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The Wall
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arkstfan Away
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Post: #21
RE: The Wall
Just by going to the trouble of getting here illegals show more initiative than a huge number of our citizens.
01-30-2018 12:39 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #22
RE: The Wall
(01-30-2018 11:34 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(01-30-2018 11:25 AM)Crebman Wrote:  
(01-30-2018 01:08 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(01-29-2018 09:23 PM)bullet Wrote:  To borrow a theme from the conference realignment board, you admit new members who are better than the average and provide benefit to your current citizens. You don't add at the bottom of the group.

The owners of fruit and vegetable farms and chicken processing plants would disagree.


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Well, I agree that we need farm workers, but according to the link, only about 4 percent of illegals are doing farm work....

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/43...s-debunked

From the article:

Most illegals do not work in agriculture — only about 4 percent of the illegal-immigrant population is employed in farming. In no state is farming the predominant occupation of illegal immigrants; even in places such as California, where labor-intensive fruit-and-vegetable farming attracts a relatively large illegal workforce, the main occupations of illegals are in hospitality (restaurants and hotels), services, and transportation.

Those people provide benefit to US citizens as that is about the only job illegals do that is impossible to get enough Americans to do. And that can be handled through seasonal programs.

Americans were doing those agricultural jobs before the illegals came in and took them. I know because I was one of those Americans doing the job when I would assist a family friend with seasonal work. We never had a problem with staffing either. A large farm here was fined $1 million a few years back and has since hired only Americans or legal immigrants and they don't have any trouble filling positions.

Now if you had said that Americans will not do the job for slave wages like illegals I would agree, but to say Americans will not do those jobs is patently false.
01-30-2018 09:21 PM
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aTxTIGER Online
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Post: #23
RE: The Wall
(01-29-2018 11:12 AM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  
(01-27-2018 10:20 AM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  Most people coming here now illegally are just overstaying their visas. If you want to spend 25 billion(that we don't really have to spend) to be the most effective, then use that 25 billion to track people on expiring visas. Border wall is just an inefficient way to spend 25 billion if your goal is to limit people being in this country unlawfully.

I'd rather spend twice as much to prevent people from crossing illegally than "track" individuals. You start "tracking" aliens, pretty soon it starts sounding like a good idea to track citizens.

Of course, I realize that they do that now with smart phone usage, etc. But one can still choose to be anonymous if one wishes.

But a wall wont keep most people here illegally out.....unless you put those walls around the airports they fly into.
01-31-2018 10:49 AM
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ClairtonPanther Offline
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Post: #24
RE: The Wall
The wall is essentially a band-aid when you need a tourniquet.

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02-05-2018 02:58 PM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #25
RE: The Wall
(01-30-2018 12:39 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Just by going to the trouble of getting here illegals show more initiative than a huge number of our citizens.
My mother, who is in her 90's made a comment the other day. "None of these people on this street work except for the Mexicans."

Some of the Mexicans on her street bought a couple of ramshackle eyesore houses (in addition to the one they are living in) and slowly, very slowly, reconstructed them. They are going to own the neighborhood. And it looks a lot better.

Seems like they are aware of the American Dream.

Now I am definitely in favor of immigration reform, a "wall" in certain places, and cracking down on illegal aliens and their exploiters. But the idea that they are all a burden..or that we should only let in computer programmers..is short-sighted.

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02-16-2018 10:16 AM
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Zombiewoof Offline
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Post: #26
RE: The Wall
I have no problem with effectively constructed walls in populated border areas, such as San Diego and El Paso. One of the biggest issues that I have with the border wall is inefficiency. I don't believe that it is an efficient means of discouraging illegal immigration. For that amount of money, we could employ 24 hour surveillance along the sections of the border without walls for years. I think technology would serve us better than a physical wall. Beyond that, as has been stated by others, those overstaying HB-1 visas hasn't been dealt with in an effective manner either. Enforcement uses no common sense as well. INS spends resources deporting business owners and people who have lived here with no real ties to their country of origin while obvious populations of illegals live in open defiance and make no effort to assimilate.

