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Proposal to let athletes transfer instantly after a coaching change picks up steam
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Attackcoog Online
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Post: #41
RE: Proposal to let athletes transfer instantly after a coaching change picks up steam
(02-01-2018 02:08 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(02-01-2018 11:53 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The problem I see is---even if a team gets extra scholarships for lost transfers--we are talking about losing not only your coach, your staff---but also established kids with experience in the program. Its going to be very hard to avoid a massive drop off every time a coach leaves.

I'd be sympathetic to the schools and whatever risk they assume were they to actually guarantee scholarships universally. If you did, and the kid decides to take a walk, now you can attach governance that gives some stipulations, because the kid is literally walking away from a full commitment.

As is, yeah, there are some scenarios where the wait time is negated, but most of the other rules already serve the school. And, really, does doing this for the kids, now we have to think about the schools' risks again?!

Get better at recruiting, and get smarter with it, I say. And stop giving scholarships to kids who don't belong at your school. Or, stop with the doublespeak at these schools where one year they want you, and the next they don't because a coach says so...as in, vet your coaches and force them to keep the kids...and if not, simply don't hire the guy. Why is that so hard?

UUmmmm---the kid picks the school. Not the other way around. Hell, he can walk on anywhere for that matter.

To be fair, I actually suggested a fix that helps protect the schools while actually giving MORE student athletes additional options to move around. My suggestion was to let players from ANY school transfer without sitting out if they transfer to a school that LOST its coach. How does that in any way hurt the student athlete?
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2018 02:28 PM by Attackcoog.)
02-01-2018 02:27 PM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #42
Proposal to let athletes transfer instantly after a coaching change picks up steam
You're a G5 and take a chance on a 2-star, you invest in coaches to develop them, you invest in stipends, you invest in scholarships, you invest in tutors, you invest in a training table, you invest in housing. He becomes a star.

Then his coach gets poached by an SEC team and other P5's come sniffing around and poach HIM. They get a fully-developed star that they spent zero effort developing...and the G5 gets a wasted investment.

His teammates...also student athletes...who aren't poachable..or stay loyal....lose a chance at what they've been working towards because...not only did they lose a coach...they lost key on-field elements too.

At least farm teams get compensated for their development of players.



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02-01-2018 05:00 PM
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chess Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Proposal to let athletes transfer instantly after a coaching change picks up steam
What a mess? Who holds the risk of a coach's flight to another school? The current school.

This could destroy a school's athletic program. With Frost leaving UCF, a school like Louisville could grab all the skilled players and a school like NC State could grab all the linemen. How would a school, like UCF, replace 20-25 players during an offseason?

Imagine this same situation for the school like Mississippi State. Auburn, Georgia, and Alabama could raid a competing roster as the coach moves to Florida.

This could destroy a program.
(This post was last modified: 02-02-2018 04:32 PM by chess.)
02-01-2018 06:33 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Proposal to let athletes transfer instantly after a coaching change picks up steam
(02-01-2018 02:27 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-01-2018 02:08 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(02-01-2018 11:53 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The problem I see is---even if a team gets extra scholarships for lost transfers--we are talking about losing not only your coach, your staff---but also established kids with experience in the program. Its going to be very hard to avoid a massive drop off every time a coach leaves.

I'd be sympathetic to the schools and whatever risk they assume were they to actually guarantee scholarships universally. If you did, and the kid decides to take a walk, now you can attach governance that gives some stipulations, because the kid is literally walking away from a full commitment.

As is, yeah, there are some scenarios where the wait time is negated, but most of the other rules already serve the school. And, really, does doing this for the kids, now we have to think about the schools' risks again?!

Get better at recruiting, and get smarter with it, I say. And stop giving scholarships to kids who don't belong at your school. Or, stop with the doublespeak at these schools where one year they want you, and the next they don't because a coach says so...as in, vet your coaches and force them to keep the kids...and if not, simply don't hire the guy. Why is that so hard?

UUmmmm---the kid picks the school. Not the other way around. Hell, he can walk on anywhere for that matter.

To be fair, I actually suggested a fix that helps protect the schools while actually giving MORE student athletes additional options to move around. My suggestion was to let players from ANY school transfer without sitting out if they transfer to a school that LOST its coach. How does that in any way hurt the student athlete?

