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If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #21
RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
(02-02-2018 02:25 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(02-02-2018 10:57 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(02-02-2018 10:42 AM)ken d Wrote:  Wouldn't it be simpler for the AAC to just add Kansas State, Iowa State, Baylor and one other school and remain the strongest G5 conference? Or, the ACC could stay at 14, leaving Cincy as the AAC's 16th team and ND as an Independent.

The premise of the thread is that the P5 conferences go to 16. Also, unless the Big 12 completely dissolves, the movement of schools will be from G5 to Big 12 and not the other way around.

Except that in your example you count a 3 team Big 12, supplemented by G5 adds, as a 16 team P5. I don't see it that way.

That's the most realistic way I could see the existing P5 conferences reaching 16 teams. And I wouldn't consider the Big 12/16 a power conference at that point either, just a tweener/tag-along conference the P4 can beat up on.
(This post was last modified: 02-02-2018 05:24 PM by Nerdlinger.)
02-02-2018 05:23 PM
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msm96wolf Offline
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Post: #22
RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
Nothing against Cinci, but they will not get the 16th slot. Odds are ND will want to bring Navy if it is a G5 team. Otherwise, I could see Baylor or TCU fitting into the ACC football culture from the BIG 12. I doubt this will ever happen, but Swofford will try his utmost to bring in Texas with ND since that is his Holy Grail.
02-02-2018 06:29 PM
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ken d Online
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Post: #23
RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
(02-02-2018 06:29 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Nothing against Cinci, but they will not get the 16th slot. Odds are ND will want to bring Navy if it is a G5 team. Otherwise, I could see Baylor or TCU fitting into the ACC football culture from the BIG 12. I doubt this will ever happen, but Swofford will try his utmost to bring in Texas with ND since that is his Holy Grail.

I agree. And, I seriously doubt the ACC is going to land big fish ND and Texas, either. I could see adding the Florida twins before any of the other AAC teams. There's something to be said for having 5 of the 7 top teams in the talent rich states of Florida and Georgia.
02-02-2018 09:01 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #24
RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
I know that this is an "if" thread so it is nonsensical to post with "P5 will never all go to 16 teams", so my apologies to the OP, but ...

That's how I feel: If all the Power conferences ever have 16 schools, it will be because they consolidated to a P4.

That's because if the P5 did it, the current schools would, in effect, be cutting their own pay by 20%, because they would have expanded the number of power teams by roughly 25%.

And that ain't happening. 07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 02-02-2018 10:39 PM by quo vadis.)
02-02-2018 10:39 PM
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chargeradio Online
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Post: #25
RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
(02-02-2018 10:39 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I know that this is an "if" thread so it is nonsensical to post with "P5 will never all go to 16 teams", so my apologies to the OP, but ...

That's how I feel: If all the Power conferences ever have 16 schools, it will be because they consolidated to a P4.

That's because if the P5 did it, the current schools would, in effect, be cutting their own pay by 20%, because they would have expanded the number of power teams by roughly 25%.

And that ain't happening. 07-coffee3
I agree. But just for fun:

PAC 12 adds UNLV, Colorado State, New Mexico, Boise State
B1G adds Virginia, North Carolina
SEC adds NC State, Virginia Tech
ACC adds Oklahoma, Texas, TCU, Houston, UConn, Notre Dame as a full member
Big 12 adds Tulsa, SMU, Memphis, USF, UCF, East Carolina, Cincinnati, Tulane

Wichita State joins the Atlantic 10 and Navy reverts to Independence.

MWC adds Idaho and New Mexico State.
02-03-2018 01:45 AM
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Post: #26
RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
If the proposal is for each P5 conference to add ONLY G5 schools (not Notre Dame), then for the Big Ten I'd add either UCF and USF or Colorado State and one of UConn, Cincinnati, or Buffalo.

UCF and USF give the conference arguably the best pair of G5 schools. Everyone recruits Florida but having these two opens it up further for the conference. They have a huge collection of alumni which pay off more in the future as they donate more and more money back to the school. The Big Ten has a lot of retirees down in Florida to help enhance the attendance of UCF and USF. Lastly, the ACC and SEC would likely pass on these two so the conference would only have to fight off the Big 12 for them. The only problem is their distance from the conference but they make a great travel pair so that helps alleviate it.

