(11-27-2017 02:34 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(11-27-2017 12:35 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Unless GT expanded the curriculum to allow them to compete on equal footing, I don't see how changing coaches would help.

I do agree with You and the other comments about recruiting. No reason GT can't bring in better backs.

GT can compete but they must recruit nationally to do so. It's a lazy trap to say "WELL WE'LL JUST GET ALL DEM THAR GAWJUH KIDS". Well the public education system in GA is among the worst of the 50 states. And they'll have grown up barking like an animal with an IQ (in theory at least) less than half of theirs. How's that going to work out? Answer: Poorly. GT does better out of state recruiting than it does in state. Basketball, due to small roster size, may be the only sport where the "set up a fence around the state" idea works. Mayyyyybe baseball too. But probably not there either.

Of course. But there are SO many D1 players in the South, the idea that they can't find 2-3 four star kids in all the South on the regular that match up to GT standards is a little bit much. It's still a huge advantage versus if they were located in Portland Maine.

Almost a third of all 4/5* recruits nationally come from Georgia or its bordering states. If GT can only manage about 0.3 blue chippers per cycle from that base, recruiting nationally would actually be about the worst use of resources relative the return imaginable.

The public schools may not be great in the South, but somehow the general student body still has plenty of students from Georgia and the South. There are plenty of private schools in the south, some with elite football players. If Paul Johnson can't even pull one blue chippers a year out of that pool, it's not because he can't, it's because he doesn't want to. Going national isn't going to change that...it's probably at the bottom of any effective suggestions to improve recruiting.

I don't think Paul Johnson has to fundamentally change his personality or his general personal attitude toward recruiting, but he's got to give the blessing to someone on his staff to start recruiting like it's the 21st century, if they want to upgrade their talent. Truly, I'm not sure that he does. I think beating your guys with his guys is part of what makes him tick, and he's happy to do it 25% of the time with his 2-3* guys, rather than 35-40% of the time with a more talented roster.

I respect that, but while there are insurmountable obstacles that keep GT from ever being an elite recruiting program, a lot of the obstacle that keep them from ascending a merely "below average" recruiting program are at the doorstep of Johnson.

(11-27-2017 05:21 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  Of course. But there are SO many D1 players in the South, the idea that they can't find 2-3 four star kids in all the South on the regular that match up to GT standards is a little bit much. It's still a huge advantage versus if they were located in Portland Maine.

Almost a third of all 4/5* recruits nationally come from Georgia or its bordering states. If GT can only manage about 0.3 blue chippers per cycle from that base, recruiting nationally would actually be about the worst use of resources relative the return imaginable.

The public schools may not be great in the South, but somehow the general student body still has plenty of students from Georgia and the South. There are plenty of private schools in the south, some with elite football players. If Paul Johnson can't even pull one blue chippers a year out of that pool, it's not because he can't, it's because he doesn't want to. Going national isn't going to change that...it's probably at the bottom of any effective suggestions to improve recruiting.

I don't think Paul Johnson has to fundamentally change his personality or his general personal attitude toward recruiting, but he's got to give the blessing to someone on his staff to start recruiting like it's the 21st century, if they want to upgrade their talent. Truly, I'm not sure that he does. I think beating your guys with his guys is part of what makes him tick, and he's happy to do it 25% of the time with his 2-3* guys, rather than 35-40% of the time with a more talented roster.

I respect that, but while there are insurmountable obstacles that keep GT from ever being an elite recruiting program, a lot of the obstacle that keep them from ascending a merely "below average" recruiting program are at the doorstep of Johnson.

I agree with a lot of your analysis up until the point you lay blame at Paul Johnson's doorstep. I heap nearly ALL of the blame on Mike Bobinski and Dave Braine and to a much lesser extent but still some deserved Radakovich.

Danny Hall. Hall of Famer. Homer Rice hire.
Bobby Ross. Hall of Famer. Homer Rice hire.
George O'Leary and Ralph Friedgen. Hall of famers. Homer Rice hires.
Bobby Cremins. Hall of Famer. Homer Rice hire.
Bruce Heppler. Hall of Famer. Homer Rice hire.

Nearly *all* of the success of GT Athletics from the 90's onward was either directly attributable to Homer Rice hires under Homer Rice or Homer Rice hires coasting under new ADs.

It starts at the top. Stansbury seems to get it. He seems to be making positive steps (though agonizingly slowly to those viewing the public facade of the GTAA). Why watch Paul Johnson's team? If you want to know if GT is going to be successful, the person to watch is really Stansbury.

