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What's wrong with Wichita State Basketball?
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Hurricane Drummer Offline
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Post: #21
RE: What's wrong with Wichita State Basketball?
(01-22-2018 08:19 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  They're in a conference where they have to show up pretty much every night, that's what.

^ This is it.
01-22-2018 08:28 PM
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UofMemphis Away
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Post: #22
RE: What's wrong with Wichita State Basketball?
(01-22-2018 07:09 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  What's wrong with suddenly skidding Wichita State?

Quote:Wichita State started the week with a 15-2 record and ranked No. 7 in the nation. Now, after back-to-back losses at SMU and Houston, the Shockers are left wondering what exactly has gone wrong.
...

Two-game losing streaks are never fun for a top-10 team. Still, if Wichita State merely plays to its potential on defense and gets McDuffie up to speed, this group can look a lot more like the "old" Wichita State in a hurry. Keep an eye on the Shockers.

I'm going to submit that the Shockers spent too much time admiring their pretty shooting and their pretty rankings and forgot what got them to this point, which was angry play and ugly defense. Last week they bumped into a couple teams who were hungry as hell and jealous of the Shockers success. They were willing to trade their lives for the win hoping it would make their season. We ended up being out-angried which has been sobering to say the least to most of the knowledgeable Shocker fans I've talked to.

The Shox seem to have temporarily lost their edge. They're too white collar now and need to trade in their Diner's Club cards for lunch buckets and get back to eating Big Macs instead of boeuf bourguignon.

Discuss.


Or not.


T


...03-cool

03-lmfao welcome to the AAC...
01-22-2018 08:30 PM
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Bearcats#1 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: What's wrong with Wichita State Basketball?
There is nothing wrong with WSU hoops.

The answer is really simple: The American conference is a lot harder than the MVC. Top to bottom it isnt even close. For the record we tried to tell you this before conference play started and you laughed at us and thought it was all a big joke. The AAC teams are punching you guys in the mouth and you
have lost games you werent expecting to lose. No need to be sad and wondering what’s happened. Listen next time.

Spoiler alert: more loses coming...
(This post was last modified: 01-22-2018 08:38 PM by Bearcats#1.)
01-22-2018 08:37 PM
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payday Offline
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Post: #24
RE: What's wrong with Wichita State Basketball?
(01-22-2018 08:37 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  There is nothing wrong with WSU hoops.

The answer is really simple: The American conference is a lot harder than the MVC. Top to bottom it isnt even close.

For the record we tried to tell you this before conference play started and you laughed at us and thought it was all a big joke. The AAC teams are punching you guys in the mouth and you
have lost games you werent expecting to lose. No need to be sad and wondering what’s happened. Listen next time.

Spoiler alert: more loses coming...

Yup...
01-22-2018 08:38 PM
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UofMemphis Away
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Post: #25
RE: What's wrong with Wichita State Basketball?
(01-22-2018 08:37 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  There is nothing wrong with WSU hoops.

The answer is really simple: The American conference is a lot harder than the MVC. Top to bottom it isnt even close. For the record we tried to tell you this before conference play started and you laughed at us and thought it was all a big joke. The AAC teams are punching you guys in the mouth and you
have lost games you werent expecting to lose. No need to be sad and wondering what’s happened. Listen next time.

Spoiler alert: more loses coming...

yep, they'll figure it out eventually.
01-22-2018 08:39 PM
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TripleA Offline
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Post: #26
RE: What's wrong with Wichita State Basketball?
Good grief. How many times are Wichita fans going to start the same thread?

Nothing wrong with Wichita. Same cast as last year. Sooner or later, maybe they will realize the only change was the conference.
(This post was last modified: 01-22-2018 08:42 PM by TripleA.)
01-22-2018 08:41 PM
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payday Offline
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Post: #27
RE: What's wrong with Wichita State Basketball?
(01-22-2018 08:41 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Good grief. How many times are Wichita fans going to start the same thread?

