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What ifs of realignment: the ACC goes to 12 in 1991
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #41
RE: What ifs of realignment: the ACC goes to 12 in 1991
@HokieMark
We're talking about a much different era though. The ACC was just a tight knit regional association in the 50's. Their membership made total sense before college sports became more about TV money and large stadiums.
(This post was last modified: 02-23-2018 05:57 AM by _C2_.)
02-23-2018 05:54 AM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #42
RE: What ifs of realignment: the ACC goes to 12 in 1991
(02-22-2018 02:35 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  There's too many variables to this. Florida State was probably a lock, but, what would have happened if Penn State didn't have the votes for the Big Ten? How is Florida State looking now with Penn State, with them probably shilling for Syracuse, BC, and maybe Pitt and Rutgers? Would someone have made sure a Florida school was locked in? FSU or Miami?

Does Notre Dame factor into this if Penn State and other eastern schools now aligned to this even bigger ACC?

Does this cause Maryland to up and leave...and where do they go? And who goes with them? IIRC, UMD wasn't keen on a lot of the expansion choices over the years...?


Gene Corrigan was the AD at Notre Dame from 1981-87 before becoming ACC commissioner from 1987-97.

He really wanted ND to join the ACC, from way back.


"Corrigan acknowledges to Ratcliffe that he tried to arrange Notre Dame to be a partial member of the ACC, playing six football games per year. “'He liked the idea,' Corrigan says presumably of previous ND AD Kevin White now the Duke AD, "but I couldn’t get our schools to do it,” Corrigan said. “Our schools said you’re either totally in or you’re out.'”

And yes, Corrigan sees Pitt and Syracuse as making the ACC even more attractive to Notre Dame than it was when the Irish were ready to join for all sports as long as they would be required to play only six conference football games."


http://www.southernpigskin.com/archives/...expansion/
02-23-2018 08:12 AM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #43
RE: What ifs of realignment: the ACC goes to 12 in 1991
(02-23-2018 08:12 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(02-22-2018 02:35 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  There's too many variables to this. Florida State was probably a lock, but, what would have happened if Penn State didn't have the votes for the Big Ten? How is Florida State looking now with Penn State, with them probably shilling for Syracuse, BC, and maybe Pitt and Rutgers? Would someone have made sure a Florida school was locked in? FSU or Miami?

Does Notre Dame factor into this if Penn State and other eastern schools now aligned to this even bigger ACC?

Does this cause Maryland to up and leave...and where do they go? And who goes with them? IIRC, UMD wasn't keen on a lot of the expansion choices over the years...?


Gene Corrigan was the AD at Notre Dame from 1981-87 before becoming ACC commissioner from 1987-97.

He really wanted ND to join the ACC, from way back.


"Corrigan acknowledges to Ratcliffe that he tried to arrange Notre Dame to be a partial member of the ACC, playing six football games per year. “'He liked the idea,' Corrigan says presumably of previous ND AD Kevin White now the Duke AD, "but I couldn’t get our schools to do it,” Corrigan said. “Our schools said you’re either totally in or you’re out.'”

And yes, Corrigan sees Pitt and Syracuse as making the ACC even more attractive to Notre Dame than it was when the Irish were ready to join for all sports as long as they would be required to play only six conference football games."


http://www.southernpigskin.com/archives/...expansion/

and by waiting they ended up only getting a 5 game commitment.

that's funny
02-23-2018 01:56 PM
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XLance Online
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Post: #44
RE: What ifs of realignment: the ACC goes to 12 in 1991
(02-23-2018 08:12 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(02-22-2018 02:35 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  There's too many variables to this. Florida State was probably a lock, but, what would have happened if Penn State didn't have the votes for the Big Ten? How is Florida State looking now with Penn State, with them probably shilling for Syracuse, BC, and maybe Pitt and Rutgers? Would someone have made sure a Florida school was locked in? FSU or Miami?

Does Notre Dame factor into this if Penn State and other eastern schools now aligned to this even bigger ACC?

Does this cause Maryland to up and leave...and where do they go? And who goes with them? IIRC, UMD wasn't keen on a lot of the expansion choices over the years...?


Gene Corrigan was the AD at Notre Dame from 1981-87 before becoming ACC commissioner from 1987-97.

He really wanted ND to join the ACC, from way back.


"Corrigan acknowledges to Ratcliffe that he tried to arrange Notre Dame to be a partial member of the ACC, playing six football games per year. “'He liked the idea,' Corrigan says presumably of previous ND AD Kevin White now the Duke AD, "but I couldn’t get our schools to do it,” Corrigan said. “Our schools said you’re either totally in or you’re out.'”

