Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Non-Football Power Conference Membership?
Author Message
BePcr07 Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 808
Joined: Dec 2015
Reputation: 43
I Root For: Boise St & Zags
Location:
Post: #1
Non-Football Power Conference Membership?
The ACC has a scheduling arrangement with Notre Dame in football. None of the other power conferences have non-football full members. What value would a non-football school have to bring for the PAC, SEC, B1G, ACC, or XII to consider membership? Would it have to be the value of Notre Dame or could it be less?

If at any point the Big East begins to struggle (not saying it will), would the SEC, ACC, and B1G (and perhaps XII) consider adding any of them as non-football members? Would the PAC ignore the Catholic affiliation and consider Gonzaga or St. Mary's?
02-05-2018 11:01 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply

Frank the Tank Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 10,798
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation: 483
I Root For: Illinois/DePaul
Location: Chicago
Post: #2
RE: Non-Football Power Conference Membership?
I don't see this as being realistic. Notre Dame is a singularly unique brand name in college sports with extraordinary power. They're also providing some access to what's most valuable (Irish football) with 5 ACC football opponents per year. Conferences will move mountains and consider relationships that they wouldn't with ANYONE else with respect to Notre Dame. Even the freaking Big Ten eventually relented and provided Notre Dame with hockey membership, which they wouldn't have done for anyone else. The only school that could even possibly approach that type of value is if Texas were to ever become an independent and seek a similar deal. Otherwise, non-football schools don't move the needle enough for the P5 leagues and arguably no football school other than Texas would move that needle enough, either.

As a general matter, any conference realignment proposal that begins with either "If Notre Dame joins a conference..." or "This school would get a Notre Dame-type deal..." is pointless. How Notre Dame is treated has virtually no relevance to how the entire rest of college sports is treated - they can do whatever the heck they want and have their cake (independence) and eat it, too (CFP access and money).
(This post was last modified: 02-05-2018 11:26 AM by Frank the Tank.)
02-05-2018 11:25 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
quo vadis Online
Legend
*

Posts: 26,839
Joined: Aug 2008
Reputation: 594
I Root For: USF/Georgetown
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Post: #3
RE: Non-Football Power Conference Membership?
(02-05-2018 11:01 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  The ACC has a scheduling arrangement with Notre Dame in football. None of the other power conferences have non-football full members. What value would a non-football school have to bring for the PAC, SEC, B1G, ACC, or XII to consider membership? Would it have to be the value of Notre Dame or could it be less?

IIRC, power conferences do have such arrangements, in minor sports. E.g., in men's soccer, SDSU is a PAC member.

For the major sports, though, I don't see it happening, because that would involve revenue sharing, and nobody would bring the needed revenue.
02-05-2018 12:11 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Hokie Mark Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 14,569
Joined: Sep 2011
Reputation: 562
I Root For: VT, ACC teams
Location: Charlotte, NC
Post: #4
RE: Non-Football Power Conference Membership?
(02-05-2018 12:11 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-05-2018 11:01 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  The ACC has a scheduling arrangement with Notre Dame in football. None of the other power conferences have non-football full members. What value would a non-football school have to bring for the PAC, SEC, B1G, ACC, or XII to consider membership? Would it have to be the value of Notre Dame or could it be less?

IIRC, power conferences do have such arrangements, in minor sports. E.g., in men's soccer, SDSU is a PAC member.

For the major sports, though, I don't see it happening, because that would involve revenue sharing, and nobody would bring the needed revenue.

Exactly. Johns Hopkins is a member of the Big Ten - but only for lacrosse, IIRC. You can forget about full membership without football, IMO.
02-05-2018 12:37 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Carolina_Low_Country Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,882
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 68
I Root For: Go Pirates
Location: ENC
Post: #5
RE: Non-Football Power Conference Membership?
The only one I could see would be Georgetown with the ACC to par up with Navy if Navy was taken football only.
02-05-2018 02:54 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ken d Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,715
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 343
I Root For: college sports
Location: Raleigh
Post: #6
RE: Non-Football Power Conference Membership?
In the P5 discussion forum I posited a hypothetical scenario in which the 8 southernmost PAC schools broke off and merged with the Big 12 schools. That scenario left the 4 Pacific Northwest schools to rebuild the PAC with four schools from the Mountain West plus BYU for a 9 team conference. In that scenario, I suggested that Gonzaga would be a logical add for sports other than football to allow a 20 team conference round robin in basketball.

