(12-16-2017 12:26 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  USC independence trigger.

USC (Indy, WCC)
PAC (Texas Tech)
Texas (Indy, AAC)
OU (Indy, AAC)
B12 (Colorado St)
MWC (UTEP)
CUSA (NMSU)

If Texas and Oklahoma were to leave the B12 for Indy/AAC would universities like Houston and SMU stay loyal to the AAC?

Are you asking if Houston and SMU would stay in the AAC for guaranteed games vs Texas and Oklahoma in every sport except football (and possibly a scheduling agreement in FB)...?

(12-17-2017 02:18 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-16-2017 12:26 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  USC independence trigger.

USC (Indy, WCC)
PAC (Texas Tech)
Texas (Indy, AAC)
OU (Indy, AAC)
B12 (Colorado St)
MWC (UTEP)
CUSA (NMSU)

If Texas and Oklahoma were to leave the B12 for Indy/AAC would universities like Houston and SMU stay loyal to the AAC?

Are you asking if Houston and SMU would stay in the AAC for guaranteed games vs Texas and Oklahoma in every sport except football (and possibly a scheduling agreement in FB)...?

Yes.

(12-17-2017 05:21 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(12-17-2017 02:18 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-16-2017 12:26 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  USC independence trigger.

USC (Indy, WCC)
PAC (Texas Tech)
Texas (Indy, AAC)
OU (Indy, AAC)
B12 (Colorado St)
MWC (UTEP)
CUSA (NMSU)

If Texas and Oklahoma were to leave the B12 for Indy/AAC would universities like Houston and SMU stay loyal to the AAC?

Are you asking if Houston and SMU would stay in the AAC for guaranteed games vs Texas and Oklahoma in every sport except football (and possibly a scheduling agreement in FB)...?

Yes.

Is a hundred pounds of flour enough to make a big fluffy biscuit?

(12-12-2017 09:42 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The big money at USC is research and the associations with the UC schools and UW. USC is not moving anywhere, as Sports are a pimple compared to that. USC like Stanford has so many big donors the can (and sometimes do) tell Billionaires to take a piss in the ocean.

California the institutional money is so much larger it would blow the minds of Southerners and Midwesterners. These are multi $Billion research machines. The athletic money is peanuts by comparison.

Please. The West has always underinvested in higher ed, and the financial industry in the West is peanuts compared to the Midwest.

Fun fact - the only stock exchanges West of the Mississippi River are in Kansas City.

Endowments that are over $1.5 billion in the West and Midwest:
Stanford - 22 billion
Notre Dame - 11.8
Michigan - 10.9
Northwestern - 9.6
Chicago - 7.8
Washington University in St. Louis - 7.5
USC - 4.6
Cal - 4.0
Ohio State - 3.6
UCLA - 3.5
Illinois - 3.5
Minnesota - 3.2
Michigan State - 3.0
Washington - 2.9
Wisconsin - 2.4
UCSF - 2.3
Purdue - 2.3
Cal Tech - 2.1
Indiana - 1.9
Pamona - 1.9
Case Western - 1.6
Nebraska - 1.5
Kansas - 1.5
Missouri - 1.5
BYU - 1.5

(12-17-2017 07:55 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-17-2017 05:21 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(12-17-2017 02:18 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-16-2017 12:26 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  USC independence trigger.

USC (Indy, WCC)
PAC (Texas Tech)
Texas (Indy, AAC)
OU (Indy, AAC)
B12 (Colorado St)
MWC (UTEP)
CUSA (NMSU)

If Texas and Oklahoma were to leave the B12 for Indy/AAC would universities like Houston and SMU stay loyal to the AAC?

Are you asking if Houston and SMU would stay in the AAC for guaranteed games vs Texas and Oklahoma in every sport except football (and possibly a scheduling agreement in FB)...?

Yes.

Is a hundred pounds of flour enough to make a big fluffy biscuit?

Would you rather eat 100 duck-sized biscuits or one horse-sized biscuit?

Throw the best of all the conferences not named the Big Ten or SEC into a super league:

West: USC, UCLA, Stanford, Texas, Oklahoma
East: Florida St, Clemson, Miami, VT, Notre Dame

I bet that would draw some eyeballs.

