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Four college hockey feasibility studies underway
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Four college hockey feasibility studies underway
Toledo is moving its club hockey team to the top division, which may be a sign that it wi'll go varsity later. There is already an 8k arena avaiable, so DI hockey just might be doable. BGSU would welcome it.
12-10-2017 03:38 AM
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Post: #22
RE: Four college hockey feasibility studies underway
(12-10-2017 03:38 AM)NoDak Wrote:  Toledo is moving its club hockey team to the top division, which may be a sign that it wi'll go varsity later. There is already an 8k arena avaiable, so DI hockey just might be doable. BGSU would welcome it.

I don't see new MAC schools affording it. They would have to cut other sports. It will be something like a Big 10 school.
12-10-2017 05:45 PM
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NoDak Offline
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RE: Four college hockey feasibility studies underway
(12-10-2017 02:26 PM)sportsrankings Wrote:  Come on. No D1 ice hockey has been added without significant amount of donations.

ACHA club team has nothing to do with adding NCAA D1 team
Toledo is a metro that could easily do it. DI hockey is much more fan friendly than minor league hockey and has more potential fan allegiance. They just need a viable league.

Nearly every ACHA DI school on the east coast has been linked to an eventual NCAA team. Toledo might just be the school that is doing a silent feasibility study. They would just need scholarship endowments, not a rink. If Oakland gets a team and add Bowling Green, you have a real basis of a conference with Mercyhurst, Canisius, Niagara, and Robert Morris.

Alabama raised itself to DI club when they started visiting other schools rinks to get ideas what to build. That's been done at other schools too like UNLV, Utah, and Colorado. DI club players can sometimes be 3rd and 4th liners at the DI NCAA level.
(This post was last modified: 12-10-2017 06:50 PM by NoDak.)
12-10-2017 05:55 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Four college hockey feasibility studies underway
I'd buy a Pitt study. State-related means nunuvyuh****bizniz when people ask, and if externally-funded, enough people know on both sides of the state that the Burgh is good for hockey support. Can probably get a better thing going there for the long haul than that school in the middle of the state.
12-10-2017 08:08 PM
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Post: #25
RE: Four college hockey feasibility studies underway
(12-10-2017 05:55 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(12-10-2017 02:26 PM)sportsrankings Wrote:  Come on. No D1 ice hockey has been added without significant amount of donations.

ACHA club team has nothing to do with adding NCAA D1 team
Toledo is a metro that could easily do it. DI hockey is much more fan friendly than minor league hockey and has more potential fan allegiance. They just need a viable league.

Nearly every ACHA DI school on the east coast has been linked to an eventual NCAA team. Toledo might just be the school that is doing a silent feasibility study. They would just need scholarship endowments, not a rink. If Oakland gets a team and add Bowling Green, you have a real basis of a conference with Mercyhurst, Canisius, Niagara, and Robert Morris.

Alabama raised itself to DI club when they started visiting other schools rinks to get ideas what to build. That's been done at other schools too like UNLV, Utah, and Colorado. DI club players can sometimes be 3rd and 4th liners at the DI NCAA level.

Toledo could do it, Akron could do it, Buffalo could do it, Northern Illinois could do it...

Kent State and Ohio have both done it before and could try again.

Eastern Michigan and Central Michigan could do it but that state is quite saturated with teams already.

Ball State...probably not.

A MAC/great lakes hybrid league of Northern Illinois, Western Michigan, Toledo, Bowling Green, Miami (OH), Ohio, Akron, Buffalo, Robert Morris and Mercyhurst would be fun...but far from reality given the economics of the sport compared to the economics of those schools. I could certainly see one or two MAC schools taking part in the feasibility study and adding in the next few decades, but not enough to form their own league.
12-11-2017 10:18 AM
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Section 200 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Four college hockey feasibility studies underway
Is hockey the new football? East coast and Midwest kids ditching football for hockey?
12-11-2017 09:57 PM
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NoDak Offline
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RE: Four college hockey feasibility studies underway
(12-11-2017 09:57 PM)Section 200 Wrote:  Is hockey the new football? East coast and Midwest kids ditching football for hockey?

Hockey is an expensive sport, especially where there aren't many rinks, but seems to be preferable to football to parents.

Ohio, Illinois, Pennsylvania, California and New Jersey have vastly improved quality and quantity from a decade or more ago. Cities with NHL teams have seen a vastly increased and improved youth hockey scene.
(This post was last modified: 12-11-2017 10:11 PM by NoDak.)
12-11-2017 10:02 PM
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RE: Four college hockey feasibility studies underway
From Jeremy Werner‏ (@JWerner247) at 247 Sports : I asked #illini AD Josh Whitman about hockey. He said no big updates but that they're continuing to work on it and he's as bullish as ever that it "will get across the finish line."

Twitter link
02-08-2018 07:17 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Four college hockey feasibility studies underway
(12-11-2017 10:18 AM)el_norte Wrote:  Kent State and Ohio have both done it before and could try again.
Kent State has no rink to use, and if they could raise the funds to build one, they'd rather raise the funds to build a new BBall arena. Which goes along with the last strategic study they did, which concluded they should focus on improving their profile in BBall.

