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Potential XFL return
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Potential XFL return
As I said in another thread, it'd be a way better idea if Vince tried to elevate MLL or MLS into a legit major league instead of yet another sure fire spring football league failure.
12-27-2017 09:03 AM
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PGEMF Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Potential XFL return
(12-26-2017 11:40 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  So I was unaware the that the Silver Dome was demolished. It wasn't a market I thought was even critical to an upstart football league--just a city that I thought still has a former NFL stadium that was vacant.

I was privy to the fact that RFK lost their MLS tenant. All the more reason to try to find a new one. As for the Astrodome, if it's too far gone both Rice and Houston have facilities. Places like Orlando, San Antonio, San Diego, Oakland, St. Louis, Memphis, Dallas, and Birmingham all have stadiums that are turn key albeit in many cases old. I think the historic stadiums could be part of the allure.

In 2001 the XFL was well financed and had respectable gate attendance. The UFL did not have the same time of media frenzy around it nor the financial backing needed to successfully back a start up league. I'm fairly confident that a new league could duplicate the XFL numbers. A lot of people like to bash the XFL as a very public failure--I don't see it as such. It was an experiment that wasn't given enough time to realize its maximum potential.

I also think a city's soccer attendance is not indicative of what it would draw for football. By in large football fans are not the same people that are drawn to soccer.

3 cities that I identified as critical either just lost or are in the process of losing an NFL team. Fans will come out and support a new team just to spite Goddell. Remember the CFL experiment? Baltimore was a success because the fans their had experienced the loss of the Colts and were desperate to have the sport back in their city

RFK is a dump. The city is not going to put money in it for this, if they did, they would have done it for the United or the Nationals. It was more feasible to build a new stadium elsewhere. The only way it gets a stadium there is if they build a new one for the Redskins, but that will likely be in Loudoun County near Dulles airport

At some point the entire property will be developed. It's nearly 300 acres with a Metro line running through it and an existing station.
12-27-2017 09:25 AM
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Carolina_Low_Country Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Potential XFL return
I would go into markets that do not have a NFL team in the city.

NORTH
Omaha - (TD Ameritrade Park)
St. Louis - (America's Center)
Milwaukee - (Miller Park)
Louisville - (Papa Johns Stadium)

SOUTH
Birmingham - (Legion Field)
Memphis - (Liberty Bowl)
San Antonio - (Alamo Dome)
Orlando - (Camping World Stadium)

EAST
New York City - (Yankee Stadium)
Boston - (Fenway Park)
Virginia Beach - (Foreman Field)
Raleigh - (Carter-Finley Stadium)

WEST
Oakland - (Oakland Alameda Coliseum)
San Diego - (SDCCU Stadium)
Portland - (Providence Park)
Salt Lake City - (Rice-Eccles Stadium)

Most of those stadiums are smaller which will help with stadium experience
12-27-2017 10:24 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Potential XFL return
(12-26-2017 07:34 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  If a new league REALLY wanted to make a dent in the NFL ...

... make all player contracts GUARANTEED.

THAT would get a crap ton of "middle of the road" NFL players to make the jump. Those players have the most to gain from that kind of contract. And it would force the NFL to match that going forward.

Agreed.

I'm mixed on bypassing college, but even a 1-and-done thing would really **** up things for colleges and the NFL, because now you have some college training, even if on a bench or red-shirted, and guys having the option of leaving if they hate it.

If you REALLY want to get into hot water with the NFL and FBS, don't cap rookie salaries. Or, at least, put in enough of a cap that would give emerging pros some pause when considering their options. Muck up the middle rounds in the NFL where teams steal talent at rock-bottom prices; you may find it better to play in the XFL as a first or second-rounder than the NFL third through fifth.

Overall, I'm not sure you need another league, but it wouldn't take a whole lot to really disrupt the stranglehold the NFL and NCAA has over the sport, and, I think that's the real chaser here. The NCAA, especially, needs to feel the heat with competition more than the NFL. Or, specifically, football players need to have other options after high school than dealing with the outmoded pro pipeline that college ball has become. And, I'd say is spoiling the pool for the current pro product anyway.

And, yes, use the MLS stadiums. They're in good markets. So tired of the passed over markets the World League and XFL tried.
12-27-2017 11:12 AM
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Potential XFL return
Sounds good to me and have it compete with the NFL in the fall. TV sets will determine which league the fans want to see and support. Especially with the NFL going all political and there seems to be no will to change that and will double down on it and have even more fans and viewers of the NFL decline even more.
12-27-2017 01:41 PM
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Cyniclone Online
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Post: #26
RE: Potential XFL return
It's probably too far gone at this point, but if he was going to boost or revive a league: Arena Football.

Gets him back into football, arenaball is an edgier, fan-friendlier and more entertaining version of the sport, and Vince obviously has good relationships with most American arenas.
(This post was last modified: 12-27-2017 02:58 PM by Cyniclone.)
12-27-2017 02:52 PM
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hawghiggs Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Potential XFL return
(12-27-2017 10:24 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  I would go into markets that do not have a NFL team in the city.

