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AppManDG Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
(02-27-2018 03:26 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 02:46 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(02-26-2018 10:22 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(02-26-2018 08:58 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(02-26-2018 03:49 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  Sounds like the football schools need to up their game.



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No, the non-football schools need to step up to the plate and do away with the non part.

Why would we want to make our conference's basketball (generally) worse by getting rid of UALR and UTA?

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It's about leveling the playing field. With money getting tighter every year the non-football schools have a huge budge advantage over the rest of the conference.

Its true that they can focus on non-football sports more, but their budgets are also generally lower overall and they don't have football to boost fan attention/loyalty. So I'm not sure they really have that much of a competive advantage.

When LR played at Verizon our fans outnumbered them despite their population and non-football status. We have managed to be pretty competitive with them.

Non-football doesn't appear to give them advantages in things like indoor track either.

UTA is pretty good at basketball. I suspect they would still be pretty good at basketball if the started football.

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In the SoCon Davidson, Charleston and UNCG's budgets we're all at the top of the conference in basketball, baseball, soccer, and women's sports. And the results showed it.

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02-27-2018 06:19 PM
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AppManDG Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
(02-27-2018 02:44 PM)THUNDERGround Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 11:43 AM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  
(02-23-2018 07:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  And the AAC and MWC are happy the way they are. The MAC is regional. This is really just a CUSA and Sun Belt issue.

Just a CUSA issue! The Sun Belt is fine as it is and while a stray fan here or there will talk going regional the vast majority of us a very happy with our conference line up.

More than a stray. It has been brought up by some school administrations.

You think GS would turn down an opportunity for less travel costs and more attractive opponents? Such as:

Marshall
ODU
MTSU
WKU
Charlotte
App

GaSt
GS
FAU
FIU
Coastal
Troy

This is a nice compromise between CUSA and the Belt. Strong teams still in both conferences. Id miss the hell outta UAB, USM, and La Tech, but in the long run, I think it'd be better for them too.

Now, if I could cherry pick:

Marshall
WKU
MTSU
ODU
App
GS

LaTech
UAB
USM
Troy
FAU
Arkansas State
If I were Doug Gillin I'd be on that in a heartbeat. What most people don't realize is it's the Olympic Sports that will be driving realignment. Presidents are not happy with the amount of missed class time these young people are being subjected to. It's not sending a football squad halfway across the country on the weekends, but doing that with your other sports during the week.

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02-27-2018 06:28 PM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
(02-27-2018 05:01 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 12:42 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-26-2018 12:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  2) The best non-power basketball programs need to coalesce. The best non-power basketball programs can improve their schedule and RPI (and their ability to make the tournament) by grouping together. This has economic value as you indicated before by building teams that can win in the tournament (more credits) or by addint at large bids (even more credits). It may even have some TV value (see Big East). So, it may be worth expanding the footprint somewhat--so that one "picks and chooses" a conference that has a very strong basketball core---strong enough to attract a few key basketball only members to supercharge the league.

The current NCAA rules strongly discourage forming new D-I conferences. No one is going to start up a new conference that won't have NCAA autobids for 8 years. And no one (not even UConn) is going to leave an FBS conference for a conference that doesn't sponsor FBS football.

Even if you just look at conferences that don't have FBS football, there isn't enough there to justify any new "collection" that makes sense -- best you can do is something like 4 or 5 from the A-10, 2 or 3 from the MVC, plus, I don't know, Murray State, Belmont, Northern Kentucky. It doesn't pencil out when you have to go without autobids for 8 years and each of those schools has to pay an exit fee to its current conference. It also doesn't help that much to add a couple of good programs to an existing conference unless you also jettison a few of that conference's teams that are never competitive in hoops.

No need for a new conference. My feeling is the AAC (in the east) and MW (in the west) would be the place for non-FBS playing high profile basketball programs (outside of the P5) to gravitate toward. Talking maybe 2-4 adds here in the AAC at most. Maybe the same number in the west. Adds that play football are possible---cant say UMass, W Kentucky, or MTSU might not be worth considering. Two of those 3 offer good basketball along with quite competent football programs. NMSU in the west might be worth a look by the MW. This is a very limited strategy at the top level of non-power basketball.

For the rest of the G5, it would be part of any reorganization that might occur if the G5 conferences decided TV money had completely dried up and regional low travel cost conferences were more viable. Such conferences would be primarily based on location---but building solid basketball would probably be a major driver in how they coalesce. These moves would likely not be true "new" conferences---but rather reorganizations of the schools within the existing shells of the SB and CUSA (and perhaps even the AAC).

