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Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Bull_Is_Back Offline
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Post: #161
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-12-2018 06:54 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Well I see Im a big hit in here. We got off on the wrong foot fellas, really.

Yea, who would have thought that taking the conservative or libertarian position, and attacking them with the standard lefty talking points (while trying to pretend you're a moderate) would be objected to...
(This post was last modified: 02-12-2018 06:57 PM by Bull_Is_Back.)
02-12-2018 06:57 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #162
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-12-2018 06:51 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  [Image: 24g631.jpg]

What about MUH ROADS?!!!
02-12-2018 07:00 PM
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Bull_Is_Back Offline
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Post: #163
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Image: 24g6sk.jpg]
02-12-2018 07:01 PM
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Bearcats#1 Offline
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Post: #164
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-12-2018 06:57 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  
(02-12-2018 06:54 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Well I see Im a big hit in here. We got off on the wrong foot fellas, really.

Yea, who would have thought that taking the conservative or libertarian position, and attacking them with the standard lefty talking points (while trying to pretend you're a moderate) would be objected to...

Im dont pretend to be anything. Ive clearly stated my stance and views.
02-12-2018 07:02 PM
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Bull_Is_Back Offline
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Post: #165
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-12-2018 07:00 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  
(02-12-2018 06:51 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  [Image: 24g631.jpg]

What about MUH ROADS?!!!

[Image: 24g6xt.jpg]
02-12-2018 07:04 PM
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Bearcats#1 Offline
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Post: #166
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Im fine with big government.
02-12-2018 07:05 PM
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Bull_Is_Back Offline
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Post: #167
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-12-2018 07:05 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Im fine with big government.

I'm shocked... really... totally shocked...
02-12-2018 07:08 PM
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gdunn Offline
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Post: #168
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-12-2018 06:54 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Well I see Im a big hit in here. We got off on the wrong foot fellas, really.

Na. Actually you're pretty easy to have a debate with. Your first reaction is to defend your point not insult. Makes you aces with me. I can't speak for the rest of these heathens. 04-cheers
02-12-2018 07:12 PM
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Bearcats#1 Offline
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Post: #169
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-12-2018 07:08 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  
(02-12-2018 07:05 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Im fine with big government.

I'm shocked... really... totally shocked...

ok and?

Engage me in ‘meaningful dialog’ (i think thats the wording Kaplony used)
02-12-2018 07:12 PM
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Bull_Is_Back Offline
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Post: #170
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-12-2018 07:12 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  
(02-12-2018 07:08 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  
(02-12-2018 07:05 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Im fine with big government.

I'm shocked... really... totally shocked...

ok and?

Engage me in ‘meaningful dialog’ (i think thats the wording Kaplony used)

When you equated not wanting a huge government to not wanting roads and fire departments you lost me... You're either a troll or a soy boy
02-12-2018 07:16 PM
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Bearcats#1 Offline
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Post: #171
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-12-2018 07:16 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  
(02-12-2018 07:12 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  
(02-12-2018 07:08 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  
(02-12-2018 07:05 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Im fine with big government.

I'm shocked... really... totally shocked...

ok and?

Engage me in ‘meaningful dialog’ (i think thats the wording Kaplony used)

When you equated not wanting a huge government to not wanting roads and fire departments you lost me... You're either a troll or a soy boy

I was employing hyperbole....
02-12-2018 07:16 PM
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umbluegray Offline
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Post: #172
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-12-2018 04:45 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  
(02-12-2018 04:44 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  
(02-12-2018 01:56 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  [quote='Old Dominion' pid='15063422' dateline='1518285809']
Seems your the one with the platitudes and talking points.

Address my question please. Are you consistent in your disdain for government interference in our private lives? Or do you only object when you disagree with the situation at hand?

Oh, yes. Bigly.