IMHO, the solutions are easier if we stop looking at the problems myopically. We are crying about illegal immigration decades after the policies that could have slowed it might have worked. We are rushing to "close the barn door" and in so doing are sidestepping the issues that need to be addressed. While I share the concerns some have expressed, we need to know who is here. The phrase undocumented isn't just a pejorative; it means we must identify those people who are living within our borders. If we started right now and had the will to do so, we couldn't deport everyone that is here without proper documentation for many years, if at all. So it should be clear that the solutions being offered by our politicians, whether it be DACA or the wall, are negligent and band aids at best. Common sense should dictate that we need a sensible long term plan that encompasses border security and an effective means of dealing with those already here. Simply howling at the moon and shouting "deport them all" may make you feel better, but it really isn't a workable solution.
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2018 09:14 AM by Zombiewoof.)
02-17-2018 09:11 AM
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bullet Offline
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Post: #27
RE: The Wall
(02-17-2018 09:11 AM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  I have no problem with effectively constructed walls in populated border areas, such as San Diego and El Paso. One of the biggest issues that I have with the border wall is inefficiency. I don't believe that it is an efficient means of discouraging illegal immigration. For that amount of money, we could employ 24 hour surveillance along the sections of the border without walls for years. I think technology would serve us better than a physical wall. Beyond that, as has been stated by others, those overstaying HB-1 visas hasn't been dealt with in an effective manner either. Enforcement uses no common sense as well. INS spends resources deporting business owners and people who have lived here with no real ties to their country of origin while obvious populations of illegals live in open defiance and make no effort to assimilate.

IMHO, the solutions are easier if we stop looking at the problems myopically. We are crying about illegal immigration decades after the policies that could have slowed it might have worked. We are rushing to "close the barn door" and in so doing are sidestepping the issues that need to be addressed. While I share the concerns some have expressed, we need to know who is here. The phrase undocumented isn't just a pejorative; it means we must identify those people who are living within our borders. If we started right now and had the will to do so, we couldn't deport everyone that is here without proper documentation for many years, if at all. So it should be clear that the solutions being offered by our politicians, whether it be DACA or the wall, are negligent and band aids at best. Common sense should dictate that we need a sensible long term plan that encompasses border security and an effective means of dealing with those already here. Simply howling at the moon and shouting "deport them all" may make you feel better, but it really isn't a workable solution.

Walls can't be bribed. And they don't take coffee breaks.
02-17-2018 09:04 PM
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tigersroll Offline
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Post: #28
RE: The Wall
Who's gonna pay for the wall????
02-22-2018 07:58 PM
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NIU007 Online
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Post: #29
RE: The Wall
What bugs me the most is all the crap Trump said about Mexico paying for it, while we all knew they weren't going to. It was rather insulting.

To me it's like the gun issue. You can take that step, and it might make it a little harder for people. It would probably improve the situation marginally but won't come close to solving it. Only question is whether it's worth the cost.
02-23-2018 03:54 PM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #30
RE: The Wall
I'm a simple guy that was once a design engineer....

you fund and build the wall where req'd coupled with technology.....you then modify and adapt as req'd where the initial plan didn't factor in the unforeseeable

25B is a drop in the bucket in relative terms for a permanent deterrent that will provide a reduction in manpower and lives lost in the long run....

all this bs about simply hiring more labor is the dumbest move possible.....

oh yeah, let's give Iran a couple of B to help their 'nuculer' situation......and that's only on of many wasteful distributions our 'Jimmy Carter policies' have grown into...

it's amazing how stupid people are relative to prioritization.....

other than keeping the USD solvent, protecting our border is the next in line....

shoot holes in it if you want.....
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2018 03:05 AM by stinkfist.)
02-26-2018 03:02 AM
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