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Latest G5 Realignment article
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cmett003 Offline
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Post: #1
Latest G5 Realignment article
https://pilotonline.com/sports/college/o...8d137.html

I would go along with ODU being in the A-10 and a regional FBS football conference. Although the A-10 has some bottom feeders for basketball too. Dump Fordham, La Salle, St bonny and Duquense and add Old Dominion, WKU, MTSU and Charlotte (I know they are down, but will be back). This would be a hell of a basketball conference! And everyone has a rival (except St. Louis)

Basketball (new A-10)
Old Dominion
VCU
Richmond
Rhode Island
Western Kentucky
MTSU
UMass
Davidson
Charlotte
St. Joes
St. Louis
George Mason
Dayton
George Washington
(This post was last modified: 02-23-2018 02:21 PM by cmett003.)
02-23-2018 02:21 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
SMH.

Quote:Conference USA has been good for ODU in many ways, but it's apparent that the league should not remain its long-term home. The school should explore joining with other schools to form a football-only league, with those schools playing other sports in other leagues.

This article is a waste of newspaper space. The author of this article is a sportswriter whose beat is college sports. He really should know better than to write this, because he should already know that NCAA rules do not permit football-only conferences at the FBS level.
02-23-2018 02:33 PM
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cmett003 Offline
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RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
(02-23-2018 02:33 PM)Wedge Wrote:  SMH.

Quote:Conference USA has been good for ODU in many ways, but it's apparent that the league should not remain its long-term home. The school should explore joining with other schools to form a football-only league, with those schools playing other sports in other leagues.

This article is a waste of newspaper space. The author of this article is a sportswriter whose beat is college sports. He really should know better than to write this, because he should already know that NCAA rules do not permit football-only conferences at the FBS level.

The NCAA rules do not allow P5 teams to cheat at every turn either, but that seems to happen weekly.
(This post was last modified: 02-23-2018 02:40 PM by cmett003.)
02-23-2018 02:36 PM
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Hokie4Skins Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
(02-23-2018 02:33 PM)Wedge Wrote:  SMH.

Quote:Conference USA has been good for ODU in many ways, but it's apparent that the league should not remain its long-term home. The school should explore joining with other schools to form a football-only league, with those schools playing other sports in other leagues.

This article is a waste of newspaper space. The author of this article is a sportswriter whose beat is college sports. He really should know better than to write this, because he should already know that NCAA rules do not permit football-only conferences at the FBS level.

Agreed, I'm surprised he didn't know better. Minium is usually on top of things in his columns.
02-23-2018 02:37 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
It's not a bad idea though for some of these schools to get back to more regional conferences.

They should be all-sports leagues, of course, and maybe some hybrids where some schools don't sponsor football, but leagues should be regional. I think he actually makes a fairly good case for that.
02-23-2018 02:42 PM
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Bogg Offline
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RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
He's not wrong, but football is the proverbial anchor on the AD - I don't believe the CFP contract allows for the creation and inclusion of new conferences, so they're stuck unless CUSA and the Sun Belt agree to cooperatively reshuffle the deck (and the Sun Belt seems much less unhappy than CUSA). ODU just kind of has to hope and pray that UConn goes BE+indy and opens up a spot in AAC East.
02-23-2018 03:10 PM
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mturn017 Offline
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RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
(02-23-2018 02:33 PM)Wedge Wrote:  SMH.

Quote:Conference USA has been good for ODU in many ways, but it's apparent that the league should not remain its long-term home. The school should explore joining with other schools to form a football-only league, with those schools playing other sports in other leagues.

This article is a waste of newspaper space. The author of this article is a sportswriter whose beat is college sports. He really should know better than to write this, because he should already know that NCAA rules do not permit football-only conferences at the FBS level.

Cyniclone said this on our board as well but I didn't think it was the case. If there is large scale realignment in the G5 ranks we should see about appealing this rule. FBS leagues are going to be more spread out but there's no point in sending all your sports halfway across the country.
02-23-2018 03:23 PM
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ark30inf Offline
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Latest G5 Realignment article
This sort of regional conference hankering seems to have more traction amongst fan bases of recent FCS move-ups more than others. I seem to hear it more out of App State, ODU, TXST, etc.