No one needs to tell me what to eat, what size soda I can drink, what sport my kids can play, where he or she MUST attend a school, what hospital I have to report to, what Doctor I prefer for myself, wife or children, whether I can fish in my pond or in my Mothers lake, where I can walk my dog, who I prefer to assemble and associate with. perhaps a million other things.

You have any objection to being directed on any of that?

If not, great. Welcome aboard.

if so, yea part of the problem. 07-coffee3

Agree

I mean ‘the man’ has no need to tell me anything, brother! If I want to kill or rape somebody, who is the government to tell me I can’t do it! It’s my right as a human being to do whatever I want to do, In fact Jesus telled me this hisself.

Believe it or not, our Constitution is based on Biblical premises.

Don't lie.
Don't steal.
Don't kill.

Nowhere does it say "don't drink a big coke" or "buy health insurance".
02-12-2018 07:43 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #173
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-12-2018 07:05 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Im fine with big government.

Don't feel bad...You are not alone. Both gangs are fine with big government. That is why Im not a gang member.07-coffee3
02-12-2018 07:50 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #174
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-12-2018 07:16 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  
(02-12-2018 07:16 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  
(02-12-2018 07:12 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  
(02-12-2018 07:08 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  
(02-12-2018 07:05 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Im fine with big government.

I'm shocked... really... totally shocked...

ok and?

Engage me in ‘meaningful dialog’ (i think thats the wording Kaplony used)

When you equated not wanting a huge government to not wanting roads and fire departments you lost me... You're either a troll or a soy boy

I was employing hyperbole....

Again?07-coffee3
02-12-2018 07:51 PM
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Old Dominion Offline
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Post: #175
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-12-2018 05:30 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  
(02-12-2018 04:41 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  
(02-12-2018 01:56 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  
(02-10-2018 01:03 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  Seems your the one with the platitudes and talking points.

Address my question please. Are you consistent in your disdain for government interference in our private lives? Or do you only object when you disagree with the situation at hand?

Oh, yes. Bigly.

No one needs to tell me what to eat, what size soda I can drink, what sport my kids can play, where he or she MUST attend a school, what hospital I have to report to, what Doctor I prefer for myself, wife or children, whether I can fish in my pond or in my Mothers lake, where I can walk my dog, who I prefer to assemble and associate with. perhaps a million other things.

You have any objection to being directed on any of that?

If not, great. Welcome aboard.

if so, yea part of the problem. 07-coffee3

Pretty serious overstatement wouldn't you say? When people use this type of wild hyperbole it tells me they are very emotional.
If you are principled, then you should have no problem with abortion rights, correct?

More juvenile platitudes. Which part of the bolded above is "emotional", or hyperbole? You don't think those things happen, everyday all across this Country?


Specifically, which of the above do you claim as "overstatement"? How many properties or encounters with Federal Do-Gooders have you ever experienced?
What Federal program or Agency was Sooooo wildly successful that it was eventually ended and/or disbanded entirely? Just one?

I don't personally know of any of these situations. Especially not "perhaps millions of other things" HA HA Stop whining and enjoy life. You are not a victim. Stop acting like one.

You still haven't mentioned how you would feel about the government regulating a woman's body?
02-12-2018 08:04 PM
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Love and Honor Offline
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Post: #176
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-12-2018 06:29 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(02-11-2018 10:22 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  The core problem with our budget goes beyond our politicians, it's our people. We're so accustomed to the federal government being a part of our lives that a large proportion of our populace don't give a crap if they're heavily involved as long as they feel good; even the people who identify as 'fiscally conservative' in surveys mostly end up flipping when you ask them if they want to cut SS, Medicare, the military, etc. Politicians are SOBs, but unfortunately we've made it impossible for them to survive in DC if they ever laid a finger on any entitlement; only when we're willing to make cuts will they actually happen, and that won't occur until we're in dire straights and we're forced to.

A lot of this is because we haven't rethought our conceptual approach, just added more and more focused programs to address this problem or that problem, and the the debate centers on whether to spend more or less on each one.