I think everyone's in a holding pattern until the power conferences decide what they want to do, which seems like it won't be until 2023-24 due to contracts. What's the point in all these schools gravitating together if the BIG12 implodes and then turns around and sucks the best teams from it? There's a very good chance that the schools VCU would want to join would be the ones leaving and they'd find themselves as the red-headed stepchild (basketball only) in a FBS football league that spans the country so they could play ECU, Tulane, Tulsa and Temple. I think they'd be very hesitant at this time. They can still get an at large from the A10 and get to keep a lot of the share of money when they do. I don't see the urgency for them. If it looked like the league you suggested could be viable long term then maybe so.
02-27-2018 06:31 PM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
(02-27-2018 06:28 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 02:44 PM)THUNDERGround Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 11:43 AM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  
(02-23-2018 07:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  And the AAC and MWC are happy the way they are. The MAC is regional. This is really just a CUSA and Sun Belt issue.

Just a CUSA issue! The Sun Belt is fine as it is and while a stray fan here or there will talk going regional the vast majority of us a very happy with our conference line up.

More than a stray. It has been brought up by some school administrations.

You think GS would turn down an opportunity for less travel costs and more attractive opponents? Such as:

Marshall
ODU
MTSU
WKU
Charlotte
App

GaSt
GS
FAU
FIU
Coastal
Troy

This is a nice compromise between CUSA and the Belt. Strong teams still in both conferences. Id miss the hell outta UAB, USM, and La Tech, but in the long run, I think it'd be better for them too.

Now, if I could cherry pick:

Marshall
WKU
MTSU
ODU
App
GS

LaTech
UAB
USM
Troy
FAU
Arkansas State
If I were Doug Gillin I'd be on that in a heartbeat. What most people don't realize is it's the Olympic Sports that will be driving realignment. Presidents are not happy with the amount of missed class time these young people are being subjected to. It's not sending a football squad halfway across the country on the weekends, but doing that with your other sports during the week.

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Which is a reason why allowing FBS football only conferences like the article suggests would make sense as well. G5 schools are a lot more spread out than all DIV I schools.
(This post was last modified: 02-27-2018 06:33 PM by mturn017.)
02-27-2018 06:33 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
(02-27-2018 06:31 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 05:01 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 12:42 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-26-2018 12:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  2) The best non-power basketball programs need to coalesce. The best non-power basketball programs can improve their schedule and RPI (and their ability to make the tournament) by grouping together. This has economic value as you indicated before by building teams that can win in the tournament (more credits) or by addint at large bids (even more credits). It may even have some TV value (see Big East). So, it may be worth expanding the footprint somewhat--so that one "picks and chooses" a conference that has a very strong basketball core---strong enough to attract a few key basketball only members to supercharge the league.

The current NCAA rules strongly discourage forming new D-I conferences. No one is going to start up a new conference that won't have NCAA autobids for 8 years. And no one (not even UConn) is going to leave an FBS conference for a conference that doesn't sponsor FBS football.

Even if you just look at conferences that don't have FBS football, there isn't enough there to justify any new "collection" that makes sense -- best you can do is something like 4 or 5 from the A-10, 2 or 3 from the MVC, plus, I don't know, Murray State, Belmont, Northern Kentucky. It doesn't pencil out when you have to go without autobids for 8 years and each of those schools has to pay an exit fee to its current conference. It also doesn't help that much to add a couple of good programs to an existing conference unless you also jettison a few of that conference's teams that are never competitive in hoops.

No need for a new conference. My feeling is the AAC (in the east) and MW (in the west) would be the place for non-FBS playing high profile basketball programs (outside of the P5) to gravitate toward. Talking maybe 2-4 adds here in the AAC at most. Maybe the same number in the west. Adds that play football are possible---cant say UMass, W Kentucky, or MTSU might not be worth considering. Two of those 3 offer good basketball along with quite competent football programs. NMSU in the west might be worth a look by the MW. This is a very limited strategy at the top level of non-power basketball.

For the rest of the G5, it would be part of any reorganization that might occur if the G5 conferences decided TV money had completely dried up and regional low travel cost conferences were more viable. Such conferences would be primarily based on location---but building solid basketball would probably be a major driver in how they coalesce. These moves would likely not be true "new" conferences---but rather reorganizations of the schools within the existing shells of the SB and CUSA (and perhaps even the AAC).

I think everyone's in a holding pattern until the power conferences decide what they want to do, which seems like it won't be until 2023-24 due to contracts. What's the point in all these schools gravitating together if the BIG12 implodes and then turns around and sucks the best teams from it? There's a very good chance that the schools VCU would want to join would be the ones leaving and they'd find themselves as the red-headed stepchild (basketball only) in a FBS football league that spans the country so they could play ECU, Tulane, Tulsa and Temple. I think they'd be very hesitant at this time. They can still get an at large from the A10 and get to keep a lot of the share of money when they do. I don't see the urgency for them. If it looked like the league you suggested could be viable long term then maybe so.