Geography doesn't mean much to me. I'd rather travel two states to a good sports school that has good fan support than travel down the street to play in a half-empty stadium.

If the AAC asked ODU to join, they probably wouldn't complain about travel to Tulsa and Houston and be hankering for a bus league then.

So its REALLY more about who they are with than how far it is.

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02-23-2018 03:44 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
I'd like to see the Sunbelt, C-USA and a few choice others (NMSU, Liberty, JMU) reorganized into 3 10-team conferences.
02-23-2018 03:48 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
(02-23-2018 03:44 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  This sort of regional conference hankering seems to have more traction amongst fan bases of recent FCS move-ups more than others. I seem to hear it more out of App State, ODU, TXST, etc.

Geography doesn't mean much to me. I'd rather travel two states to a good sports school that has good fan support than travel down the street to play in a half-empty stadium.

If the AAC asked ODU to join, they probably wouldn't complain about travel to Tulsa and Houston and be hankering for a bus league then.

So its REALLY more about who they are with than how far it is.

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The funny thing is - this is not really a regional conference. Sure, it's got 5 VA/DC schools, and St. Joe's, Charlotte, & Davidson are close to VA (but not to each other).
But the rest is just as far-flung as any other conference.

Way North: UMass & Rhode Island
Way West: MTSU, WKU, Dayton, and St. Louis
02-23-2018 04:10 PM
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arkstfan Online
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Post: #11
RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
To be technical.

The NCAA has no prohibition on football only leagues in FBS. What it does have is a rule that provides if you want your FBS conference to have an FBS seat at the table in voting it must be an all sports league.

The writer almost has a decent idea but doesn't understand how to work within the system.

All you need is 8 FBS schools to be part of your all sports conference, you can have as many more football members as you desire.

So you can have 12 members for football with four of them being in other leagues.
02-23-2018 04:48 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
(02-23-2018 04:48 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  To be technical.

The NCAA has no prohibition on football only leagues in FBS. What it does have is a rule that provides if you want your FBS conference to have an FBS seat at the table in voting it must be an all sports league.

The writer almost has a decent idea but doesn't understand how to work within the system.

All you need is 8 FBS schools to be part of your all sports conference, you can have as many more football members as you desire.

So you can have 12 members for football with four of them being in other leagues.

Sure, you could have a football-only grouping that is, in reality, a group of independent FBS programs with a scheduling agreement that might deem the winner of their annual round-robin a conference champ. The schools he lists could start that now if they wanted to; I'm sure NMSU would also love to participate in that scheduling agreement, and they'd all be assured of 4 FBS home games each season. The football-only group would be free to negotiate agreements with bowl games just as a recognized FBS conference can.

But: No FBS conference recognition from the NCAA, no opportunity to be chosen for the G5 "access" place in the CFP bowls, and none of the CFP payouts given to FBS conferences, only the much smaller amounts currently paid to non-Notre Dame FBS independent teams. And, though this may not matter to any of them, this football-only group can't serve as the vehicle used by a program to reclassify from FCS to FBS.
02-23-2018 07:24 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
(02-23-2018 04:48 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  To be technical.

The NCAA has no prohibition on football only leagues in FBS. What it does have is a rule that provides if you want your FBS conference to have an FBS seat at the table in voting it must be an all sports league.

The writer almost has a decent idea but doesn't understand how to work within the system.

All you need is 8 FBS schools to be part of your all sports conference, you can have as many more football members as you desire.

So you can have 12 members for football with four of them being in other leagues.

But the main attraction for most schools would be to play in better basketball league. So, only 4 schools would get that benefit and the other 8 would likely end up in a worse league than they are now. Its not really an atractive option for the 8 all sports schools that make the FBS football league possible. What might be better is to create a relatively tight east coast FBS all-sports conference that takes the better eastern basketball schools from CUSA and creates an 8 team league thats good enough to attract a couple of A-10 schools to join as basketball onlys.