My philosophy for Big Ten expansion is that they have to help out Nebraska to make them feel more like a Big Ten school. Grabbing Colorado State gets them games back in the state of Colorado that they miss from their old rival Colorado. I think it would be too far a stretch to add Houston and SMU so that's why I went with CSU. As for their partner, it is hard for me to narrow it down. UConn has the basketball pedigree and a strong fan following but doesn't provide anything in football or in a recruiting territory. Cincinnati would be a defensive move to keep other conferences from grabbing arguably the top all-around G5 school out there but they really don't add much as they have the misfortune of sharing a state with Ohio State. Buffalo would be a long-term play that would hopefully pull in the whole state of New York and is AAU.
02-03-2018 10:13 AM
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chargeradio Online
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Post: #27
RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
(02-03-2018 10:13 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  If the proposal is for each P5 conference to add ONLY G5 schools (not Notre Dame), then for the Big Ten I'd add either UCF and USF or Colorado State and one of UConn, Cincinnati, or Buffalo.

UCF and USF give the conference arguably the best pair of G5 schools. Everyone recruits Florida but having these two opens it up further for the conference. They have a huge collection of alumni which pay off more in the future as they donate more and more money back to the school. The Big Ten has a lot of retirees down in Florida to help enhance the attendance of UCF and USF. Lastly, the ACC and SEC would likely pass on these two so the conference would only have to fight off the Big 12 for them. The only problem is their distance from the conference but they make a great travel pair so that helps alleviate it.

My philosophy for Big Ten expansion is that they have to help out Nebraska to make them feel more like a Big Ten school. Grabbing Colorado State gets them games back in the state of Colorado that they miss from their old rival Colorado. I think it would be too far a stretch to add Houston and SMU so that's why I went with CSU. As for their partner, it is hard for me to narrow it down. UConn has the basketball pedigree and a strong fan following but doesn't provide anything in football or in a recruiting territory. Cincinnati would be a defensive move to keep other conferences from grabbing arguably the top all-around G5 school out there but they really don't add much as they have the misfortune of sharing a state with Ohio State. Buffalo would be a long-term play that would hopefully pull in the whole state of New York and is AAU.
If the B1G were taking G5 schools in Texas, I’d think they would be more inclined to take Rice and SMU to appease the academic interests in the conference. It still gets them in DFW and Houston, and makes BTN easier to implement with cable operators in the state. This not only helps Nebraska but the entire conference. Northwestern gets another private school, everyone gets Texas recruiting, and Big Ten baseball teams can play conference games at Rice and SMU early in the season.

If the B1G went to pods with those schools:

West - SMU, Rice, Nebraska, Iowa
Central - Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern
North - Indiana, Purdue, Ohio State, Michigan
East - Michigan State, Penn State, Rutgers, Maryland

Protected football crossovers: Iowa-Minnesota, Michigan-Michigan State, Ohio State-Penn State
02-03-2018 11:21 AM
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Post: #28
RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
(02-03-2018 11:21 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  
(02-03-2018 10:13 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  If the proposal is for each P5 conference to add ONLY G5 schools (not Notre Dame), then for the Big Ten I'd add either UCF and USF or Colorado State and one of UConn, Cincinnati, or Buffalo.

UCF and USF give the conference arguably the best pair of G5 schools. Everyone recruits Florida but having these two opens it up further for the conference. They have a huge collection of alumni which pay off more in the future as they donate more and more money back to the school. The Big Ten has a lot of retirees down in Florida to help enhance the attendance of UCF and USF. Lastly, the ACC and SEC would likely pass on these two so the conference would only have to fight off the Big 12 for them. The only problem is their distance from the conference but they make a great travel pair so that helps alleviate it.

My philosophy for Big Ten expansion is that they have to help out Nebraska to make them feel more like a Big Ten school. Grabbing Colorado State gets them games back in the state of Colorado that they miss from their old rival Colorado. I think it would be too far a stretch to add Houston and SMU so that's why I went with CSU. As for their partner, it is hard for me to narrow it down. UConn has the basketball pedigree and a strong fan following but doesn't provide anything in football or in a recruiting territory. Cincinnati would be a defensive move to keep other conferences from grabbing arguably the top all-around G5 school out there but they really don't add much as they have the misfortune of sharing a state with Ohio State. Buffalo would be a long-term play that would hopefully pull in the whole state of New York and is AAU.
If the B1G were taking G5 schools in Texas, I’d think they would be more inclined to take Rice and SMU to appease the academic interests in the conference. It still gets them in DFW and Houston, and makes BTN easier to implement with cable operators in the state. This not only helps Nebraska but the entire conference. Northwestern gets another private school, everyone gets Texas recruiting, and Big Ten baseball teams can play conference games at Rice and SMU early in the season.

