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If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Exclamation If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams, what would happen? Currently, this is how the P5 is set up for football:

ACC has 14 teams (Notre Dame independent)
Big 10 has 14 teams
Big 12 has 10 teams
PAC 12 has 12 teams
SEC has 14 teams

The P5 membership is currently 64 teams. The P5 could become a separate NCAA division in all sports witn 80 teams and no independent membership. Which 16 teams would be added?

I think these are the candids to move up:

Air Force
Army
Boise
BYU
Central Florida
Cincinnati
Connecticut
East Carolina
Fresno State or SMU
Houston
Memphis
Navy
Notre Dame
San Diego State
South Florida
Temple

So which conferences would absorb these teams? I think the ACC would add Notre Dame and Connecticut or Cincinnati. Not sure about the rest.

Just curious on what you guys think. In fact I could see this division, leaving the NCAA all together. I truly believe the current NCAA has no real purpose any longer. It will die just like the AAU did. 07-coffee3
02-02-2018 09:26 AM
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10thMountain Offline
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RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
There won't be any coordinated effort to go to 16 together by promoting G5 teams

If the SEC, B1G and PAC expand they will do so by picking off the B12 and ACC and would not promote any G5 team directly.

The B12 and ACC would only do so after losing members as they have in the past.
(This post was last modified: 02-02-2018 09:37 AM by 10thMountain.)
02-02-2018 09:35 AM
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BadgerMJ Offline
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RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
(02-02-2018 09:26 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams, what would happen? Currently, this is how the P5 is set up for football:

ACC has 14 teams (Notre Dame independent)
Big 10 has 14 teams
Big 12 has 10 teams
PAC 12 has 12 teams
SEC has 14 teams

The P5 membership is currently 64 teams. The P5 could become a separate NCAA division in all sports witn 80 teams and no independent membership. Which 16 teams would be added?

I think these are the candids to move up:

Air Force
Army
Boise
BYU
Central Florida
Cincinnati
Connecticut
East Carolina
Fresno State or SMU
Houston
Memphis
Navy
Notre Dame
San Diego State
South Florida
Temple

So which conferences would absorb these teams? I think the ACC would add Notre Dame and Connecticut or Cincinnati. Not sure about the rest.

Just curious on what you guys think. In fact I could see this division, leaving the NCAA all together. I truly believe the current NCAA has no real purpose any longer. It will die just like the AAU did. 07-coffee3

The only school on that list that would not only be added, but have an open invitation to any conference would be ND.

The rest......

Ain't happening.
02-02-2018 09:40 AM
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Eldonabe Offline
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RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
IMO if this were ever to become a reality - I say HA HA...

With that should also come a review of all those who are in a P5 currently and make sure they still have the right to be there - Baylor comes to mind as a possible drop. I am not saying any should be dropped, but if they are going to hit the reset button, it should be done right all the way through - to that I also say HA HA!!!!
02-02-2018 09:41 AM
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ren.hoek Offline
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RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
(02-02-2018 09:35 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  There won't be any coordinated effort to go to 16 together by promoting G5 teams

If the SEC, B1G and PAC expand they will do so by picking off the B12 and ACC and would not promote any G5 team directly.

The B12 and ACC would only do so after losing members as they have in the past.

the ACC's GOR runs through 2036, so they're off limits for the foreseeable future. The B12 GOR expires in 2025ish and OU and Texas seem to have no interest in renewing it.
02-02-2018 09:43 AM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
And the ACC has the most viewers in its footprint. The ACC is stable. 07-coffee3
02-02-2018 09:48 AM
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CliftonAve Online
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RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
eff it--

We've seen this movie before. This thread will be filled with P5 posters saying G5 schools suck and should not be allowed to field a football team... every Tom and Harry G5 school fan will come in and say they are a sleeping giant and won't disappoint if invited. Let's try something different--- let's let the Top 20 P5 programs form their own league. The 45 leftovers from the P5 will be playing with the best of the G5. Let's see how good you non-elite P5 schools fare against the best of the G5, particularly since you will no longer have a recruiting advantage due to sponging off the Alabama's and Michigan's of the world.
02-02-2018 09:50 AM
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SC-KNIGHT Offline
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RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
(02-02-2018 09:41 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  IMO if this were ever to become a reality - I say HA HA...