Don't know about OhioU, but they are closer to Columbus, so it may make more strategic sense for them. Plus, just like Toledo, their primary rival playing hockey would guarantee one series attracting attention among Bobcats fans in general who are not necessarily hockey fans. However (and also just like Toledo), that alone is just one count in favor of considering it, which on its own is far from sufficient reason to get the ball rolling.
(This post was last modified: 02-09-2018 01:29 AM by BruceMcF.)
02-09-2018 01:27 AM
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NoDak Offline
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RE: Four college hockey feasibility studies underway
(02-09-2018 01:27 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(12-11-2017 10:18 AM)el_norte Wrote:  Kent State and Ohio have both done it before and could try again.
Kent State has no rink to use, and if they could raise the funds to build one, they'd rather raise the funds to build a new BBall arena. Which goes along with the last strategic study they did, which concluded they should focus on improving their profile in BBall.

Don't know about OhioU, but they are closer to Columbus, so it may make more strategic sense for them. Plus, just like Toledo, their primary rival playing hockey would guarantee one series attracting attention among Bobcats fans in general who are not necessarily hockey fans. However (and also just like Toledo), that alone is just one count in favor of considering it, which on its own is far from sufficient reason to get the ball rolling.

Still no word on Oakland U hockey either.

There are school that have hockey studies ongoing, but the prefer to have no publicity. Buffalo and Toledo could be the schools.
02-09-2018 06:58 AM
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Post: #31
RE: Four college hockey feasibility studies underway
News on the Hockey front

[Image: CHN2006-hires_bigger.jpg] College Hockey News‏ @chnews

Arizona State's Board of Regents has officially approved plans that include a new hockey arena on campus.
11:54 AM - 9 Feb 2018
02-09-2018 03:54 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Four college hockey feasibility studies underway
(12-05-2017 03:29 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 02:36 PM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 12:46 PM)el_norte Wrote:  There are threads discussing the announced hockey feasibility studies at Illinois and Oakland, but according to this interview with the director of College Hockey Inc there are two additional schools doing studies confidentially.

http://www.themackreport.com/college-hoc...-underway/

This means four of the five planned studies are underway now, leaving only one more available. The story also mentions another 8-10 schools having discussions about a study.

Who might the two confidential schools be and will a second round of five studies happen with the amount of interest?

I know the B1G has been pushing to expand hockey in their conference. Combine that with proximity to NHL teams and I'd guess maybe Maryland or Rutgers. Also, I thought there was some whispering about Nebraska possibly looking to add hockey as well.

There has been a lot of talk among the Rutgers fanbase to push for hockey. We have a long running club program that plays a pretty high level. We field 2 teams - ESCHL, CSCHC. There would be strong fan support for a sport that is widely played at the high school level in the rich suburban towns around the state. As with all things Rutgers, the lack of $$ is the tripping point. There isn't a game day suitable arena in the area and ice time at the local rinks is already at a premium. RU would need a major donor to step forward with a PSU level donation - $100m+ - to get varsity programs off of the ground.

That's the issue with Illinois, too. I'm very happy the our AD has had some optimistic comments (as he's generally a straight shooter). No one would be happier to see Illinois have a Division I hockey program than me. I badly WANT to see it happen. However, I've been hearing about the prospect of moving up since I was a freshman in college... which is now over 20 years ago. At least for the Big Ten, a circa $100 million donation is what it takes to have a hockey program, and either that donation is there or it isn't (regardless of any studies). There aren't that many schools that have a critical mass of alums that could make that type of donation to begin with, much less those that would want to see that donation go to hockey. On paper, Illinois does have a number of people with that type of money available, but who knows whether they're committed to hockey in the way that Terry Pegula personally was with Penn State.

I love hockey, but the fact that you essentially need massive angel donations that you generally don't even see for football or basketball means that there's a natural limit to its growth at the college level. There are plenty of schools that have *interest* in hockey, but the number of schools that can actually viably pay for it is incredibly small and they are generally dependent upon a huge third party donation to make it happen. This isn't the same as when a school decides to move to FBS football (where schools seem to be more willing to take on debt and/or charge student fees to make the move).
02-09-2018 05:07 PM
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Post: #33
RE: Four college hockey feasibility studies underway
So what Percentage of the startup cost can be attributed to building an in-campus arena, and how many non-D1 schools already have a sufficiently large on campus facility? What is the capacity cutoff for a D1 arena?

I’ve heard that Utah eventually plans to move up to D1 and currently has a 2500 capacity arena and a separate Olympic size practice rink. I suspect that upgrades to the training facility/locker rooms would be needed though and that those are likely tied up in the current Olympic bid.
02-09-2018 06:23 PM
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NoDak Offline
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RE: Four college hockey feasibility studies underway
(02-09-2018 06:23 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  So what Percentage of the startup cost can be attributed to building an in-campus arena, and how many non-D1 schools already have a sufficiently large on campus facility? What is the capacity cutoff for a D1 arena?