Agreed. I dont see any major realignment moves as being very likley between now and 2023/2024-ish.. The only exception might be a voluntary and cooperative reorganization of the SB and CUSA on strictly regional basis. Such a move would happen at no cost (enty/exit fees suspended) and with nobody being left out. It would just be moving around to make travel cheaper and save everyone money. Nobody would see it as a long term solution---just a temporary band-aid to cut costs until a more permanent solution comes along in the mid-2020's. I give something along those lines maybe a 10% chance of happening at best.
02-27-2018 08:56 PM
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Side Show Joe Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
(02-27-2018 08:56 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 06:31 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 05:01 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 12:42 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-26-2018 12:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  2) The best non-power basketball programs need to coalesce. The best non-power basketball programs can improve their schedule and RPI (and their ability to make the tournament) by grouping together. This has economic value as you indicated before by building teams that can win in the tournament (more credits) or by addint at large bids (even more credits). It may even have some TV value (see Big East). So, it may be worth expanding the footprint somewhat--so that one "picks and chooses" a conference that has a very strong basketball core---strong enough to attract a few key basketball only members to supercharge the league.

The current NCAA rules strongly discourage forming new D-I conferences. No one is going to start up a new conference that won't have NCAA autobids for 8 years. And no one (not even UConn) is going to leave an FBS conference for a conference that doesn't sponsor FBS football.

Even if you just look at conferences that don't have FBS football, there isn't enough there to justify any new "collection" that makes sense -- best you can do is something like 4 or 5 from the A-10, 2 or 3 from the MVC, plus, I don't know, Murray State, Belmont, Northern Kentucky. It doesn't pencil out when you have to go without autobids for 8 years and each of those schools has to pay an exit fee to its current conference. It also doesn't help that much to add a couple of good programs to an existing conference unless you also jettison a few of that conference's teams that are never competitive in hoops.

No need for a new conference. My feeling is the AAC (in the east) and MW (in the west) would be the place for non-FBS playing high profile basketball programs (outside of the P5) to gravitate toward. Talking maybe 2-4 adds here in the AAC at most. Maybe the same number in the west. Adds that play football are possible---cant say UMass, W Kentucky, or MTSU might not be worth considering. Two of those 3 offer good basketball along with quite competent football programs. NMSU in the west might be worth a look by the MW. This is a very limited strategy at the top level of non-power basketball.

For the rest of the G5, it would be part of any reorganization that might occur if the G5 conferences decided TV money had completely dried up and regional low travel cost conferences were more viable. Such conferences would be primarily based on location---but building solid basketball would probably be a major driver in how they coalesce. These moves would likely not be true "new" conferences---but rather reorganizations of the schools within the existing shells of the SB and CUSA (and perhaps even the AAC).

I think everyone's in a holding pattern until the power conferences decide what they want to do, which seems like it won't be until 2023-24 due to contracts. What's the point in all these schools gravitating together if the BIG12 implodes and then turns around and sucks the best teams from it? There's a very good chance that the schools VCU would want to join would be the ones leaving and they'd find themselves as the red-headed stepchild (basketball only) in a FBS football league that spans the country so they could play ECU, Tulane, Tulsa and Temple. I think they'd be very hesitant at this time. They can still get an at large from the A10 and get to keep a lot of the share of money when they do. I don't see the urgency for them. If it looked like the league you suggested could be viable long term then maybe so.

Agreed. I dont see any major realignment moves as being very likley between now and 2023/2024-ish.. The only exception might be a voluntary and cooperative reorganization of the SB and CUSA on strictly regional basis. Such a move would happen at no cost (enty/exit fees suspended) and with nobody being left out. It would just be moving around to make travel cheaper and save everyone money. Nobody would see it as a long term solution---just a temporary band-aid to cut costs until a more permanent solution comes along in the mid-2020's. I give something along those lines maybe a 10% chance of happening at best.

I give it a 0% chance because of the bold type above. There will be no voluntary reorganization. Why would those of us that are growing and having success in the current configuration of C-USA West (LA Tech, North Texas, UTSA) willing vote to change the lineups, and add some programs that we don't want or need? Plus the majority of of the programs being pushed on us are struggling. Although Rice and UTEP are down, I highly doubt they feel a reorganization with ULM, ULL, and Texas State will help their situation.

Of the 4 Sun Belt programs west of the Mississippi, only Arkansas State finished with a winning record last season.

Truth is, I do not see the Texas programs or LA Tech budging, so until we see movement within the P5 conferences, everything will remain as it currently stands. In the 2020's things could change, but even then I think programs will be left out.
02-27-2018 09:24 PM
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arkstfan Online
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Post: #67
RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
(02-27-2018 04:49 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 03:39 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 12:42 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-26-2018 12:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  2) The best non-power basketball programs need to coalesce. The best non-power basketball programs can improve their schedule and RPI (and their ability to make the tournament) by grouping together. This has economic value as you indicated before by building teams that can win in the tournament (more credits) or by addint at large bids (even more credits). It may even have some TV value (see Big East). So, it may be worth expanding the footprint somewhat--so that one "picks and chooses" a conference that has a very strong basketball core---strong enough to attract a few key basketball only members to supercharge the league.