(12-19-2017 05:56 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Throw the best of all the conferences not named the Big Ten or SEC into a super league:

West: USC, UCLA, Stanford, Texas, Oklahoma
East: Florida St, Clemson, Miami, VT, Notre Dame

I bet that would draw some eyeballs.

Maybe you could just cut the deadwood out of the SEC and B1G, too.https://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/college-football-expanded-playoffs-10-years-alabama-ohio-state-notre-dame-051616


Here’s what college football will look like in 2026

(12-16-2017 08:59 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  The P12N is an easy fix. As much as they like Olympic sports on the west coast, there just isn't enough content to fill 6 networks, 24/7/365. That's over 1,000 hours of air time. Plus they have to compete with traditional networks, regional networks, pro sports, etc.. If you are a P12 president and are surprised that nobody is watching Arizona vs Utah volleyball at 3:00 AM, you should resign. The fix is do away with the regional networks. It was an interesting experiment but it failed.

The schedule is a little harder but can be fixed. It's kind of like wac-a-mole. You fix USC's schedule then Cal is out of wack. You fix Cal's schedule.... Still it can be done. I'm wondering if this might be a push to cut back to an 8 game schedule?

The overhead for producing telecasts for Olympic sports can be easily reduced to almost nothing. Have students and/or employees at each school handle the entire production for Olympic sports. P12N isn't sending any of their "A" or "B" crews to these events anyway. If there is a significant expense making the "regional" channels available for cable/satellite, as opposed to just having those channels for football/basketball overflow (I bet there isn't, but let's play along for a minute), then just make the Olympic sports telecasts available exclusively via streaming through the apps and website.

A much more significant reduction in overhead can be gained by reducing executive staff payroll. Larry Scott has hired a lot of overpaid folks to run P12N -- i.e., he's paying them like ESPN executives which is silly given that ESPN has vastly more revenue. Bring those salaries in line with P12N revenues. Stop renting vast amounts of office and production space in the second most expensive commercial real estate market (San Francisco); even in west LA they could probably get comparable space for half as much and obviously there is no shortage of TV/broadcasting talent in LA to draw from.

Most importantly, get the deal makers to work, sell the whole thing to ESPN, and let ESPN use its leverage to get the widest possible distribution. Stop believing Larry Scott when he tells you it was a genius move for the conference to own the whole network itself.

Wedge,

I would add change the focus and content of the P12N to be for one channel not 7, maybe one overflow local. And change the content to be heavily FB (65%) and the rest heavily MBB (20%).

Amazingly unlike SECtv and BTN, the P12N had not one second of coverage or any shows about signing day. Only on digital. Football and MBB signing days are huge promos for the schools. Amazingly out of touch.

By focusing on FB and MBB, and reducing costs, the P12N could probably triple it's returns almost immediately. Cal's Chancellor is the only calling for a change so far. Perhaps it's because she agreed to write off a big chunk of the stadium costs, and wants to see athletics stand on it's own, even bring in revenue to Cal.

Scheduling issues cannot be completely fixed, but some parts of them can, such as balancing the byes, so you don't get a USC with a week off playing Stanford on a short week after playing Notre Dame for the Championship; and making sure no schools are playing a Friday night road game after a road game. Those can be fixed without a lot of negotiation with the networks as Larry Scott's office controls the league schedule.

(12-21-2017 09:07 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Wedge,

I would add change the focus and content of the P12N to be for one channel not 7, maybe one overflow local. And change the content to be heavily FB (65%) and the rest heavily MBB (20%).

Amazingly unlike SECtv and BTN, the P12N had not one second of coverage or any shows about signing day. Only on digital. Football and MBB signing days are huge promos for the schools. Amazingly out of touch.

By focusing on FB and MBB, and reducing costs, the P12N could probably triple it's returns almost immediately. Cal's Chancellor is the only calling for a change so far. Perhaps it's because she agreed to write off a big chunk of the stadium costs, and wants to see athletics stand on it's own, even bring in revenue to Cal.

Scheduling issues cannot be completely fixed, but some parts of them can, such as balancing the byes, so you don't get a USC with a week off playing Stanford on a short week after playing Notre Dame for the Championship; and making sure no schools are playing a Friday night road game after a road game. Those can be fixed without a lot of negotiation with the networks as Larry Scott's office controls the league schedule.

