So it's being reported there was an armed security guard outside the school when the shooting started. Did not respond in a timely manner. So there you go, the one wild card in the arm 'em to the teeth argument, human nature. What do you do when the bullets start flying. Can you really count on civilians to respond correctly in a once in a life time emergency?

(02-22-2018 07:29 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  So it's being reported there was an armed security guard outside the school when the shooting started. Did not respond in a timely manner. So there you go, the one wild card in the arm 'em to the teeth argument, human nature. What do you do when the bullets start flying. Can you really count on civilians to respond correctly in a once in a life time emergency?

So it's being reported that the FBI was warned in advance and did nothing. Did not respond in an appropriate manner. So there you go, the one wild card in the "Trust the government to keep you safe, you don't need guns", human nature. What do you do when bullets start flying. Can you really count on the government to respond correctly in a once in a life time emergency?

This is horrible. This guy was the school resource officer there for several years winning SRO of the year in 2014. He knew these kids and let this happen. This is awful beyond belief.

(02-22-2018 07:39 PM)Claw Wrote:  This is horrible. This guy was the school resource officer there for several years winning SRO of the year in 2014. He knew these kids and let this happen. This is awful beyond belief.

And it's yet another of layer of government that failed here...

Here's another point.... The armed agent of the government did nothing... A teacher inside who was forbidden from arming himself acted as a human shield to protect kids.

(02-22-2018 07:40 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 07:39 PM)Claw Wrote:  This is horrible. This guy was the school resource officer there for several years winning SRO of the year in 2014. He knew these kids and let this happen. This is awful beyond belief.

And it's yet another of layer of government that failed here...

Saw on the national news he took up a position outside but did not attempt to engage the shooter. That is so sad for the families of the victims. In lieu of suspension he took early retirement. He'll have to move from that community.

(02-22-2018 07:44 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 07:40 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 07:39 PM)Claw Wrote:  This is horrible. This guy was the school resource officer there for several years winning SRO of the year in 2014. He knew these kids and let this happen. This is awful beyond belief.

And it's yet another of layer of government that failed here...

Saw on the national news he took up a position outside but did not attempt to engage the shooter. That is so sad for the families of the victims. In lieu of suspension he took early retirement. He'll have to move from that community.

He'll more likely kill himself.

Before I leave the guy twisting in the wind, what was his training and what was policy?

Was he told to boldly confront any shooter and take him down.

Was he told to raise the alarm, take cover, and wait for backup/SWAT?



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(02-22-2018 07:51 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  Before I leave the guy twisting in the wind, what was his training and what was policy?

Was he told to boldly confront any shooter and take him down.

Was he told to raise the alarm, take cover, and wait for backup/SWAT?

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I can only tell you that the County Sheriff's statement is the SRO failed to engage the shooter that is part of law enforcement training. When you arrive on an active shooting scene, you move toward the shooter. The fact that they were going to suspend him should tell you he failed in his duties to protect.

(02-22-2018 07:40 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 07:39 PM)Claw Wrote:  This is horrible. This guy was the school resource officer there for several years winning SRO of the year in 2014. He knew these kids and let this happen. This is awful beyond belief.

And it's yet another of layer of government that failed here...

Wrong. No matter how you deflect. This was on a human, not a "government".

I saw a tweet earlier today that said President Reagan was shot surrounded by secret service agents, but armed math teachers are now expected to protect our students?

(02-22-2018 07:54 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 07:51 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  Before I leave the guy twisting in the wind, what was his training and what was policy?

Was he told to boldly confront any shooter and take him down.

Was he told to raise the alarm, take cover, and wait for backup/SWAT?

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I can only tell you that the County Sheriff's statement is the SRO failed to engage the shooter that is part of law enforcement training. When you arrive on an active shooting scene, you move toward the shooter. The fact that they were going to suspend him should tell you he failed in his duties to protect.

You are probably right in this case.

But history shows just because the higher-ups suspend a cop doesn't mean the cop was at fault or didn't do as trained.

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Sheriff said he was disgusted and that the SRO should have engaged the shooter.

Guy is a cop. He knows the danger of his job. He stood by and let the children he was tasked with protecting be killed.

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(02-22-2018 07:57 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 07:40 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 07:39 PM)Claw Wrote:  This is horrible. This guy was the school resource officer there for several years winning SRO of the year in 2014. He knew these kids and let this happen. This is awful beyond belief.

And it's yet another of layer of government that failed here...

Wrong. No matter how you deflect. This was on a human, not a "government".

LOL.... When an agent of the government fails, the government fails... It's ok to acknowledge that the government failed at something, right?

The point is that you're so fast to say

"see letting teacher conceal carry is bull**** because *THIS* time it failed"

is just as legit as saying

"see armed *GOVERNMENT TRAINED AND APPOINTED* agents failed so there is no point to having the government respond."

(02-22-2018 08:01 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  Sheriff said he was disgusted and that the SRO should have engaged the shooter.

Guy is a cop. He knows the danger of his job. He stood by and let the children he was tasked with protecting be killed.

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It's ok when a non government group fails it's a "failure of the system" but when the government fails it's "just some guy"...

This wasn't just some cop. This guy worked on that campus for at least three years. He knew those kids. He saw them every single day. He spent his working life there for years. How in the hell? I will never understand. Never.

(02-22-2018 07:39 PM)Claw Wrote:  This is horrible. This guy was the school resource officer there for several years winning SRO of the year in 2014. He knew these kids and let this happen. This is awful beyond belief.

He shucked his duties after being named SRO of the year 4 years ago. Clearly coasting to retirement.

Most police in that situation would have run towards the gun shots. We’ve seen that time and again.

This one off is no real argument.

(02-22-2018 07:57 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 07:40 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 07:39 PM)Claw Wrote:  This is horrible. This guy was the school resource officer there for several years winning SRO of the year in 2014. He knew these kids and let this happen. This is awful beyond belief.

And it's yet another of layer of government that failed here...

Wrong. No matter how you deflect. This was on a human, not a "government".

Maybe next time you can post in one of the 50 threads on this?

So you just admitted it's a human issue not an inanimate object issue, thanks

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(02-22-2018 07:29 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  So it's being reported there was an armed security guard outside the school when the shooting started. Did not respond in a timely manner. So there you go, the one wild card in the arm 'em to the teeth argument, human nature. What do you do when the bullets start flying. Can you really count on civilians to respond correctly in a once in a life time emergency?

You probably can if the guy is shooting at their door trying to get in. It just takes one to change the entire dynamic of one of these attacks.

Frankly, I think this strengthens the argument for concealed carry for teachers. You might have had a dozen trained gun carrying teachers at the school when it was attacked. One guy might have been too scared to engage---but I suspect it would have been different if there were half a dozen armed teachers working together. The coach who was blocking bullets with from hitting kids with his body certainly would not have been afraid to engage the shooter---and was probably the type of fellow that would have been willing to carry.

The last shooting like this occurred in a church (another place where nobody is typically armed). The shooter was stopped by a single private citizen with a gun who heard the shots from his nearby home. Like I said---it just takes one.