UMass
ODU
Western Kentucky
MTSU
Charlotte
Marshall
Georgia Southern
Appy St

May that limited travel and solid basketball is enough to lure a few nearby quality basketball schools in A10 to join. Maybe VCU and one other. The football wouldnt be bad and would offer low cost travel and some decent potential rivalries.
(This post was last modified: 02-23-2018 07:33 PM by Attackcoog.)
02-23-2018 07:30 PM
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bullet Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
And the AAC and MWC are happy the way they are. The MAC is regional. This is really just a CUSA and Sun Belt issue.
02-23-2018 07:31 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
(02-23-2018 07:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  And the AAC and MWC are happy the way they are. The MAC is regional. This is really just a CUSA and Sun Belt issue.

lol...I dont think UConn is "happy" with where they are---but I think they are willing to sit tight until the value of the next TV deal is known. My guess is the future home of UConn sports will hinge on the next AAC contract.
(This post was last modified: 02-23-2018 07:37 PM by Attackcoog.)
02-23-2018 07:35 PM
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Side Show Joe Offline
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RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
Minimum is a no talent hack. He wrote a garbage realignment article last off-season too.

He are the facts...

ODU and any other unhappy program don't not have enough votes to force a realignment. If the ODU leadership is so unhappy in C-USA, they are free to hit the bricks. Just leave that exit fee at the door on your way out. C-USA has 14 programs, we won't even back-fill.
02-23-2018 07:57 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
ODU playing Indy and putting Olympic sports in the A10 seems viable to me and I've said as much before.

I just think when ODU decided to make the move to CUSA they thought they were getting into something more like what the AAC is today, something thought of more as a major conference.

They might be able to handle indy better than some with AAC schools willing to play. They could even schedule some MAC to meet the demands of scheduling.
02-23-2018 09:19 PM
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ChooChoo Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
(02-23-2018 07:30 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-23-2018 04:48 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  To be technical.

The NCAA has no prohibition on football only leagues in FBS. What it does have is a rule that provides if you want your FBS conference to have an FBS seat at the table in voting it must be an all sports league.

The writer almost has a decent idea but doesn't understand how to work within the system.

All you need is 8 FBS schools to be part of your all sports conference, you can have as many more football members as you desire.

So you can have 12 members for football with four of them being in other leagues.

But the main attraction for most schools would be to play in better basketball league. So, only 4 schools would get that benefit and the other 8 would likely end up in a worse league than they are now. Its not really an atractive option for the 8 all sports schools that make the FBS football league possible. What might be better is to create a relatively tight east coast FBS all-sports conference that takes the better eastern basketball schools from CUSA and creates an 8 team league thats good enough to attract a couple of A-10 schools to join as basketball onlys.

UMass
ODU
Western Kentucky
MTSU
Charlotte
Marshall
Georgia Southern
Appy St

May that limited travel and solid basketball is enough to lure a few nearby quality basketball schools in A10 to join. Maybe VCU and one other. The football wouldnt be bad and would offer low cost travel and some decent potential rivalries.

My take on splitting the AAC, C-USA, & SBC into 4 regional conferences, complete with re-branding and strengthened basketball pedigrees:

Eastern Athletic Conference (defacto A10)
NORTH
UMass
UConn
Army*
Temple
Buffalo
---------
Vermont*
Rhode Island*

SOUTH
Navy*
Old Dominion
East Carolina
Charlotte
Florida Atlantic
----------
George Mason*
VCU*
----------------------------------

American Athletic Conference
WEST
SMU
Houston
Tulane
Southern Miss
Memphis
---------
Wichita State*

EAST
Cincinnati
UAB
Georgia State
UCF
USF
---------
Dayton*
--------------------------------

Southwestern Conference
WEST
New Mexico State
UTEP
UTSA
Texas State
North Texas
---------------
UTA*

EAST
Tulsa
Arkansas State
Louisiana Tech
Louisiana
Rice
---------------
Little Rock*
--------------------------------