If the B1G went to pods with those schools:

West - SMU, Rice, Nebraska, Iowa
Central - Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern
North - Indiana, Purdue, Ohio State, Michigan
East - Michigan State, Penn State, Rutgers, Maryland

Protected football crossovers: Iowa-Minnesota, Michigan-Michigan State, Ohio State-Penn State

Under the circumstances, I'd be okay with that. Rice just doesn't care about athletics and has such a small alumni base though. I'd be okay if they were the fourth school in a Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas addition but would they really make a dent in the state of Texas if they joined any conference without a Texas presence?
02-03-2018 11:37 AM
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ken d Online
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Post: #29
RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
I could envision a real possibility of two conferences moving to 16, but not all, and not the ones most people would think. I could see the SEC and B1G standing pat. They clearly don't need to do anything - they are in the catbird seat already.

I could see the following happening as the PAC and B12 GoRs are near their end:

I believe the B12 would cede West Virginia in a heartbeat, and without penalty, to the ACC if they would take them. The ACC could then shoot for Navy as a football only add, bringing them to 16 for all sports. They largely divide into Old Big East and Old ACC divisions.

Left with 9 members, the B12 is then free to add the 4 Cali schools, the 2 Arizona schools and Colorado, bringing them to 16. Texas Tech joins the new adds in a western division.

The badly depleted PAC then adds Boise State, BYU, Nevada and San Diego State to get back to 9 for football, and then adds Gonzaga for all other sports. That gives them a geographically logical conference, with P5 strength in football and excellent basketball. They would have a balanced 4/4 football schedule and an 18 game double round robin in hoops.

The new PAC is strong enough to continue to warrant a guaranteed berth in the NY6, and with the best western schools now out of the G5 picture, the AAC is almost assured of the guaranteed G5 slot in the NY6 in most years.
(This post was last modified: 02-03-2018 02:10 PM by ken d.)
02-03-2018 12:54 PM
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Post: #30
RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
(02-03-2018 01:45 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  
(02-02-2018 10:39 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I know that this is an "if" thread so it is nonsensical to post with "P5 will never all go to 16 teams", so my apologies to the OP, but ...

That's how I feel: If all the Power conferences ever have 16 schools, it will be because they consolidated to a P4.

That's because if the P5 did it, the current schools would, in effect, be cutting their own pay by 20%, because they would have expanded the number of power teams by roughly 25%.

And that ain't happening. 07-coffee3
I agree. But just for fun:

PAC 12 adds UNLV, Colorado State, New Mexico, Boise State
B1G adds Virginia, North Carolina
SEC adds NC State, Virginia Tech
ACC adds Oklahoma, Texas, TCU, Houston, UConn, Notre Dame as a full member
Big 12 adds Tulsa, SMU, Memphis, USF, UCF, East Carolina, Cincinnati, Tulane

Wichita State joins the Atlantic 10 and Navy reverts to Independence.

MWC adds Idaho and New Mexico State.

If the Big 12 loses three to fall to seven, adding eight only gets them to 15, so you'd need another school. Air Force football would be the most obvious choice, though maybe they add a fourth southeast school to form a pod with USF/UCF/ECU, unless you count Cincinnati or West Virginia with those schools.

Wait! BYU! They'd almost certainly get the first call in this scenario. I'd bump Tulsa, SMU or Tulane to include them and Air Force.

Southwest: Texas Tech/Baylor/Kansas/Oklahoma State
Northwest: BYU/Air Force/Kansas State/Iowa State
East Coast: West Virginia/USF/UCF/ECU
Mid-South: Cincinnati/Memphis/Tulane/SMU

Obviously Kansas-KState is a protected rivalry. I'd think Tulsa is the odd AAC program out because of size, relative lack of athletic success and that Okie State would do what it could to keep them out. Air Force is probably the only MWC school they'd consider (maaaaaybe Wyoming or Nevada but both have issues). I'm sure the CUSA/MAC/Sun Belt schools would be dry-cleaning their go-to-church clothes but none of them are obvious adds at this point.

Navy would also be an obvious add but who do you bump for them? They like playing Tulane/SMU/Tulsa, which is why they're in the AAC's western division. Maybe ECU?

Or you could get really wacky and give Navy, AF and Army their own pod. Not sure how a three-team pod works in a 16-team conference, but if they think it's worth it, then they'll find a way.
02-03-2018 01:40 PM
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Post: #31
RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
(02-02-2018 09:48 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  And the ACC has the most viewers in its footprint. The ACC is stable. 07-coffee3

The ACC may have the most people. They don't have the most viewers. That's ridiculous. The AAC has a ton of people in its footprint too and you'd never say that means anything for the AAC.
02-03-2018 07:22 PM
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Post: #32
RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
(02-03-2018 01:40 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(02-03-2018 01:45 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  
(02-02-2018 10:39 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I know that this is an "if" thread so it is nonsensical to post with "P5 will never all go to 16 teams", so my apologies to the OP, but ...

That's how I feel: If all the Power conferences ever have 16 schools, it will be because they consolidated to a P4.