The current NCAA rules strongly discourage forming new D-I conferences. No one is going to start up a new conference that won't have NCAA autobids for 8 years. And no one (not even UConn) is going to leave an FBS conference for a conference that doesn't sponsor FBS football.

Even if you just look at conferences that don't have FBS football, there isn't enough there to justify any new "collection" that makes sense -- best you can do is something like 4 or 5 from the A-10, 2 or 3 from the MVC, plus, I don't know, Murray State, Belmont, Northern Kentucky. It doesn't pencil out when you have to go without autobids for 8 years and each of those schools has to pay an exit fee to its current conference. It also doesn't help that much to add a couple of good programs to an existing conference unless you also jettison a few of that conference's teams that are never competitive in hoops.

Far easier to hijack a league than start a new one.
If ODU has a band of merry men (and women's) sports sponsoring schools they wanted to affiliate the smart play is to call up the Sun Belt say take us all. They aren't going to say no because they understand the remaining CUSA has to act.

It would sort itself out fairly quickly.

The article linked in the OP suggests that ODU would want to stay with Charlotte and maybe Marshall out of CUSA. Even if you add one more, say Middle Tennessee, I'm pretty sure that (1) the Sun Belt presidents wouldn't vote to add 4 more to the 12 they already have (including the no-football schools), and (2) even if they did, the other CUSA members would say, "OK, we still have 10, we're fine, in fact we'll each make more money now... good luck, guys." CUSA could lose as many as 7 and still have enough members to remain an FBS conference (if they lose exactly 7 they could add NMSU), and there's no way the Sun Belt presidents would vote to add 7 or more new schools at once.

Also, it's worth pointing out that the current Sun Belt commissioner had a really bad previous experience when he attempted to force a major upheaval among two conferences. 07-coffee3

First, he's gone as soon as his contract is up.
Second I wouldn't be so certain. If ODU, MTSU, Charlotte and Marshall came knocking I think they would be invited in.

Always helps to know the local rules. 75% of the vote of the membership can send non-football Texas-Arlington and Arkansas-Little Rock packing by making FBS football a required sport. Arkansas State, Texas State, and Monroe would vote no and be voted down and boom you are at 14.

If you have two you want to cull to get to 12 that requires a unanimous vote of the schools not being considered for expulsion.

Sun Belt had the votes to expel Texas-Pan American leading to them choosing to withdraw and sport sponsorship rules were used to run off Denver and New Orleans. Sun Belt has removed members.
02-27-2018 09:33 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
(02-27-2018 09:24 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 08:56 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 06:31 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 05:01 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 12:42 PM)Wedge Wrote:  The current NCAA rules strongly discourage forming new D-I conferences. No one is going to start up a new conference that won't have NCAA autobids for 8 years. And no one (not even UConn) is going to leave an FBS conference for a conference that doesn't sponsor FBS football.

Even if you just look at conferences that don't have FBS football, there isn't enough there to justify any new "collection" that makes sense -- best you can do is something like 4 or 5 from the A-10, 2 or 3 from the MVC, plus, I don't know, Murray State, Belmont, Northern Kentucky. It doesn't pencil out when you have to go without autobids for 8 years and each of those schools has to pay an exit fee to its current conference. It also doesn't help that much to add a couple of good programs to an existing conference unless you also jettison a few of that conference's teams that are never competitive in hoops.

No need for a new conference. My feeling is the AAC (in the east) and MW (in the west) would be the place for non-FBS playing high profile basketball programs (outside of the P5) to gravitate toward. Talking maybe 2-4 adds here in the AAC at most. Maybe the same number in the west. Adds that play football are possible---cant say UMass, W Kentucky, or MTSU might not be worth considering. Two of those 3 offer good basketball along with quite competent football programs. NMSU in the west might be worth a look by the MW. This is a very limited strategy at the top level of non-power basketball.

For the rest of the G5, it would be part of any reorganization that might occur if the G5 conferences decided TV money had completely dried up and regional low travel cost conferences were more viable. Such conferences would be primarily based on location---but building solid basketball would probably be a major driver in how they coalesce. These moves would likely not be true "new" conferences---but rather reorganizations of the schools within the existing shells of the SB and CUSA (and perhaps even the AAC).

I think everyone's in a holding pattern until the power conferences decide what they want to do, which seems like it won't be until 2023-24 due to contracts. What's the point in all these schools gravitating together if the BIG12 implodes and then turns around and sucks the best teams from it? There's a very good chance that the schools VCU would want to join would be the ones leaving and they'd find themselves as the red-headed stepchild (basketball only) in a FBS football league that spans the country so they could play ECU, Tulane, Tulsa and Temple. I think they'd be very hesitant at this time. They can still get an at large from the A10 and get to keep a lot of the share of money when they do. I don't see the urgency for them. If it looked like the league you suggested could be viable long term then maybe so.

