It's a shame that sports requiring a lot of players w/ a limited amount of scholarships can leverage other financial resources (school directed academic schollies). Just another advantage the huge P5 schools have if that is in fact the case. I guess I was under the impression that there were safeguards against that.

(05-08-2018 10:12 AM)olddawg Wrote:  It's a shame that sports requiring a lot of players w/ a limited amount of scholarships can leverage other financial resources (school directed academic schollies). Just another advantage the huge P5 schools have if that is in fact the case. I guess I was under the impression that there were safeguards against that.

They still have to qualify for those other means be it academic or financial aid but they will definitely be steered that way if possible to preserve schollys for use on those that would be qualify for other means.

What use to be a very grey area is that you could combine and effectively double-dip with athletic scholarship $$$ and financial aid $$$. Unless the NCAA reversed the policy they closed that avenue about 5 or so years ago.

(05-08-2018 08:37 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 04:33 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 04:18 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 04:00 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 02:44 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  The recruiting cycle does hold water still, at the mid-major level. The only guys that leave after 3 years are your very best players at the CAA level. I think JMU had one junior that entered the draft last year, Kyle McPherson, which made sense for him, he was the only one good enough. Most players in the CAA and at JMU are there for 4 years.

Also keep in mind that this roster is very young, mostly Freshmen and Sophomores.

See the huge improvements Ike has done with the pitching staff in 3 years....I think he is making improvements. Now that the pitching staff is pretty good and the defense is better.....offense needs to catch back up.

I think the team ERA has come down from almost 7 to mid 3's in 3 years.

I would feel a lot different if the pitching had not turned the corner that it has.

You must be related to the coach.

“Most players” in the CAA are 4 year players? Hello! Most players in every D1 conference in the country are 4 year players, so what’s your point? That JMU will dramatically improve next season because our Sophomores and Juniors will turn into better players against teams going through the exact same progression? Sorry, that’s just an excuse.

I’ll give you that the recruits Ike inherited in year one were the result of whatever Spanky did (or did not do), but this is Ike’s 3rd year...and it looks very much as if it will be another losing season and another missed CAAT. Whatever progress Ike’s making hasn’t been fast enough.

Mediocrity is mediocrity, and that’s what JMU baseball is right now (and I’m being generous in making that assessment). JMU has decent facilities, and JMU fully funds the sport. “Mid-Major” label be dam Ed. JMU should be able to recruit against almost program in the country.

Accepting mediocrity isnt what anyone is advocating, so let’s not sugarcoat it by suggesting that next year is going to be the magic turnaround we’ve all been waiting for. There’s been no substantial progress in the W-L record. Hell, JMU can’t even make a 6 team CAAT! It’s frustrating and depressing. And let’s not forgot that doing the same thing year-after-year and expecting change is the classic definition of crazy. Let’s not be crazy.

Ike may be a great guy. Everyone seems to like him. He may be working hard too, and welcome in most Virginia Hign Schools. Again, nobody is saying he’s a slacker or unliked. Still, JMU is either not getting the players JMU needs, or they’re just not performing. JMU needs to change direction, and I think that change comes with a new HC.

Whatever dude......I seriously don't know why if you seem to have all the answers and evidently you think it so easy to fix a program (that was a train-wreck when Spanky left)....why do are not outside of Ike's office everyday telling him how to fix it. I mean come on if it is that easy just do it already.

I think you missed the whole point of the 4 year college baseball player. Since I don't think you really have a clue how college baseball is different than say Lax or Soccer where all the good players stay for 4 years. At the top level of college baseball (say top 40ish teams) the best players almost always enter the MLB draft b/c they would be idiots not too. That is something that typically does not happen at JMU, therefore it makes the 4 year recruiting cycle much more relevant vs a 3 year cycle at say UVA or FSU. What that means is if you have a bunch of guys that are say less talented due to Spanky not recruiting for the last couple of years prior to retiring you are kind of stuck with those guys and anyone he promised a scholarship (most likely a partial not a full there LH).....and since I am fairly certain no one likes it when a new Coach comes in and starts yanking scholarships you are stuck with who you have or who was recruited.

The results have been mediocre but much like with Lou Rowe if you are not willing to give a coach 4 years (a full recruiting cycle) that is dang tough. The incoming freshmen will be Ike's 3rd class that he has recruited.

