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Can the G5 BS its way to the top?
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Can the G5 BS its way to the top?
In my Division A/Division B system, the Division A winner would have an autobid to a CFP bowl.

West Division A (Fiesta Bowl)
South Division A (Peach Bowl)
North Division A (Cotton Bowl)

Where I think your UCF example is falling short is if they were in South Division B in year 1 they are very likely not going 0-12. Further in year 2 they aren't going 6-7 in Division B they are probably going undefeated.

Third they wouldn't start in Division B anyways as it would use a 4 year historical average of team ranking for selection whereby UCF's 2013 season probably makes the cut to put them in Division A plus overall higher rankings as a member of the AAC.
02-24-2018 03:10 PM
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ark30inf Offline
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Can the G5 BS its way to the top?
Either retain FBS and continue to fight for equal access for all FBS conferences....or....split completely in all sports and go as two completely unaffiliated leagues that don't play each other.

No more of this "some animals are more equal than other animals" nonsense. No more angling for 1 playoff spot to their 7 while pretending to all be in FBS the same. "Together but unequal" is not something to strive for.

We are either one league that behaves like a sports league or we are two leagues under two organizations that don't play each other that compete for the same market (where you are not allowed to engage in cartel or monopolistic behavior).

They can play each other and figure out who gets 8 home games. They can figure out how to do midweek baseball. They can figure out which bowl games to keep and how to get Vandy an Indiana into them without us.

I'd much rather stay as one league with all conference champs in the playoffs. yhey can keep the money, tv contracts, buy games, etc. All I ask is equal playoff access for all conferences. That is NOT too much to ask for an alleged sports league...in fact its the minimum necessary to even BE a real sports league.

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02-24-2018 03:24 PM
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McKinney Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Can the G5 BS its way to the top?
(02-24-2018 03:10 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  In my Division A/Division B system, the Division A winner would have an autobid to a CFP bowl.

West Division A (Fiesta Bowl)
South Division A (Peach Bowl)
North Division A (Cotton Bowl)

Where I think your UCF example is falling short is if they were in South Division B in year 1 they are very likely not going 0-12. Further in year 2 they aren't going 6-7 in Division B they are probably going undefeated.

Third they wouldn't start in Division B anyways as it would use a 4 year historical average of team ranking for selection whereby UCF's 2013 season probably makes the cut to put them in Division A plus overall higher rankings as a member of the AAC.

So forget UCF, let's say some random Division B team goes undefeated and has a couple of good wins (maybe ranked, maybe not idk) in non-conference... now they're the highest rated G5 team because no Division A team is undefeated.

If it's a 4 year average a spectacular once-in-a-lifetime season like that might not be enough for them to get promoted, they don't get to play in a major bowl, they probably lose their coach after that season to a Division A or P5 team, and as a Division B school they're less likely to be able to attract a coach that can sustain the success.

Also, how would Division A and B work for basketball? Could you be a Division A football team but a Division B basketball team? Would non-football schools be included in this 3 region Division A and B structure for basketball?

I love the 3 NY6 bowl bids btw.
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2018 03:44 PM by McKinney.)
02-24-2018 03:43 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Can the G5 BS its way to the top?
(02-24-2018 03:43 PM)McKinney Wrote:  
(02-24-2018 03:10 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  In my Division A/Division B system, the Division A winner would have an autobid to a CFP bowl.

West Division A (Fiesta Bowl)
South Division A (Peach Bowl)
North Division A (Cotton Bowl)

Where I think your UCF example is falling short is if they were in South Division B in year 1 they are very likely not going 0-12. Further in year 2 they aren't going 6-7 in Division B they are probably going undefeated.

Third they wouldn't start in Division B anyways as it would use a 4 year historical average of team ranking for selection whereby UCF's 2013 season probably makes the cut to put them in Division A plus overall higher rankings as a member of the AAC.

So forget UCF, let's say some random Division B team goes undefeated and has a couple of good wins (maybe ranked, maybe not idk) in non-conference... now they're the highest rated G5 team because no Division A team is undefeated.