That's because if the P5 did it, the current schools would, in effect, be cutting their own pay by 20%, because they would have expanded the number of power teams by roughly 25%.

And that ain't happening. 07-coffee3
I agree. But just for fun:

PAC 12 adds UNLV, Colorado State, New Mexico, Boise State
B1G adds Virginia, North Carolina
SEC adds NC State, Virginia Tech
ACC adds Oklahoma, Texas, TCU, Houston, UConn, Notre Dame as a full member
Big 12 adds Tulsa, SMU, Memphis, USF, UCF, East Carolina, Cincinnati, Tulane

Wichita State joins the Atlantic 10 and Navy reverts to Independence.

MWC adds Idaho and New Mexico State.

If the Big 12 loses three to fall to seven, adding eight only gets them to 15, so you'd need another school. Air Force football would be the most obvious choice, though maybe they add a fourth southeast school to form a pod with USF/UCF/ECU, unless you count Cincinnati or West Virginia with those schools.

Wait! BYU! They'd almost certainly get the first call in this scenario. I'd bump Tulsa, SMU or Tulane to include them and Air Force.

Southwest: Texas Tech/Baylor/Kansas/Oklahoma State
Northwest: BYU/Air Force/Kansas State/Iowa State
East Coast: West Virginia/USF/UCF/ECU
Mid-South: Cincinnati/Memphis/Tulane/SMU


Obviously Kansas-KState is a protected rivalry. I'd think Tulsa is the odd AAC program out because of size, relative lack of athletic success and that Okie State would do what it could to keep them out. Air Force is probably the only MWC school they'd consider (maaaaaybe Wyoming or Nevada but both have issues). I'm sure the CUSA/MAC/Sun Belt schools would be dry-cleaning their go-to-church clothes but none of them are obvious adds at this point.

Navy would also be an obvious add but who do you bump for them? They like playing Tulane/SMU/Tulsa, which is why they're in the AAC's western division. Maybe ECU?

Or you could get really wacky and give Navy, AF and Army their own pod. Not sure how a three-team pod works in a 16-team conference, but if they think it's worth it, then they'll find a way.

If you're going with those 16, here's a better alignment:

East: Cincinnati, ECU, Iowa State, WVU
South: Memphis, Tulane, UCF, USF
North: Air Force, BYU, Kansas, Kansas State
West: Baylor, Oklahoma State, SMU, Texas Tech

Or maybe go with your East pod and put Cincy and ISU with Memphis and Tulane.
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2018 02:23 PM by Nerdlinger.)
02-03-2018 07:46 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #33
RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
(02-02-2018 09:48 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  And the ACC has the most viewers in its footprint. The ACC is stable. 07-coffee3

IMO, the ACC is very stable, but because of the GOR, the buyout, and because the SEC and B1G don't want any of their schools and are unlikely to in the foreseeable future.

Viewership-wise, I think there's only real loyalty to the ACC in the NC - VA core. The deep southern schools, particularly Miami and FSU, don't identify with the ACC at all except as a paycheck, and it's pretty much the same among the northern schools.

The ACC is a good working arrangement, and it has never been more successful on the court and on the gridiron at the same time as it is now. But it is a 3-component hybrid anyway. It lacks and likely always will lack the cultural cohesion of the SEC, B1G, and PAC.

If we think about "Big 10 country", it's basically the entire mid-west. The SEC? The entire southeast save for North Carolina. The PAC? The whole west coast.

The ACC? Basically North Carolina and Virginia. A much smaller core footprint.
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2018 12:16 AM by quo vadis.)
02-04-2018 12:13 AM
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Post: #34
RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
(02-04-2018 12:13 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-02-2018 09:48 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  And the ACC has the most viewers in its footprint. The ACC is stable. 07-coffee3

IMO, the ACC is very stable, but because of the GOR, the buyout, and because the SEC and B1G don't want any of their schools and are unlikely to in the foreseeable future.

Viewership-wise, I think there's only real loyalty to the ACC in the NC - VA core. The deep southern schools, particularly Miami and FSU, don't identify with the ACC at all except as a paycheck, and it's pretty much the same among the northern schools.

The ACC is a good working arrangement, and it has never been more successful on the court and on the gridiron at the same time as it is now. But it is a 3-component hybrid anyway. It lacks and likely always will lack the cultural cohesion of the SEC, B1G, and PAC.

If we think about "Big 10 country", it's basically the entire mid-west. The SEC? The entire southeast save for North Carolina. The PAC? The whole west coast.

The ACC? Basically North Carolina and Virginia. A much smaller core footprint.

Quo the Big 10 and the SEC would love a presence in Virginia and North Carolina.