And just so we are clear fully funded baseball team means you have I think 13 scholarships to divvy up.......it ain't like we got 25 guys getting full-rides.

And JMU cannot recruit against almost anyone......if you think that you are seriously clueless. All the top-50 programs in the country scoop up most of the stud Pitchers/SS/catchers/CFs.

You have zero credibility, but you make beautiful excuses for a coach with a mediocre record.

And for the record, JMU was a top 50 program before Spanky ran it into the ground during his last half-decade as HC. Look it up.

Oh that's right, I forgot I am getting lectured by 'the Great Longhorn'.....I have zero creditability b/c I do not agree with the opinions of 'the great one'.

Seriously dude you need to get over yourself. You state your opinions as if they are fact, then you bring up that JMU was a top 50 program about 10 years ago. Get a clue that is ancient history when it comes to the sports world. I can do you one better.....JMU went to the College World Series back in like 1983.

Call them excuses if you want but you are just highlighting the point that you think a program like JMU can just go out and grab talent in 1 or 2 recruiting cycles that can turn a program around on a dime when recruiting had been non-existent outside of the Valley area for the previous 3/4 season under Spanky.

A big part of college baseball recruiting is recruiting the travel ball circuit/showcase tournament play and JMU under Spanky was a 'no-show' at these events. It was a joke among the travel ball coaches that every school in VA would showup to recruit there except JMU. It takes a year or two to fix that image and get your program back in front of folks after being non-existent.

The only reason JMU wound up with their best player for the past 3 seasons prior to this year, Kyle Mcpherson.....was b/c Georgia Tech over recruited and extended too many offers and had to rescind their offer to him. Basically he fell into Spanky's lap b/c they he basically was left with no where else to go, it was not a recruiting coup.

Learn a little something about the process and how recruiting works for college baseball before opening your mouth again Longhorn. Perhaps you should just sit this one out and let the grown-ups discuss the matter.

You're an angry camper, and I'd suggest you take a chill pill. I have no idea how old you are, but you come across as an angry emo kid. I'm entitled to my opinion(s), and if you're challenged by them that's your problem, not mine.

I've written nothing but the facts. You on the other hand are living in a land based on making excuses for a floundering program. You've misstated scholarship limits (the same limits all fully-funded programs live with), have suggested JMU is incapable of competing for top 50 level athletes, and somehow think JMU talent has to have four years to develop into a competitive team. Funny stuff.

The truth is the right coach can recruit athletes that can regularly make JMU a regionally respected program in baseball. Ike has yet to show he can do that. Three losing years. Failure to make the CAAT in two of those three years. It's not a record that can be defended.

As I've already written Ike will get his fourth year, not that I would give it to him, and maybe that's what bothers you. Deal with it.

(05-07-2018 03:09 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Definitely deserves year 4 IMO, but it's put up or shut up time.

This was a poor hire. Yes he will get another year, but we just wasted 4 years for our baseball program.

We have another men’s sport in a similar position.

We have more than our share of very good coaches, but two hires that looked unimpressive (to be nice) when hired, have also faired with unimpressive results.

(05-08-2018 11:20 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(05-08-2018 08:37 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 04:33 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 04:18 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 04:00 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  You must be related to the coach.

“Most players” in the CAA are 4 year players? Hello! Most players in every D1 conference in the country are 4 year players, so what’s your point? That JMU will dramatically improve next season because our Sophomores and Juniors will turn into better players against teams going through the exact same progression? Sorry, that’s just an excuse.

I’ll give you that the recruits Ike inherited in year one were the result of whatever Spanky did (or did not do), but this is Ike’s 3rd year...and it looks very much as if it will be another losing season and another missed CAAT. Whatever progress Ike’s making hasn’t been fast enough.

Mediocrity is mediocrity, and that’s what JMU baseball is right now (and I’m being generous in making that assessment). JMU has decent facilities, and JMU fully funds the sport. “Mid-Major” label be dam Ed. JMU should be able to recruit against almost program in the country.

Accepting mediocrity isnt what anyone is advocating, so let’s not sugarcoat it by suggesting that next year is going to be the magic turnaround we’ve all been waiting for. There’s been no substantial progress in the W-L record. Hell, JMU can’t even make a 6 team CAAT! It’s frustrating and depressing. And let’s not forgot that doing the same thing year-after-year and expecting change is the classic definition of crazy. Let’s not be crazy.