If it's a 4 year average a spectacular once-in-a-lifetime season like that might not be enough for them to get promoted, they don't get to play in a major bowl, they probably lose their coach after that season to a Division A or P5 team, and as a Division B school they're less likely to be able to attract a coach that can sustain the success.

Also, how would Division A and B work for basketball? Could you be a Division A football team but a Division B basketball team? Would non-football schools be included in this 3 region Division A and B structure for basketball?

I love the 3 NY6 bowl bids btw.

I'd say everyone would stay in their traditional basketball conference whatever that may be.

They wouldn't have to be in a G5 conference to be part of the national coast-2-coast TV deal just a member of FBS.
02-24-2018 03:52 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Can the G5 BS its way to the top?
(02-24-2018 02:28 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-24-2018 11:36 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  I've said the Holiday, Sun, Independence, Liberty all have rich G5 traditions but are now P5 vs. P5 bowl games.

Could the G5 create a new set of games for high level competition? Do these bowl games become P5 games in the future? Two new mid tier bowl games on the level of the Holiday, Sun, Independence, Liberty?

Pirate Bowl: Greenville, NC. Takes the two highest rated non-CFP programs from the East and places them into a bowl game.

Example this year: #24 Memphis vs. #30 Florida Atlantic

Tomato Bowl: Fresno, CA. Takes the two highest rated non-CFP programs from the West/Texas and places them into a bowl game.

Example this year: #25 Boise St. vs. #52 Houston

Play the games as a double header on January 2nd. Obviously this favors the AAC which is the highest rated G5 conference but at least it would provide additional mid tier bowl slots. It also follows the Holiday, Sun, Independence, Liberty model of bowls played in communities with strong local support for college football and with bigger G5 names should fill the stands.

The games would also be open to BYU, Army, UMass or whomever else had a big year.

So, here is the problem. There really isnt a "G5". Thats just a derogotory name for the 5 conferences that dont have a major bowl at the end of the season. Worse yet for any G5 marketing---you have one conference already running a marketing campaign primarily designed to separate itself from the other 4 members of that "group". I dont see the AAC participating in any marketing campaign for the G5.

So--where DOES it make sense to work together. Does spending money on a marketing campaign make sense? Frankly, I dont think so. My preference would be to take some of the CFP G5 payout, which is about 90 million, and split off about 10 miilion a year to create a Champions Bowl Fund. Distribute the other 80 million just as we currently do.

If we started next year, by the time the next bowl cycle began, the G5 would have a 20 million dollar fund to create 3 new bowls that would provide a suitable guaranteed landing spot for every G5 champion along with a 10 milllion dollar stream of income to keep the games going. Frankly, there is no reason to think these games wouldnt be self sufficient (or nearly so) once they start up funds are invested. So, its likely the 10 million dollar annual contribution from the G5 could be reduced or eliminated once the games get started.

Here's how it works--

Top ranked G5 champ---access bowl

2nd ranked G5 champ---new G5 bowl vs #3-#5 selection for a P5 (1 mil for G5/3 mil for P5 participant)

3rd ranked G5 champ---new G5 bowl vs #3-#5 selection for a P5 (1 mil for G5/3 mil for P5 participant)

4th ranked G5 vs 5th ranked G5--(1 million each in new G5 bowl).

Now winning your conference means something more than going to the same quality bowl as the 5th place conference finisher in the same conference. Thats a huge difference because it gives your conference race a context that makes it important to more casual viewers. If you want, use some of that 20 million dollar fund to market and advertise the Champions Bowl Series. Sell them to someone other than ESPN so you can get a good after Christmas play date---say on New Years or maybe during the week leading up to the CFP National Championship Game. Thats how you raise the G5 profile among the more casual college football viewers.

I'm on board with something like that as a way to entice the Holiday, Sun, Independence, Liberty ect. back to the G5 camp.