When you said they were stable because of the GOR you said enough. Also as we move ever closer to a content driven pay model then Clemson and Florida State along with Miami and Virginia Tech will all increase in value.

What might be said that is true, is that if either the SEC or Big 10 lands either of Texas and Oklahoma that their conference might find itself in a position where no school from the ACC can increase the value of their conference.

To put it into perspective Oklahoma and Texas both deliver an economic impact of over 1 billion dollars from a brand perspective. Nobody in the ACC outside of N.D. can do that. In fact none of them have an impact that exceeds 400 million other than N.D.. If the SEC and Big 10 split those schools we would both essentially be set since the only three schools that could add value after those two are taken would be Ohio State, Alabama, and Notre Dame in that order. So if the Big 10 wanted to expand again they would have to land Alabama and Notre Dame if they were going to make money. And the SEC would have to add Ohio State and Notre Dame if they were going to make money.

So the whole realignment game comes down to Texas and Oklahoma. If the Big 12 survives and they become unobtainable then the GOR is the only thing protecting the ACC. Should the ACCN not help them to close their economic gap and should content continue to drive the pay model while the market model gradually goes away, then both the Big 10 and SEC would only be able to find targets of value in the ACC. (I'm assuming here that the PAC will always stay together because of the cost of minor sports travel).

North Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Clemson, Florida State, and to a lesser extent N.C. State, and Miami would all hold more value than any of the Big 10's last four additions other than Penn State, and more value than any of the SEC's last four additions other than Texas A&M.

But an SEC with OU and a Big 10 with UT would probably be the one event that truly made the ACC safe.
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2018 01:05 AM by JRsec.)
02-04-2018 01:01 AM
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Post: #35
RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
(02-03-2018 07:46 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(02-03-2018 01:40 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(02-03-2018 01:45 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  
(02-02-2018 10:39 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I know that this is an "if" thread so it is nonsensical to post with "P5 will never all go to 16 teams", so my apologies to the OP, but ...

That's how I feel: If all the Power conferences ever have 16 schools, it will be because they consolidated to a P4.

That's because if the P5 did it, the current schools would, in effect, be cutting their own pay by 20%, because they would have expanded the number of power teams by roughly 25%.

And that ain't happening. 07-coffee3
I agree. But just for fun:

PAC 12 adds UNLV, Colorado State, New Mexico, Boise State
B1G adds Virginia, North Carolina
SEC adds NC State, Virginia Tech
ACC adds Oklahoma, Texas, TCU, Houston, UConn, Notre Dame as a full member
Big 12 adds Tulsa, SMU, Memphis, USF, UCF, East Carolina, Cincinnati, Tulane

Wichita State joins the Atlantic 10 and Navy reverts to Independence.

MWC adds Idaho and New Mexico State.

If the Big 12 loses three to fall to seven, adding eight only gets them to 15, so you'd need another school. Air Force football would be the most obvious choice, though maybe they add a fourth southeast school to form a pod with USF/UCF/ECU, unless you count Cincinnati or West Virginia with those schools.

Wait! BYU! They'd almost certainly get the first call in this scenario. I'd bump Tulsa, SMU or Tulane to include them and Air Force.

Southwest: Texas Tech/Baylor/Kansas/Oklahoma State
Northwest: BYU/Air Force/Kansas State/Iowa State
East Coast: West Virginia/USF/UCF/ECU
Mid-South: Cincinnati/Memphis/Tulane/SMU


Obviously Kansas-KState is a protected rivalry. I'd think Tulsa is the odd AAC program out because of size, relative lack of athletic success and that Okie State would do what it could to keep them out. Air Force is probably the only MWC school they'd consider (maaaaaybe Wyoming or Nevada but both have issues). I'm sure the CUSA/MAC/Sun Belt schools would be dry-cleaning their go-to-church clothes but none of them are obvious adds at this point.

Navy would also be an obvious add but who do you bump for them? They like playing Tulane/SMU/Tulsa, which is why they're in the AAC's western division. Maybe ECU?

Or you could get really wacky and give Navy, AF and Army their own pod. Not sure how a three-team pod works in a 16-team conference, but if they think it's worth it, then they'll find a way.

If you're going with those 16, here's a better alignment:

East: Cincinnati, ECU, Iowa State, WVU
South: Memphis, Tulane, UCF, USF
North: Air Force, BYU, Kansas, Kansas State
West: Baylor, SMU, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

Or maybe go with your East pod and put Cincy and ISU with Memphis and Tulane.

I wanted to keep the Big 12 teams together as much as possible. In reality a 16-team Big 12 would be divided into two eight-team divisions, with most of the Big 12 holdovers in the West and West Virginia in the East (then pods for basketball). But if they Big 12 had to go to 16, then they might as well go to 18 with two nine-team divisions that don't interact until the postseason.

