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The Atheist Movie
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Lord Stanley Offline
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Post: #61
RE: The Atheist Movie
(02-19-2018 05:03 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  What about all the stuff in the Old Testament? That is one vicious, angry god. Worse than anything I could ever do.

Also reported to be a Toledo fan. 07-coffee3
02-19-2018 05:16 PM
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miko33 Offline
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Post: #62
RE: The Atheist Movie
(02-19-2018 04:55 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 04:41 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 04:33 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 04:04 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 03:49 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  Because time had a beginning. If time had a beginning then prior to that beginning time did not exist.

Anything that existed prior to the beginning of time is beyond/outside of time, i.e. timeless.

Is this in relation to the big bang? This may very well be just a marker and that time is actually a constant of the universe. The universe may in fact be a void and we are living inside a giant bubble. As of today, we have no idea. You can't say that time did not exist prior to the big bang because we have no idea what was happening prior to big bang. There could have been matter prior to the big bang. The big bang may have been made from the matter of an earlier universe that collapsed upon itself like a "big crunch".

I have no idea what was around before the big bang. To my knowledge, no one else does either.

Sure, there could've been matter prior to the big bang, but that view is not accepted by mainstream science.

As mentioned in the video below, cosmologists Arvind Borde, Alan Guth and Alexander Vilenkin proved "any universe which has, on average, been expanding throughout its history cannot be eternal in the past, but must have an absolute beginning."

Vilenkin stated that scientists "can no longer hide behind a past-eternal universe. There is no escape, they have to face the problem of a cosmic beginning."





We are thoroughly in the weeds in relation to the Ray Comfort movie - though granted I'm still around the 20:00 min mark where Ray is conducting more "man on the street" interviews about which came first the chicken or the egg...

But back to your points, I'm sure we are in 100% agreement that the universe we know - or possibly more accurately the current space/matter bubble we live in today - has an origin and follows scientific rules that we know and probably have yet to discover. My point in all of this is that we don't know anything about what it was like before the big bang. The only thing we can actually know about is what we can observe in the volume of matter and space created by the big bang.

Do any of us know anything? Well, I know my car payment is due the 1st of the month and that 2+2 = 4, but regarding what we're discussing, no.

But logic does indeed exist. Without it we can't discover anything.

Logic does tell us that those things which begin to exist had a beginning.

We also know that abstract concepts are a part of reality even though they are not material.

Dr. Peter Atkins stated that science is omnipotent and can account for everything. Dr. William Lane Craig challenged that statement.

Science presupposes logic and relies on it. Logic does not only apply to science. Logic gives us insight to some things which aren't accessible by the scientific method. That does not mean they are incorrect.




Yes, logic exists. You can use logic and reason to rationalize, justify and speculate as well as utilize the more formal rules of logic to complement the scientific method. As I'm sure you are already aware, neither of us can prove nor disprove the existence of a higher power creating the universe. Both of us can use logic to put a reasonable case together on a position.

This is actually one of the final straws that I have that pushed me into the "unknown" camp. I still am a catholic and still go to church, but I'm really not sure if much of it is real anymore. Because at the end of the day, the only real way you can reason the existence of God is to make him an unknown prime mover. Because using logic/reason to conclude that there was a prime mover who created the universe is one thing. Equating him to the God of the bible is a completely different endeavor altogether. It's this latter part where I saw the disconnect.
02-19-2018 05:30 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #63
RE: The Atheist Movie
(02-19-2018 05:16 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 05:03 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  What about all the stuff in the Old Testament? That is one vicious, angry god. Worse than anything I could ever do.


Actually it the most loving God anyone could ever imagine.

He loves man so much that he put man as the CENTER OF ALL CREATION. He made the entire universe as a backdrop for the earths sky.

He loved us so much, he even humbled HIMSELF to the point of being born into the flesh as a poor man, born in one of the smallest nations and towns in the world. Knowing he would be tortured and put to death in one of the cruellest ways possible, even though He was 100% innocent of all charges.

All just to justify mans sin before Him, to offer salvation, redemption and eternal life for all those who WILLINGLY choose Him over Satan and the world.

FREE WILL. That is true love. That is true compassion.