And yes, Corrigan sees Pitt and Syracuse as making the ACC even more attractive to Notre Dame than it was when the Irish were ready to join for all sports as long as they would be required to play only six conference football games."


http://www.southernpigskin.com/archives/...expansion/

The author of this article is a realignment guru and has posted on this board and many others for quite some time.
02-24-2018 08:57 AM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #45
RE: What ifs of realignment: the ACC goes to 12 in 1991
I didn't want to start a new thread but what's happened to Pitt basketball?
03-06-2018 04:49 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #46
RE: What ifs of realignment: the ACC goes to 12 in 1991
Penn State, Virginia Tech, Miami (FL).
03-06-2018 04:58 PM
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Post: #47
RE: What ifs of realignment: the ACC goes to 12 in 1991
ACC going to 10 with Penn State and Florida State would have really changed a great deal.
03-06-2018 09:56 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #48
RE: What ifs of realignment: the ACC goes to 12 in 1991
(03-06-2018 09:56 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  ACC going to 10 with Penn State and Florida State would have really changed a great deal.

I don't think Penn State was on the menu.

Penn State alums were reluctant to join a Northern, football-first conference, that was full of aspirational peers (i.e., schools that Penn State would love to be considered a peer to, but in reality they weren't quite there yet) such as Michigan, Minnesota, Illinois and Wisconsin.

You really think Penn State would have wanted to join a Southern, basketball-first conference, where the average school had way less than half as many students as them?
03-07-2018 02:11 AM
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cuseroc Offline
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Post: #49
RE: What ifs of realignment: the ACC goes to 12 in 1991
(03-06-2018 04:49 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  I didn't want to start a new thread but what's happened to Pitt basketball?

They chased off their future HOF coach, Jamie Dixon to TCU and hired a below average retread Kevin Stallings. Makes me mad just thinking about.
03-07-2018 09:55 AM
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orangefan Offline
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Post: #50
RE: What ifs of realignment: the ACC goes to 12 in 1991
(03-07-2018 02:11 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(03-06-2018 09:56 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  ACC going to 10 with Penn State and Florida State would have really changed a great deal.

I don't think Penn State was on the menu.

Penn State alums were reluctant to join a Northern, football-first conference, that was full of aspirational peers (i.e., schools that Penn State would love to be considered a peer to, but in reality they weren't quite there yet) such as Michigan, Minnesota, Illinois and Wisconsin.

You really think Penn State would have wanted to join a Southern, basketball-first conference, where the average school had way less than half as many students as them?

Correct. They joined the Big Ten on December 15, 1989, setting off the realignment dominoes for the 1989-1991 round of realignment.
03-07-2018 10:30 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #51
RE: What ifs of realignment: the ACC goes to 12 in 1991
In my ideal fantasy of forward thinking, the ACC would have beaten the Big Ten to the punch, and added Penn State, Pitt, Florida State and Miami all at once.

ACC North: Penn State, Pitt, Maryland, Virginia, UNC, Duke
ACC South: NC State, Wake Forest, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State, Miami

After the SEC adds Arkansas and South Carolina, the Big Ten takes Kansas and Missouri. All these moves hasten the breakup of the SWC, with the remaining Big 8 schools adding the four Texas schools that eventually formed the Big 12. Except now they are at ten teams.

The Big East is left to form around BC, Syracuse, Rutgers, Temple, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Louisville, Virginia Tech and East Carolina. A nice conference, but in 1995 not a BCS AQ conference.
03-07-2018 10:32 AM
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Big Frog II Offline
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Post: #52
RE: What ifs of realignment: the ACC goes to 12 in 1991
(03-07-2018 09:55 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(03-06-2018 04:49 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  I didn't want to start a new thread but what's happened to Pitt basketball?

They chased off their future HOF coach, Jamie Dixon to TCU and hired a below average retread Kevin Stallings. Makes me mad just thinking about.

That was a huge break for TCU. That gives us a great football coach, basketball coach, and baseball coach.
03-07-2018 11:05 AM
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Hokie Mark Online
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Post: #53
RE: What ifs of realignment: the ACC goes to 12 in 1991
(03-07-2018 10:32 AM)ken d Wrote:  In my ideal fantasy of forward thinking, the ACC would have beaten the Big Ten to the punch, and added Penn State, Pitt, Florida State and Miami all at once.

ACC North: Penn State, Pitt, Maryland, Virginia, UNC, Duke
ACC South: NC State, Wake Forest, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State, Miami

After the SEC adds Arkansas and South Carolina, the Big Ten takes Kansas and Missouri. All these moves hasten the breakup of the SWC, with the remaining Big 8 schools adding the four Texas schools that eventually formed the Big 12. Except now they are at ten teams.

The Big East is left to form around BC, Syracuse, Rutgers, Temple, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Louisville, Virginia Tech and East Carolina. A nice conference, but in 1995 not a BCS AQ conference.