I'm talking about a totally different conceptual approach. We put a safety net out there for everybody and that's it. We don't go trying to micromanage every individual situation, and we don't need the army of bureaucrats to administer them. You get $X from the government. If you need more than $X to live, you get a job. If you're happy living on $X, you don't. And $X is enough to keep you alive at a subsistence level, but you're still poor until you get that job. And when you get that job, or a promotion or a raise, that $X doesn't go away. So there's no "poverty trap" disincentive for you to get the job, or promotion, or raise.

Winners under this approach: Poor people who don't want to stay poor, and taxpayers who have been paying the cost of the over bloated bureaucracies.
Losers: Poor people who have manipulated the system, and the bureaucrats who have enabled them.

I don't disagree by any means, but I have a lot less faith in the American electorate than you do. Some politicians could make a 'war on bureaucracy' theme work, like Reagan; nowadays I don't think anyone could, especially when we're so polarized that half the aisle in DC and in the public is willing to make a 180 on their 'principles' as long as it benefits their side.
02-12-2018 09:59 PM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #177
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-12-2018 09:59 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  
(02-12-2018 06:29 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(02-11-2018 10:22 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  The core problem with our budget goes beyond our politicians, it's our people. We're so accustomed to the federal government being a part of our lives that a large proportion of our populace don't give a crap if they're heavily involved as long as they feel good; even the people who identify as 'fiscally conservative' in surveys mostly end up flipping when you ask them if they want to cut SS, Medicare, the military, etc. Politicians are SOBs, but unfortunately we've made it impossible for them to survive in DC if they ever laid a finger on any entitlement; only when we're willing to make cuts will they actually happen, and that won't occur until we're in dire straights and we're forced to.

A lot of this is because we haven't rethought our conceptual approach, just added more and more focused programs to address this problem or that problem, and the the debate centers on whether to spend more or less on each one.

I'm talking about a totally different conceptual approach. We put a safety net out there for everybody and that's it. We don't go trying to micromanage every individual situation, and we don't need the army of bureaucrats to administer them. You get $X from the government. If you need more than $X to live, you get a job. If you're happy living on $X, you don't. And $X is enough to keep you alive at a subsistence level, but you're still poor until you get that job. And when you get that job, or a promotion or a raise, that $X doesn't go away. So there's no "poverty trap" disincentive for you to get the job, or promotion, or raise.

Winners under this approach: Poor people who don't want to stay poor, and taxpayers who have been paying the cost of the over bloated bureaucracies.
Losers: Poor people who have manipulated the system, and the bureaucrats who have enabled them.

I don't disagree by any means, but I have a lot less faith in the American electorate than you do. Some politicians could make a 'war on bureaucracy' theme work, like Reagan; nowadays I don't think anyone could, especially when we're so polarized that half the aisle in DC and in the public is willing to make a 180 on their 'principles' as long as it benefits their side.

in earnest, I think we're all in the same boat at this point.....most don't understand the real fight.....they simply 'pisser sur l'histoire du jour'

#henceDJT

#henceeletoralcollege

#fknmorons
02-12-2018 10:11 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #178
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-12-2018 09:59 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  
(02-12-2018 06:29 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(02-11-2018 10:22 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  The core problem with our budget goes beyond our politicians, it's our people. We're so accustomed to the federal government being a part of our lives that a large proportion of our populace don't give a crap if they're heavily involved as long as they feel good; even the people who identify as 'fiscally conservative' in surveys mostly end up flipping when you ask them if they want to cut SS, Medicare, the military, etc. Politicians are SOBs, but unfortunately we've made it impossible for them to survive in DC if they ever laid a finger on any entitlement; only when we're willing to make cuts will they actually happen, and that won't occur until we're in dire straights and we're forced to.

A lot of this is because we haven't rethought our conceptual approach, just added more and more focused programs to address this problem or that problem, and the the debate centers on whether to spend more or less on each one.

