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Programs that are sleeping giants
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_C2_ Online
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Post: #61
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-05-2018 03:51 PM)HoustonCajun Wrote:  
(02-04-2018 06:08 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(02-04-2018 05:42 PM)Mav Wrote:  
(02-04-2018 02:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  There are no sleeping giants in football. Other than the Florida schools, the teams at the top are the same teams you would see in the late 60s and early 70s.

Basketball where you only use 7-8 players is different.
Yeah, I mean, TCU, Oregon, and Wisconsin were so competitive back then, and Nebraska, Tennessee, and Colorado are doing so well. We might as well pack it in and accept Alabama running the sport until they try to outlaw football again.
Bad post. There's still room to rise and fall.

Yep, lots of examples. Add in Virginia Tech, Miami(FL), Louisville, etc. On the flip side schools like Pitt, Syracuse, Purdue and Minnesota were once powerhouses.

Fortunes change all the time

Add in Louisiana. The Ragin Cajuns are currently 20-3 in basketball, Top 20 in baseball and softball (both voted the best atmospheres in the country), football went to 5 bowls in last 7 years (won 4 straight but down last 2 years, so just hired OC from AZ State as new HC in football), recently spent ~ $50M on facilities (Athletic Performance Center, Cajun Dome renovations, Indoor Practice Facility upgrade, new Baseball Stadium, upgraded Softball facility, end zone football stadium expansion to 43,000 (full football stadium upgrade - increase seating from 43,000 to 50,000, suites, new press box, administrative offices to come shortly), new AD from Missouri, and at long last a commitment from the President to move athletics to another level. Keep an eye on UL.

They may be sleeping but aren't giants. Maybe if they could convince people that they are the state flagship and not LSU.
02-05-2018 06:20 PM
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McKinney Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-05-2018 06:20 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  They may be sleeping but aren't giants. Maybe if they could convince people that they are the state flagship and not LSU.

Why in the world would LSU be ok with that?
02-05-2018 07:05 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-05-2018 07:05 PM)McKinney Wrote:  
(02-05-2018 06:20 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  They may be sleeping but aren't giants. Maybe if they could convince people that they are the state flagship and not LSU.

Why in the world would LSU be ok with that?

The aren't. The school is called the University of Louisiana at Lafayette and they were only allowed to change the name from Southwest Louisiana if they could convince another institution to change its name to University of Louisiana at (name of community here). The convinced Northeast Louisiana to change its name to ULM (Louisiana Monroe).

ULL tries to simply stylize itself as the University of Louisiana. Its really stupid in my opinion. Nobody thinks that Alabama State is Auburn because the school in Montgomery is a "State" school. No one puts Texas State with Texas A&M as true peers. Ohio University is not a peer of Ohio State. The University of Hawai'i is stylized as Hawai'i Manoa on the islands with no loss of respect.

What's so dumb about this whole thing is that ULL has so much to be proud about. Growing enrollments and a strong and well supported athletic program. None of that was the result of the name change.

I'll continue to use ULL. Not because I'm trying to get their goat, but because ULL is the only ULL out there. And to use UL implies that the University of Louisiana campus in Lafayette is somehow the lead school of the whole system, to which Louisiana Monroe belongs to as well (as a peer). Its just easier to differentiate to just use ULL. When appropriate, I'll just use Cajuns to sidestep it, but that is only when referring to their athletic program. Not going to correct any Cajuns fans who use UL or University of Louisiana either.

Win some more significant OOC games and the Cajuns might get the heft to make a name for itself. Probably should work on getting their own BOT as well first.

---

By the way, Auburn University only got to change its name after they earned that through prominence (until 1960, it was named The Alabama Polytechnic Institute)
(This post was last modified: 02-05-2018 07:21 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
02-05-2018 07:17 PM
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Post: #64
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-04-2018 05:42 PM)Mav Wrote:  
(02-04-2018 02:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  There are no sleeping giants in football. Other than the Florida schools, the teams at the top are the same teams you would see in the late 60s and early 70s.

Basketball where you only use 7-8 players is different.
Yeah, I mean, TCU, Oregon, and Wisconsin were so competitive back then, and Nebraska, Tennessee, and Colorado are doing so well. We might as well pack it in and accept Alabama running the sport until they try to outlaw football again.
Bad post. There's still room to rise and fall.

Oregon had a great run since 2010. It appears to be over. Wisconsin is just getting into that 3rd tier behind the kings and the SEC 4 (Auburn, LSU, TN, UGA). The only time they made the final top 5 was at #4 in 1999. TCU has done well, but again, are still working their way into that 3rd tier. None of them are giants.