With that should also come a review of all those who are in a P5 currently and make sure they still have the right to be there - Baylor comes to mind as a possible drop. I am not saying any should be dropped, but if they are going to hit the reset button, it should be done right all the way through - to that I also say HA HA!!!!

If Baylor is dropped - Penn St and now Michigan St should follow. They are one in the same at this point. 05-mafia 01-lauramac2 07-coffee3
02-02-2018 09:51 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
In order for this to happen, at least one P5 conference will have to be sacrificed, and that's in all likelihood the Big 12. The P5 conferences will not simply all retain their current members and fill up from the G5, as there's no strong incentive to do this. So it's basically a P4x16 scenario + Big 12 restocking to 16. Not likely, but not impossible.

ACC
East: Duke, North Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech
North: Boston College, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse
South: Florida State, Miami-FL, NC State, Wake Forest
West: Cincinnati, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Louisville

Big Ten
East: Maryland, Ohio State, Penn State, Rutgers
North: Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue
South: Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska
West: Illinois, Minnesota, Northwestern, Wisconsin

Pac-16
East: Houston, TCU, Texas, Texas Tech
North: Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State
South: Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Utah
West: California, Stanford, UCLA, USC

SEC
East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, West Virginia
North: Arkansas, Kentucky, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
South: Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi State, Ole Miss
West: LSU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M

Big 16 (AKA "The Reducing the Number of Anti-Breakaway Lawsuits Conference")
East: Central Florida, East Carolina, Memphis, South Florida
North: Army*, Connecticut, Navy*, Temple
South: Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas State, SMU
West: Air Force, Boise State, BYU, Colorado State
02-02-2018 10:13 AM
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ken d Online
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RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
(02-02-2018 10:13 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  In order for this to happen, at least one P5 conference will have to be sacrificed, and that's in all likelihood the Big 12. The P5 conferences will not simply all retain their current members and fill up from the G5, as there's no strong incentive to do this. So it's basically a P4x16 scenario + Big 12 restocking to 16. Not likely, but not impossible.

ACC
East: Duke, North Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech
North: Boston College, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse
South: Florida State, Miami-FL, NC State, Wake Forest
West: Cincinnati, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Louisville

Big Ten
East: Maryland, Ohio State, Penn State, Rutgers
North: Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue
South: Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska
West: Illinois, Minnesota, Northwestern, Wisconsin

Pac-16
East: Houston, TCU, Texas, Texas Tech
North: Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State
South: Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Utah
West: California, Stanford, UCLA, USC

SEC
East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, West Virginia
North: Arkansas, Kentucky, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
South: Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi State, Ole Miss
West: LSU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M

Big 16 (AKA "The Reducing the Number of Anti-Breakaway Lawsuits Conference")
East: Central Florida, East Carolina, Memphis, South Florida
North: Army*, Connecticut, Navy*, Temple
South: Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas State, SMU
West: Air Force, Boise State, BYU, Colorado State

Wouldn't it be simpler for the AAC to just add Kansas State, Iowa State, Baylor and one other school and remain the strongest G5 conference? Or, the ACC could stay at 14, leaving Cincy as the AAC's 16th team and ND as an Independent.
02-02-2018 10:42 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
(02-02-2018 10:42 AM)ken d Wrote:  Wouldn't it be simpler for the AAC to just add Kansas State, Iowa State, Baylor and one other school and remain the strongest G5 conference? Or, the ACC could stay at 14, leaving Cincy as the AAC's 16th team and ND as an Independent.

The premise of the thread is that the P5 conferences go to 16. Also, unless the Big 12 completely dissolves, the movement of schools will be from G5 to Big 12 and not the other way around.
02-02-2018 10:57 AM
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TerryD Online
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RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
(02-02-2018 09:35 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  There won't be any coordinated effort to go to 16 together by promoting G5 teams

If the SEC, B1G and PAC expand they will do so by picking off the B12 and ACC and would not promote any G5 team directly.