(11-27-2017 07:06 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(11-27-2017 05:21 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  Of course. But there are SO many D1 players in the South, the idea that they can't find 2-3 four star kids in all the South on the regular that match up to GT standards is a little bit much. It's still a huge advantage versus if they were located in Portland Maine.

Almost a third of all 4/5* recruits nationally come from Georgia or its bordering states. If GT can only manage about 0.3 blue chippers per cycle from that base, recruiting nationally would actually be about the worst use of resources relative the return imaginable.

The public schools may not be great in the South, but somehow the general student body still has plenty of students from Georgia and the South. There are plenty of private schools in the south, some with elite football players. If Paul Johnson can't even pull one blue chippers a year out of that pool, it's not because he can't, it's because he doesn't want to. Going national isn't going to change that...it's probably at the bottom of any effective suggestions to improve recruiting.

I don't think Paul Johnson has to fundamentally change his personality or his general personal attitude toward recruiting, but he's got to give the blessing to someone on his staff to start recruiting like it's the 21st century, if they want to upgrade their talent. Truly, I'm not sure that he does. I think beating your guys with his guys is part of what makes him tick, and he's happy to do it 25% of the time with his 2-3* guys, rather than 35-40% of the time with a more talented roster.

I respect that, but while there are insurmountable obstacles that keep GT from ever being an elite recruiting program, a lot of the obstacle that keep them from ascending a merely "below average" recruiting program are at the doorstep of Johnson.

I agree with a lot of your analysis up until the point you lay blame at Paul Johnson's doorstep. I heap nearly ALL of the blame on Mike Bobinski and Dave Braine and to a much lesser extent but still some deserved Radakovich.

Danny Hall. Hall of Famer. Homer Rice hire.
Bobby Ross. Hall of Famer. Homer Rice hire.
George O'Leary and Ralph Friedgen. Hall of famers. Homer Rice hires.
Bobby Cremins. Hall of Famer. Homer Rice hire.
Bruce Heppler. Hall of Famer. Homer Rice hire.

Nearly *all* of the success of GT Athletics from the 90's onward was either directly attributable to Homer Rice hires under Homer Rice or Homer Rice hires coasting under new ADs.

It starts at the top. Stansbury seems to get it. He seems to be making positive steps (though agonizingly slowly to those viewing the public facade of the GTAA). Why watch Paul Johnson's team? If you want to know if GT is going to be successful, the person to watch is really Stansbury.

I don't disagree. I didn't mean to lay Tech's limitations overall at Johnson's doorstep. Just his absolute unwillingness toward recruiting. To not sign half a blue-chip prospect a year is not all Bobinski's fault.

Coach Johnson’s time on the Flats by the numbers:
75-54 overall, 46-34 Atlantic Coast Conference
1 ACC championship (2009)
4 ACC Coastal Division championships (08,09,12,14)
3-5 bowl games
1-1 BCS/New Years Six bowls
3 ranked finishes (08, 09,14)
12-22 versus ranked teams (9-5 at home)
19 NFL Draft picks

A couple of thoughts

Coach has recruited and even missed on a few reaches
1. Travis Custis (Had to go JUCO)
2. Myles Autry (Had to go JUCO)
3. Dedrick Mills (Had to go JUCO)

Also we had a ton of transfers in 2014 (Some were not TED ROOF guys as CTR replaced Al Groh)
It was not an issue in 2014 because we had a heavy RS Senior and Senior Class, However in 2015 we were young and injured..so we really missed these transfers..
DE Justin Akins
DT Darius Comissiong
DE Kevin Robbins
WR Travin Henry
WR Anthony Autry
WR Myles Autry
BB Donovan Wilson
QB Ty Griffin
DB John Marvin

For a team with Recruiting challenges, this is a problem. However it seemed to be looking good... and then whammy... 2016 we had 12 plus D.Mills dismissal..
CB Dorian Walker
CB Dante Wigley
CB Meiko Dotson
WR Harland Howell
OT Trey Klock
DE Jordan Woods
DE Kenderius Whitehead
AB/WR Mikel Land-Davis
LB Emanuel Bridges
WR Christian Philpott
SDE/DT Trent Sellers
BB Marcus Marshall

Dismissed
BB Dedrick Mills

So this year we by the numbers were young again... What Georgia Tech needs, is to limit the transfers this year so we can keep the depth... We will see what happens..