There are 17 schools that have won AP national championships since 1984. They have 82 of the 99 top 3 finishes. With UGA and Oregon added, its 89 of 99. Washington and TCU are the only other schools with more than 1 in that 33 year period (each has two). And if you go back to the late 60s and early 70s, its that same group of 17 schools at the top (except for the 3 Florida schools who did move up in the 80s and early 90s).
02-05-2018 07:25 PM
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Post: #65
Programs that are sleeping giants
UCF is not sleeping and they are not a giant. Boise is not sleeping and they are not a giant.

None of these schools are going to both wake up and be a giant under the current cartel rules.

Some sort of future conference realignment might do it for a school or two. But only at the whim of the P5 and not through anything they do on their own.

Its not like there are endless slots in the cartel that you can get promoted into if you do a, b, and c.

It will ultimately require playoff access before these school's really have an opportunity to bootstrap themselves into giant status.

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02-05-2018 07:29 PM
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Post: #66
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
1. Colorado St


And The FBS flagships that aren’t P5:

Uconn
UMASS
New Mexico
Wyoming
Nevada
Hawaii

Boise St: is not a Flagship...however with Idaho going FCS, maybe they get some sort of special status...

Rice, SMU and Tulane: choose not to spend money on sports, if they did they’d be with their peers in the SEC or Big 12.

Buffalo: Kind of like a Tulane to me. AAU. “U of New York” would be cool.

I don’t list Houston, UCF, USF and ECU as they have several schools in their own states blocking them from breaking through.
02-05-2018 07:32 PM
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Post: #67
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-05-2018 07:17 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(02-05-2018 07:05 PM)McKinney Wrote:  
(02-05-2018 06:20 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  They may be sleeping but aren't giants. Maybe if they could convince people that they are the state flagship and not LSU.

Why in the world would LSU be ok with that?

The aren't. The school is called the University of Louisiana at Lafayette and they were only allowed to change the name from Southwest Louisiana if they could convince another institution to change its name to University of Louisiana at (name of community here). The convinced Northeast Louisiana to change its name to ULM (Louisiana Monroe).

ULL tries to simply stylize itself as the University of Louisiana. Its really stupid in my opinion. Nobody thinks that Alabama State is Auburn because the school in Montgomery is a "State" school. No one puts Texas State with Texas A&M as true peers. Ohio University is not a peer of Ohio State. The University of Hawai'i is stylized as Hawai'i Manoa on the islands with no loss of respect.

What's so dumb about this whole thing is that ULL has so much to be proud about. Growing enrollments and a strong and well supported athletic program. None of that was the result of the name change.

I'll continue to use ULL. Not because I'm trying to get their goat, but because ULL is the only ULL out there. And to use UL implies that the University of Louisiana campus in Lafayette is somehow the lead school of the whole system, to which Louisiana Monroe belongs to as well (as a peer). Its just easier to differentiate to just use ULL. When appropriate, I'll just use Cajuns to sidestep it, but that is only when referring to their athletic program. Not going to correct any Cajuns fans who use UL or University of Louisiana either.

Win some more significant OOC games and the Cajuns might get the heft to make a name for itself. Probably should work on getting their own BOT as well first.

---

By the way, Auburn University only got to change its name after they earned that through prominence (until 1960, it was named The Alabama Polytechnic Institute)

Ohio U. has been around a lot longer than Ohio St. Ohio St. is the interloper who has tried to steal their name (and gotten slapped down by the courts).
02-05-2018 07:37 PM
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Post: #68
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-05-2018 07:17 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(02-05-2018 07:05 PM)McKinney Wrote:  
(02-05-2018 06:20 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  They may be sleeping but aren't giants. Maybe if they could convince people that they are the state flagship and not LSU.

Why in the world would LSU be ok with that?

The aren't. The school is called the University of Louisiana at Lafayette and they were only allowed to change the name from Southwest Louisiana if they could convince another institution to change its name to University of Louisiana at (name of community here). The convinced Northeast Louisiana to change its name to ULM (Louisiana Monroe).

ULL tries to simply stylize itself as the University of Louisiana. Its really stupid in my opinion. Nobody thinks that Alabama State is Auburn because the school in Montgomery is a "State" school. No one puts Texas State with Texas A&M as true peers. Ohio University is not a peer of Ohio State. The University of Hawai'i is stylized as Hawai'i Manoa on the islands with no loss of respect.