C-USA
NORTH
JMU
Marshall
WKU
MTSU
Appalachian State
-----------------
FGCU*

SOUTH
Coastal Carolina
Georgia Southern
Troy
South Alabama
FIU
-------------------
College of Charleston*
------------------------------------

MAC
EAST
Kent State
Akron
Ohio
Miami,OH
Bowling
Toledo

WEST
EMU
CMU
WMU
Illinois State #
Ball State
NIU
02-24-2018 12:04 AM
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Stugray2 Offline
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RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
I think the article writer fails to understand the difficulty in what he is suggesting, given the football bias of FBS. But in FCS you can and do see Football only conferences (e.g., Pioneer League, Missouri Valley Football Conference). It would require a rule change at FBS level, and the existing G5 would be against it, because all realignment would happen to them (no incentive to leave a power conference, as they are also major conferences for Basketball).

But the idea has merit, especially if you project ahead a few years as football's power wanes. The attendance for FBS peaked back in 2010, and were it not for the SEC rising for several years after the peak before beginning to slip, the drop would have been even more noticeable. We have seen G5 TV contracts shrivel in value as the P5 dominate ever more of the money. Recruits see than and the last three years we have seen the NFL draft tilt 70% to those 65 schools, 90% of rounds 1 and 2. If anything, it's tilting even more toward these schools. But the costs of keeping up with the Jones is rising far faster than revenues at G5 schools, including the American, which are essentially flat. There is no $1.5M per school built in increase in media revenue, no network revenue, etc, so it all has to come from borrowing and heavy subsidies. UConn is about to enter a period where they are going to have to cut athletic expenses several millions, and others are about to hit that wall as well. A really large school in a state with more applicants than spots, such as UCF or USF, could tack on $100 fee per student and raise $5M more and so can keep pace for another 5 to 7 years. But more constrained programs like Memphis, Cincy, Temple, and ECU, even Boise State, can't do that. Heck ECU fills the stands, but most of those pay next to nothing (Students, school in the middle of nowhere) and only generate $4M in gate for ALL athletics (by comparison Rutgers, the weakest supported B1G school gets nearly $15M in gate revenue with less than full stands).

The addition of Wichita State showed that even the American, for all the propaganda (aka "marketing") about football, realized they could generate more revenue from Basketball than from any additional football school. This is a reality for many conferences.

I could easily see UConn (to get in the Big East and turn around their Basketball fortunes), UMass (need a FB conference as they are A10), ODU (CUSA is not what they wanted, A10 looks appealing, but FB in the way) would jump at something like this. Liberty is another that would work for. ODU is not the only CUSA member upset with where they are. USM would want to move, although where they put their Basketball is anyone's guess. UAB flirted with the Missouri Valley for Basketball when Football was temporarily halted. So there is interest. Football only option might make a move by JMU attractive, as they are another potential A10 member along with ODU. I'm not sure the SBC is in much risk, but CUSA definitely would be.

I file this concept under the "revisit in the near future" (i.e., maybe 3-4 years from now) to see if the conditions have changed, especially if football's decline accelerates. (FWIW, I think football has another decade before the decline starts to have truly big significance).
(This post was last modified: 02-25-2018 04:18 PM by Stugray2.)
02-24-2018 03:13 AM
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arkstfan Online
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Post: #20
RE: Latest G5 Realignment article
(02-23-2018 07:57 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  Minimum is a no talent hack. He wrote a garbage realignment article last off-season too.

He are the facts...

ODU and any other unhappy program don't not have enough votes to force a realignment. If the ODU leadership is so unhappy in C-USA, they are free to hit the bricks. Just leave that exit fee at the door on your way out. C-USA has 14 programs, we won't even back-fill.

He also broke the story that CUSA was taking a big hair cut on the TV rights and when Slive floated 16 for CUSA wrote about MTSU and ODU wanting JMU.

The evidence suggest that Wood Selig is very open in his discussions with him.
02-24-2018 10:36 PM
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