I'm talking about a totally different conceptual approach. We put a safety net out there for everybody and that's it. We don't go trying to micromanage every individual situation, and we don't need the army of bureaucrats to administer them. You get $X from the government. If you need more than $X to live, you get a job. If you're happy living on $X, you don't. And $X is enough to keep you alive at a subsistence level, but you're still poor until you get that job. And when you get that job, or a promotion or a raise, that $X doesn't go away. So there's no "poverty trap" disincentive for you to get the job, or promotion, or raise.

Winners under this approach: Poor people who don't want to stay poor, and taxpayers who have been paying the cost of the over bloated bureaucracies.
Losers: Poor people who have manipulated the system, and the bureaucrats who have enabled them.

I don't disagree by any means, but I have a lot less faith in the American electorate than you do. Some politicians could make a 'war on bureaucracy' theme work, like Reagan; nowadays I don't think anyone could, especially when we're so polarized that half the aisle in DC and in the public is willing to make a 180 on their 'principles' as long as it benefits their side.

While I sort of agree I don't think it's as bad as you make it out to be.

I believe that if there were a party that truly wanted to reform the government to make it more efficient it would be extremely popular nationally.

If there were a party that:

1. Instituted a zero based budget instead of starting off with what you spent last year.

2. Forced the agencies to justify the budgeted expense by showing either the Constitutional mandate or the federal law requiring it

3. Eliminated duplication of services. Do we really need a Forest Service and BLM or could we eliminate a ton of waste by combining the two? Does nearly every single federal agency need it's own police department, most of which are primarily just there for security reasons, or could we consolidate them all into a branch of DOJ or DHS and eliminate a ton of overhead? Would we come out cheaper if we just contracted with the state and local law enforcement agencies in the areas where we have these facilities?

I'd probably break a leg trying to hurry to the polls to vote for their candidates.
02-12-2018 10:35 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #179
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-12-2018 09:59 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  
(02-12-2018 06:29 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(02-11-2018 10:22 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  The core problem with our budget goes beyond our politicians, it's our people. We're so accustomed to the federal government being a part of our lives that a large proportion of our populace don't give a crap if they're heavily involved as long as they feel good; even the people who identify as 'fiscally conservative' in surveys mostly end up flipping when you ask them if they want to cut SS, Medicare, the military, etc. Politicians are SOBs, but unfortunately we've made it impossible for them to survive in DC if they ever laid a finger on any entitlement; only when we're willing to make cuts will they actually happen, and that won't occur until we're in dire straights and we're forced to.
A lot of this is because we haven't rethought our conceptual approach, just added more and more focused programs to address this problem or that problem, and the the debate centers on whether to spend more or less on each one.
I'm talking about a totally different conceptual approach. We put a safety net out there for everybody and that's it. We don't go trying to micromanage every individual situation, and we don't need the army of bureaucrats to administer them. You get $X from the government. If you need more than $X to live, you get a job. If you're happy living on $X, you don't. And $X is enough to keep you alive at a subsistence level, but you're still poor until you get that job. And when you get that job, or a promotion or a raise, that $X doesn't go away. So there's no "poverty trap" disincentive for you not to get the job, or promotion, or raise.
Winners under this approach: Poor people who don't want to stay poor, and taxpayers who have been paying the cost of the over bloated bureaucracies.
Losers: Poor people who have manipulated the system, and the bureaucrats who have enabled them.
I don't disagree by any means, but I have a lot less faith in the American electorate than you do. Some politicians could make a 'war on bureaucracy' theme work, like Reagan; nowadays I don't think anyone could, especially when we're so polarized that half the aisle in DC and in the public is willing to make a 180 on their 'principles' as long as it benefits their side.

I think the American electorate will do just fine if a logical plan is presented to them in good order. Ross Perot laid out a plan and presented it with PowerPoints, and with no organization to start with he got a pretty impressive share of the vote. Newt's Contract laid out a plan and led to the most successful election for republicans ever. Those are a couple of examples that are recent enough to give me optimism.