SEC has a couple of overflow channels. I would think sub-channels used for overflow would be better. Maybe reduce it to 3 four school sub-channels.

Here is Wilner's article about the lack of coverage for signing day.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/12/21/i...n-be-done/

Sub-channels should be off air most of the time. But those that exist now make some sense if anyone watched them, since you have the NorCal, SoCal, Arizona, Northwest (Willamette Valley to Seattle), Denver region and SLC. And of course the generic P12N overflow. The thinking was each has distinct local schools Olympic content. But producing that many events is ridiculous, especially for zero share audience.

The reality is one channel should run, with a second on Football Saturdays and Basketball game days as overflow. The content should shift from Olympics to Football and Basketball. Moving to cheaper locale in SoCal (e.g., Riverside) or even just Sacramento, or to Phoenix, Las Vegas or SLC makes sense. Shedding half the high salary people also makes sense. Many are now paid a Bay Area premium due to the highest wage scale in the nation and 2nd or 3rd highest cost of living depending on which survey you look at.

Basically Wilner and Cal's Chancellor are saying, reduce expenses and change content to be more relevant to the fan base, thus driving up ratings and improving margins. That would unlock a lot of money the schools are not seeing now. P12N is a tough sell to advertisers because it has low ratings, and that is due to content. You may never get SECN or BTN ratings, but you can easily get more than half their numbers (people may not be as crazy about college sports, but the National games get not that dissimilar numbers in the West as they get in the Midwest and Southern regions), and that will drive revenue up fast. Recruiting shows, and game day shows for football and Basketball will keep viewers watching longer and on non-game days. These are fixable problems. But other Chancellors and Presidents have to support Cal on this issue.

When the doomsayers in The Big 12 were proven wrong about The ACC, they moved on to The PAC.
First it was the Arizona and Arizona State to The Big 12 fantasies, now it's some PAC/Big 12 merger.

The geographical center of The Big 12 is closer to New York City than Los Angeles.

Common sense goes out the window when survival of The Big 12 is involved.
CJ

(12-26-2017 11:35 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  When the doomsayers in The Big 12 were proven wrong about The ACC, they moved on to The PAC.
First it was the Arizona and Arizona State to The Big 12 fantasies, now it's some PAC/Big 12 merger.

The geographical center of The Big 12 is closer to New York City than Los Angeles.

Common sense goes out the window when survival of The Big 12 is involved.
CJ

Jim, it went out the window when they invited T.C.U. and West Virginia and claimed that they were wonderful replacements for Nebraska, Colorado, Texas A&M and Missouri. It was obvious to the rest of us that Texas and Oklahoma just wanted to keep their options open as long as possible.

Then when they staged that horrendous interview process of the G5 schools only to turn them all down and voted subsequently not to extend their GOR it was all over but the wait. Tick tock, tick tock...............

(12-27-2017 12:34 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-26-2017 11:35 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  When the doomsayers in The Big 12 were proven wrong about The ACC, they moved on to The PAC.
First it was the Arizona and Arizona State to The Big 12 fantasies, now it's some PAC/Big 12 merger.

The geographical center of The Big 12 is closer to New York City than Los Angeles.

Common sense goes out the window when survival of The Big 12 is involved.
CJ

Jim, it went out the window when they invited T.C.U. and West Virginia and claimed that they were wonderful replacements for Nebraska, Colorado, Texas A&M and Missouri. It was obvious to the rest of us that Texas and Oklahoma just wanted to keep their options open as long as possible.

Then when they staged that horrendous interview process of the G5 schools only to turn them all down and voted subsequently not to extend their GOR it was all over but the wait. Tick tock, tick tock...............

What is truly interesting, is that ESPN/FOX agreed to continue to pay the Big 12 on the same contract. The networks more than anyone would have known of the Big 12's diminished value.
It makes one wonder wonder if the seeds of the FOX buyout by Disney had already been sown and they were willing to blow a couple hundred million to avoid any semblance of collusion in order to manipulate the "market".
In that regard, as CR is soon coming to a close (even ESPN predicted 2023) http://www.espn.com/college-football/sto...shuffling, the irony of seeing Oklahoma vs. Georgia in football's version of the final four? And don't forget FOX's 1984ish prediction of the future https://www.foxsports.com/college-footba...ame-051616 that could only be brought about with a manipulated market.