Gap-filling like that would make sense; it's trading spaces at its core. How one would address a school losing a coach and then five or six guys wanting out...not all of them are going to enjoy that benefit.

While I know the kids make the choice, I don't believe the sell is accurate or authentic. There are some awful practices the NCAA should be more vigilant in policing. Like, if you're recruited by Saban or Calipari, and you go to UA or UK respectively, are you told ever that you might be auditioning for your scholarship every year, regardless of your performance on the field and in the classroom? That with some programs, the interest in some kids is like a one-night-stand? That you commit, and you pour yourself into a program and classes to make sure you stay in good favor because there is nothing stopping a school from telling you to get lost; I'm sure kids today are more savvy to the scheme, but, it doesn't make it right just because the kid signs on the line.

Quite honestly, I think the Ivies, Pioneer, and D3 have it right. That it's aid and merit-based awards and not athletic scholarships...more broad, undefined, unspecific, and yet, something for someone for who they are as a student, or person, and not (just) the athlete part. It makes the transfer process a little more complicated because the award system is person-specific. Like, hey, sorry you lost your spot on the team, but doing so still keeps your spot at the school because you're upholding your end of the terms for this merit-based aid package. If you walk away from that...yeah, I'm not sympathetic.
02-02-2018 05:14 AM
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Crump1 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Proposal to let athletes transfer instantly after a coaching change picks up steam
(01-31-2018 06:30 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  G5 would lose good players to P5 but it would leave a better HS recruiting pool for them plus they could in turn raid FCS. A G5 playoff would become unavoidable.
There will never be a "G5" playoff and this proposal would have the potential to hurt or help any schools equally. You could raid the bench of a school that has better athletes on its bench than you have or you could go to peers who are not winning and swipe some contributors. It would probably even things out even more than the current situation across CFB.
02-06-2018 02:29 PM
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Post: #46
RE: Proposal to let athletes transfer instantly after a coaching change picks up steam
(02-06-2018 02:29 PM)Crump1 Wrote:  
(01-31-2018 06:30 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  G5 would lose good players to P5 but it would leave a better HS recruiting pool for them plus they could in turn raid FCS. A G5 playoff would become unavoidable.
There will never be a "G5" playoff and this proposal would have the potential to hurt or help any schools equally. You could raid the bench of a school that has better athletes on its bench than you have or you could go to peers who are not winning and swipe some contributors. It would probably even things out even more than the current situation across CFB.

I suspect that the losses of guys with stars in their eyes about transferring to P5 programs will be more than offset by the guys who come to the conclusion that being the 2nd best or 3rd best on the P5 team at their position and spending most of the game watching isn't as much fun as playing.
02-06-2018 02:55 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Proposal to let athletes transfer instantly after a coaching change picks up steam
What I find a bit unsettling is that everywhere I've seen, the discussion seems focused more on how the rule would impact fans' enjoyment of the sport. If you want to make the case that this hurts college basketball, then certainly that's fine (I disagree; I think this is a reasonable concession to allow student-athletes the same flexibility to move on as the coaches who recruited them). But "I don't like it because it hurts my team" or "I don't want to watch basketball where players can transfer like that" seems an awfully myopic and shallow argument.
02-06-2018 03:28 PM
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Post: #48
RE: Proposal to let athletes transfer instantly after a coaching change picks up steam
(02-06-2018 03:28 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  What I find a bit unsettling is that everywhere I've seen, the discussion seems focused more on how the rule would impact fans' enjoyment of the sport. If you want to make the case that this hurts college basketball, then certainly that's fine (I disagree; I think this is a reasonable concession to allow student-athletes the same flexibility to move on as the coaches who recruited them). But "I don't like it because it hurts my team" or "I don't want to watch basketball where players can transfer like that" seems an awfully myopic and shallow argument.

While I appreciate that the athletes should be as free to move as their coaches, that in itself misses the mark. The athletes should be free to move because all other "students" are free to do so. If they are to be bound to the school then grant in aids need to be replaced with contracts and they need to be employees.

All scholarships should be for 1 year and renewable. That way the kids have their freedom, the coaches can easily deal with problems, and eligibility ought to be tied to 4 years of play. The redshirt is fine if the school wishes to count that as a hardship year.