Agreed. I dont see any major realignment moves as being very likley between now and 2023/2024-ish.. The only exception might be a voluntary and cooperative reorganization of the SB and CUSA on strictly regional basis. Such a move would happen at no cost (enty/exit fees suspended) and with nobody being left out. It would just be moving around to make travel cheaper and save everyone money. Nobody would see it as a long term solution---just a temporary band-aid to cut costs until a more permanent solution comes along in the mid-2020's. I give something along those lines maybe a 10% chance of happening at best.

I give it a 0% chance because of the bold type above. There will be no voluntary reorganization. Why would those of us that are growing and having success in the current configuration of C-USA West (LA Tech, North Texas, UTSA) willing vote to change the lineups, and add some programs that we don't want or need? Plus the majority of of the programs being pushed on us are struggling. Although Rice and UTEP are down, I highly doubt they feel a reorganization with ULM, ULL, and Texas State will help their situation.

Of the 4 Sun Belt programs west of the Mississippi, only Arkansas State finished with a winning record last season.

Truth is, I do not see the Texas programs or LA Tech budging, so until we see movement within the P5 conferences, everything will remain as it currently stands. In the 2020's things could change, but even then I think programs will be left out.

IF it happened it would be because your administration would come to the conclusion that the bottom of CUSA East is no different than the bottom of Sunbelt West. Essentially, CUSA West would largely be unchanged. Your crossover games would change. You can fly 1000 Miles to play Charlotte or a few hundred mikes to play UL-M. There may come a time when that makes sense to the NTSU administration, that said, I said it had a 10% chance of happening at best. So, we basically agree that the chances are pretty good it doesn’t happen.
02-28-2018 10:56 AM
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arkstfan Online
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Post: #69
RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
(02-28-2018 10:56 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 09:24 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 08:56 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 06:31 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 05:01 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  No need for a new conference. My feeling is the AAC (in the east) and MW (in the west) would be the place for non-FBS playing high profile basketball programs (outside of the P5) to gravitate toward. Talking maybe 2-4 adds here in the AAC at most. Maybe the same number in the west. Adds that play football are possible---cant say UMass, W Kentucky, or MTSU might not be worth considering. Two of those 3 offer good basketball along with quite competent football programs. NMSU in the west might be worth a look by the MW. This is a very limited strategy at the top level of non-power basketball.

For the rest of the G5, it would be part of any reorganization that might occur if the G5 conferences decided TV money had completely dried up and regional low travel cost conferences were more viable. Such conferences would be primarily based on location---but building solid basketball would probably be a major driver in how they coalesce. These moves would likely not be true "new" conferences---but rather reorganizations of the schools within the existing shells of the SB and CUSA (and perhaps even the AAC).

I think everyone's in a holding pattern until the power conferences decide what they want to do, which seems like it won't be until 2023-24 due to contracts. What's the point in all these schools gravitating together if the BIG12 implodes and then turns around and sucks the best teams from it? There's a very good chance that the schools VCU would want to join would be the ones leaving and they'd find themselves as the red-headed stepchild (basketball only) in a FBS football league that spans the country so they could play ECU, Tulane, Tulsa and Temple. I think they'd be very hesitant at this time. They can still get an at large from the A10 and get to keep a lot of the share of money when they do. I don't see the urgency for them. If it looked like the league you suggested could be viable long term then maybe so.

Agreed. I dont see any major realignment moves as being very likley between now and 2023/2024-ish.. The only exception might be a voluntary and cooperative reorganization of the SB and CUSA on strictly regional basis. Such a move would happen at no cost (enty/exit fees suspended) and with nobody being left out. It would just be moving around to make travel cheaper and save everyone money. Nobody would see it as a long term solution---just a temporary band-aid to cut costs until a more permanent solution comes along in the mid-2020's. I give something along those lines maybe a 10% chance of happening at best.

I give it a 0% chance because of the bold type above. There will be no voluntary reorganization. Why would those of us that are growing and having success in the current configuration of C-USA West (LA Tech, North Texas, UTSA) willing vote to change the lineups, and add some programs that we don't want or need? Plus the majority of of the programs being pushed on us are struggling. Although Rice and UTEP are down, I highly doubt they feel a reorganization with ULM, ULL, and Texas State will help their situation.

Of the 4 Sun Belt programs west of the Mississippi, only Arkansas State finished with a winning record last season.

Truth is, I do not see the Texas programs or LA Tech budging, so until we see movement within the P5 conferences, everything will remain as it currently stands. In the 2020's things could change, but even then I think programs will be left out.

IF it happened it would be because your administration would come to the conclusion that the bottom of CUSA East is no different than the bottom of Sunbelt West. Essentially, CUSA West would largely be unchanged. Your crossover games would change. You can fly 1000 Miles to play Charlotte or a few hundred mikes to play UL-M. There may come a time when that makes sense to the NTSU administration, that said, I said it had a 10% chance of happening at best. So, we basically agree that the chances are pretty good it doesn’t happen.