(12-27-2017 05:41 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(12-27-2017 12:34 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-26-2017 11:35 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  When the doomsayers in The Big 12 were proven wrong about The ACC, they moved on to The PAC.
First it was the Arizona and Arizona State to The Big 12 fantasies, now it's some PAC/Big 12 merger.

The geographical center of The Big 12 is closer to New York City than Los Angeles.

Common sense goes out the window when survival of The Big 12 is involved.
CJ

Jim, it went out the window when they invited T.C.U. and West Virginia and claimed that they were wonderful replacements for Nebraska, Colorado, Texas A&M and Missouri. It was obvious to the rest of us that Texas and Oklahoma just wanted to keep their options open as long as possible.

Then when they staged that horrendous interview process of the G5 schools only to turn them all down and voted subsequently not to extend their GOR it was all over but the wait. Tick tock, tick tock...............

What is truly interesting, is that ESPN/FOX agreed to continue to pay the Big 12 on the same contract. The networks more than anyone would have known of the Big 12's diminished value.

It makes one wonder wonder if the seeds of the FOX buyout by Disney had already been sown and they were willing to blow a couple hundred million to avoid any semblance of collusion in order to manipulate the "market".

In that regard, as CR is soon coming to a close (even ESPN predicted 2023) http://www.espn.com/college-football/sto...shuffling, the irony of seeing Oklahoma vs. Georgia in football's version of the final four? And don't forget FOX's 1984ish prediction of the future https://www.foxsports.com/college-footba...ame-051616 that could only be brought about with a manipulated market.

An interesting quote from that ESPN article:

Quote:Traditional rights deals aren't the only reason 2023 matters. By then the traditional rights deal itself might be obsolete. Conferences recognize that fans are consuming content, including live events, in different ways. This shift will continue to impact current distributors like ESPN, Fox and CBS, and could bring different companies into the distribution market, like Amazon, Google, Facebook or Twitter.

Disney definitely made a move to cut off the competition by purchasing so much of 21st Century Fox. Any new players will have a hard time catching up when Disney and ESPN create their own streaming services.

The only one I might think could still be a threat would be Amazon because, like Disney, their business model doesn't depend solely on streaming content. Amazon's weakness will be their lack of infrastructure to do production for sports broadcasting. They've probably got the money to invest in it, but they'd still be playing catch-up and questions would surround the profitability of such a venture.

Changing how fans access content doesn't change the smaller footprint issues for the Big 12. Fewer
fans, in less populated states, watching on TV vs fewer fans in less populated states fans watching on their phone or computer still equals fewer fans watching.

Anyone that follows conference media contracts knows Fox / ESPN overpaid for Big 12 rights the last go round. This time round the chickens are coming home to roost. Fox / ESPN used the Big 12 as a placeholder as they improved their positions with the other four conferences.

I still believe the other four more stable conferences are going to relieve the Big 12 of some of its more valuable properties.
CJ

Looks like ND is shifting priorities in order to give themselves a better shot at the playoffs. If they still want to play some B10 and SEC teams, they might have to start rotating out their PAC 12 opponents. That would be yet another blow to the PAC12 and a potential boon to the G5.

Link regarding shifting priorities:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21920...g-strategy

Asked if a different approach to scheduling could upset Notre Dame fans, Kelly replied, "I know this: They're mad because we didn't make the playoffs. So if you win 'em all, they can't be mad at you. We've got to play our five ACC schools, so you can't have everything."

USC is the biggest rival for Notre Dame - the Trojans are not going away. Stanford is relatively new and could be on the chopping block, IMO.

Amazon has only been turning a profit for the last 2 years or so. Admittedly, they have been investing in company growth, but they are not cash rich like a Disney. Their streaming service is pretty weak. It certainly can't support the number of potential viewers for sports. Not to mention they would need facilities to support peak viewership on a football Saturday. It is doubtful those sports fans would stay online and watch an "Ancient Aliens" marathon. It's like building an 8-lane highway that gets used for 4 hours. The rest of the week only 1 or 2 lanes are needed.

(01-01-2018 11:34 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  USC is the biggest rival for Notre Dame - the Trojans are not going away. Stanford is relatively new and could be on the chopping block, IMO.

Having both USC and Stanford on the schedule means the Irish get to play in the state of California every year instead of every other year..