He not only offers salvation, redemption and eternal life, He offers to make us higher than even the Angles, to crown us with glory and honour, far more glorious than when He first made us. He is telling us literally, "Choose ME, and I will place you higher than all I make forever, even the Angels. You will literally become the sons of God"

If god is omniscient and knows everything then he knows what we are going to do, right? And if so, we can't possibly have free will because our decisions have already been made.
02-19-2018 05:31 PM
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ericsrevenge76 Online
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Post: #64
RE: The Atheist Movie
(02-19-2018 05:31 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  If god is omniscient and knows everything then he knows what we are going to do, right? And if so, we can't possibly have free will because our decisions have already been made.


Sorry, but that logic doesn't pass the smell test.

If you are making a free choice of your own free will, then its your own choice and your own free will.

I know a lot of choices people would make beforehand if given to them, that does not mean they did not make a choice of their own free will.

You are wasting your time trying to reason away God. It will never work. All you can do is deceive yourself.
(This post was last modified: 02-21-2018 12:14 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
02-19-2018 05:33 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #65
RE: The Atheist Movie
(02-19-2018 05:33 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 05:31 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 05:16 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 05:03 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  What about all the stuff in the Old Testament? That is one vicious, angry god. Worse than anything I could ever do.


Actually it the most loving God anyone could ever imagine.

He loves man so much that he put man as the CENTER OF ALL CREATION. He made the entire universe as a backdrop for the earths sky.

He loved us so much, he even humbled HIMSELF to the point of being born into the flesh as a poor man, born in one of the smallest nations and towns in the world. Knowing he would be tortured and put to death in one of the cruellest ways possible, even though He was 100% innocent of all charges.

All just to justify mans sin before Him, to offer salvation, redemption and eternal life for all those who WILLINGLY choose Him over Satan and the world.

FREE WILL. That is true love. That is true compassion.

He not only offers salvation, redemption and eternal life, He offers to make us higher than even the Angles, to crown us with glory and honour, far more glorious than when He first made us. He is telling us literally, "Choose ME, and I will place you higher than all I make forever, even the Angels. You will literally become the sons of God"

If god is omniscient and knows everything then he knows what we are going to do, right? And if so, we can't possibly have free will because our decisions have already been made.


Sorry, but that logic doesn't pass the smell test.

If you are making a free choice of your own free will, then its your own choice and your own free will.

I know a lot of choices people would make beforehand if given to them, that does not mean they did not make a choice of their own free will.

You are wasting your time trying to reason away God. It will never work. All you can do is deceive yourself.

You think you know what they would do, but you're guessing.

I spent a fair percentage of my life deceiving myself all right. Then I realized all the logical inconsistencies and stuff that doesn't make sense, and stopped believing in an invisible thing in the sky.
02-19-2018 05:39 PM
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Post: #66
RE: The Atheist Movie
(02-19-2018 12:23 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 12:10 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Sometimes I pity Steven Hawkins because he is suffering through his illness here on earth, a hell on earth really and yet because he favors being an atheist when he dies there will be another hell waiting for him.

This god guy sounds like a dick - "here Hawkins have some debilitating disease making your life a hell on earth, then off to another hell because your didn't thank me enough for your pain and suffering."


Sorry no dice. I hope my body fertilizes a big field of beautiful flowers. Flowers that science understands evolved over the millennium from nothing.

Your body will be the only thing remaining of your old self. Your soul is what gets to meet Jesus. Everyone will meet Jesus, whether he lets you into the pearly gates or to eternal damnation is a choice YOU make. No one twists your arm to belief but I'll tell you one thing you'll be the one paying the price. No biggie to me, I'm only trying to help as one would try to help a drowning man. If you think you're wiser than God good luck to you. 03-wink
02-19-2018 05:45 PM
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ericsrevenge76 Online
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Post: #67
RE: The Atheist Movie
(02-19-2018 05:39 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  You think you know what they would do, but you're guessing.

I spent a fair percentage of my life deceiving myself all right. Then I realized all the logical inconsistencies and stuff that doesn't make sense, and stopped believing in an invisible thing in the sky.


You never even examined the evidence to begin with.

If you had, we would not be having this conversation.