It makes sense but it isn't likely.
Far more likely that some number of CUSA look around and say we would rather play _____ of Sun Belt and not ______ of CUSA and ditch the show.

Doing that ahead of the next CFP deal would be the window of opportunity.
02-28-2018 11:30 AM
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msm96wolf Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
(02-28-2018 10:56 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 09:24 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 08:56 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 06:31 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 05:01 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  No need for a new conference. My feeling is the AAC (in the east) and MW (in the west) would be the place for non-FBS playing high profile basketball programs (outside of the P5) to gravitate toward. Talking maybe 2-4 adds here in the AAC at most. Maybe the same number in the west. Adds that play football are possible---cant say UMass, W Kentucky, or MTSU might not be worth considering. Two of those 3 offer good basketball along with quite competent football programs. NMSU in the west might be worth a look by the MW. This is a very limited strategy at the top level of non-power basketball.

For the rest of the G5, it would be part of any reorganization that might occur if the G5 conferences decided TV money had completely dried up and regional low travel cost conferences were more viable. Such conferences would be primarily based on location---but building solid basketball would probably be a major driver in how they coalesce. These moves would likely not be true "new" conferences---but rather reorganizations of the schools within the existing shells of the SB and CUSA (and perhaps even the AAC).

I think everyone's in a holding pattern until the power conferences decide what they want to do, which seems like it won't be until 2023-24 due to contracts. What's the point in all these schools gravitating together if the BIG12 implodes and then turns around and sucks the best teams from it? There's a very good chance that the schools VCU would want to join would be the ones leaving and they'd find themselves as the red-headed stepchild (basketball only) in a FBS football league that spans the country so they could play ECU, Tulane, Tulsa and Temple. I think they'd be very hesitant at this time. They can still get an at large from the A10 and get to keep a lot of the share of money when they do. I don't see the urgency for them. If it looked like the league you suggested could be viable long term then maybe so.

Agreed. I dont see any major realignment moves as being very likley between now and 2023/2024-ish.. The only exception might be a voluntary and cooperative reorganization of the SB and CUSA on strictly regional basis. Such a move would happen at no cost (enty/exit fees suspended) and with nobody being left out. It would just be moving around to make travel cheaper and save everyone money. Nobody would see it as a long term solution---just a temporary band-aid to cut costs until a more permanent solution comes along in the mid-2020's. I give something along those lines maybe a 10% chance of happening at best.

I give it a 0% chance because of the bold type above. There will be no voluntary reorganization. Why would those of us that are growing and having success in the current configuration of C-USA West (LA Tech, North Texas, UTSA) willing vote to change the lineups, and add some programs that we don't want or need? Plus the majority of of the programs being pushed on us are struggling. Although Rice and UTEP are down, I highly doubt they feel a reorganization with ULM, ULL, and Texas State will help their situation.

Of the 4 Sun Belt programs west of the Mississippi, only Arkansas State finished with a winning record last season.

Truth is, I do not see the Texas programs or LA Tech budging, so until we see movement within the P5 conferences, everything will remain as it currently stands. In the 2020's things could change, but even then I think programs will be left out.

IF it happened it would be because your administration would come to the conclusion that the bottom of CUSA East is no different than the bottom of Sunbelt West. Essentially, CUSA West would largely be unchanged. Your crossover games would change. You can fly 1000 Miles to play Charlotte or a few hundred mikes to play UL-M. There may come a time when that makes sense to the NTSU administration, that said, I said it had a 10% chance of happening at best. So, we basically agree that the chances are pretty good it doesn’t happen.

You would have to wonder if the CUSA wanted to split East vs West, they used the Big East and AAC split would be used as a precedent that both should have an tourney Bid. I could see the tournament move to 72 if this were to happen. Not that I think it will happen, but it does create 3 more at large bids. Creating a new Dayton, Frisco Texas seems to be the new hot spot. 03-wink
02-28-2018 11:33 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
(02-28-2018 11:30 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 10:56 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 09:24 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 08:56 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 06:31 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  I think everyone's in a holding pattern until the power conferences decide what they want to do, which seems like it won't be until 2023-24 due to contracts. What's the point in all these schools gravitating together if the BIG12 implodes and then turns around and sucks the best teams from it? There's a very good chance that the schools VCU would want to join would be the ones leaving and they'd find themselves as the red-headed stepchild (basketball only) in a FBS football league that spans the country so they could play ECU, Tulane, Tulsa and Temple. I think they'd be very hesitant at this time. They can still get an at large from the A10 and get to keep a lot of the share of money when they do. I don't see the urgency for them. If it looked like the league you suggested could be viable long term then maybe so.

Agreed. I dont see any major realignment moves as being very likley between now and 2023/2024-ish.. The only exception might be a voluntary and cooperative reorganization of the SB and CUSA on strictly regional basis. Such a move would happen at no cost (enty/exit fees suspended) and with nobody being left out. It would just be moving around to make travel cheaper and save everyone money. Nobody would see it as a long term solution---just a temporary band-aid to cut costs until a more permanent solution comes along in the mid-2020's. I give something along those lines maybe a 10% chance of happening at best.