I’ve heard that Utah eventually plans to move up to D1 and currently has a 2500 capacity arena and a separate Olympic size practice rink. I suspect that upgrades to the training facility/locker rooms would be needed though and that those are likely tied up in the current Olympic bid.

Minn St-Moorhead needed to raise $30 mill just a couple years ago to endow both M & W hockey programs. It already had a good 4000 seat rink to use, but in Fargo. They only got commitments for about 65%, so it was dropped.

So adjusting for variations in tuiion, $15 mill for men
Depending on Title IX, $15 mill for women
$1mill for startup costs
On campus practice rink, ~ $5 mill
A full rink with 400 seats - $40 million if none is available

A league commitment may save. Going without a league like Ariz St would chew up more $s.
(This post was last modified: 02-10-2018 02:16 AM by NoDak.)
02-09-2018 09:01 PM
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jrj84105 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Four college hockey feasibility studies underway
(02-09-2018 09:01 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(02-09-2018 06:23 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  So what Percentage of the startup cost can be attributed to building an in-campus arena, and how many non-D1 schools already have a sufficiently large on campus facility? What is the capacity cutoff for a D1 arena?

I’ve heard that Utah eventually plans to move up to D1 and currently has a 2500 capacity arena and a separate Olympic size practice rink. I suspect that upgrades to the training facility/locker rooms would be needed though and that those are likely tied up in the current Olympic bid.

Minn St-Moorhead needed to raise $30 mill just a couple years ago to endow both M & W hockey programs. It already had a good 4000 seat rink to use, but in Fargo. They only got commitments for about 65%, so it was dropped.

So adjusting for variations in tuiion, $15 mill for men
Depending on Title IX, $15 mill for women
$1mill for startup costs
On campus practice rink, ~ $5 mill
A full rink with 400 seats - $40 million if none is available

A league commitalent may save. Going without a league like Ariz St would chew up more $s.

Thanks. So if they call 2500 good for capacity and go with that and the current practice rink there’s maybe 1-5M in startup costs and locker room upgrades. If Title IX is already covered with a donation for women’s LAX, then it’s an only an additional 15M endowment to cover tuition. So 16-20M total. That’s not a huge hurdle.

I think they’re waiting to see if the Olympic bid goes through as there will be some money available for facilities improvements, and they also may get some of the planned stadium expansion covered (last expansion was partially funded for opening ceremonies of last Winter Olympics). I think it might still happen without Ympics but that it would be an almost sure thing if SLC does get the bid.
02-09-2018 10:50 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Four college hockey feasibility studies underway
(02-10-2018 01:02 PM)sportsrankings Wrote:  
(02-09-2018 06:58 AM)NoDak Wrote:  
(02-09-2018 01:27 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(12-11-2017 10:18 AM)el_norte Wrote:  Kent State and Ohio have both done it before and could try again.
Kent State has no rink to use, and if they could raise the funds to build one, they'd rather raise the funds to build a new BBall arena. Which goes along with the last strategic study they did, which concluded they should focus on improving their profile in BBall.

Don't know about OhioU, but they are closer to Columbus, so it may make more strategic sense for them. Plus, just like Toledo, their primary rival playing hockey would guarantee one series attracting attention among Bobcats fans in general who are not necessarily hockey fans. However (and also just like Toledo), that alone is just one count in favor of considering it, which on its own is far from sufficient reason to get the ball rolling.

Still no word on Oakland U hockey either.

There are school that have hockey studies ongoing, but the prefer to have no publicity. Buffalo and Toledo could be the schools.
Please stop. You have no idea, you're just spreading rumors/speculating.

Rumors and speculations are discussed here. That's the purpose of this board.
(This post was last modified: 02-10-2018 02:44 PM by NoDak.)
02-10-2018 02:43 PM
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Post: #37
RE: Four college hockey feasibility studies underway
(02-09-2018 05:07 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  That's the issue with Illinois, too. I'm very happy the our AD has had some optimistic comments (as he's generally a straight shooter). No one would be happier to see Illinois have a Division I hockey program than me. I badly WANT to see it happen. However, I've been hearing about the prospect of moving up since I was a freshman in college... which is now over 20 years ago. At least for the Big Ten, a circa $100 million donation is what it takes to have a hockey program, and either that donation is there or it isn't (regardless of any studies). There aren't that many schools that have a critical mass of alums that could make that type of donation to begin with, much less those that would want to see that donation go to hockey. On paper, Illinois does have a number of people with that type of money available, but who knows whether they're committed to hockey in the way that Terry Pegula personally was with Penn State.

I love hockey, but the fact that you essentially need massive angel donations that you generally don't even see for football or basketball means that there's a natural limit to its growth at the college level. There are plenty of schools that have *interest* in hockey, but the number of schools that can actually viably pay for it is incredibly small and they are generally dependent upon a huge third party donation to make it happen. This isn't the same as when a school decides to move to FBS football (where schools seem to be more willing to take on debt and/or charge student fees to make the move).

You shoulda convinced the Gies to throw "only" $50 million instead of 150 to get their name on the business school and put the remainder towards a hockey program. 03-wink
02-14-2018 09:43 PM
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