Open your bible and read it for yourself. Look closely at the OT prophets. They predicted every detail of Christ birth, life, ministry, betrayal, crucifixion and Resurrection centuries before He was ever born. They predicted the fall of Israel and Jerusalem within a generation of Christ, and the Jewish diaspora into all nations for almost 2000 years, and their latter day return to the Holy Land (1948 AD) STILL rejecting Christ but flourishing as a nation while surrounded by enemies. Nearly 1/3rd of the Bible is future prophecy for the sole reason of proving to the believer that God is real and the bible is His eternal Word.

Only God can tell the entire future of nations and predict Christianity centuries before it even began. You've never bothered to open the book and examine these things for yourself. So lets not pretend you made an honest effort to examine the facts and evidence here. You have not.
(This post was last modified: 02-19-2018 05:48 PM by ericsrevenge76.)
02-19-2018 05:46 PM
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Post: #68
RE: The Atheist Movie
Here's a story that changed a friend of mine from being a Atheist and it changed all of us that was there...

Six years ago my brother was waiting for a new liver and he took a turn for the worse so we rushed him to the hospital. Now something happens that changed everyone of us that was in the room at this time. My brother closed his eye and in every way was out of it, not talking dead. He was out of it and then he started reaching and talking and screaming. At first we had no clue what he was saying and then he was clear and talking to our mother who died a few years earlier.

It was very clear that he was asking to go with her and she was saying no and this went on for a few minutes and then his best friends wife (died 2 years earlier) was telling him he had to stay. He again started screaming and grabbing and pushing with his hand out into the open air. The nurses rushed in and tried to control him and he was still out. He started fighting and screaming he was ready to go. Begging for our mother to take him with her.

Then he was still and crying and still have a conversation just as if they were in the same room. He was still trying to talk her into taking him when he all of a sudden said so I have to stay but David gets to go with you. David is our step dad, but to us he's our father. To make this shorter. After fighting with the nurses who was trying to hold him down..at least that's what they thought. But my brother was actually reach out to my mother that he was seeing. He was now saying, "I want to go, let David stay here" . A minute later we got a call that our father (David) was rushed to the hospital. My brother was now laying there crying but still out of it. Our father died two days later and my brother received a liver on the nigh he died.

I left out a lot of this because it went on for 30 minutes and my brother was not given any drugs at this time....other than blood work, nothing was done. There's nothing that can change my mine on what happen that night. The longtime family friend's life was changed from being a Atheist to a Christian.
(This post was last modified: 02-19-2018 05:53 PM by WKUYG.)
02-19-2018 05:49 PM
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Post: #69
RE: The Atheist Movie
(02-19-2018 02:23 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Even if there was a god, you'd have to ask why he made nature so cruel.

So that you'd be doubly grateful for heaven?
02-19-2018 05:54 PM
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ericsrevenge76 Online
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Post: #70
RE: The Atheist Movie
(02-19-2018 05:54 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 02:23 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Even if there was a god, you'd have to ask why he made nature so cruel.

So that you'd be doubly grateful for heaven?


Its a fake argument anyway. YHWH created all, He is righteous in His judgements against sin and depravity.

Just as he is righteous in His grace, love and compassion.
02-19-2018 05:58 PM
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Post: #71
RE: The Atheist Movie
(02-19-2018 03:00 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Like I said, if I'm wrong in my faith when I die there will be nothing.

If I'm right there's going to be a few of you on here who are going to be spending eternity wishing you weren't wrong.

This brought my brother to mind. My brother, pobresito, was a big time Liberal. He went to Columbia U. in an internship, wrote for our big time local rag which is very liberal and he was all into the Chicano movement. I used to tell him that he was still fighting the Mex-Amer. War, to let it go.

Anyway, I tried telling him about Jesus but like most atheists he wouldn't even try to hear. He told me one time, "hey bro, if when I die and I find out you were right I'll just tell myself I should have listened to my little brother". I told him if he waited until then he would be very late for changes of the heart. So let me give you unbelievers a bit of advice, don't go my brothers route, YOU still have a chance. Don't be dumb.
02-19-2018 06:04 PM
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Post: #72
RE: The Atheist Movie
(02-19-2018 06:04 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 03:00 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Like I said, if I'm wrong in my faith when I die there will be nothing.

If I'm right there's going to be a few of you on here who are going to be spending eternity wishing you weren't wrong.

This brought my brother to mind. My brother, pobresito, was a big time Liberal. He went to Columbia U. in an internship, wrote for our big time local rag which is very liberal and he was all into the Chicano movement. I used to tell him that he was still fighting the Mex-Amer. War, to let it go.