But that wouldn't really still be a P5 conference - just the best non-power conference.
02-05-2018 03:07 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply

NBPirate Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 9,425
Joined: May 2011
Reputation: 182
I Root For: OM/ECU/G'town
Location: The Hilltop
Post: #7
RE: Non-Football Power Conference Membership?
I'd like to see Georgetown join the ACC so we could resume our natural rivalries.
02-05-2018 05:09 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
spenser Offline
Water Engineer
*

Posts: 78
Joined: Jan 2016
Reputation: 3
I Root For: Cincinnati
Location:
Post: #8
RE: Non-Football Power Conference Membership?
(02-05-2018 03:07 PM)ken d Wrote:  In the P5 discussion forum I posited a hypothetical scenario in which the 8 southernmost PAC schools broke off and merged with the Big 12 schools. That scenario left the 4 Pacific Northwest schools to rebuild the PAC with four schools from the Mountain West plus BYU for a 9 team conference. In that scenario, I suggested that Gonzaga would be a logical add for sports other than football to allow a 20 team conference round robin in basketball.

But that wouldn't really still be a P5 conference - just the best non-power conference.

Under that scenario you would need to add St.Mary's too as an 11th BB team to play 20 games or 18 with 10 members, you don't play yourself.
02-05-2018 05:52 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
GoldenWarrior11 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,739
Joined: Jul 2015
Reputation: 151
I Root For: Marquette, BE
Location: Chicago
Post: #9
RE: Non-Football Power Conference Membership?
I'd say that the likelihood of any Big East member returning to a conference where they are second fiddle to football powers is remote at best. The ACC, where many of the Big East membership would end up going in this hypothetical, does not need Olympic members, nor does it need more basketball members. They already have 15 teams.

Having said that, I'd rank schools like Georgetown, Villanova, St. Johns, Seton Hall and Providence as much more likely to get into a true power conference membership. For schools like Marquette, DePaul, Xavier, Creighton and Butler, the B1G ain't calling them. The Big 12 would be an intriguing possibility, however.
(This post was last modified: 02-05-2018 05:58 PM by GoldenWarrior11.)
02-05-2018 05:58 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
mikeinsec127 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,367
Joined: Jul 2009
Reputation: 56
I Root For: Rutgers
Location:
Post: #10
RE: Non-Football Power Conference Membership?
The only P5 conference that may take a non-football member is the ACC. Then they would be at 14 for football and 16 for basketball. The only school I could see getting that deal is Texas. That would allow them to keep all of their football on the LHN and maybe turn a deal where the LHN becomes the local carrier of ACC network sports. Otherwise, there is no other scenario that pays enough for a P5 conference to become a hybrid.
02-05-2018 07:11 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Tom in Lazybrook Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 21,140
Joined: Jul 2011
Reputation: 438
I Root For: So Alabama, GWU
Location: Houston
Post: #11
RE: Non-Football Power Conference Membership?
(02-05-2018 05:09 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  I'd like to see Georgetown join the ACC so we could resume our natural rivalries.

LOL, you could do that in the non-conference season if G'town really wanted to do so.
02-05-2018 07:24 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply

quo vadis Online
Legend
*

Posts: 26,839
Joined: Aug 2008
Reputation: 594
I Root For: USF/Georgetown
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Post: #12
RE: Non-Football Power Conference Membership?
(02-05-2018 05:09 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  I'd like to see Georgetown join the ACC so we could resume our natural rivalries.

You're saying Villanova, St John's, Providence and Seton Hall aren't our natural rivals? To me they are.

Sure, do we want Syracuse and UConn back? And Pitt and BC? Absolutely.

But truth is, our rivals are scattered among three conferences right now, and the current Big East has arguably the most of them.
02-05-2018 07:26 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
_C2_ Offline
The King of Overanalysis
*

Posts: 19,138
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 364
I Root For: Houston
Location: Zamunda
Post: #13
RE: Non-Football Power Conference Membership?
(02-05-2018 11:01 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  The ACC has a scheduling arrangement with Notre Dame in football. None of the other power conferences have non-football full members. What value would a non-football school have to bring for the PAC, SEC, B1G, ACC, or XII to consider membership? Would it have to be the value of Notre Dame or could it be less?

If at any point the Big East begins to struggle (not saying it will), would the SEC, ACC, and B1G (and perhaps XII) consider adding any of them as non-football members? Would the PAC ignore the Catholic affiliation and consider Gonzaga or St. Mary's?

The Pac-12 is never going to add a small religious school, not in this day and age.
02-06-2018 01:22 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
_C2_ Offline
The King of Overanalysis
*

Posts: 19,138
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 364
I Root For: Houston
Location: Zamunda
Post: #14
RE: Non-Football Power Conference Membership?
(02-05-2018 11:25 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I don't see this as being realistic. Notre Dame is a singularly unique brand name in college sports with extraordinary power. They're also providing some access to what's most valuable (Irish football) with 5 ACC football opponents per year. Conferences will move mountains and consider relationships that they wouldn't with ANYONE else with respect to Notre Dame. Even the freaking Big Ten eventually relented and provided Notre Dame with hockey membership, which they wouldn't have done for anyone else. The only school that could even possibly approach that type of value is if Texas were to ever become an independent and seek a similar deal. Otherwise, non-football schools don't move the needle enough for the P5 leagues and arguably no football school other than Texas would move that needle enough, either.