If you want a more level playing field in terms of competition this would do it.
02-06-2018 04:27 PM
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Post: #49
RE: Proposal to let athletes transfer instantly after a coaching change picks up steam
(02-06-2018 03:28 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  What I find a bit unsettling is that everywhere I've seen, the discussion seems focused more on how the rule would impact fans' enjoyment of the sport. If you want to make the case that this hurts college basketball, then certainly that's fine (I disagree; I think this is a reasonable concession to allow student-athletes the same flexibility to move on as the coaches who recruited them). But "I don't like it because it hurts my team" or "I don't want to watch basketball where players can transfer like that" seems an awfully myopic and shallow argument.

It is possible to have concerns about student-athlete exploitation AND concerns about a school I love AND concerns about the future of an already broken sport that has provided so many with opportunities.

Like so many things these days you are expected to dive in completely into one emotional end of the pool or the other. Anyone who says "whoa hold up" is a bad person, a racist, an idiot, self-serving, paranoid, or a fool. You are either with the student-athletes, or against them.

The fairest thing is to take about half of all the gazillions of dollars generated by NCAA student athletes and divide it up amongst all NCAA student athletes. Ain't nobody gonna be THAT fair though are they?

How all this affects G5 programs and schools differently than P5 IS important. Unintended consequences ARE important. How it affects scholarship limits IS important. How it affects APR IS important. None of that means student-athletes aren't important too. These things aren't mutually exclusive. You can hold these things in your head at the same time.

How can you give student-athletes more control without decreasing parity or increasing the have/have-not gap? How do you do it and prevent P5 schools from star-poaching for free G5 players that G5 schools have invested money and resources developing? How do you do it and keep wealthy schools from hiring professional scouting firms to hang around schools that may have a coaching change... like vultures.

There are lots of legitimate questions and unintended consequences to take seriously.







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02-06-2018 05:06 PM
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Post: #50
RE: Proposal to let athletes transfer instantly after a coaching change picks up steam
(02-06-2018 03:28 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  What I find a bit unsettling is that everywhere I've seen, the discussion seems focused more on how the rule would impact fans' enjoyment of the sport. If you want to make the case that this hurts college basketball, then certainly that's fine (I disagree; I think this is a reasonable concession to allow student-athletes the same flexibility to move on as the coaches who recruited them). But "I don't like it because it hurts my team" or "I don't want to watch basketball where players can transfer like that" seems an awfully myopic and shallow argument.

I certainly didn't like it when our conference freshman of the year transferred to a P5 but that's not what has taken the fun out of watching basketball for me.

The bulk of regular season games mean virtually nothing.

If you are in one of the 20ish conferences that won't be multi-bid the only impact the regular season has is your seeding the conference tournament dash for the autobid. In a few conferences you need to win just enough to not be eliminated.

Then for a number of power schools, the main thing is just get a few games over .500, maybe don't face plant your first round conference tournament game and you are in.

Oh well Team X is #1 and they are playing #17 tonight. YAWN. Nothing is at stake except seeding and there are basically no byes (the bracket expansion sort of created a bye system but you have a crap ton facing the same number of games to reach the finals and there is no home court so it really isn't that significant if you are a 2 seed or a 3 or really even being a 1 vs a 3 or 4 doesn't carry an immense advantage.

A mostly irrelevant regular season is the biggest problem NCAA hoops faces.
02-06-2018 05:21 PM
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Post: #51
RE: Proposal to let athletes transfer instantly after a coaching change picks up steam
I think players should be able to leave, and play right away at G5 schools, If they go to P5 have to sit a year.
02-07-2018 08:32 AM
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Post: #52
RE: Proposal to let athletes transfer instantly after a coaching change picks up steam
(02-07-2018 08:32 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  I think players should be able to leave, and play right away at G5 schools, If they go to P5 have to sit a year.