NORTH
Omaha - (TD Ameritrade Park)
St. Louis - (America's Center)
Milwaukee - (Miller Park)
Louisville - (Papa Johns Stadium)

SOUTH
Birmingham - (Legion Field)
Memphis - (Liberty Bowl)
San Antonio - (Alamo Dome)
Orlando - (Camping World Stadium)

EAST
New York City - (Yankee Stadium)
Boston - (Fenway Park)
Virginia Beach - (Foreman Field)
Raleigh - (Carter-Finley Stadium)

WEST
Oakland - (Oakland Alameda Coliseum)
San Diego - (SDCCU Stadium)
Portland - (Providence Park)
Salt Lake City - (Rice-Eccles Stadium)

Most of those stadiums are smaller which will help with stadium experience

This is not a bad list.
12-27-2017 04:17 PM
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nickp Online
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Post: #28
RE: Potential XFL return
All I want is the XFL to come back with LaVar Ball as commissioner
12-27-2017 05:19 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Potential XFL return
(12-27-2017 02:46 AM)Renandpat Wrote:  
(12-27-2017 02:31 AM)lew240z Wrote:  Saint Louis can be removed from the list. The convention center makes more money, and I mean a hell of a lot more money, without football. The convention center lost at least $50,000 each time the Rams played. And that doesn't count the lost revenue from not being able to rent the space during the football season. The convention center made a profit of more than $1,000,000 on a Beyoncé concert. It is expected that the convention center will make that kind of money again with the Taylor Swift concert next year.

Plus, Vince specified grass fields last time so if he keeps constant, domes are out.

Just because they said no turf last time doesn't mean they will stick with that this time around. 2 of the best markets available out there--St Louis and San Antonio are domed.

The main reason they were anti-Turf last time around was that turf in 2001 looked terrible and wasn't very safe. We've come a long way since then.
12-27-2017 05:34 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Potential XFL return
(12-27-2017 02:33 AM)Policiious Wrote:  Spring football will only work in a few markets, ANy city with an MLB franchise is going to be a tough sell for the XFL.

Memphis, Orlando, Birmingham, and San Antonio don't have MLB to compete with.

Last time around Chicago, NYC, San Francisco, and LA all had MLB (in fact 2 teams each) and they still drew respectably.
12-27-2017 05:40 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Potential XFL return
(12-27-2017 12:21 AM)Renandpat Wrote:  
(12-26-2017 11:40 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  So I was unaware the that the Silver Dome was demolished. It wasn't a market I thought was even critical to an upstart football league--just a city that I thought still has a former NFL stadium that was vacant.

I was privy to the fact that RFK lost their MLS tenant. All the more reason to try to find a new one. As for the Astrodome, if it's too far gone both Rice and Houston have facilities. Places like Orlando, San Antonio, San Diego, Oakland, St. Louis, Memphis, Dallas, and Birmingham all have stadiums that are turn key albeit in many cases old. I think the historic stadiums could be part of the allure.

In 2001 the XFL was well financed and had respectable gate attendance. The UFL did not have the same time of media frenzy around it nor the financial backing needed to successfully back a start up league. [b]I'm fairly confident that a new league could duplicate the XFL numbers. A lot of people like to bash the XFL as a very public failure--I don't see it as such. It was an experiment that wasn't given enough time to realize its maximum potential. [/b]

I also think a city's soccer attendance is not indicative of what it would draw for football. By in large football fans are not the same people that are drawn to soccer.

3 cities that I identified as critical either just lost or are in the process of losing an NFL team. Fans will come out and support a new team just to spite Goddell. Remember the CFL experiment? Baltimore was a success because the fans their had experienced the loss of the Colts and were desperate to have the sport back in their city
Well financed? The WWE and GE each lost between $20-35MM depending on the major story you try to Google.

So in regards to your bolded statement, a "new league" will just have the same losses as the XFL. That's not good at all, G.

Um, in 2001, the XFL expected 40% of their revenue to be based from TV ad dollars. That won't occur in 2018, so the gate is even more important.

Alt-football wants to desperately target Millennials, which is also the same audience which the MLS and the USL attracts en masse. They have that audience big time. Spare pro/semi-pro football, not so much...Ever. Those who watched/attended/loved much of the WFL, USFL, WAFL, CFL, and even the XFL are now likely in their late 40's at best and near 70 or dead. That's not the best demographic as they've seen numerous leagues in their town vanish, like a Italian restaurant/pizza place in a local strip mall start and fail year after year.

Bottom line is that even a Vince McMahon and every alt-football founder who has much, much less cash must price a ticket at $35+ to hope to break even and families don't want to pay that much money for $hitty semi-pro football live in a stadium.

Well financed means that this involved in the venture had plenty of capital to invest--it has nothing to do with whether or not you made a profit in your first year. Well financed means having the financial resources of entertainment giants like NBC and WWE. It's very rare for a start up business to turn a profit in their first year. It takes time to grow your brand and recover the initial investment required to get off the ground.