West: Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, BYU, Air Force, Oklahoma State, Kansas State, Kansas, Iowa State
East: West Virginia, Cincinnati, Memphis, SMU, Tulane, Navy, ECU, USF, UCF

Navy-Air Force would remain an OOC game
02-04-2018 12:30 PM
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Post: #36
RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
(02-03-2018 07:46 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(02-03-2018 01:40 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(02-03-2018 01:45 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  
(02-02-2018 10:39 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I know that this is an "if" thread so it is nonsensical to post with "P5 will never all go to 16 teams", so my apologies to the OP, but ...

That's how I feel: If all the Power conferences ever have 16 schools, it will be because they consolidated to a P4.

That's because if the P5 did it, the current schools would, in effect, be cutting their own pay by 20%, because they would have expanded the number of power teams by roughly 25%.

And that ain't happening. 07-coffee3
I agree. But just for fun:

PAC 12 adds UNLV, Colorado State, New Mexico, Boise State
B1G adds Virginia, North Carolina
SEC adds NC State, Virginia Tech
ACC adds Oklahoma, Texas, TCU, Houston, UConn, Notre Dame as a full member
Big 12 adds Tulsa, SMU, Memphis, USF, UCF, East Carolina, Cincinnati, Tulane

Wichita State joins the Atlantic 10 and Navy reverts to Independence.

MWC adds Idaho and New Mexico State.

If the Big 12 loses three to fall to seven, adding eight only gets them to 15, so you'd need another school. Air Force football would be the most obvious choice, though maybe they add a fourth southeast school to form a pod with USF/UCF/ECU, unless you count Cincinnati or West Virginia with those schools.

Wait! BYU! They'd almost certainly get the first call in this scenario. I'd bump Tulsa, SMU or Tulane to include them and Air Force.

Southwest: Texas Tech/Baylor/Kansas/Oklahoma State
Northwest: BYU/Air Force/Kansas State/Iowa State
East Coast: West Virginia/USF/UCF/ECU
Mid-South: Cincinnati/Memphis/Tulane/SMU


Obviously Kansas-KState is a protected rivalry. I'd think Tulsa is the odd AAC program out because of size, relative lack of athletic success and that Okie State would do what it could to keep them out. Air Force is probably the only MWC school they'd consider (maaaaaybe Wyoming or Nevada but both have issues). I'm sure the CUSA/MAC/Sun Belt schools would be dry-cleaning their go-to-church clothes but none of them are obvious adds at this point.

Navy would also be an obvious add but who do you bump for them? They like playing Tulane/SMU/Tulsa, which is why they're in the AAC's western division. Maybe ECU?

Or you could get really wacky and give Navy, AF and Army their own pod. Not sure how a three-team pod works in a 16-team conference, but if they think it's worth it, then they'll find a way.

If you're going with those 16, here's a better alignment:

East: Cincinnati, ECU, Iowa State, WVU
South: Memphis, Tulane, UCF, USF
North: Air Force, BYU, Kansas, Kansas State
West: Baylor, SMU, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

Or maybe go with your East pod and put Cincy and ISU with Memphis and Tulane.

That makes a pretty good G5 conference. Who is the survivor conferene here - the Big 12 or the AAC?
02-04-2018 12:56 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #37
RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
(02-04-2018 12:56 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(02-03-2018 07:46 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(02-03-2018 01:40 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(02-03-2018 01:45 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  
(02-02-2018 10:39 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I know that this is an "if" thread so it is nonsensical to post with "P5 will never all go to 16 teams", so my apologies to the OP, but ...

That's how I feel: If all the Power conferences ever have 16 schools, it will be because they consolidated to a P4.

That's because if the P5 did it, the current schools would, in effect, be cutting their own pay by 20%, because they would have expanded the number of power teams by roughly 25%.

And that ain't happening. 07-coffee3
I agree. But just for fun:

PAC 12 adds UNLV, Colorado State, New Mexico, Boise State
B1G adds Virginia, North Carolina
SEC adds NC State, Virginia Tech
ACC adds Oklahoma, Texas, TCU, Houston, UConn, Notre Dame as a full member
Big 12 adds Tulsa, SMU, Memphis, USF, UCF, East Carolina, Cincinnati, Tulane

Wichita State joins the Atlantic 10 and Navy reverts to Independence.

MWC adds Idaho and New Mexico State.

If the Big 12 loses three to fall to seven, adding eight only gets them to 15, so you'd need another school. Air Force football would be the most obvious choice, though maybe they add a fourth southeast school to form a pod with USF/UCF/ECU, unless you count Cincinnati or West Virginia with those schools.

