moines-Ames corridor, six in the Omaha area, and one traveling team. It doesn't speak well to the sport's health west of the Mississippi for it to be like that, but it wasn't that long ago that the sport was a non-factor west of the Appalachians, so these things take time, I guess.

I think the growth of the women's sport has more to do with Title IX concerns than the sport itself.
(This post was last modified: 11-24-2017 12:03 AM by Mav.)
11-24-2017 12:02 AM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Lacrosse : realignment, rivalries (postponed) and re-evaluation (costs)
(11-24-2017 12:02 AM)Mav Wrote:  The sport's growing rather slowly in Nebraska. The high school club league consists of one team in Lincoln, three in the Des Moines-Ames corridor, six in the Omaha area, and one traveling team. It doesn't speak well to the sport's health west of the Mississippi for it to be like that, but it wasn't that long ago that the sport was a non-factor west of the Appalachians, so these things take time, I guess.

I think the growth of the women's sport has more to do with Title IX concerns than the sport itself.


Women's lacrosse at the college level definitely benefits from the need to offset the huge number of scholarships that football soaks up, no doubt. However, having gone to high school in Connecticut (which is to say, somewhere lacrosse is reasonably widespread) girls' lacrosse seemed to be a bit more popular, or at least more participated-in, at the high school level than boys'. Just an anecdotal observation, though.
11-25-2017 09:14 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Lacrosse : realignment, rivalries (postponed) and re-evaluation (costs)
(11-22-2017 03:36 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(11-22-2017 03:27 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(11-22-2017 02:36 PM)TerpsNPhoenix Wrote:  Article talks about Richmond and their affiliation.
http://www.richmond.com/sports/changing-...f0c64.html

More interesting was his statement on Football.

Exactly. Sounds like JMU and Delaware are bound for FBS, and Richmond fb would get out of the CAA. Lot of talk the William & Mary would go to the Patriot if those two leave too.

Meh. The CAAF doomsday scenario's been out there for what seems like ages. The "dominoes" seem to switch from time to time, with the exception of JMU. One day it's Stony Brook, another it's Delaware.

There is one constant in this whole thing: how badly the Patriot has wanted programs like Richmond and William & Mary. How it wants Villanova football, and would maybe take UNH's. That doesn't stop for PL. And now Richmond has a former PL school guy at its athletic helm. So, here we go again, yet another domino.

The lacrosse talk is the real curious takeaway, because the hint of new conference sponsors and calling the current affiliation "unique" (which is never a compliment) is as much of a tell that UR, at least its lacrosse program, is having affiliation discussions. But, really, would it be any surprise if you read UR moving that program over to CAA? "Shocking" would be taking the program over to Patsy or...the Big East. CAA or even a new A10 isn't that surprising (the surprise would be which, if any, current non A10 members got lax affiliate memberships).
11-25-2017 11:34 PM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Lacrosse : realignment, rivalries (postponed) and re-evaluation (costs)
(11-21-2017 09:38 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  How well is it growing in the MAC and B1G?

Posters around here with a long term knowledge of lacrosse had long suggested that the MAC build up men's lacrosse programs before the Big 10 established their programs.

That got nowhere. Now lacrosse is probably a non-starter at MAC schools.
11-27-2017 10:45 AM
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Mav Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Lacrosse : realignment, rivalries (postponed) and re-evaluation (costs)
(11-27-2017 10:45 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  
(11-21-2017 09:38 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  How well is it growing in the MAC and B1G?

Posters around here with a long term knowledge of lacrosse had long suggested that the MAC build up men's lacrosse programs before the Big 10 established their programs.

That got nowhere. Now lacrosse is probably a non-starter at MAC schools.
To be fair, lacrosse is still largely a sport for wealthy kids from the Mid-Atlantic, and I can't see that type of student jumping at the chance to go to Ball State or Eastern Michigan. The only MAC school I could see it working for is maybe Miami.
11-27-2017 03:54 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Lacrosse : realignment, rivalries (postponed) and re-evaluation (costs)
(11-27-2017 03:54 PM)Mav Wrote:  To be fair, lacrosse is still largely a sport for wealthy kids from the Mid-Atlantic, and I can't see that type of student jumping at the chance to go to Ball State or Eastern Michigan. The only MAC school I could see it working for is maybe Miami.
It's not just wealthy kids from the Mid-Atlantic, it stretches well into the middle class ... a school like Kent State which appreciates more Eastern Exposure might think about it.

Of course, first they'd have to start a women's lacrosse program, to get the program started up without any Title IX overhang.
11-27-2017 10:55 PM
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