How many more conference games do they have?
01-22-2018 08:43 PM
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AndShock Offline
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Post: #28
RE: What's wrong with Wichita State Basketball?
Would anyone like to provide a list of MVC games last year that we would have lost if the same caliber team showed up during an AAC game?
01-22-2018 08:44 PM
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Post: #29
RE: What's wrong with Wichita State Basketball?
(01-22-2018 08:44 PM)AndShock Wrote:  Would anyone like to provide a list of MVC games last year that we would have lost if the same caliber team showed up during an AAC game?

03-lmfao denial...it's not just a river in Egypt, folks...
01-22-2018 08:49 PM
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Bearcats#1 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: What's wrong with Wichita State Basketball?
(01-22-2018 08:44 PM)AndShock Wrote:  Would anyone like to provide a list of MVC games last year that we would have lost if the same caliber team showed up during an AAC game?

Nobody needs to.

Get it in your thick heads...the AAC is a high major conference. You arent going to just shown up and go 17-1 or whatever like you are used to. You guys are used to having a lot more talent than the other teams in the conference. The fact is you don’t now. Talent is going be pretty even from your team vs other AAC teams and you’re going to have to put in effort and focus every game and that isnt something your team is used to having to do night in and night out. Sure you did it when you had a big out of conference game or ncaa game but now you have to do it every game and there’s a big difference there. Cincinnati learn that when we joined the Big East.
01-22-2018 08:49 PM
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payday Offline
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Post: #31
RE: What's wrong with Wichita State Basketball?
Same ones you have and will yet lose to this year
01-22-2018 08:50 PM
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AndShock Offline
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Post: #32
RE: What's wrong with Wichita State Basketball?
For the record we were 5-0 in B games last year with our lowest MoV being 9 points. This year we’re 2-1 including a 3 point victory over Tulsa. If we were to lose every single A game in the AAC I would buy the “AAC toughness” argument. But when we are struggling in games that are considered in the same tier as last year, either KenPom is a fraud or we’re worse than last year. Take your pick.
01-22-2018 08:58 PM
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HuskyU Offline
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Post: #33
RE: What's wrong with Wichita State Basketball?
(01-22-2018 08:58 PM)AndShock Wrote:  For the record we were 5-0 in B games last year with our lowest MoV being 9 points. This year we’re 2-1 including a 3 point victory over Tulsa. If we were to lose every single A game in the AAC I would buy the “AAC toughness” argument. But when we are struggling in games that are considered in the same tier as last year, either KenPom is a fraud or we’re worse than last year. Take your pick.

It's pretty clear. Your Waterboys haven't lived up to the hype.
01-22-2018 09:00 PM
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pesik Online
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Post: #34
RE: What's wrong with Wichita State Basketball?
(01-22-2018 08:58 PM)AndShock Wrote:  For the record we were 5-0 in B games last year with our lowest MoV being 9 points. This year we’re 2-1 including a 3 point victory over Tulsa. If we were to lose every single A game in the AAC I would buy the “AAC toughness” argument. But when we are struggling in games that are considered in the same tier as last year, either KenPom is a fraud or we’re worse than last year. Take your pick.

tulsa beat kstate...tulsa is way better than last year...
01-22-2018 09:06 PM
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AndShock Offline
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Post: #35
RE: What's wrong with Wichita State Basketball?
(01-22-2018 09:06 PM)pesik Wrote:  
(01-22-2018 08:58 PM)AndShock Wrote:  For the record we were 5-0 in B games last year with our lowest MoV being 9 points. This year we’re 2-1 including a 3 point victory over Tulsa. If we were to lose every single A game in the AAC I would buy the “AAC toughness” argument. But when we are struggling in games that are considered in the same tier as last year, either KenPom is a fraud or we’re worse than last year. Take your pick.

tulsa beat kstate...tulsa is way better than last year...

Cool.
01-22-2018 09:07 PM
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C0|db|00ded Offline
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Post: #36
RE: What's wrong with Wichita State Basketball?
****INSECURITY ALERT****

Shoot! This thread has taken a decided turn for the worse!

This is why I created the Outrageous Claims thread - so the AAC fans who are hurting could placate themselves by throwing darts at Me and Company.

This is a serious thread. The Shockers are off their game and the Shocker fans on here want to know if anybody can spot the wrench that is jamming our gears.