Wait! BYU! They'd almost certainly get the first call in this scenario. I'd bump Tulsa, SMU or Tulane to include them and Air Force.

Southwest: Texas Tech/Baylor/Kansas/Oklahoma State
Northwest: BYU/Air Force/Kansas State/Iowa State
East Coast: West Virginia/USF/UCF/ECU
Mid-South: Cincinnati/Memphis/Tulane/SMU


Obviously Kansas-KState is a protected rivalry. I'd think Tulsa is the odd AAC program out because of size, relative lack of athletic success and that Okie State would do what it could to keep them out. Air Force is probably the only MWC school they'd consider (maaaaaybe Wyoming or Nevada but both have issues). I'm sure the CUSA/MAC/Sun Belt schools would be dry-cleaning their go-to-church clothes but none of them are obvious adds at this point.

Navy would also be an obvious add but who do you bump for them? They like playing Tulane/SMU/Tulsa, which is why they're in the AAC's western division. Maybe ECU?

Or you could get really wacky and give Navy, AF and Army their own pod. Not sure how a three-team pod works in a 16-team conference, but if they think it's worth it, then they'll find a way.

If you're going with those 16, here's a better alignment:

East: Cincinnati, ECU, Iowa State, WVU
South: Memphis, Tulane, UCF, USF
North: Air Force, BYU, Kansas, Kansas State
West: Baylor, SMU, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

Or maybe go with your East pod and put Cincy and ISU with Memphis and Tulane.

That makes a pretty good G5 conference. Who is the survivor conferene here - the Big 12 or the AAC?

This 16-team setup is for the Big 12. In this scenario, the only remaining AAC schools are Temple and Tulsa. I doubt they stick together. Maybe they play rock-paper-scissors over who gets to keep the conference name.

More seriously, survival of the AAC even in some lesser form would depend on how this all would go down. If it happened over a few years rather than all at once, then the AAC might rebuild in the same way it did when evolving from the Big East.
(This post was last modified: 02-13-2018 02:03 PM by Nerdlinger.)
02-13-2018 02:00 PM
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ken d Online
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Post: #38
RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
(02-13-2018 02:00 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(02-04-2018 12:56 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(02-03-2018 07:46 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(02-03-2018 01:40 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(02-03-2018 01:45 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  I agree. But just for fun:

PAC 12 adds UNLV, Colorado State, New Mexico, Boise State
B1G adds Virginia, North Carolina
SEC adds NC State, Virginia Tech
ACC adds Oklahoma, Texas, TCU, Houston, UConn, Notre Dame as a full member
Big 12 adds Tulsa, SMU, Memphis, USF, UCF, East Carolina, Cincinnati, Tulane

Wichita State joins the Atlantic 10 and Navy reverts to Independence.

MWC adds Idaho and New Mexico State.

If the Big 12 loses three to fall to seven, adding eight only gets them to 15, so you'd need another school. Air Force football would be the most obvious choice, though maybe they add a fourth southeast school to form a pod with USF/UCF/ECU, unless you count Cincinnati or West Virginia with those schools.

Wait! BYU! They'd almost certainly get the first call in this scenario. I'd bump Tulsa, SMU or Tulane to include them and Air Force.

Southwest: Texas Tech/Baylor/Kansas/Oklahoma State
Northwest: BYU/Air Force/Kansas State/Iowa State
East Coast: West Virginia/USF/UCF/ECU
Mid-South: Cincinnati/Memphis/Tulane/SMU


Obviously Kansas-KState is a protected rivalry. I'd think Tulsa is the odd AAC program out because of size, relative lack of athletic success and that Okie State would do what it could to keep them out. Air Force is probably the only MWC school they'd consider (maaaaaybe Wyoming or Nevada but both have issues). I'm sure the CUSA/MAC/Sun Belt schools would be dry-cleaning their go-to-church clothes but none of them are obvious adds at this point.

Navy would also be an obvious add but who do you bump for them? They like playing Tulane/SMU/Tulsa, which is why they're in the AAC's western division. Maybe ECU?

Or you could get really wacky and give Navy, AF and Army their own pod. Not sure how a three-team pod works in a 16-team conference, but if they think it's worth it, then they'll find a way.

If you're going with those 16, here's a better alignment:

East: Cincinnati, ECU, Iowa State, WVU
South: Memphis, Tulane, UCF, USF
North: Air Force, BYU, Kansas, Kansas State
West: Baylor, SMU, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

Or maybe go with your East pod and put Cincy and ISU with Memphis and Tulane.

That makes a pretty good G5 conference. Who is the survivor conferene here - the Big 12 or the AAC?