It probably would've been bad news for Virginia Tech, but that would've been the best possible expansion plan for the ACC, circa 1986 or so (1991 might've been too late).
03-07-2018 11:29 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #54
RE: What ifs of realignment: the ACC goes to 12 in 1991
(03-07-2018 10:32 AM)ken d Wrote:  In my ideal fantasy of forward thinking, the ACC would have beaten the Big Ten to the punch, and added Penn State, Pitt, Florida State and Miami all at once.

ACC North: Penn State, Pitt, Maryland, Virginia, UNC, Duke
ACC South: NC State, Wake Forest, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State, Miami

After the SEC adds Arkansas and South Carolina, the Big Ten takes Kansas and Missouri. All these moves hasten the breakup of the SWC, with the remaining Big 8 schools adding the four Texas schools that eventually formed the Big 12. Except now they are at ten teams.

The Big East is left to form around BC, Syracuse, Rutgers, Temple, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Louisville, Virginia Tech and East Carolina. A nice conference, but in 1995 not a BCS AQ conference.

That puts the kibosh on Big East football in the first place, I think.
03-07-2018 12:47 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #55
RE: What ifs of realignment: the ACC goes to 12 in 1991
Maryland
West Virginia
Virginia
Virginia Tech
UNC
Duke

NC State
Wake
Clemson
GT
FSU
Miami

Should have done that in 2002/2003. Not that I would want to travel to Morgantown for a game.
03-07-2018 02:18 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #56
RE: What ifs of realignment: the ACC goes to 12 in 1991
Actually, I’d prefer:

UNC-NC State
Duke-Wake
UVA-VT
UMD-WVU
GT-Clemson
Miami-FSU
03-07-2018 02:50 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #57
RE: What ifs of realignment: the ACC goes to 12 in 1991
(03-07-2018 02:50 PM)esayem Wrote:  Actually, I’d prefer:

UNC-NC State
Duke-Wake
UVA-VT
UMD-WVU
GT-Clemson
Miami-FSU

Maybe swap UMD and VT for better football balance?
03-07-2018 02:56 PM
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orangefan Offline
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Post: #58
RE: What ifs of realignment: the ACC goes to 12 in 1991
I'm sure this has been posted on this board before, but interesting article about the order of events in 1990. Basically, Florida State was the SEC's first choice ahead of SCar or the U for the league's 12th slot. The ACC lobbied hard to bring in Florida State. After FSU chose the ACC, Miami equivocated about its interest in the SEC, while SCar had already voted to accept an invitation if it came. The SEC decided to move ahead with the school that was ready to commit. The interesting question is, what would have happened to both the ACC and the Big East if FSU had chosen the SEC.

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/2011/1...onference/
03-07-2018 03:53 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #59
RE: What ifs of realignment: the ACC goes to 12 in 1991
(03-07-2018 11:29 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(03-07-2018 10:32 AM)ken d Wrote:  In my ideal fantasy of forward thinking, the ACC would have beaten the Big Ten to the punch, and added Penn State, Pitt, Florida State and Miami all at once.

ACC North: Penn State, Pitt, Maryland, Virginia, UNC, Duke
ACC South: NC State, Wake Forest, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State, Miami

After the SEC adds Arkansas and South Carolina, the Big Ten takes Kansas and Missouri. All these moves hasten the breakup of the SWC, with the remaining Big 8 schools adding the four Texas schools that eventually formed the Big 12. Except now they are at ten teams.

The Big East is left to form around BC, Syracuse, Rutgers, Temple, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Louisville, Virginia Tech and East Carolina. A nice conference, but in 1995 not a BCS AQ conference.

It probably would've been bad news for Virginia Tech, but that would've been the best possible expansion plan for the ACC, circa 1986 or so (1991 might've been too late).

Yes. In the late 1980's Virginia Tech was not yet what they would soon become. It was probably best for them that they came on board later.
03-07-2018 04:01 PM
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Post: #60
RE: What ifs of realignment: the ACC goes to 12 in 1991
(03-07-2018 03:53 PM)orangefan Wrote:  I'm sure this has been posted on this board before, but interesting article about the order of events in 1990. Basically, Florida State was the SEC's first choice ahead of SCar or the U for the league's 12th slot. The ACC lobbied hard to bring in Florida State. After FSU chose the ACC, Miami equivocated about its interest in the SEC, while SCar had already voted to accept an invitation if it came. The SEC decided to move ahead with the school that was ready to commit. The interesting question is, what would have happened to both the ACC and the Big East if FSU had chosen the SEC.

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/2011/1...onference/

Florida St to the SEC in the early 90s would have changed everything.

If the ACC expanded at all that year it would have had to have been South Carolina or possibly the Gamecocks and Miami as a pair.

If Miami never joined the Big East that conference's nascent football league would have been far weaker.

Without Florida St in the ACC in think that the ACC would have been in a much more vulnerable position in the 2010s had the SEC come calling for the South Carolina pair.
03-07-2018 05:41 PM
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