What's so dumb about this whole thing is that ULL has so much to be proud about. Growing enrollments and a strong and well supported athletic program. None of that was the result of the name change.

I'll continue to use ULL. Not because I'm trying to get their goat, but because ULL is the only ULL out there. And to use UL implies that the University of Louisiana campus in Lafayette is somehow the lead school of the whole system, to which Louisiana Monroe belongs to as well (as a peer). Its just easier to differentiate to just use ULL. When appropriate, I'll just use Cajuns to sidestep it, but that is only when referring to their athletic program. Not going to correct any Cajuns fans who use UL or University of Louisiana either.

Win some more significant OOC games and the Cajuns might get the heft to make a name for itself. Probably should work on getting their own BOT as well first.

---

By the way, Auburn University only got to change its name after they earned that through prominence (until 1960, it was named The Alabama Polytechnic Institute)

You think it doesn't but it does. Texas State is obviously not a peer of Texas or even Texas Tech but the name change has helped, as it did for (Southwest) Missouri State.

I would look at Louisiana-Lafayette better if they were just Louisiana, it just sounds more official.
02-05-2018 09:39 PM
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Post: #69
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-05-2018 07:37 PM)bullet Wrote:  Ohio U. has been around a lot longer than Ohio St. Ohio St. is the interloper who has tried to steal their name (and gotten slapped down by the courts).

OU and Miami both were actually founded decades before OSU, but after the Civil War then-governor Rutherford Hayes pushed for a new university to be founded as the land grant flagship in Columbus. It's not hard to imagine a scenario where Miami and Ohio U were designated as dual flagships similar to IU and Purdue.

Regarding Illinois I think a lot of their problems are institutional in nature and some of that has to do with the big political mess that's gripped Springfield for years. Another problem is how Chicago is such a big alumni base for other Big Ten schools and Notre Dame, neither they nor Northwestern have been able to really capture the market to its full potential. But imo U of I could easily become one of those middle conference teams that wins six to eight games every year with an occasional nine win season sprinkled in, and their fans would probably be thrilled with consistency at that level.
02-05-2018 10:04 PM
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Post: #70
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-05-2018 07:32 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  1. Colorado St


And The FBS flagships that aren’t P5:

Uconn
UMASS
New Mexico
Wyoming
Nevada
Hawaii

Boise St: is not a Flagship...however with Idaho going FCS, maybe they get some sort of special status...

Rice, SMU and Tulane: choose not to spend money on sports, if they did they’d be with their peers in the SEC or Big 12.

Buffalo: Kind of like a Tulane to me. AAU. “U of New York” would be cool.

I don’t list Houston, UCF, USF and ECU as they have several schools in their own states blocking them from breaking through.

New Mexico, UConn and Hawai'i maybe. The rest are doing good to be where they are. Wyoming would be Idaho if they weren't the only major school in their state and relatively close to Denver. Nevada is similar, except despite it's designation, it's the branch campus compared to UNLV.

UMass? LOL
02-05-2018 10:54 PM
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Post: #71
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
Nevada was known as Nevada-Reno and the name change helped them as did Memphis changing from Memphis State. Sometimes perception goes a long way. UL Lafayette is known as Louisiana on ESPN, so I believe it's working.
02-06-2018 12:53 AM
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Post: #72
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
Not in the case of Louisiana-Lafayette. They're interchangeable with Monroe.

Even if we didn't know about the hyphen, they'd look like Ohio compared to Ohio State.
02-06-2018 01:00 AM
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Post: #73
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-05-2018 07:05 PM)McKinney Wrote:  
(02-05-2018 06:20 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  They may be sleeping but aren't giants. Maybe if they could convince people that they are the state flagship and not LSU.

Why in the world would LSU be ok with that?

Actually, it would be better to leave LSU as the flagship, but strip it of its land grant functions and give those to Louisiana. And before anyone else says it, I would be fine with Georgia State taking UGA’s land-grant functions, leaving UGA as the state of Georgia’s flagship university.
02-06-2018 04:04 AM
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Gamecock Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
I think people are confusing what a sleeping giant means. A sleeping giant is someone that has the potential to become a powerhouse year in and year out, like Florida did in the 1990s.

You could say most of the bottom 2/3 of P5 conferences are “sleeping giants”. Texas A&M, South Carolina, Arkansas for example all have tons of support, close talent, and a clear path to the playoff but haven’t been able to do it.
02-06-2018 08:00 AM
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Post: #75
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-06-2018 08:00 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  I think people are confusing what a sleeping giant means. A sleeping giant is someone that has the potential to become a powerhouse year in and year out, like Florida did in the 1990s.