This 16-team setup is for the Big 12. In this scenario, the only remaining AAC schools are Temple and Tulsa. I doubt they stick together. Maybe they play rock-paper-scissors over who gets to keep the conference name.

More seriously, survival of the AAC even in some lesser form would depend on how this all would go down. If it happened over a few years rather than all at once, then the AAC might rebuild in the same way it did when evolving from the Big East.

Wouldn't you agree that the B12 becomes G5 at this point, and that there would be only 4 power conferences?
02-13-2018 02:17 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #39
RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
(02-13-2018 02:17 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(02-13-2018 02:00 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(02-04-2018 12:56 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(02-03-2018 07:46 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(02-03-2018 01:40 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  If the Big 12 loses three to fall to seven, adding eight only gets them to 15, so you'd need another school. Air Force football would be the most obvious choice, though maybe they add a fourth southeast school to form a pod with USF/UCF/ECU, unless you count Cincinnati or West Virginia with those schools.

Wait! BYU! They'd almost certainly get the first call in this scenario. I'd bump Tulsa, SMU or Tulane to include them and Air Force.

Southwest: Texas Tech/Baylor/Kansas/Oklahoma State
Northwest: BYU/Air Force/Kansas State/Iowa State
East Coast: West Virginia/USF/UCF/ECU
Mid-South: Cincinnati/Memphis/Tulane/SMU


Obviously Kansas-KState is a protected rivalry. I'd think Tulsa is the odd AAC program out because of size, relative lack of athletic success and that Okie State would do what it could to keep them out. Air Force is probably the only MWC school they'd consider (maaaaaybe Wyoming or Nevada but both have issues). I'm sure the CUSA/MAC/Sun Belt schools would be dry-cleaning their go-to-church clothes but none of them are obvious adds at this point.

Navy would also be an obvious add but who do you bump for them? They like playing Tulane/SMU/Tulsa, which is why they're in the AAC's western division. Maybe ECU?

Or you could get really wacky and give Navy, AF and Army their own pod. Not sure how a three-team pod works in a 16-team conference, but if they think it's worth it, then they'll find a way.

If you're going with those 16, here's a better alignment:

East: Cincinnati, ECU, Iowa State, WVU
South: Memphis, Tulane, UCF, USF
North: Air Force, BYU, Kansas, Kansas State
West: Baylor, SMU, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

Or maybe go with your East pod and put Cincy and ISU with Memphis and Tulane.

That makes a pretty good G5 conference. Who is the survivor conferene here - the Big 12 or the AAC?

This 16-team setup is for the Big 12. In this scenario, the only remaining AAC schools are Temple and Tulsa. I doubt they stick together. Maybe they play rock-paper-scissors over who gets to keep the conference name.

More seriously, survival of the AAC even in some lesser form would depend on how this all would go down. If it happened over a few years rather than all at once, then the AAC might rebuild in the same way it did when evolving from the Big East.

Wouldn't you agree that the B12 becomes G5 at this point, and that there would be only 4 power conferences?

Oh, of course, or G6 perhaps. Definitely not a power conference with that lineup. But Cyniclone's scenario does meet the OP's overall goal of having all the current P5 conferences get to 16 teams in one manner or another.
(This post was last modified: 02-13-2018 02:32 PM by Nerdlinger.)
02-13-2018 02:28 PM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
(02-13-2018 02:28 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(02-13-2018 02:17 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(02-13-2018 02:00 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(02-04-2018 12:56 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(02-03-2018 07:46 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  If you're going with those 16, here's a better alignment:

East: Cincinnati, ECU, Iowa State, WVU
South: Memphis, Tulane, UCF, USF
North: Air Force, BYU, Kansas, Kansas State
West: Baylor, SMU, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

Or maybe go with your East pod and put Cincy and ISU with Memphis and Tulane.

That makes a pretty good G5 conference. Who is the survivor conferene here - the Big 12 or the AAC?

This 16-team setup is for the Big 12. In this scenario, the only remaining AAC schools are Temple and Tulsa. I doubt they stick together. Maybe they play rock-paper-scissors over who gets to keep the conference name.

More seriously, survival of the AAC even in some lesser form would depend on how this all would go down. If it happened over a few years rather than all at once, then the AAC might rebuild in the same way it did when evolving from the Big East.

Wouldn't you agree that the B12 becomes G5 at this point, and that there would be only 4 power conferences?

Oh, of course, or G6 perhaps. Definitely not a power conference with that lineup. But Cyniclone's scenario does meet the OP's overall goal of having all the current P5 conferences get to 16 teams in one manner or another.

If there is a move to P6, then it will be the American, who will add the other 4 best G5 teams to get to 16. 07-coffee3
02-13-2018 04:45 PM
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