What about if they go to a P6.
02-07-2018 10:40 AM
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Attackcoog Online
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Post: #53
RE: Proposal to let athletes transfer instantly after a coaching change picks up steam
(02-06-2018 02:55 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-06-2018 02:29 PM)Crump1 Wrote:  
(01-31-2018 06:30 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  G5 would lose good players to P5 but it would leave a better HS recruiting pool for them plus they could in turn raid FCS. A G5 playoff would become unavoidable.
There will never be a "G5" playoff and this proposal would have the potential to hurt or help any schools equally. You could raid the bench of a school that has better athletes on its bench than you have or you could go to peers who are not winning and swipe some contributors. It would probably even things out even more than the current situation across CFB.

I suspect that the losses of guys with stars in their eyes about transferring to P5 programs will be more than offset by the guys who come to the conclusion that being the 2nd best or 3rd best on the P5 team at their position and spending most of the game watching isn't as much fun as playing.

That’s not the issue. I fully expect the numbers would likely balance. What you will see is G5 stars moving up and P5 busts moving down. The numbers will be about equal—but it represents a net talent transfer to the P5 from the G5. Frankly, other than QB—#2’s play quite a bit in college and are just one injury way from starting. So you are looking at #3’s and below from P5 depth charts looking at G5’s. Not to mention, the best of that group is likely to head to P5 schools that have a need/void at thier position.

Worse yet, I suspect proven G5 QB’s would be the most popular P5 target. Extremely didficult for any program to get anywhere when the top QB talent keeps getting stripped away.
(This post was last modified: 02-07-2018 11:26 AM by Attackcoog.)
02-07-2018 11:22 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Proposal to let athletes transfer instantly after a coaching change picks up steam
(02-07-2018 11:22 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I fully expect the numbers would likely balance.

That's very unlikely. Players are only going to move "up" if two things are true: The player is really good and he has a rock-solid starting opportunity on the new team. A star QB who is setting records at Fresno State isn't going to move to USC for just "a chance" to compete against the two or three elite QBs they already have; if he's that good then he is already a top NFL draft prospect and won't risk becoming a backup at USC. That QB is only going to consider moving if it's a situation like Oregon a few years ago, where the Ducks got caught with no good QBs on the roster and brought in Vernon Adams as a graduate transfer.

Players with that ideal "move-up" situation will be vastly outnumbered by players who are buried on the depth chart at Alabama or Ohio State, or some other program where they stack up 4-star and 5-star players, and who realize after a year or two that they will get far more playing time elsewhere.
02-07-2018 11:37 AM
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Post: #55
RE: Proposal to let athletes transfer instantly after a coaching change picks up steam
(02-07-2018 11:37 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 11:22 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I fully expect the numbers would likely balance.

That's very unlikely. Players are only going to move "up" if two things are true: The player is really good and he has a rock-solid starting opportunity on the new team. A star QB who is setting records at Fresno State isn't going to move to USC for just "a chance" to compete against the two or three elite QBs they already have; if he's that good then he is already a top NFL draft prospect and won't risk becoming a backup at USC. That QB is only going to consider moving if it's a situation like Oregon a few years ago, where the Ducks got caught with no good QBs on the roster and brought in Vernon Adams as a graduate transfer.

Players with that ideal "move-up" situation will be vastly outnumbered by players who are buried on the depth chart at Alabama or Ohio State, or some other program where they stack up 4-star and 5-star players, and who realize after a year or two that they will get far more playing time elsewhere.

Maybe. The "star" G5 QB will move if the P5 QB's at 'Bama are busts. Remember, this isnt a draft. The G5 QB is going to move to a P5 where there is void at QB--preferably a team that is just a QB away from being really good. Its basically going to resemble free agency in the pro game--except you cant use salary increases to attract or retain a prospect. I honestly think this will be really bad for G5's that lose a coach. Think about it--its basically going to affect G5's almost as badly as NCAA sanctions. Its basically like losing a coahc and a bunch of schollies.
(This post was last modified: 02-07-2018 12:18 PM by Attackcoog.)
02-07-2018 12:12 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Proposal to let athletes transfer instantly after a coaching change picks up steam
(02-07-2018 12:12 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 11:37 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 11:22 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I fully expect the numbers would likely balance.