G5 needs to come up with something creative and proactive if it wants to stay in the game IMO.
02-24-2018 04:05 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Can the G5 BS its way to the top?
I think the answer for the G5 is to play football at a different time of the year. Make G5 football a spring sport, so you don't have to compete with the P5 for eyeballs. The trick will be finding a time for your 16 team championship tournament that doesn't have to compete with NBA playoffs, Stanley Cup, and golf.
02-24-2018 04:15 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Can the G5 BS its way to the top?
(02-24-2018 04:15 PM)ken d Wrote:  I think the answer for the G5 is to play football at a different time of the year. Make G5 football a spring sport, so you don't have to compete with the P5 for eyeballs. The trick will be finding a time for your 16 team championship tournament that doesn't have to compete with NBA playoffs, Stanley Cup, and golf.

No.
02-24-2018 04:24 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Can the G5 BS its way to the top?
(02-24-2018 04:15 PM)ken d Wrote:  I think the answer for the G5 is to play football at a different time of the year. Make G5 football a spring sport, so you don't have to compete with the P5 for eyeballs. The trick will be finding a time for your 16 team championship tournament that doesn't have to compete with NBA playoffs, Stanley Cup, and golf.

There is a red line in never going to happen and you've just crossed it.
02-24-2018 04:30 PM
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McKinney Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Can the G5 BS its way to the top?
(02-24-2018 03:52 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  I'd say everyone would stay in their traditional basketball conference whatever that may be.

They wouldn't have to be in a G5 conference to be part of the national coast-2-coast TV deal just a member of FBS.

I'm just thinking that currently Gonzaga, Saint Mary's, Rhode Island, Loyola-Chicago, Davidson, and maybe Vermont are worth a lot more to a national coast-to-coast TV deal in basketball than the vast majority of G5 schools. Also, how do Wichita State, UT Arlington, and UALR fit in as non-football members of FBS conferences?
02-24-2018 04:39 PM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Can the G5 BS its way to the top?
(02-24-2018 04:15 PM)ken d Wrote:  I think the answer for the G5 is to play football at a different time of the year. Make G5 football a spring sport, so you don't have to compete with the P5 for eyeballs. The trick will be finding a time for your 16 team championship tournament that doesn't have to compete with NBA playoffs, Stanley Cup, and golf.
Probably not. But that sort of thinking is what you would need to carve out your new league.

G5 would have to actually cooperate and market itself as a league. Probably as real college football as opposed to a semi-pro P5.

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02-24-2018 04:39 PM
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McKinney Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Can the G5 BS its way to the top?
(02-24-2018 04:15 PM)ken d Wrote:  I think the answer for the G5 is to play football at a different time of the year. Make G5 football a spring sport, so you don't have to compete with the P5 for eyeballs. The trick will be finding a time for your 16 team championship tournament that doesn't have to compete with NBA playoffs, Stanley Cup, and golf.

Excuse me, WTF? And what about the G5 teams with historical and regional rivals with P5 teams? What about the fact that would eliminate almost ALL NFL draft picks from G5? What about the fact that some schools have less than 5 weeks between the end of college basketball and the end of spring semester?
02-24-2018 04:49 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Can the G5 BS its way to the top?
(02-24-2018 04:39 PM)McKinney Wrote:  
(02-24-2018 03:52 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  I'd say everyone would stay in their traditional basketball conference whatever that may be.

They wouldn't have to be in a G5 conference to be part of the national coast-2-coast TV deal just a member of FBS.

I'm just thinking that currently Gonzaga, Saint Mary's, Rhode Island, Loyola-Chicago, Davidson, and maybe Vermont are worth a lot more to a national coast-to-coast TV deal in basketball than the vast majority of G5 schools. Also, how do Wichita State, UT Arlington, and UALR fit in as non-football members of FBS conferences?

That is their problem.
02-24-2018 04:59 PM
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McKinney Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Can the G5 BS its way to the top?
(02-24-2018 04:39 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  Probably as real college football as opposed to a semi-pro P5.

