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ND to vacate 21 wins in football
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Post: #1
ND to vacate 21 wins in football
ND lost their appeal & now must vacate 21 wins, 12 games from their runner up year in 2012 & 9 wins from the 2013 season for academic fraud. Doesn't this contradict their NC ruling? ND seems to be the latest to find out that it isn't wise to cooperate with the NCAA & that NCAA will make up the rules to fit their agenda.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.si.com/co...violations

The NCAA initially ordered the wins vacated in 2016 but the school filed an appeal, which was denied Tuesday. (Other sanctions included a year of probation, a $5,000 fine and a show-cause order against the trainer accused of facilitating the academic fraud.)

***

“There is no precedent in previous NCAA cases for the decision to add a discretionary penalty of vacation of team records in a case of student-to-student cheating involving a part-time student worker who had no role in academic advising. In every other case in the record—meticulously detailed in the University’s arguments—the institutional representative of the university was employed as an administrator, coach, or person who served in an academic role. The Committee simply failed to provide any rationale why it viewed the student-worker as an institutional representative in our case. This is more disturbing given that, in 2016, the member institutions of the NCAA amended the academic misconduct rules to make clear that students who serve in roles identical to that of the student in our case would not be considered institutional representatives. If the Committee members chose to depart both from precedent and the position adopted by the NCAA membership, it was incumbent on them to offer an explanation. They did not.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication...s.amp.html




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(This post was last modified: 02-13-2018 04:14 PM by Lenvillecards.)
02-13-2018 03:54 PM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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RE: ND to vacate 21 wins in football
(02-13-2018 03:54 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  ND lost their appeal & now must vacate 21 wins, 12 games from their runner up year in 2012 & 9 wins from the 2013 season for academic fraud. Doesn't this contradict their NC ruling? ND seems to be the latest to find out that it isn't wise to cooperate with the NCAA & that NCAA will make up the rules to fit their agenda.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.si.com/co...violations

The NCAA initially ordered the wins vacated in 2016 but the school filed an appeal, which was denied Tuesday. (Other sanctions included a year of probation, a $5,000 fine and a show-cause order against the trainer accused of facilitating the academic fraud.)

***

“There is no precedent in previous NCAA cases for the decision to add a discretionary penalty of vacation of team records in a case of student-to-student cheating involving a part-time student worker who had no role in academic advising. In every other case in the record—meticulously detailed in the University’s arguments—the institutional representative of the university was employed as an administrator, coach, or person who served in an academic role. The Committee simply failed to provide any rationale why it viewed the student-worker as an institutional representative in our case. This is more disturbing given that, in 2016, the member institutions of the NCAA amended the academic misconduct rules to make clear that students who serve in roles identical to that of the student in our case would not be considered institutional representatives. If the Committee members chose to depart both from precedent and the position adopted by the NCAA membership, it was incumbent on them to offer an explanation. They did not.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication...s.amp.html




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02-13-2018 04:36 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #3
RE: ND to vacate 21 wins in football


Ouch!
02-13-2018 09:47 PM
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HRFlossY Online
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RE: ND to vacate 21 wins in football
AHHH You have to love the uneven penalties the NCAA doles out..03-no03-old03-yes
02-14-2018 02:11 PM
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BigOwensboroCard Offline
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RE: ND to vacate 21 wins in football
You wonder when the schools will finally say enough is enough and cast a vote of no confidence towards the NCAA and start a new regime?
02-14-2018 09:44 PM
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TerryD Offline
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RE: ND to vacate 21 wins in football
ND self reported and cooperated with the NCAA.

It immediately suspended the players, too.

Notre Dame allowed some of those 'frozen five' players return to the university as students.

It also lowered their grades in subjects that were affected by this scandal. That made those players retroactively ineligible and thus why Notre Dame is being told to vacate 21 wins.

No good deed......
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2018 08:20 AM by TerryD.)
02-15-2018 08:13 AM
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Hokie Mark Online
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RE: ND to vacate 21 wins in football
(02-15-2018 08:13 AM)TerryD Wrote:  ND self reported and cooperated with the NCAA.

It immediately suspended the players, too.

Notre Dame allowed some of those 'frozen five' players return to the university as students.

It also lowered their grades in subjects that were affected by this scandal. That made those players retroactively ineligible and thus why Notre Dame is being told to vacate 21 wins.