Ike may be a great guy. Everyone seems to like him. He may be working hard too, and welcome in most Virginia Hign Schools. Again, nobody is saying he’s a slacker or unliked. Still, JMU is either not getting the players JMU needs, or they’re just not performing. JMU needs to change direction, and I think that change comes with a new HC.

Whatever dude......I seriously don't know why if you seem to have all the answers and evidently you think it so easy to fix a program (that was a train-wreck when Spanky left)....why do are not outside of Ike's office everyday telling him how to fix it. I mean come on if it is that easy just do it already.

I think you missed the whole point of the 4 year college baseball player. Since I don't think you really have a clue how college baseball is different than say Lax or Soccer where all the good players stay for 4 years. At the top level of college baseball (say top 40ish teams) the best players almost always enter the MLB draft b/c they would be idiots not too. That is something that typically does not happen at JMU, therefore it makes the 4 year recruiting cycle much more relevant vs a 3 year cycle at say UVA or FSU. What that means is if you have a bunch of guys that are say less talented due to Spanky not recruiting for the last couple of years prior to retiring you are kind of stuck with those guys and anyone he promised a scholarship (most likely a partial not a full there LH).....and since I am fairly certain no one likes it when a new Coach comes in and starts yanking scholarships you are stuck with who you have or who was recruited.

The results have been mediocre but much like with Lou Rowe if you are not willing to give a coach 4 years (a full recruiting cycle) that is dang tough. The incoming freshmen will be Ike's 3rd class that he has recruited.

And just so we are clear fully funded baseball team means you have I think 13 scholarships to divvy up.......it ain't like we got 25 guys getting full-rides.

And JMU cannot recruit against almost anyone......if you think that you are seriously clueless. All the top-50 programs in the country scoop up most of the stud Pitchers/SS/catchers/CFs.

You have zero credibility, but you make beautiful excuses for a coach with a mediocre record.

And for the record, JMU was a top 50 program before Spanky ran it into the ground during his last half-decade as HC. Look it up.

Oh that's right, I forgot I am getting lectured by 'the Great Longhorn'.....I have zero creditability b/c I do not agree with the opinions of 'the great one'.

Seriously dude you need to get over yourself. You state your opinions as if they are fact, then you bring up that JMU was a top 50 program about 10 years ago. Get a clue that is ancient history when it comes to the sports world. I can do you one better.....JMU went to the College World Series back in like 1983.

Call them excuses if you want but you are just highlighting the point that you think a program like JMU can just go out and grab talent in 1 or 2 recruiting cycles that can turn a program around on a dime when recruiting had been non-existent outside of the Valley area for the previous 3/4 season under Spanky.

A big part of college baseball recruiting is recruiting the travel ball circuit/showcase tournament play and JMU under Spanky was a 'no-show' at these events. It was a joke among the travel ball coaches that every school in VA would showup to recruit there except JMU. It takes a year or two to fix that image and get your program back in front of folks after being non-existent.

The only reason JMU wound up with their best player for the past 3 seasons prior to this year, Kyle Mcpherson.....was b/c Georgia Tech over recruited and extended too many offers and had to rescind their offer to him. Basically he fell into Spanky's lap b/c they he basically was left with no where else to go, it was not a recruiting coup.

Learn a little something about the process and how recruiting works for college baseball before opening your mouth again Longhorn. Perhaps you should just sit this one out and let the grown-ups discuss the matter.

You're an angry camper, and I'd suggest you take a chill pill. I have no idea how old you are, but you come across as an angry emo kid. I'm entitled to my opinion(s), and if you're challenged by them that's your problem, not mine.

I've written nothing but the facts. You on the other hand are living in a land based on making excuses for a floundering program. You've misstated scholarship limits (the same limits all fully-funded programs live with), have suggested JMU is incapable of competing for top 50 level athletes, and somehow think JMU talent has to have four years to develop into a competitive team. Funny stuff.

The truth is the right coach can recruit athletes that can regularly make JMU a regionally respected program in baseball. Ike has yet to show he can do that. Three losing years. Failure to make the CAAT in two of those three years. It's not a record that can be defended.

As I've already written Ike will get his fourth year, not that I would give it to him, and maybe that's what bothers you. Deal with it.