Anyway, I tried telling him about Jesus but like most atheists he wouldn't even try to hear. He told me one time, "hey bro, if when I die and I find out you were right I'll just tell myself I should have listened to my little brother". I told him if he waited until then he would be very late for changes of the heart. So let me give you unbelievers a bit of advice, don't go my brothers route, YOU still have a chance. Don't be dumb.

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02-19-2018 06:07 PM
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Post: #73
RE: The Atheist Movie
(02-19-2018 04:59 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 04:21 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 03:27 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Not even just the human condition. Animals have to eat each other, sometimes the prey animal is still alive while it gets eaten. Why not just make everyone herbivores?

And why have small children too young to know anything get swept away by a tsunami and drowned with a couple hundred thousand other people?

This sounds like you're really asking why does evil exist?

Without a God-like being let's roll back to materialism and nature.

Why is it cruel that an animal eats another animal? Why is it cruel that small children are killed by acts of nature?

Isn't nature the end that you're talking about? If nature is the end, how can you point to this or that and call it wrong?

Why have pain in the world if it isn't necessary? These are simply animals minding their own business that didn't do anything wrong. That's my point. Also, nature as it stands is not the end that I'm talking about. That's what I am saying I disagree with.

But what if pain is necessary?

Without pain you wouldn't know to visit the dentist or the doctor.

As far as animals which didn't do anything wrong, I assume you're talking about the animal being eaten. But isn't it possible that that animal had already eaten another animal?
02-19-2018 06:25 PM
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umbluegray Offline
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Post: #74
RE: The Atheist Movie
(02-19-2018 05:30 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 04:55 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 04:41 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 04:33 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 04:04 PM)miko33 Wrote:  Is this in relation to the big bang? This may very well be just a marker and that time is actually a constant of the universe. The universe may in fact be a void and we are living inside a giant bubble. As of today, we have no idea. You can't say that time did not exist prior to the big bang because we have no idea what was happening prior to big bang. There could have been matter prior to the big bang. The big bang may have been made from the matter of an earlier universe that collapsed upon itself like a "big crunch".

I have no idea what was around before the big bang. To my knowledge, no one else does either.

Sure, there could've been matter prior to the big bang, but that view is not accepted by mainstream science.

As mentioned in the video below, cosmologists Arvind Borde, Alan Guth and Alexander Vilenkin proved "any universe which has, on average, been expanding throughout its history cannot be eternal in the past, but must have an absolute beginning."

Vilenkin stated that scientists "can no longer hide behind a past-eternal universe. There is no escape, they have to face the problem of a cosmic beginning."





We are thoroughly in the weeds in relation to the Ray Comfort movie - though granted I'm still around the 20:00 min mark where Ray is conducting more "man on the street" interviews about which came first the chicken or the egg...

But back to your points, I'm sure we are in 100% agreement that the universe we know - or possibly more accurately the current space/matter bubble we live in today - has an origin and follows scientific rules that we know and probably have yet to discover. My point in all of this is that we don't know anything about what it was like before the big bang. The only thing we can actually know about is what we can observe in the volume of matter and space created by the big bang.

Do any of us know anything? Well, I know my car payment is due the 1st of the month and that 2+2 = 4, but regarding what we're discussing, no.

But logic does indeed exist. Without it we can't discover anything.

Logic does tell us that those things which begin to exist had a beginning.

We also know that abstract concepts are a part of reality even though they are not material.

Dr. Peter Atkins stated that science is omnipotent and can account for everything. Dr. William Lane Craig challenged that statement.

Science presupposes logic and relies on it. Logic does not only apply to science. Logic gives us insight to some things which aren't accessible by the scientific method. That does not mean they are incorrect.




Yes, logic exists. You can use logic and reason to rationalize, justify and speculate as well as utilize the more formal rules of logic to complement the scientific method. As I'm sure you are already aware, neither of us can prove nor disprove the existence of a higher power creating the universe. Both of us can use logic to put a reasonable case together on a position.