No good deed......

Of course there's a need for a governing body for college athletics, but the NCAA has become counter-motivational in nearly every high-profile case.

Failing to punish the cheaters is bad enough, but to also punish the cooperative who try to correct their own mistakes...totally unacceptable!
02-15-2018 08:36 AM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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ND to vacate 21 wins in football
(02-15-2018 08:36 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(02-15-2018 08:13 AM)TerryD Wrote:  ND self reported and cooperated with the NCAA.

It immediately suspended the players, too.

Notre Dame allowed some of those 'frozen five' players return to the university as students.

It also lowered their grades in subjects that were affected by this scandal. That made those players retroactively ineligible and thus why Notre Dame is being told to vacate 21 wins.

No good deed......

Of course there's a need for a governing body for college athletics, but the NCAA has become counter-motivational in nearly every high-profile case.

Failing to punish the cheaters is bad enough, but to also punish the cooperative who try to correct their own mistakes...totally unacceptable!


Correct. If you self report & turn over evidence against yourself the NCAA will punish you beyond what their own rules allow, especially if you sanction yourself first. They're only consistent at screwing things up & hoarding the schools money.


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02-15-2018 09:33 AM
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Kaplony Offline
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RE: ND to vacate 21 wins in football
(02-14-2018 09:44 PM)BigOwensboroCard Wrote:  You wonder when the schools will finally say enough is enough and cast a vote of no confidence towards the NCAA and start a new regime?

Why would schools cast a "vote of no confidence" on themselves? The schools themselves ARE the NCAA, it's not some government regulatory agency. The NCAA exists and takes action solely because the schools allow it to do so.
02-15-2018 09:37 AM
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nole Offline
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RE: ND to vacate 21 wins in football
Total BS.

The NCAA is BEYOND corrupt. Random thoughts:

*Vacating wins is idiotic and there is no way to appropriately execute this.

*SEC is pay players like nobodies business........SILENCE from NCAA (Ole Miss is only example where they pretended to address and it took a player admitting it on national TV.....forcing NCAA hand).

*NCAA has set the precedent that those that police them self will be punished severely (see ND and FSU). Those who hide evidence and fight against NCAA will be rewarded. This is just proof the NCAA is beyond corrupt and even more stupid.

*There is no rhyme or reason to justice with the NCAA. Seems the only thing I can maybe make out is $$$$ is all that matters to them.
02-15-2018 10:17 AM
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TerryD Offline
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RE: ND to vacate 21 wins in football
(02-15-2018 10:17 AM)nole Wrote:  Total BS.

The NCAA is BEYOND corrupt. Random thoughts:

*Vacating wins is idiotic and there is no way to appropriately execute this.

*SEC is pay players like nobodies business........SILENCE from NCAA (Ole Miss is only example where they pretended to address and it took a player admitting it on national TV.....forcing NCAA hand).

*NCAA has set the precedent that those that police them self will be punished severely (see ND and FSU). Those who hide evidence and fight against NCAA will be rewarded. This is just proof the NCAA is beyond corrupt and even more stupid.

*There is no rhyme or reason to justice with the NCAA. Seems the only thing I can maybe make out is $$$$ is all that matters to them.

I am watching the Shea Patterson/Michigan situation with some interest.

Patterson is one of the guys who was allegedly paid (and had his brother hired) to go to Ole Miss.

He has transferred to Michigan, but is petitioning the NCAA to waive the one year transfer sit out rule in his case...because...the Ole Miss coaches "lied" to him about sanctions!

I am pretty sure that the NCAA will grant his request, just in time to start for Michigan in the 2018 opener against Notre Dame.
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2018 12:32 PM by TerryD.)
02-15-2018 12:32 PM
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Pervis_Griffith Offline
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RE: ND to vacate 21 wins in football
The NCAA is giving schools ZERO incentive to cooperate with them on any of these things.

Notre Dame - self reported, and corrected - NCAA not only holds them accountable, they ADD on to the penalties with newly passed regs that came after ND's transgressions. This makes ZERO sense.

Louisville - self reported, and self imposed severe sanctions - NCAA adds onto them, based on some unwritten "morality" clause.

UNC - admits to issues - but fights with cunning - escapes without any penalty.