I give it a 0% chance because of the bold type above. There will be no voluntary reorganization. Why would those of us that are growing and having success in the current configuration of C-USA West (LA Tech, North Texas, UTSA) willing vote to change the lineups, and add some programs that we don't want or need? Plus the majority of of the programs being pushed on us are struggling. Although Rice and UTEP are down, I highly doubt they feel a reorganization with ULM, ULL, and Texas State will help their situation.

Of the 4 Sun Belt programs west of the Mississippi, only Arkansas State finished with a winning record last season.

Truth is, I do not see the Texas programs or LA Tech budging, so until we see movement within the P5 conferences, everything will remain as it currently stands. In the 2020's things could change, but even then I think programs will be left out.

IF it happened it would be because your administration would come to the conclusion that the bottom of CUSA East is no different than the bottom of Sunbelt West. Essentially, CUSA West would largely be unchanged. Your crossover games would change. You can fly 1000 Miles to play Charlotte or a few hundred mikes to play UL-M. There may come a time when that makes sense to the NTSU administration, that said, I said it had a 10% chance of happening at best. So, we basically agree that the chances are pretty good it doesn’t happen.

It makes sense but it isn't likely.
Far more likely that some number of CUSA look around and say we would rather play _____ of Sun Belt and not ______ of CUSA and ditch the show.

Doing that ahead of the next CFP deal would be the window of opportunity.

Agree. Typically realignment is messy and not entirely cooperative. Schools get left out.
02-28-2018 11:49 AM
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THUNDERGround Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
If CUSA and the SBC decided on a reshuffle, I don't think it'll matter at all what the Big 12 does. If the Big 12 adds Houston and UCF for instance, then the AAC will most likely backfill with UTSA and ODU leaving that conference at 10. No problem.
02-28-2018 12:09 PM
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TrueBlueDrew Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
The only way a mass reshuffle of teams were to be possible is if the BIG12 added 6 teams out of the AAC, and the AAC backfilled with a combination of teams from CUSA and the Sun Belt. Then spots would be open in both conferences and any outliers of each conference could decide if joining the other conference would be better for them.

Just as a hypothetical and not how I think it would actually go down:

BIG12 adds: UCF, USF, Houston, Memphis, Cincy, and Navy

AAC backfills with: UTSA, North Texas, FAU, Arkansas State, Ga State, and ODU

Remaining 10 schools in CUSA: UTEP, Rice, La Tech, USM, UAB, WKU, MT, Marshall, UNCC, FIU

Remaining 8 schools in SBC: TXST, ULM, ULL, South Alabama, Troy, Ga Southern, App, CCU

Marshall, UNCC, MT, and FIU bolt for the SBC while TXST, ULM, and ULL bolt for CUSA.

NMSU joins CUSA to make 10 teams while JMU or Liberty joins the SBC to make 10 teams. Both conferences are then pretty regional.

Again, not how I actually expect it to go down.
02-28-2018 12:26 PM
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McKinney Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
(02-28-2018 12:26 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  The only way a mass reshuffle of teams were to be possible is if the BIG12 added 6 teams out of the AAC, and the AAC backfilled with a combination of teams from CUSA and the Sun Belt. Then spots would be open in both conferences and any outliers of each conference could decide if joining the other conference would be better for them.

Just as a hypothetical and not how I think it would actually go down:

BIG12 adds: UCF, USF, Houston, Memphis, Cincy, and Navy

AAC backfills with: UTSA, North Texas, FAU, Arkansas State, Ga State, and ODU

Remaining 10 schools in CUSA: UTEP, Rice, La Tech, USM, UAB, WKU, MT, Marshall, UNCC, FIU

Remaining 8 schools in SBC: TXST, ULM, ULL, South Alabama, Troy, Ga Southern, App, CCU

Marshall, UNCC, MT, and FIU bolt for the SBC while TXST, ULM, and ULL bolt for CUSA.

NMSU joins CUSA to make 10 teams while JMU or Liberty joins the SBC to make 10 teams. Both conferences are then pretty regional.

Again, not how I actually expect it to go down.

I don't think any of the service academies will join a P5 for the sole fact that their players must serve before going to the NFL. There's a lot of tradition with Navy (though not any official rivalries with any Big-XII teams), but the serve-before-play rule could be tough.
02-28-2018 12:32 PM
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Post: #75
RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
Or, the P5 could reorganize into four 16-team conferences plus Notre Dame as an independent. There are 65 P5 teams. This would dissolve the Big 12 and enable the champion of each conference to get into the playoff (unless Notre Dame was top 4) and unless the playoff goes to 8.
(This post was last modified: 02-28-2018 03:21 PM by THUNDERGround.)
02-28-2018 03:21 PM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
(02-28-2018 12:26 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  The only way a mass reshuffle of teams were to be possible is if the BIG12 added 6 teams out of the AAC, and the AAC backfilled with a combination of teams from CUSA and the Sun Belt. Then spots would be open in both conferences and any outliers of each conference could decide if joining the other conference would be better for them.

