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Programs that are sleeping giants
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Soobahk40050 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
One thing not mentioned here:

Enrollment numbers

Liberty 110,000 (assuming this includes online, but means $$$)

Grand Canyon 71,000

UCF 69,000

FIU 60,000

Given time each of these has a chance.
02-04-2018 01:23 PM
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Post: #22
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
There are no sleeping giants in football. Other than the Florida schools, the teams at the top are the same teams you would see in the late 60s and early 70s.

Basketball where you only use 7-8 players is different.
02-04-2018 02:11 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-04-2018 01:04 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  Texas st !

Great OCS (actually drool worthy OCS), huge traditional student population too.

The only problem.....ooooh the product. Its bad....really bad. 4-29 against FBS in the last 3 years. And a bad football coach. JMU easily went to the tip top of FCS with his players.

Men's basketball...hasn't been to the dance in 20 years. Facilities are awful too.
02-04-2018 02:15 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-04-2018 01:23 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  One thing not mentioned here:

Enrollment numbers

Liberty 110,000 (assuming this includes online, but means $$$)

Grand Canyon 71,000

UCF 69,000

FIU 60,000

Given time each of these has a chance.

Liberty's on campus enrollment....15,000 students.
Grand Canyon Education, Incorporated's on campus enrollment...19,500 of which many are non-traditional

Liberty is not going to be the next Notre Dame. They're not going to be the next BYU either. They're just going to spend 400 million bucks in 10 years to be a sub-Sun Belt level program. They're not getting in a conference. They're not going to have a bowl agreement. They also have a bad football coach that doesn't appear to be retained based upon wins and losses. BYU, which 'won' a friggin' national championship has significant problems staying relevant as an indy. And they, like LU, supposedly claim the loyalty of a large national fanbase (but BYU actually retains some of that claimed support). Liberty will face the same problems. Heck, a couple of bowls collapse and LU might be in a position where even if they cobble together 7 or so wins, that they'll end up staying home. Its instructive that conferences from the Southern Conference, to the Colonial, to the Sun Belt have zero interest in adding them. And what happens if in 2021 or so, there's a change in the student loan program that cuts off access to the loan program in the case of higher than average defaults in distance learning programs by major or study field? Or the NCAA introduces a non-discrimination policy? Sure, lightning could strike. But they'll always have to spend (a LOT) more for less. Not sure that it is really going to work out in the long run.

Grand Canyon Education, Incorporated is stuck in the worst D1 conference for a reason. Their basketball is actually credible at a lower mid-major level. But scheduling is a problem. Terrible scheduling = very bad opportunities to get a NCAA bid. And the WAC could end up falling apart and GCEI could end up with no access to the NCAA dance. And watch out for stricter default rate scrutiny on long distance learning too.

Sure,

UCF and FIU...yep, those have a shot. UCF much more so than FIU. The problem with FIU is that they have a greater non-traditional enrollment and they have a large student population that doesn't come from a football heritage. And then there's the Dolphins and Da U.
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2018 02:40 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
02-04-2018 02:17 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-04-2018 02:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  There are no sleeping giants in football. Other than the Florida schools, the teams at the top are the same teams you would see in the late 60s and early 70s.

Basketball where you only use 7-8 players is different.

Exactly. You have to reserve the term "Giant" for a team that has a chance to be a dominant force at the top level of football.

Probably the last prescient example of that was Bear Bryant's circa-1970 comment to the effect that if "they ever got their act together" down in Gainesville, Florida could be a dominant team.

There's nothing like that out there now.
02-04-2018 02:27 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-04-2018 02:27 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-04-2018 02:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  There are no sleeping giants in football. Other than the Florida schools, the teams at the top are the same teams you would see in the late 60s and early 70s.

Basketball where you only use 7-8 players is different.

Exactly. You have to reserve the term "Giant" for a team that has a chance to be a dominant force at the top level of football.

Probably the last prescient example of that was Bear Bryant's circa-1970 comment to the effect that if "they ever got their act together" down in Gainesville, Florida could be a dominant team.

There's nothing like that out there now.

using that metric...I'll throw out a program that has more resources than anyone else, but just hasn't been able to figure out how to apply them.....

Texas A&M
02-04-2018 02:39 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-04-2018 02:39 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(02-04-2018 02:27 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-04-2018 02:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  There are no sleeping giants in football. Other than the Florida schools, the teams at the top are the same teams you would see in the late 60s and early 70s.

Basketball where you only use 7-8 players is different.

Exactly. You have to reserve the term "Giant" for a team that has a chance to be a dominant force at the top level of football.

Probably the last prescient example of that was Bear Bryant's circa-1970 comment to the effect that if "they ever got their act together" down in Gainesville, Florida could be a dominant team.