This is actually one of the final straws that I have that pushed me into the "unknown" camp. I still am a catholic and still go to church, but I'm really not sure if much of it is real anymore. Because at the end of the day, the only real way you can reason the existence of God is to make him an unknown prime mover. Because using logic/reason to conclude that there was a prime mover who created the universe is one thing. Equating him to the God of the bible is a completely different endeavor altogether. It's this latter part where I saw the disconnect.

You're exactly right, and I mentioned that in another of my posts. The evidence for a theistic being does NOT necessarily show that being to be the God of the Bible.

That is a different discussion altogether.

But there are rational considerations there as well.

Dr. Frank Turek identifies 4 questions which, if answered yes, drive you to the God of Christianity.
02-19-2018 06:28 PM
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Post: #75
RE: The Atheist Movie
(02-19-2018 05:31 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 05:16 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 05:03 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  What about all the stuff in the Old Testament? That is one vicious, angry god. Worse than anything I could ever do.


Actually it the most loving God anyone could ever imagine.

He loves man so much that he put man as the CENTER OF ALL CREATION. He made the entire universe as a backdrop for the earths sky.

He loved us so much, he even humbled HIMSELF to the point of being born into the flesh as a poor man, born in one of the smallest nations and towns in the world. Knowing he would be tortured and put to death in one of the cruellest ways possible, even though He was 100% innocent of all charges.

All just to justify mans sin before Him, to offer salvation, redemption and eternal life for all those who WILLINGLY choose Him over Satan and the world.

FREE WILL. That is true love. That is true compassion.

He not only offers salvation, redemption and eternal life, He offers to make us higher than even the Angles, to crown us with glory and honour, far more glorious than when He first made us. He is telling us literally, "Choose ME, and I will place you higher than all I make forever, even the Angels. You will literally become the sons of God"

If god is omniscient and knows everything then he knows what we are going to do, right? And if so, we can't possibly have free will because our decisions have already been made.

Knowing the decision does not equate to causing the decision.
02-19-2018 06:32 PM
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umbluegray Offline
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Post: #76
RE: The Atheist Movie
(02-19-2018 05:01 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 04:57 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 04:55 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 04:36 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 03:27 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Not even just the human condition. Animals have to eat each other, sometimes the prey animal is still alive while it gets eaten. Why not just make everyone herbivores?

And why have small children too young to know anything get swept away by a tsunami and drowned with a couple hundred thousand other people?


If you would just open the bible and read it, these questions are answered in great detail.

Open minded people are willing to read it and consider it before deciding to dismiss it.

There was no death, pain or misery when we were made and put here. We brought those things into the world by defying and turning our back on our creator.

And if you have read the Word of God and how this ends, you would understand what a glorious outcome awaits those who simply accept Christ as their Savior.

What a simple and easy thing eternal salvation is. You don't have to do a list of things or be perfect, or never sin again, you just have to accept and believe in Christ with all your heart.

Yet many have hardened their hearts because they love themselves and their sin too much.

I grew up Catholic, and believed in god when I was a kid, just like I believed in Santa Claus. I just have seen no reason whatsoever to think something like that exists.

You may not have a reason, but that does not mean the explanation is unreasonable.

Question: if Christianity were proven true, would you become a Christian?

If god appeared, and I could confirm that it wasn't a hoax or a trick, then I would believe in god.

That's good. At least that means you're open to discovering the truth whichever way it leads.

I can say that for myself as well.
02-19-2018 06:42 PM
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Post: #77
RE: The Atheist Movie
(02-19-2018 05:03 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 05:01 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 04:55 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 04:36 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 03:27 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Not even just the human condition. Animals have to eat each other, sometimes the prey animal is still alive while it gets eaten. Why not just make everyone herbivores?

And why have small children too young to know anything get swept away by a tsunami and drowned with a couple hundred thousand other people?


If you would just open the bible and read it, these questions are answered in great detail.

Open minded people are willing to read it and consider it before deciding to dismiss it.

There was no death, pain or misery when we were made and put here. We brought those things into the world by defying and turning our back on our creator.

And if you have read the Word of God and how this ends, you would understand what a glorious outcome awaits those who simply accept Christ as their Savior.

What a simple and easy thing eternal salvation is. You don't have to do a list of things or be perfect, or never sin again, you just have to accept and believe in Christ with all your heart.

Yet many have hardened their hearts because they love themselves and their sin too much.

I grew up Catholic, and believed in god when I was a kid, just like I believed in Santa Claus. I just have seen no reason whatsoever to think something like that exists.