LOL, you really are a joke and a pompous A$$........oddly enough you come off as an entitled, liberal arts university professor who has no clue how the world outside of academia actually works. If that is not your profession you would fit in nicely such a setting.

(05-08-2018 11:30 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 03:09 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Definitely deserves year 4 IMO, but it's put up or shut up time.

This was a poor hire. Yes he will get another year, but we just wasted 4 years for our baseball program.

We have another men’s sport in a similar position.

We have more than our share of very good coaches, but two hires that looked unimpressive (to be nice) when hired, have also faired with unimpressive results.

Part of me wonders if the cheap hires in MBB & Baseball are part of an intentional scheme to balance Mr. King's budget.

(05-08-2018 01:02 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  

(05-08-2018 11:30 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 03:09 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Definitely deserves year 4 IMO, but it's put up or shut up time.

This was a poor hire. Yes he will get another year, but we just wasted 4 years for our baseball program.

We have another men’s sport in a similar position.

We have more than our share of very good coaches, but two hires that looked unimpressive (to be nice) when hired, have also faired with unimpressive results.

Part of me wonders if the cheap hires in MBB & Baseball are part of an intentional scheme to balance Mr. King's budget.

Me too. Maybe had to borrow from Peter to pay Paul. Withers wasn't cheap and HCMH keeps hitting almost all of his bonuses.

(05-08-2018 01:02 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  

(05-08-2018 11:30 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 03:09 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Definitely deserves year 4 IMO, but it's put up or shut up time.

This was a poor hire. Yes he will get another year, but we just wasted 4 years for our baseball program.

We have another men’s sport in a similar position.

We have more than our share of very good coaches, but two hires that looked unimpressive (to be nice) when hired, have also faired with unimpressive results.

Part of me wonders if the cheap hires in MBB & Baseball are part of an intentional scheme to balance Mr. King's budget.

That thought has crossed my mind several times. Sacrifice a few programs for the benefit of others.

(05-08-2018 11:20 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  You're an angry camper, and I'd suggest you take a chill pill. I have no idea how old you are, but you come across as an angry emo kid. I'm entitled to my opinion(s), and if you're challenged by them that's your problem, not mine.

I've written nothing but the facts. You on the other hand are living in a land based on making excuses for a floundering program. You've misstated scholarship limits (the same limits all fully-funded programs live with), have suggested JMU is incapable of competing for top 50 level athletes, and somehow think JMU talent has to have four years to develop into a competitive team. Funny stuff.

The truth is the right coach can recruit athletes that can regularly make JMU a regionally respected program in baseball. Ike has yet to show he can do that. Three losing years. Failure to make the CAAT in two of those three years. It's not a record that can be defended.

As I've already written Ike will get his fourth year, not that I would give it to him, and maybe that's what bothers you. Deal with it.

Nothing like a spin on the Longhorn schizophrenia express to nowhere.

Dukes lead @#5 NCState 4-2 in the 5th on WatchESPN

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using CSNbbs mobile app

Tied 4-4 thru 5. NC State hit a 2-run dinger to tie it in the btm 5th.

Colon replaced Bechtold.

https://www.backingthepack.com/nc-state-...ison-dukes

Backing the Pack is a good site for all things NC State. They did a pretty good preview of the two midweek games.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Still tied at 4 in top 8th. Good Guys hanging in there.

Dukes give up 2 big runs in btm 8th...now down 6-4 heading to top of the 9th.

Dukes got 2 guys on with no outs in the top of the 9th but a fly ball and DP later with no runs finishes it in Raleigh. Pack wins 6-4.

Story of the season... so close, but can't quite pull it out.

I have shared this opinion before but when it comes to hiring talent you get what you paid for and JB and CK went cheap on the MBB hire and baseball hire and the results speak for themselves. In both cases we allegedly garnered interest from top UVA assistance only to low ball these candidates and have them walk away. In both instances we could not pony up enough money to attract quality candidates so we had to use a fall back plan - hire an alumnus to run the MBB program and hire a recently fired coach who has been out of the game for a few years. If I recall correctly, at the time we offered the job to Ike he had been out of coaching for two or three years.

Having top notch facilities is nice but being able to attract quality coaches through competitive compensation is more important than facilities in my opinion as a good coaches can do more with less.