That's very unlikely. Players are only going to move "up" if two things are true: The player is really good and he has a rock-solid starting opportunity on the new team. A star QB who is setting records at Fresno State isn't going to move to USC for just "a chance" to compete against the two or three elite QBs they already have; if he's that good then he is already a top NFL draft prospect and won't risk becoming a backup at USC. That QB is only going to consider moving if it's a situation like Oregon a few years ago, where the Ducks got caught with no good QBs on the roster and brought in Vernon Adams as a graduate transfer.

Players with that ideal "move-up" situation will be vastly outnumbered by players who are buried on the depth chart at Alabama or Ohio State, or some other program where they stack up 4-star and 5-star players, and who realize after a year or two that they will get far more playing time elsewhere.

Maybe. The "star" G5 QB will move if the P5 QB's at 'Bama are busts. Remember, this isnt a draft. The G5 QB is going to move to a P5 where there is void at QB--preferably a team that is just a QB away from being really good. Its basically going to resemble free agency in the pro game--except you cant use salary increases to attract or retain a prospect. I honestly think this will be really bad for G5's that lose a coach. Think about it--its basically going to affect G5's almost as badly as NCAA sanctions. Its basically like losing a coahc and a bunch of schollies.

There are not that many situations like that. A player who has proven himself elite is not going to move unless there is both a void and the "new" team is good enough to be attractive to him. There are not that many voids at top programs because they recruit 2 or 3 or 4 deep at every position. As we can see from this year's title game, Bama already had more than one QB capable of winning games.

The number of guys not getting enough playing time at top programs is much greater than the number of "breakout stars" on G5 teams, and as I mentioned in my last comment, many of those stars are going to stay where they are because they are already NFL prospects and their real goal is playing in the NFL, not playing at Texas or USC.

The kind of players who might move "up" more often are good players, not good enough to be NFL material, who are on bad teams and would rather be part of a really good team than start on a really bad team. But that's not limited to G5 teams, obviously; a player like that at Kansas is just as likely to leave as a similar player at UTEP.
02-07-2018 12:53 PM
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Attackcoog Online
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Post: #57
RE: Proposal to let athletes transfer instantly after a coaching change picks up steam
(02-07-2018 12:53 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 12:12 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 11:37 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 11:22 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I fully expect the numbers would likely balance.

That's very unlikely. Players are only going to move "up" if two things are true: The player is really good and he has a rock-solid starting opportunity on the new team. A star QB who is setting records at Fresno State isn't going to move to USC for just "a chance" to compete against the two or three elite QBs they already have; if he's that good then he is already a top NFL draft prospect and won't risk becoming a backup at USC. That QB is only going to consider moving if it's a situation like Oregon a few years ago, where the Ducks got caught with no good QBs on the roster and brought in Vernon Adams as a graduate transfer.

Players with that ideal "move-up" situation will be vastly outnumbered by players who are buried on the depth chart at Alabama or Ohio State, or some other program where they stack up 4-star and 5-star players, and who realize after a year or two that they will get far more playing time elsewhere.

Maybe. The "star" G5 QB will move if the P5 QB's at 'Bama are busts. Remember, this isnt a draft. The G5 QB is going to move to a P5 where there is void at QB--preferably a team that is just a QB away from being really good. Its basically going to resemble free agency in the pro game--except you cant use salary increases to attract or retain a prospect. I honestly think this will be really bad for G5's that lose a coach. Think about it--its basically going to affect G5's almost as badly as NCAA sanctions. Its basically like losing a coahc and a bunch of schollies.

There are not that many situations like that. A player who has proven himself elite is not going to move unless there is both a void and the "new" team is good enough to be attractive to him. There are not that many voids at top programs because they recruit 2 or 3 or 4 deep at every position. As we can see from this year's title game, Bama already had more than one QB capable of winning games.

The number of guys not getting enough playing time at top programs is much greater than the number of "breakout stars" on G5 teams, and as I mentioned in my last comment, many of those stars are going to stay where they are because they are already NFL prospects and their real goal is playing in the NFL, not playing at Texas or USC.

The kind of players who might move "up" more often are good players, not good enough to be NFL material, who are on bad teams and would rather be part of a really good team than start on a really bad team. But that's not limited to G5 teams, obviously; a player like that at Kansas is just as likely to leave as a similar player at UTEP.