Growing up Catholic is meaningless, they don't even believe in the Bible, much less teach it.

The reality is you have no reason NOT to believe God exists, He is visible in every aspect of creation.

The issues for you isn't really evidence, because you won't even read and examine the evidence you are given. If you have read the bible, you know the evidence in the OT is undeniable on infinite levels.

Your real issue is in your own heart, which is why you won;t even seriously examine the Bible or the evidence. You are scared to acknowledge Him at all because that means you have to acknowledge you will have to answer for your life and your choices at some point.

Self-deception is the easiest deception of all. I know because I fooled and lied to myself about it most of my life.

What about all the stuff in the Old Testament? That is one vicious, angry god. Worse than anything I could ever do.

"All the stuff in the Old Testament..." Anything in particular?
02-19-2018 06:43 PM
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olliebaba Offline
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Post: #78
RE: The Atheist Movie
(02-19-2018 05:39 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 05:33 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 05:31 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 05:16 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 05:03 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  What about all the stuff in the Old Testament? That is one vicious, angry god. Worse than anything I could ever do.


Actually it the most loving God anyone could ever imagine.

He loves man so much that he put man as the CENTER OF ALL CREATION. He made the entire universe as a backdrop for the earths sky.

He loved us so much, he even humbled HIMSELF to the point of being born into the flesh as a poor man, born in one of the smallest nations and towns in the world. Knowing he would be tortured and put to death in one of the cruellest ways possible, even though He was 100% innocent of all charges.

All just to justify mans sin before Him, to offer salvation, redemption and eternal life for all those who WILLINGLY choose Him over Satan and the world.

FREE WILL. That is true love. That is true compassion.

He not only offers salvation, redemption and eternal life, He offers to make us higher than even the Angles, to crown us with glory and honour, far more glorious than when He first made us. He is telling us literally, "Choose ME, and I will place you higher than all I make forever, even the Angels. You will literally become the sons of God"

If god is omniscient and knows everything then he knows what we are going to do, right? And if so, we can't possibly have free will because our decisions have already been made.


Sorry, but that logic doesn't pass the smell test.

If you are making a free choice of your own free will, then its your own choice and your own free will.

I know a lot of choices people would make beforehand if given to them, that does not mean they did not make a choice of their own free will.

You are wasting your time trying to reason away God. It will never work. All you can do is deceive yourself.

You think you know what they would do, but you're guessing.

I spent a fair percentage of my life deceiving myself all right. Then I realized all the logical inconsistencies and stuff that doesn't make sense, and stopped believing in an invisible thing in the sky.


Just because you don't understand it does not mean that it doesn't make sense. I don't understand algebra but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense.
02-19-2018 06:57 PM
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miko33 Offline
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Post: #79
RE: The Atheist Movie
(02-19-2018 05:58 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 05:54 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  
(02-19-2018 02:23 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Even if there was a god, you'd have to ask why he made nature so cruel.

So that you'd be doubly grateful for heaven?


Its a fake argument anyway. YHWH created all, He is righteous in His judgements against sin and depravity.

Just as he is righteous in His grace, love and compassion.

I don’t understand how Adam and Eve could have turned the whole world to **** simply for eating the wrong fruit.
02-19-2018 07:18 PM
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olliebaba Offline
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Post: #80
RE: The Atheist Movie
We know that Muslims and Jews have as hard a time in believing in Jesus as atheists. Check out these videos. These people are denying the Messiah which they believe in but don't believe that Jesus was the one. In their Tanahk Isaiah 53 is not even spoken of by their Rabbis because they don't WANT their people to see the truth that Jesus the Jewish Messiah is the one it speaks of. They're still waiting for the Messiah when us Christians through the Bible have seen that train come and go. Jesus WILL come again. This time He will come as the Lion that the Bible speaks of. Firstly he came as the Lamb to atone for OUR sins as Jesus was a sinless man but now He will come to rescue all His disciples, US, for the end times Armageddon. At that time we will rise with Him. I have studied the Bible for now 12 years and a lot of it doesn't make sense to me but like I said before that doesn't make it not so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vi2iaETM8g
(This post was last modified: 02-19-2018 07:19 PM by olliebaba.)
02-19-2018 07:18 PM
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