What I think is missing is the logical plan from either side. Right now republicans have no platform except cut taxes, put up trade and immigration barriers, and make us into a theocracy. Democrats are left with Trump is racist/misogynist/unstable/whatever and let's be socialist like Venezuela. Neither of those--other than the tax cuts--holds any appeal for me at all. Either party that could stop appealing solely to the 20-25% that is their hardcore base, and appeal instead to the 50-60% in the middle, would win big.
(This post was last modified: 02-12-2018 10:59 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
02-12-2018 10:57 PM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #180
RE: Budget blow out deal done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(02-12-2018 10:57 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(02-12-2018 09:59 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  
(02-12-2018 06:29 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(02-11-2018 10:22 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  The core problem with our budget goes beyond our politicians, it's our people. We're so accustomed to the federal government being a part of our lives that a large proportion of our populace don't give a crap if they're heavily involved as long as they feel good; even the people who identify as 'fiscally conservative' in surveys mostly end up flipping when you ask them if they want to cut SS, Medicare, the military, etc. Politicians are SOBs, but unfortunately we've made it impossible for them to survive in DC if they ever laid a finger on any entitlement; only when we're willing to make cuts will they actually happen, and that won't occur until we're in dire straights and we're forced to.
A lot of this is because we haven't rethought our conceptual approach, just added more and more focused programs to address this problem or that problem, and the the debate centers on whether to spend more or less on each one.
I'm talking about a totally different conceptual approach. We put a safety net out there for everybody and that's it. We don't go trying to micromanage every individual situation, and we don't need the army of bureaucrats to administer them. You get $X from the government. If you need more than $X to live, you get a job. If you're happy living on $X, you don't. And $X is enough to keep you alive at a subsistence level, but you're still poor until you get that job. And when you get that job, or a promotion or a raise, that $X doesn't go away. So there's no "poverty trap" disincentive for you not to get the job, or promotion, or raise.
Winners under this approach: Poor people who don't want to stay poor, and taxpayers who have been paying the cost of the over bloated bureaucracies.
Losers: Poor people who have manipulated the system, and the bureaucrats who have enabled them.
I don't disagree by any means, but I have a lot less faith in the American electorate than you do. Some politicians could make a 'war on bureaucracy' theme work, like Reagan; nowadays I don't think anyone could, especially when we're so polarized that half the aisle in DC and in the public is willing to make a 180 on their 'principles' as long as it benefits their side.

I think the American electorate will do just fine if a logical plan is presented to them in good order. Ross Perot laid out a plan and presented it with PowerPoints, and with no organization to start with he got a pretty impressive share of the vote. Newt's Contract laid out a plan and led to the most successful election for republicans ever. Those are a couple of examples that are recent enough to give me optimism.

What I think is missing is the logical plan from either side. Right now republicans have no platform except cut taxes, put up trade and immigration barriers, and make us into a theocracy. Democrats are left with Trump is racist/misogynist/unstable/whatever and let's be socialist like Venezuela. Neither of those--other than the tax cuts--holds any appeal for me at all. Either party that could stop appealing solely to the 20-25% that is their hardcore base, and appeal instead to the 50-60% in the middle, would win big.

if I thought RP had a chance, I'd have voted for him.....I simply chose to bow out as the 'sip was always going ®......(I) doesn't STAND A CHANCE IN HADES in the "general"....that's simply the cold hard truth of the math....once again, it's why DJT ran ®

both you and Kap provided a simple summary why we're in this position today.....

it's still early in this version of the 'experiment'.......I see nothing other than #exposingthewrong at this point....

w/o implementing term limits that would drive 'best method', I don't have a solution.......

nuts zongo is always 'all ears'....
(This post was last modified: 02-12-2018 11:30 PM by stinkfist.)
02-12-2018 11:28 PM
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