The B12 and ACC would only do so after losing members as they have in the past.

This ignores the ACC exit fee and GOR until 2036.
02-02-2018 11:05 AM
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jaredf29 Offline
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RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
All G5 schools suck!
02-02-2018 11:15 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
(02-02-2018 11:05 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(02-02-2018 09:35 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  There won't be any coordinated effort to go to 16 together by promoting G5 teams

If the SEC, B1G and PAC expand they will do so by picking off the B12 and ACC and would not promote any G5 team directly.

The B12 and ACC would only do so after losing members as they have in the past.

This ignores the ACC exit fee and GOR until 2036.

Those can be litigated. What do you think the court settlement price for FSU to leave the ACC would be right now? $60 million?
02-02-2018 11:16 AM
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ken d Online
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RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
(02-02-2018 11:16 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-02-2018 11:05 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(02-02-2018 09:35 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  There won't be any coordinated effort to go to 16 together by promoting G5 teams

If the SEC, B1G and PAC expand they will do so by picking off the B12 and ACC and would not promote any G5 team directly.

The B12 and ACC would only do so after losing members as they have in the past.

This ignores the ACC exit fee and GOR until 2036.

Those can be litigated. What do you think the court settlement price for FSU to leave the ACC would be right now? $60 million?

More likely negotiated than litigated.
02-02-2018 12:03 PM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
NIU is a sleeping giant and won't disappoint if invited.
02-02-2018 01:16 PM
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XLance Offline
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RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
If we go to a P4 then Notre Dame stays semi-independent until the end of the contract (if they choose).
02-02-2018 01:29 PM
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TerryD Online
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RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
(02-02-2018 11:16 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-02-2018 11:05 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(02-02-2018 09:35 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  There won't be any coordinated effort to go to 16 together by promoting G5 teams

If the SEC, B1G and PAC expand they will do so by picking off the B12 and ACC and would not promote any G5 team directly.

The B12 and ACC would only do so after losing members as they have in the past.

This ignores the ACC exit fee and GOR until 2036.

Those can be litigated. What do you think the court settlement price for FSU to leave the ACC would be right now? $60 million?


No idea. Eighteen years of TV rights under the GOR plus the exit fees? How many tens of millions is that?

I think anyone who believes that a GOR of that length will be challenged in court needs to buy swamp land on Mars.
(This post was last modified: 02-02-2018 08:06 PM by TerryD.)
02-02-2018 02:13 PM
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ken d Online
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RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
(02-02-2018 10:57 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(02-02-2018 10:42 AM)ken d Wrote:  Wouldn't it be simpler for the AAC to just add Kansas State, Iowa State, Baylor and one other school and remain the strongest G5 conference? Or, the ACC could stay at 14, leaving Cincy as the AAC's 16th team and ND as an Independent.

The premise of the thread is that the P5 conferences go to 16. Also, unless the Big 12 completely dissolves, the movement of schools will be from G5 to Big 12 and not the other way around.

Except that in your example you count a 3 team Big 12, supplemented by G5 adds, as a 16 team P5. I don't see it that way.
02-02-2018 02:25 PM
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OdinFrigg Offline
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RE: If the P5 Conferences all go to 16 teams
P5 conferences getting together and deciding who among them moves and where, has never happened before and is very unlikely to happen in the foreseeable future.
Acquisitions are not always amiable, many involving some litigation. Conferences pursue self-interests, and agreements with other conferences are based on self-interests, and less about the welfare of the collective.. Membership in a conference is perhaps the most protective aspect when it come to decision-making.

There will be future changes, but it will based on timing, accessibility/availability, ambitions, agreement within, and attitudinal and financial conditions of the moment. Piecemeal processes shall continue. Adding just one school can be a profound decision. Losing one or more show vulnerabilities.
02-02-2018 03:34 PM
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