You could say most of the bottom 2/3 of P5 conferences are “sleeping giants”. Texas A&M, South Carolina, Arkansas for example all have tons of support, close talent, and a clear path to the playoff but haven’t been able to do it.

There is nothing sleeping about aTm. They make too damn much noise and won't shut up. Underachieving? yes. But sleeping? No.
02-06-2018 08:14 AM
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Post: #76
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-06-2018 04:04 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(02-05-2018 07:05 PM)McKinney Wrote:  
(02-05-2018 06:20 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  They may be sleeping but aren't giants. Maybe if they could convince people that they are the state flagship and not LSU.

Why in the world would LSU be ok with that?

Actually, it would be better to leave LSU as the flagship, but strip it of its land grant functions and give those to Louisiana. And before anyone else says it, I would be fine with Georgia State taking UGA’s land-grant functions, leaving UGA as the state of Georgia’s flagship university.

You forget what land-grant means. Those are the ag schools. LSU has a very strong ag school. Don't know if ULL has any ag school. UGA has a top 5 ag school. Georgia St. doesn't have anything like that.
02-06-2018 09:08 AM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-06-2018 08:00 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  I think people are confusing what a sleeping giant means. A sleeping giant is someone that has the potential to become a powerhouse year in and year out, like Florida did in the 1990s.

You could say most of the bottom 2/3 of P5 conferences are “sleeping giants”. Texas A&M, South Carolina, Arkansas for example all have tons of support, close talent, and a clear path to the playoff but haven’t been able to do it.

Agree with the definition of sleeping giant, but disagree that most of the bottom 2/3rd have the potential to a be powerhouse year in and out. There's 15-20 programs right now that are legit powerhouses, there's at best only another 10-12 that has the potential to be one if the invest their resources, hire the right guy or two to take them to the promised land.
02-06-2018 09:22 AM
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HoustonCajun Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-06-2018 01:00 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Not in the case of Louisiana-Lafayette. They're interchangeable with Monroe.

Even if we didn't know about the hyphen, they'd look like Ohio compared to Ohio State.

Like Nevada-Reno and Nevada-Las Vegas. One now goes by Nevada and the other UNLV. Louisiana Monroe has branded itself ULM. Louisiana Lafayette is branded Louisiana. Every school has a right to brand itself. Most schools do not use their official names anyway. Virginia Tech is the Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University. Georgia Tech is the Georgia Institute of Technology. Fresno State is Cal State - Fresno. LSU is the Louisiana State University and Agricultural and Mechanical College (LSU A&M). Nebraska is Nebraska - Lincoln. Wisconsin is Wisconsin - Madison. North Carolina is North Carolina - Chapel Hill. Texas is Texas at Austin. Charlotte is UNC-Charlotte. Milwaukee is UW-Milwaukee.

And, yes, we are like Ohio and Ohio State. Louisiana and Louisiana State. We are not trying to surpass LSU, just carve our own niche. Like Ohio and Ohio State, there is no problem in our coexisting. As someone else pointed out, Texas State' has no impact on Texas or Texas A&M. Why is so much made with our branding ourselves as Louisiana? The Sun Belt Conference recognizes us as Louisiana and ULM. ESPN and the other networks are now on board with Louisiana. Louisiana is now here to stay. May as well get on board with it.
02-06-2018 09:36 AM
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Post: #79
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-05-2018 10:13 AM)colohank Wrote:  How about the University of Texas at Austin? Flagship university of a very high population state, large enrollment, great academics, top research profile, huge endowment, lots of wealthy benefactors, sweet TV deal, member of a P5 conference, but major sports there ain't what they used to be. Let's face it, in spite of the condescension and air of entitlement in Austin, they've sucked. Kind of like a gorgeous cheerleader with terminal halitosis. Really bad. But if they could get their act together, they might amount to something -- a big IF.

Texas has enjoyed a long history of screwing and repelling its conference mates, many of whom have already fled to greener pastures. The remaining few are looking at options. As things stand now, whoever's paying for the LHN Network is getting screwed.

UT is perhaps the most underperforming program of all time.
02-06-2018 09:39 AM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #80
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-06-2018 01:00 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Not in the case of Louisiana-Lafayette. They're interchangeable with Monroe.

Even if we didn't know about the hyphen, they'd look like Ohio compared to Ohio State.

The potential of the two programs stand in start contrast to one another.
02-06-2018 09:41 AM
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