Shocker players call it sluggishness.

I think they've grown soft and spoiled. That 70 pt. beatdown of Houston appears to be the point where the Shockers decided it would be okay to cruise through this conference with their "B" game. To have Brett Barney on the floor raping the Coogz like a YMCA club must have blown a fuse somewhere. I have no other explanation.

Observations? Comments? Suggestions?

Thanks in advance!


T


...03-cool
01-22-2018 09:10 PM
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Post: #37
RE: What's wrong with Wichita State Basketball?
and they still have to go play @Temple, @Memphis, @Cincy, @SMU, and @UCF

their introduction to life in the AAC is not yet complete...then comes the AAC Tourney.

should be fun!
01-22-2018 09:12 PM
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payday Offline
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Post: #38
RE: What's wrong with Wichita State Basketball?
AAC fans are hurting? Last I saw, UH and SMU just kicked WSU arse, Cincy replaced WSU in the Top 10, and you were supposedly gone from here forever...and looking for the nearest bar.
01-22-2018 09:14 PM
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pesik Online
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Post: #39
RE: What's wrong with Wichita State Basketball?
(01-22-2018 07:45 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  Any chance we could shelve the silly comments about the Shockers getting woke in a vastly superior conference for just one single thread? Everybody on the planet save for a few AAC homers and self-deprecating Shocker posters who are trolling me, know that our team isn't playing up to snuff lately.

Anybody have any honest critiques or unique observations regarding what the Shox need to improve upon? I guess you would have to have seen us play a few games as our normal selves to be able to make an educated contribution. If you only saw us play the SMU and UH games you would think our team is made of wet paper bags. But I can assure you, the real Shockers dictate physicality, they are not dictated to.

Comments I would prefer hearing sound like the following - "Man, I saw the Shockers in the NCAA tournament _ _ _ _ year playing against _ _ _ _ and they were just relentless. It got to the point where the opposing team was afraid to even dribble the ball. On one play their 5-star PG appeared to just throw it out of bounds in a sign of protest as all his teammates were covered. It really seemed like it was 8 vs. 5 on the floor at times!

Thanks in advance!


T


...03-cool

ill bite.. literally every person not a wsu homer is saying that its the league play

tons of non aac homer with no relation to the aac have made comments like these

Quote:Jon Rothstein
Verified account

Wichita State already has half the amount of regular season conference losses (two) as it had during its past four years in the MVC. American is a different breed of cattle.

the announcer at the end of the houston wichita game, didnt say wichita was playing bad they said wsu doesnt see teams like smu and houston in the mvc..
here is the link. it should start where they start talking about it..but if it doesnt skip to 1:35:10
https://youtu.be/S4Ut2O1EbL8?t=1h35m11s


But for a real critique on Wichita basketball
Defense
- you only have 1 top level defender on your team (zach brown) but he is too slow to guards points and 2s...any team that has a scoring guard that can move is having field day on wichita
- frankamp and reaves are borderline liabilities on defense but weirdly enough are the ones guarding the best players of opposing teams ..shamet is good on defense but he isnt shut down..you wont get an easy shot with him but you can get shot if you work on him, he isnt selling out on any ply..
- morris is slow. smu and houston ran picks to switch on him,and then shot the ball when morris was coming over as was too slow to get to there in time

not saying Wichita is a bad defensive team they have a good system defense with the pressure, double teams and full court press. they know ho to force teams into mistakes..but individually their isnt any shutdown player for Wichita not brown ....if there is a guard put on an island with the ball in his hand to win it (cant get help), i wouldn't feel comfortable with any Wichita guards to stop him

on offense
Wichita is an amazing passing team, with top level shooters ...but doesnt have a slasher or driver/cutter..they are making great passes from outside the 3 point line...there isnt anyone driving in and beating defenders and swinging it out

that is the difficulty of playing in a better league. when you play good teams your weaknesses come out more...the more good teams you play the more film there is of your weakness

normally when you pressure guards like houston did on wsu, a slasher or driver would blow by them (or create set play using picks to get them lanes to drives) either giving them open layup or draw other defenders to get other players open...