There's nothing like that out there now.

using that metric...I'll throw out a program that has more resources than anyone else, but just hasn't been able to figure out how to apply them.....

Texas A&M

Yes but, TAMU is clearly a major player in the college football world. In the past 20 years, they've played in 4 Cotton Bowls and a Sugar Bowl. They are regularly ranked in the top 25, etc.

Given their resources, they are underachievers, sure. But i wouldn't call them "sleeping", which IMO implies a moribund program that is pretty much nowhere right now.

So shoot me for nit-picking all of this, LOL.
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2018 02:49 PM by quo vadis.)
02-04-2018 02:48 PM
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Post: #28
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-04-2018 12:13 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  Miami. There's a reason we're historically the best football and basketball school in the MAC, our academics/campus/alumni wealth are unparalleled among conference peers while the 'Miami Valley' market (north Cincy suburbs up to Dayton) is ours for the taking again after we abandoned it when we decided to suck the last decade-plus in both revenue sports. We're still picking up the pieces from the mess our old AD left, but basketball is really turning around and football is no longer a doormat (it's just a matter of coaching at this point).

Not that MiamI University, the "U"niversity of Miami.
02-04-2018 03:04 PM
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Post: #29
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-04-2018 02:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(02-04-2018 01:04 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  Texas st !

Great OCS (actually drool worthy OCS), huge traditional student population too.

The only problem.....ooooh the product. Its bad....really bad. 4-29 against FBS in the last 3 years. And a bad football coach. JMU easily went to the tip top of FCS with his players.

Men's basketball...hasn't been to the dance in 20 years. Facilities are awful too.

Houston is what Texas State would be.
02-04-2018 03:10 PM
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Post: #30
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
Or Texas Tech...

There's only so much room at the inn, even in a large state like Texas.
02-04-2018 03:11 PM
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Side Show Joe Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-04-2018 08:29 AM)esayem Wrote:  A few that come to mind:


Colorado

UNLV

New Mexico

DePaul

Tennessee football (that one is easy)

North Texas or any of the mid-major public Texas schools

North Carolina football 04-wine

North Texas is certainly on the rise. The Mean Green finished last season 9-5, and set a new attendance record. QB Mason Fine who through for over 4,000 yards and more then 30 TDs is returning. Plus, he gets all three of his top receivers back too. If the terrible defense shows any improvement North Texas could be in for a very special season, and their third straight bowl.

North Texas basketball has also done a 180. After multiple seasons under Benford, in which the team never recorded a winning season, the Mean Green have a good coach and a respectable team. Currently UNT is tied for 3th in an improving C-USA conference, and sits 13-10 overall. Not a great record but, certainly a huge improvement over our previous 5 seasons.

North Texas is becoming one of the better G5 athletic programs in Texas. With around 40,000 students, 300,000 alumni, and located in the very large Dallas/Fort Worth media market, UNT is well positioned to emerge as a G5 power.
02-04-2018 03:20 PM
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Post: #32
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-04-2018 02:27 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-04-2018 02:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  There are no sleeping giants in football. Other than the Florida schools, the teams at the top are the same teams you would see in the late 60s and early 70s.

Basketball where you only use 7-8 players is different.

Exactly. You have to reserve the term "Giant" for a team that has a chance to be a dominant force at the top level of football.

Probably the last prescient example of that was Bear Bryant's circa-1970 comment to the effect that if "they ever got their act together" down in Gainesville, Florida could be a dominant team.

There's nothing like that out there now.

Sure there is but it's a much smaller pool.
02-04-2018 03:38 PM
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Love and Honor Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-04-2018 03:04 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(02-04-2018 12:13 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  Miami. There's a reason we're historically the best football and basketball school in the MAC, our academics/campus/alumni wealth are unparalleled among conference peers while the 'Miami Valley' market (north Cincy suburbs up to Dayton) is ours for the taking again after we abandoned it when we decided to suck the last decade-plus in both revenue sports. We're still picking up the pieces from the mess our old AD left, but basketball is really turning around and football is no longer a doormat (it's just a matter of coaching at this point).

Not that MiamI University, the "U"niversity of Miami.

In terms of actual giants sure, there are inherent institutional factors that will keep us from being a real player in the college athletics world. But for G5 football or mid-major basketball the original Miami (founded a a few decades before Miami, FL and more than a century before The U), it's far from improbable. There's a reason all but one of the MAC's at-large bids were from Miami, why we're the Cradle of Coaches for football, why we went from some of the worst facilities in FBS five years ago to borderline P5 today. We're too far behind to make serious waves, but there's no reason we shouldn't be Toledo in football and what Akron has been for basketball this past decade at the minimum.
02-04-2018 03:43 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-04-2018 02:48 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-04-2018 02:39 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(02-04-2018 02:27 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-04-2018 02:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  There are no sleeping giants in football. Other than the Florida schools, the teams at the top are the same teams you would see in the late 60s and early 70s.