Let me distill it down to my basic line of thought---the P5 wins most every HS recruiting battle they fight against the G5. The idea that this recruiting success would flip completely on its head if free transfer was allowed seems fairly unlikely to me. We will just have to agree to disagree on this one. 04-cheers
(This post was last modified: 02-07-2018 01:30 PM by Attackcoog.)
02-07-2018 01:30 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Proposal to let athletes transfer instantly after a coaching change picks up steam
(02-07-2018 01:30 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 12:53 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 12:12 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 11:37 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 11:22 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I fully expect the numbers would likely balance.

That's very unlikely. Players are only going to move "up" if two things are true: The player is really good and he has a rock-solid starting opportunity on the new team. A star QB who is setting records at Fresno State isn't going to move to USC for just "a chance" to compete against the two or three elite QBs they already have; if he's that good then he is already a top NFL draft prospect and won't risk becoming a backup at USC. That QB is only going to consider moving if it's a situation like Oregon a few years ago, where the Ducks got caught with no good QBs on the roster and brought in Vernon Adams as a graduate transfer.

Players with that ideal "move-up" situation will be vastly outnumbered by players who are buried on the depth chart at Alabama or Ohio State, or some other program where they stack up 4-star and 5-star players, and who realize after a year or two that they will get far more playing time elsewhere.

Maybe. The "star" G5 QB will move if the P5 QB's at 'Bama are busts. Remember, this isnt a draft. The G5 QB is going to move to a P5 where there is void at QB--preferably a team that is just a QB away from being really good. Its basically going to resemble free agency in the pro game--except you cant use salary increases to attract or retain a prospect. I honestly think this will be really bad for G5's that lose a coach. Think about it--its basically going to affect G5's almost as badly as NCAA sanctions. Its basically like losing a coahc and a bunch of schollies.

There are not that many situations like that. A player who has proven himself elite is not going to move unless there is both a void and the "new" team is good enough to be attractive to him. There are not that many voids at top programs because they recruit 2 or 3 or 4 deep at every position. As we can see from this year's title game, Bama already had more than one QB capable of winning games.

The number of guys not getting enough playing time at top programs is much greater than the number of "breakout stars" on G5 teams, and as I mentioned in my last comment, many of those stars are going to stay where they are because they are already NFL prospects and their real goal is playing in the NFL, not playing at Texas or USC.

The kind of players who might move "up" more often are good players, not good enough to be NFL material, who are on bad teams and would rather be part of a really good team than start on a really bad team. But that's not limited to G5 teams, obviously; a player like that at Kansas is just as likely to leave as a similar player at UTEP.

Let me distill it down to my basic line of thought---the P5 wins most every HS recruiting battle they fight against the G5. The idea that this recruiting success would flip completely on its head if free transfer was allowed seems fairly unlikely to me. We will just have to agree to disagree on this one. 04-cheers

It's true that if an elite player at a G5 program moves, he is likely to move "up" or not move at all -- what I'm saying is that the number of players at top programs who would move out in search of more playing time is a larger number.
02-07-2018 01:47 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Proposal to let athletes transfer instantly after a coaching change picks up steam
(02-07-2018 01:47 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 01:30 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 12:53 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 12:12 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 11:37 AM)Wedge Wrote:  That's very unlikely. Players are only going to move "up" if two things are true: The player is really good and he has a rock-solid starting opportunity on the new team. A star QB who is setting records at Fresno State isn't going to move to USC for just "a chance" to compete against the two or three elite QBs they already have; if he's that good then he is already a top NFL draft prospect and won't risk becoming a backup at USC. That QB is only going to consider moving if it's a situation like Oregon a few years ago, where the Ducks got caught with no good QBs on the roster and brought in Vernon Adams as a graduate transfer.

Players with that ideal "move-up" situation will be vastly outnumbered by players who are buried on the depth chart at Alabama or Ohio State, or some other program where they stack up 4-star and 5-star players, and who realize after a year or two that they will get far more playing time elsewhere.

Maybe. The "star" G5 QB will move if the P5 QB's at 'Bama are busts. Remember, this isnt a draft. The G5 QB is going to move to a P5 where there is void at QB--preferably a team that is just a QB away from being really good. Its basically going to resemble free agency in the pro game--except you cant use salary increases to attract or retain a prospect. I honestly think this will be really bad for G5's that lose a coach. Think about it--its basically going to affect G5's almost as badly as NCAA sanctions. Its basically like losing a coahc and a bunch of schollies.