when we pressured wichita they either took bad shots or tried to force a pass, the risk of being punished and blown by isnt there

houston's point guard galen robinson is the exact opposite he is a very fast slasher who cant shoot, so teams give him a 10 yard cushion and never pressure him. they dont guard him till he gets in the paint and use whoever is guarding him as help for others because there is film that shows he wont punish you for that s he has no outside shot...
(This post was last modified: 01-22-2018 09:32 PM by pesik.)
01-22-2018 09:21 PM
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payday Offline
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Post: #40
RE: What's wrong with Wichita State Basketball?
(01-22-2018 09:21 PM)pesik Wrote:  
(01-22-2018 07:45 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  Any chance we could shelve the silly comments about the Shockers getting woke in a vastly superior conference for just one single thread? Everybody on the planet save for a few AAC homers and self-deprecating Shocker posters who are trolling me, know that our team isn't playing up to snuff lately.

Anybody have any honest critiques or unique observations regarding what the Shox need to improve upon? I guess you would have to have seen us play a few games as our normal selves to be able to make an educated contribution. If you only saw us play the SMU and UH games you would think our team is made of wet paper bags. But I can assure you, the real Shockers dictate physicality, they are not dictated to.

Comments I would prefer hearing sound like the following - "Man, I saw the Shockers in the NCAA tournament _ _ _ _ year playing against _ _ _ _ and they were just relentless. It got to the point where the opposing team was afraid to even dribble the ball. On one play their 5-star PG appeared to just throw it out of bounds in a sign of protest as all his teammates were covered. It really seemed like it was 8 vs. 5 on the floor at times!

Thanks in advance!


T


...03-cool

ill bite.. literally every person not a wsu homer is saying that its the league play

tons of non aac homer with no relation to the aac have made comments like these

Quote:Jon Rothstein
Verified account

Wichita State already has half the amount of regular season conference losses (two) as it had during its past four years in the MVC. American is a different breed of cattle.

the announcer at the end of the houston wichita game, didnt say wichita was playing bad they said wsu doesnt see teams like smu and houston in the mvc..
here is the link. it should start where they start talking about it..but if it doesnt skip to 1:35:10
https://youtu.be/S4Ut2O1EbL8?t=1h35m11s


but for a real critique on Wichita basketball...
- you only have 1 top level defender on your team (zach brown) but he is too slow to guards points and 2s...any team that has a scoring guard that can move is having field day on wichita
- frankamp and reaves are borderline liabilities on defense but weirdly enough are the ones guarding the best players of opposing teams ..shamet is good on defense but he isnt shut down..you wont get an easy shot with him but you can get shot if you work on him, he isnt selling out on any ply..
- morris is slow. smu and houston ran picks to switch on him,and then shot the ball when morris was coming over as was too slow to get to there in time

not saying Wichita is a bad defensive team they have a good system defense with the pressure, double teams and full court press. they know ho to force teams into mistakes..but individually their isnt any shutdown player for Wichita not brown ....if there is a guard put on an island with the ball in his hand to win it (cant get help), i wouldn't feel comfortable with any Wichita guards to stop him

on offense
Wichita is an amazing passing team, with top level shooters ...but lacks doesnt have a slasher or cutter..they are making great passes from outside the 3 point line...there isnt anyone driving in and beating defenders and swinging it out

that is the difficulty of playing in better league. when you play good teams your weaknesses come out more...the more good teams you play the more film there is of your weakness

normally when you pressure guards like houston did, a slasher or driver would blow by them (or create set play using picks to get them lanes to drives) either giving them open layup or draw other defenders...
when you pressure wichita they either took bad shots or tried to force a pass, the risk of being punished and blown by isnt there

houston's point guard galen robinson is the exact opposite he is a very fast slasher who cant shoot, so teams give him a 10 yard cushion and never pressure him. they dont guard him till he gets in the paint and use whoever is guarding him as help for others because there is film that shows he wont punish you for that s he has no outside shot...

Great analysis. Especially the playing in the AAC part. ;-)
01-22-2018 09:25 PM
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