So ... your school is staring down the barrel of NCAA violations. Whose model do you follow? Notre Dame's, Louisville's, or UNC's??

The answer is obvious.

And it will NOT be to the NCAA's advantage.
02-15-2018 05:35 PM
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cuseroc Offline
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RE: ND to vacate 21 wins in football
(02-15-2018 05:35 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  The NCAA is giving schools ZERO incentive to cooperate with them on any of these things.

Notre Dame - self reported, and corrected - NCAA not only holds them accountable, they ADD on to the penalties with newly passed regs that came after ND's transgressions. This makes ZERO sense.

Louisville - self reported, and self imposed severe sanctions - NCAA adds onto them, based on some unwritten "morality" clause.

UNC - admits to issues - but fights with cunning - escapes without any penalty.


So ... your school is staring down the barrel of NCAA violations. Whose model do you follow? Notre Dame's, Louisville's, or UNC's??

The answer is obvious.

And it will NOT be to the NCAA's advantage.

SU self reported also and had self imposed sanctions but they still had to give up scholarships which hurt us much more than we thought they would and the NCAA took 104 wins away as well. I think SU eventually get those wins back.
02-15-2018 05:47 PM
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nole Offline
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RE: ND to vacate 21 wins in football
FSU self reported for an online music class quiz and lost 20 or so football games, a national title in track (NO POINTS came from the 1 athlete associated with it), and much more.

I heard it was ONE person at the NCAA who came up with this 'vacate' penalty. Not a committee, nothing. just one moron who decide this was the penalty.


That plus the "let's tear our self reporters a new one and reward those who try to cover up their corruption".....makes you really wonder what the goal of the NCAA is.
(This post was last modified: 02-16-2018 03:38 PM by nole.)
02-16-2018 09:17 AM
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HRFlossY Online
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RE: ND to vacate 21 wins in football
(02-16-2018 09:17 AM)nole Wrote:  "let's tear are self reporters a new one and reward those who try to cover up their corruption"

...........so true!!!03-weeping03-lmfao03-weeping
(This post was last modified: 02-16-2018 02:34 PM by HRFlossY.)
02-16-2018 02:33 PM
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dawgitall Offline
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RE: ND to vacate 21 wins in football
I'm not advocating this but.........when I was in about the 3 or 4 grade my older brother took me aside and offered some brotherly advise. He told me that if I ever got in trouble to deny, deny, deny. He said even if they caught me red handed doing something to just look them in the eye and say, "I didn't do it" and don't try to make up a story or change what I said. Just say, "I didn't do it." Just an observation.
02-18-2018 04:28 PM
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cuseroc Offline
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RE: ND to vacate 21 wins in football
(02-18-2018 04:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  I'm not advocating this but.........when I was in about the 3 or 4 grade my older brother took me aside and offered some brotherly advise. He told me that if I ever got in trouble to deny, deny, deny. He said even if they caught me red handed doing something to just look them in the eye and say, "I didn't do it" and don't try to make up a story or change what I said. Just say, "I didn't do it." Just an observation.

Did your brother get into politics?
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02-18-2018 07:18 PM
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dawgitall Offline
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RE: ND to vacate 21 wins in football
(02-18-2018 07:18 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(02-18-2018 04:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  I'm not advocating this but.........when I was in about the 3 or 4 grade my older brother took me aside and offered some brotherly advise. He told me that if I ever got in trouble to deny, deny, deny. He said even if they caught me red handed doing something to just look them in the eye and say, "I didn't do it" and don't try to make up a story or change what I said. Just say, "I didn't do it." Just an observation.

Did your brother get into politics?
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02-18-2018 07:32 PM
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HRFlossY Online
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RE: ND to vacate 21 wins in football
(02-18-2018 07:32 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  
(02-18-2018 07:18 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(02-18-2018 04:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  I'm not advocating this but.........when I was in about the 3 or 4 grade my older brother took me aside and offered some brotherly advise. He told me that if I ever got in trouble to deny, deny, deny. He said even if they caught me red handed doing something to just look them in the eye and say, "I didn't do it" and don't try to make up a story or change what I said. Just say, "I didn't do it." Just an observation.

Did your brother get into politics?
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...........so yes.Rimshot *zing
02-19-2018 12:13 PM
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