There are not that many situations like that. A player who has proven himself elite is not going to move unless there is both a void and the "new" team is good enough to be attractive to him. There are not that many voids at top programs because they recruit 2 or 3 or 4 deep at every position. As we can see from this year's title game, Bama already had more than one QB capable of winning games.

The number of guys not getting enough playing time at top programs is much greater than the number of "breakout stars" on G5 teams, and as I mentioned in my last comment, many of those stars are going to stay where they are because they are already NFL prospects and their real goal is playing in the NFL, not playing at Texas or USC.

The kind of players who might move "up" more often are good players, not good enough to be NFL material, who are on bad teams and would rather be part of a really good team than start on a really bad team. But that's not limited to G5 teams, obviously; a player like that at Kansas is just as likely to leave as a similar player at UTEP.

Let me distill it down to my basic line of thought---the P5 wins most every HS recruiting battle they fight against the G5. The idea that this recruiting success would flip completely on its head if free transfer was allowed seems fairly unlikely to me. We will just have to agree to disagree on this one. 04-cheers

It's true that if an elite player at a G5 program moves, he is likely to move "up" or not move at all -- what I'm saying is that the number of players at top programs who would move out in search of more playing time is a larger number.

That seems very unlikely to me. They knew when they went to college that they'd more likely get playing time at a G5 school than P5, and yet they still went to the P5 school.
02-07-2018 01:51 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Proposal to let athletes transfer instantly after a coaching change picks up steam
(02-07-2018 01:51 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 01:47 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 01:30 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 12:53 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-07-2018 12:12 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Maybe. The "star" G5 QB will move if the P5 QB's at 'Bama are busts. Remember, this isnt a draft. The G5 QB is going to move to a P5 where there is void at QB--preferably a team that is just a QB away from being really good. Its basically going to resemble free agency in the pro game--except you cant use salary increases to attract or retain a prospect. I honestly think this will be really bad for G5's that lose a coach. Think about it--its basically going to affect G5's almost as badly as NCAA sanctions. Its basically like losing a coahc and a bunch of schollies.

There are not that many situations like that. A player who has proven himself elite is not going to move unless there is both a void and the "new" team is good enough to be attractive to him. There are not that many voids at top programs because they recruit 2 or 3 or 4 deep at every position. As we can see from this year's title game, Bama already had more than one QB capable of winning games.

The number of guys not getting enough playing time at top programs is much greater than the number of "breakout stars" on G5 teams, and as I mentioned in my last comment, many of those stars are going to stay where they are because they are already NFL prospects and their real goal is playing in the NFL, not playing at Texas or USC.

The kind of players who might move "up" more often are good players, not good enough to be NFL material, who are on bad teams and would rather be part of a really good team than start on a really bad team. But that's not limited to G5 teams, obviously; a player like that at Kansas is just as likely to leave as a similar player at UTEP.

Let me distill it down to my basic line of thought---the P5 wins most every HS recruiting battle they fight against the G5. The idea that this recruiting success would flip completely on its head if free transfer was allowed seems fairly unlikely to me. We will just have to agree to disagree on this one. 04-cheers

It's true that if an elite player at a G5 program moves, he is likely to move "up" or not move at all -- what I'm saying is that the number of players at top programs who would move out in search of more playing time is a larger number.

That seems very unlikely to me. They knew when they went to college that they'd more likely get playing time at a G5 school than P5, and yet they still went to the P5 school.

You and I know that as adults, sure, but a lot of 18 year old kids who have always had their ego inflated by coaches and hangers-on have no doubt they'll start at a top-25 program. But after a year or two reality sets in, the kid realizes that it's less fun to be a backup RB at USC or Alabama who is just "insurance" sitting on the bench behind a future NFL star, and it might be more fun to be a starter elsewhere, especially if he doesn't have to sit out a year before playing again.

You won't get every one of those players; a few will decide that just standing on the sideline wearing the uniform of a king program is better than starting anywhere else. But a lot of them will move if they can play right away for a new team.
02-07-2018 02:01 PM
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