Basketball where you only use 7-8 players is different.

Exactly. You have to reserve the term "Giant" for a team that has a chance to be a dominant force at the top level of football.

Probably the last prescient example of that was Bear Bryant's circa-1970 comment to the effect that if "they ever got their act together" down in Gainesville, Florida could be a dominant team.

There's nothing like that out there now.

using that metric...I'll throw out a program that has more resources than anyone else, but just hasn't been able to figure out how to apply them.....

Texas A&M

Yes but, TAMU is clearly a major player in the college football world. In the past 20 years, they've played in 4 Cotton Bowls and a Sugar Bowl. They are regularly ranked in the top 25, etc.

Given their resources, they are underachievers, sure. But i wouldn't call them "sleeping", which IMO implies a moribund program that is pretty much nowhere right now.

So shoot me for nit-picking all of this, LOL.

Oh come on, the Sugar Bowl was exactly 20 years ago (it happened January 1 of 1999 but whose counting?). Other than Johnny Football's big year, Texas A&M has been irrelevant, at least as a nationally relevant program.

That said, I agree with the other poster, you don't have to be some unknown or unheralded program to be a power.
02-04-2018 03:54 PM
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Post: #35
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
If we didn't have state legislature pass a bill that impacted our ability and our administration would make some decisions a while ago about the new stadium we might be on this list.

Posted from mobile device. Hopefully it's coherent.
02-04-2018 04:35 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-04-2018 02:48 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-04-2018 02:39 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(02-04-2018 02:27 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-04-2018 02:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  There are no sleeping giants in football. Other than the Florida schools, the teams at the top are the same teams you would see in the late 60s and early 70s.

Basketball where you only use 7-8 players is different.

Exactly. You have to reserve the term "Giant" for a team that has a chance to be a dominant force at the top level of football.

Probably the last prescient example of that was Bear Bryant's circa-1970 comment to the effect that if "they ever got their act together" down in Gainesville, Florida could be a dominant team.

There's nothing like that out there now.

using that metric...I'll throw out a program that has more resources than anyone else, but just hasn't been able to figure out how to apply them.....

Texas A&M

Yes but, TAMU is clearly a major player in the college football world. In the past 20 years, they've played in 4 Cotton Bowls and a Sugar Bowl. They are regularly ranked in the top 25, etc.

Given their resources, they are underachievers, sure. But i wouldn't call them "sleeping", which IMO implies a moribund program that is pretty much nowhere right now.

So shoot me for nit-picking all of this, LOL.

Ah yes, and they just hired Jackie Sherrill 2.0!
02-04-2018 05:07 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-04-2018 01:23 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  One thing not mentioned here:

Enrollment numbers

Liberty 110,000 (assuming this includes online, but means $$$)

Grand Canyon 71,000

UCF 69,000

FIU 60,000

Given time each of these has a chance.

Liberty. Forgot about them. I know Tommy Lazybrook said they won’t be the next BYU, but I bet they will. Every school that ever became successful had the willingness to spend money. Agree with their mission or not (personally I don’t), but they’re going to make it as an independent.
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2018 05:15 PM by esayem.)
02-04-2018 05:12 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
Ah, mother "Pimp My School" thread.
02-04-2018 05:13 PM
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Mav Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-04-2018 02:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  There are no sleeping giants in football. Other than the Florida schools, the teams at the top are the same teams you would see in the late 60s and early 70s.

Basketball where you only use 7-8 players is different.
Yeah, I mean, TCU, Oregon, and Wisconsin were so competitive back then, and Nebraska, Tennessee, and Colorado are doing so well. We might as well pack it in and accept Alabama running the sport until they try to outlaw football again.
Bad post. There's still room to rise and fall.
02-04-2018 05:42 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-04-2018 05:42 PM)Mav Wrote:  
(02-04-2018 02:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  There are no sleeping giants in football. Other than the Florida schools, the teams at the top are the same teams you would see in the late 60s and early 70s.

Basketball where you only use 7-8 players is different.
Yeah, I mean, TCU, Oregon, and Wisconsin were so competitive back then, and Nebraska, Tennessee, and Colorado are doing so well. We might as well pack it in and accept Alabama running the sport until they try to outlaw football again.
Bad post. There's still room to rise and fall.

Yep, lots of examples. Add in Virginia Tech, Miami(FL), Louisville, etc. On the flip side schools like Pitt, Syracuse, Purdue and Minnesota were once powerhouses.

Fortunes change all the time
02-04-2018 06:08 PM
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