Just as a hypothetical and not how I think it would actually go down:

BIG12 adds: UCF, USF, Houston, Memphis, Cincy, and Navy

AAC backfills with: UTSA, North Texas, FAU, Arkansas State, Ga State, and ODU

Remaining 10 schools in CUSA: UTEP, Rice, La Tech, USM, UAB, WKU, MT, Marshall, UNCC, FIU

Remaining 8 schools in SBC: TXST, ULM, ULL, South Alabama, Troy, Ga Southern, App, CCU

Marshall, UNCC, MT, and FIU bolt for the SBC while TXST, ULM, and ULL bolt for CUSA.

NMSU joins CUSA to make 10 teams while JMU or Liberty joins the SBC to make 10 teams. Both conferences are then pretty regional.

Again, not how I actually expect it to go down.

If the AAC loses that many you might as well include them in the reorganization.
02-28-2018 05:35 PM
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Post: #77
RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
The Big 12, or any P5 league, could give a rat's behind on how they impact anyone in the G5, so why should CUSA & the Sunbelt wait on the Big 12 to do anything? Benson & MacLeod need to do what is in the best interest of the schools in their conferences.
02-28-2018 05:38 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
A C-USA/SBC reorganization is going to require 10 if not 11 C-USA schools deciding that they are better off welcoming in geographically friendly SBC schools and bidding farewell to their conference mates that are more distant.

Both sides are also going to have to absorb SBC schools that aren't all that alluring--ULM, Coastal Carolina, Troy...
02-28-2018 05:56 PM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
(02-28-2018 05:38 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  The Big 12, or any P5 league, could give a rat's behind on how they impact anyone in the G5, so why should CUSA & the Sunbelt wait on the Big 12 to do anything? Benson & MacLeod need to do what is in the best interest of the schools in their conferences.

Because **** rolls downhill. If key member's of the B12 defect it's my guess they might lose P5(4) status in the next contract but would still have enough numbers and clout to raid lower conferences. This will open up both opportunities and challenges for our schools. If the AAC is not hit too hard they may be able to lure schools out of the Sun Belt and CUSA still. If they get hit hard and lose 6 or so of their best schools at once and the rest are scattered across the country then those schools might be interested in joining the regional reorganization. In short we could be proactive and still have all our plans dashed by the powers above us or we can have behind the scene meetings and feel each other out so when the next shuffle begins we'll know generally which way we want to move. Also, I could see that time as being ideal in possibly forming a new conference. The CFP contract will be renewed and I think the NCAA would have to be sympathetic to providing wavers if the continued motion of the big schools for the purpose of consolidating TV money amongst themselves continues to splinter the lesser conferences. A new conference might or might not be necessary to reshuffle the remaining schools in the G5 but I think asking for it in light of movement that's out of your control is more likely to be accepted than right now out of the blue so to speak.
02-28-2018 05:57 PM
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Post: #80
RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
(02-28-2018 05:35 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 12:26 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  The only way a mass reshuffle of teams were to be possible is if the BIG12 added 6 teams out of the AAC, and the AAC backfilled with a combination of teams from CUSA and the Sun Belt. Then spots would be open in both conferences and any outliers of each conference could decide if joining the other conference would be better for them.

Just as a hypothetical and not how I think it would actually go down:

BIG12 adds: UCF, USF, Houston, Memphis, Cincy, and Navy

AAC backfills with: UTSA, North Texas, FAU, Arkansas State, Ga State, and ODU

Remaining 10 schools in CUSA: UTEP, Rice, La Tech, USM, UAB, WKU, MT, Marshall, UNCC, FIU

Remaining 8 schools in SBC: TXST, ULM, ULL, South Alabama, Troy, Ga Southern, App, CCU

Marshall, UNCC, MT, and FIU bolt for the SBC while TXST, ULM, and ULL bolt for CUSA.

NMSU joins CUSA to make 10 teams while JMU or Liberty joins the SBC to make 10 teams. Both conferences are then pretty regional.

Again, not how I actually expect it to go down.

If the AAC loses that many you might as well include them in the reorganization.

The SBC and CUSA need to reorganize along geographic lines. If any other Big 12 or AAC openings occur, deal with it then. Until that time, if it ever comes, make both conferences more geographically compatible.

West - SBC

Louisiana, Rice, TX State, UTSA, UTEP, NM State
N. Texas, Ark State, LA Tech, UAB, MTSU, S. Miss

East - CUSA

Marshall, WKU, ODU, Charlotte, App State, GA State
GA Southern, Coastal, FIU, FAU, USA, Troy
03-05-2018 03:35 PM
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