As a general matter, any conference realignment proposal that begins with either "If Notre Dame joins a conference..." or "This school would get a Notre Dame-type deal..." is pointless. How Notre Dame is treated has virtually no relevance to how the entire rest of college sports is treated - they can do whatever the heck they want and have their cake (independence) and eat it, too (CFP access and money).

On that last part, except for the service academies, especially Army and Navy. I proposed the AAC making a deal with them in a similar fashion.

Air Force already does this except they're a full member of the MWC.
02-06-2018 01:39 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
_C2_ Offline
The King of Overanalysis
*

Posts: 19,138
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 364
I Root For: Houston
Location: Zamunda
Post: #15
RE: Non-Football Power Conference Membership?
(02-05-2018 03:07 PM)ken d Wrote:  In the P5 discussion forum I posited a hypothetical scenario in which the 8 southernmost PAC schools broke off and merged with the Big 12 schools. That scenario left the 4 Pacific Northwest schools to rebuild the PAC with four schools from the Mountain West plus BYU for a 9 team conference. In that scenario, I suggested that Gonzaga would be a logical add for sports other than football to allow a 20 team conference round robin in basketball.

But that wouldn't really still be a P5 conference - just the best non-power conference.

Gonzaga is not going to any conference. They are an overachieving small time program. That ought to inspire them to join a better conference while they can.
02-06-2018 01:44 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
templefootballfan Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,762
Joined: Jan 2005
Reputation: 62
I Root For: TU & BGSU & TEX
Location: CLAYMONT DE
Post: #16
RE: Non-Football Power Conference Membership?
anything that fills in holes in your profile, protects your future & adds revenue, you have to considered it.
Conn would help BE
B-12 has small footprint, I like the idea of Crieghton, DePaul, Marquete & St Lious
AAC should take Mass under it's wing, strong Mass helps AAC
there are other BB programs that would help AAC
MWC should babysit NMST
02-06-2018 09:00 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply

NBPirate Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 9,425
Joined: May 2011
Reputation: 182
I Root For: OM/ECU/G'town
Location: The Hilltop
Post: #17
RE: Non-Football Power Conference Membership?
(02-05-2018 07:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-05-2018 05:09 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  I'd like to see Georgetown join the ACC so we could resume our natural rivalries.

You're saying Villanova, St John's, Providence and Seton Hall aren't our natural rivals? To me they are.

Sure, do we want Syracuse and UConn back? And Pitt and BC? Absolutely.

But truth is, our rivals are scattered among three conferences right now, and the current Big East has arguably the most of them.

I suppose. I guess we could modify the OOC to include the old mates on a regular basis the way we do Syracuse.
02-06-2018 09:30 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
GoldenWarrior11 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,739
Joined: Jul 2015
Reputation: 151
I Root For: Marquette, BE
Location: Chicago
Post: #18
RE: Non-Football Power Conference Membership?
Slightly off-topic, but it would be cool to get a preseason Old Big East shootout at MSG. You could get four of: Villanova, Georgetown, Seton Hall, Providence, and St. Johns, as well as four of: UConn, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Rutgers and Boston College. Just one game per year, rotating the opponents. West Virginia and Notre Dame could also be tossed in there as additional rotational teams.

In a given year you could have:
Villanova/Syracuse
Georgetown/Pittsburgh
UConn/Providence
Boston College/Seton Hall
02-06-2018 10:14 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
OdinFrigg Offline
Bench Warmer
*

Posts: 164
Joined: Oct 2017
Reputation: 8
I Root For: Dogs, Roosters
Location:
Post: #19
RE: Non-Football Power Conference Membership?
It happens the other way as well. For example, the University of Kentucky and the University of South Carolina have C-USA associate membership for men's soccer. The SEC does not sponsor men's soccer.
02-06-2018 11:37 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Cyniclone Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,275
Joined: Nov 2012
Reputation: 230
I Root For: ODU and VCU
Location:
Post: #20
RE: Non-Football Power Conference Membership?
Here's a hypothetical that almost certainly will never come to fruition but it's the realignment board, why should we be tethered by reality?

What if the NCAA a) allowed basketball-only memberships and/or b) allowed basketball-only conferences? Does that significantly affect the makeup of today's conferences?
(This post was last modified: 02-06-2018 02:07 PM by Cyniclone.)
02-06-2018 01:53 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2018 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2018 MyBB Group.