I also disagree with the notion that this league would be targeting Millenials as their audience. Millenials are the audience that the NFL tried to pander to by getting political and letting the anthem protests go on--look how well that went for them--instead of attracting an audience it drew many of the die hard fans away as evidenced by all of the empty seats. The target audience for this league is a bit older and politically right leaning. They want the folks who are disenfranchised with the way the sport has been commercialized. They want the folks who the NFL turned their backs on by either allowing their team to move away, disrespecting their nation's flag, or pricing them out of their markets with their high cost of attendance.[/color]
12-27-2017 05:53 PM
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dbackjon Online
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Post: #32
RE: Potential XFL return
(12-27-2017 05:19 PM)nickp Wrote:  All I want is the XFL to come back with LaVar Ball as commissioner

And they can play Footbasketball
12-27-2017 07:17 PM
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DawgNBama Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Potential XFL return
Mods, can we please move this to the pro sports board??
12-28-2017 01:15 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Potential XFL return
I can't think of a single reason why we need more football leagues. If this is intended just as an alternative to college ball for recently graduated HS players, then it's essentially always going to be a minor (feeder) league for the NFL, and not a competitor with it.

If, instead, it is truly intended to compete with the NFL, then it needs to find markets the NFL doesn't already serve that are large enough and rabid enough to support a pro franchise. There aren't a lot of those.

And if those new franchises are going to compete with NFL teams for the top players, they are going to need very deep pockets and a high tolerance for pain. There are already not nearly enough good pro-style quarterbacks to go around just for NFL teams. A new league would probably have to differentiate itself by emphasizing the dual threat QB style that less talented college teams use to stay competitive with the big dogs.

Bottom line is that they would need to be a discernably different product to have a chance at survival. And that difference would have to be seen on the field, not just in politics.
12-28-2017 01:50 PM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Potential XFL return
(12-28-2017 01:15 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Mods, can we please move this to the pro sports board??

Who cares? As long as the board isn't flooded with these, why does it matter?
(This post was last modified: 12-28-2017 04:53 PM by _C2_.)
12-28-2017 04:53 PM
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Post: #36
RE: Potential XFL return
(12-28-2017 01:50 PM)ken d Wrote:  I can't think of a single reason why we need more football leagues. If this is intended just as an alternative to college ball for recently graduated HS players, then it's essentially always going to be a minor (feeder) league for the NFL, and not a competitor with it.

If, instead, it is truly intended to compete with the NFL, then it needs to find markets the NFL doesn't already serve that are large enough and rabid enough to support a pro franchise. There aren't a lot of those.

And if those new franchises are going to compete with NFL teams for the top players, they are going to need very deep pockets and a high tolerance for pain. There are already not nearly enough good pro-style quarterbacks to go around just for NFL teams. A new league would probably have to differentiate itself by emphasizing the dual threat QB style that less talented college teams use to stay competitive with the big dogs.

Bottom line is that they would need to be a discernably different product to have a chance at survival. And that difference would have to be seen on the field, not just in politics.

You don't go to only small/non-markets, you go to large markets, even if you don't play in the heart of town. But you need the media exposure that being in a New York or LA brings. But this isn't the 1960's or 80's, the NFL has reached a critical mass. Any challenger is sure to fail or at best be irrelevant. It's not even a guarantee the NFL will remain relevant in the coming decades. I think many are bored with or turned off politically by it.
12-28-2017 05:07 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Potential XFL return
(12-28-2017 04:53 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(12-28-2017 01:15 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Mods, can we please move this to the pro sports board??

Who cares? As long as the board isn't flooded with these, why does it matter?

There's a pro sports board?
12-28-2017 05:52 PM
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dbackjon Online
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Post: #38
RE: Potential XFL return
(12-28-2017 05:52 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(12-28-2017 04:53 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(12-28-2017 01:15 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Mods, can we please move this to the pro sports board??

Who cares? As long as the board isn't flooded with these, why does it matter?

There's a pro sports board?

Look under Lounge/Pro Sports
12-28-2017 06:57 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Potential XFL return
(12-26-2017 07:34 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  If a new league REALLY wanted to make a dent in the NFL ...

... make all player contracts GUARANTEED.

THAT would get a crap ton of "middle of the road" NFL players to make the jump. Those players have the most to gain from that kind of contract. And it would force the NFL to match that going forward.

That won’t happen. He doesn’t even guarantee the contracts on his day job.

But... I think the goal is not to take on the bro head to head, but to be more of a cod type league.
(This post was last modified: 12-29-2017 11:27 PM by adcorbett.)
12-29-2017 11:26 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Potential XFL return
With the announcement official today I have to dredge up this old thread.

I still think the best bets are cities that the NFL abandoned: St Louis, San Diego, and Oakland

Next you have to look at top 35 markets the NFL ignores: Orlando, San Antonio

Toss in a few smaller, but football rabid ones: Memphis, Birmingham, Salt Lake City

I think you also take a chance that you can generate some market penetration in a few really big markets with a focus on ones where football is very popular: Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, NYC

there you have it-- a 12 team XFL
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