Ike resigned in 2014 to take on a business role at ARMS, which makes software that helps manage athletic departments. He had been out for about two years.

http://armssoftware.com/

(05-09-2018 08:32 AM)Rock House Duke Wrote:  I have shared this opinion before but when it comes to hiring talent you get what you paid for and JB and CK went cheap on the MBB hire and baseball hire and the results speak for themselves. In both cases we allegedly garnered interest from top UVA assistance only to low ball these candidates and have them walk away. In both instances we could not pony up enough money to attract quality candidates so we had to use a fall back plan - hire an alumnus to run the MBB program and hire a recently fired coach who has been out of the game for a few years. If I recall correctly, at the time we offered the job to Ike he had been out of coaching for two or three years.

Having top notch facilities is nice but being able to attract quality coaches through competitive compensation is more important than facilities in my opinion as a good coaches can do more with less.

Rock House:

How much money do you believe JMU has to pay coaches? Why is it some on here continue to complain about how much JMU pays coaches? Athletics at JMU loses money. While it would be nice to have the tens of millions the P5 schools have, we don’t.

JMU is doing all it can to move revenues higher by building first rate facilities to attract first rate athletes in hopes people will buy tickets and make donations so they can then pay higher coaches salaries.

I wish some of you complainers could please take just a moment and learn simple math. You can’t spend more than you have. Sources need to equal or exceed uses.

I can promise you Charlie King understands finance better than anyone on these boards. It is the one area I would never criticize him about. He likely is a victim of his own success. How he has found the funding for the build out of our campus continues to amaze me.

I am cool if you want to criticize the hire but please, don’t use salary as a source of discussion. I also don’t want to hear the you have to spend money to make money argument either. JMU baseball did not make money back in years it won the CAA either.

Ike has a top notch facility to recruit to. He needs to get it done or it will be next man up.

(05-09-2018 01:08 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 08:32 AM)Rock House Duke Wrote:  I have shared this opinion before but when it comes to hiring talent you get what you paid for and JB and CK went cheap on the MBB hire and baseball hire and the results speak for themselves. In both cases we allegedly garnered interest from top UVA assistance only to low ball these candidates and have them walk away. In both instances we could not pony up enough money to attract quality candidates so we had to use a fall back plan - hire an alumnus to run the MBB program and hire a recently fired coach who has been out of the game for a few years. If I recall correctly, at the time we offered the job to Ike he had been out of coaching for two or three years.

Having top notch facilities is nice but being able to attract quality coaches through competitive compensation is more important than facilities in my opinion as a good coaches can do more with less.

Rock House:

How much money do you believe JMU has to pay coaches? Why is it some on here continue to complain about how much JMU pays coaches? Athletics at JMU loses money. While it would be nice to have the tens of millions the P5 schools have, we don’t.

JMU is doing all it can to move revenues higher by building first rate facilities to attract first rate athletes in hopes people will buy tickets and make donations so they can then pay higher coaches salaries.

I wish some of you complainers could please take just a moment and learn simple math. You can’t spend more than you have. Sources need to equal or exceed uses.

I can promise you Charlie King understands finance better than anyone on these boards. It is the one area I would never criticize him about. He likely is a victim of his own success. How he has found the funding for the build out of our campus continues to amaze me.

I am cool if you want to criticize the hire but please, don’t use salary as a source of discussion. I also don’t want to hear the you have to spend money to make money argument either. JMU baseball did not make money back in years it won the CAA either.

Ike has a top notch facility to recruit to. He needs to get it done or it will be next man up.

I can agree with everything you wrote...up to the point when you suggest that coaches salaries shouldn't be a point of discussion.

Yes, JMU doesn't make money supporting its varsity athletic programs. Truth be told, there's not one JMU sport that makes money, or comes close to it. If making money was the criteria then by that logic JMU should get out of the business altogether.

Football sells tickets, and MBB and WBB sell tickets...and baseball and softball and Lax do not. All together the entire program is really supported by student fees.

The real question (and it's fair to discuss this question) is what is the cost of providing quality leadership (coaching) in each sport? It seems penny-wise and pound foolish to me to build great facilities and than get thrifty when it comes to paying the price for quality coaching.

I'm not arguing for trying to compete with P5 salaries, and I realize JMU will always lose successful coaches to programs higher on the food chain. JMU has a budget it must live within, and yet I'm not convinced JMU did itself any favors by saving a few dollars in MBB and BB.