To use college basketball terms you mean like a "gym-league"? I don't think that'd fly with the ECU, Houston, Memphis, UCF, SDSU, etc. of the world.
02-24-2018 05:04 PM
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McKinney Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Can the G5 BS its way to the top?
(02-24-2018 04:59 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(02-24-2018 04:39 PM)McKinney Wrote:  
(02-24-2018 03:52 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  I'd say everyone would stay in their traditional basketball conference whatever that may be.

They wouldn't have to be in a G5 conference to be part of the national coast-2-coast TV deal just a member of FBS.

I'm just thinking that currently Gonzaga, Saint Mary's, Rhode Island, Loyola-Chicago, Davidson, and maybe Vermont are worth a lot more to a national coast-to-coast TV deal in basketball than the vast majority of G5 schools. Also, how do Wichita State, UT Arlington, and UALR fit in as non-football members of FBS conferences?

That is their problem.

I'm sorry, that's just pig-headed. What national TV network is going to sign a non-power-conference contract that doesn't include some of the best non-power-conference teams college basketball has to offer?
02-24-2018 05:10 PM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Can the G5 BS its way to the top?
(02-24-2018 05:04 PM)McKinney Wrote:  
(02-24-2018 04:39 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  Probably as real college football as opposed to a semi-pro P5.

To use college basketball terms you mean like a "gym-league"? I don't think that'd fly with the ECU, Houston, Memphis, UCF, SDSU, etc. of the world.

If the P5 splits off then they wouldn't have a choice now would they?

Maybe the P5 would let them tag along without a playoff spot and for buy games though.

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02-24-2018 05:10 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Can the G5 BS its way to the top?
(02-24-2018 04:49 PM)McKinney Wrote:  
(02-24-2018 04:15 PM)ken d Wrote:  I think the answer for the G5 is to play football at a different time of the year. Make G5 football a spring sport, so you don't have to compete with the P5 for eyeballs. The trick will be finding a time for your 16 team championship tournament that doesn't have to compete with NBA playoffs, Stanley Cup, and golf.

Excuse me, WTF? And what about the G5 teams with historical and regional rivals with P5 teams? What about the fact that would eliminate almost ALL NFL draft picks from G5? What about the fact that some schools have less than 5 weeks between the end of college basketball and the end of spring semester?

He is mocking us. He doesn't like the AAC or schools that don't play in the semi pro 5. He got defensive on my ESPN thread. He's very pro ESPN
02-24-2018 05:35 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Can the G5 BS its way to the top?
(02-24-2018 05:35 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-24-2018 04:49 PM)McKinney Wrote:  
(02-24-2018 04:15 PM)ken d Wrote:  I think the answer for the G5 is to play football at a different time of the year. Make G5 football a spring sport, so you don't have to compete with the P5 for eyeballs. The trick will be finding a time for your 16 team championship tournament that doesn't have to compete with NBA playoffs, Stanley Cup, and golf.

Excuse me, WTF? And what about the G5 teams with historical and regional rivals with P5 teams? What about the fact that would eliminate almost ALL NFL draft picks from G5? What about the fact that some schools have less than 5 weeks between the end of college basketball and the end of spring semester?

He is mocking us. He doesn't like the AAC or schools that don't play in the semi pro 5. He got defensive on my ESPN thread. He's very pro ESPN

Of course I am mocking. Who wouldn't mock a strategy to try to trick fans into thinking the G5 isn't something they have rejected for years? Such a premise is, in itself, a mockery. I never thought for a second this thread was meant to be taken seriously. Just like I didn't take your anti ESPN screed seriously.

"Pro ESPN"? That's a real knee slapper.
02-24-2018 06:58 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Can the G5 BS its way to the top?
(02-24-2018 04:15 PM)ken d Wrote:  I think the answer for the G5 is to play football at a different time of the year. Make G5 football a spring sport, so you don't have to compete with the P5 for eyeballs. The trick will be finding a time for your 16 team championship tournament that doesn't have to compete with NBA playoffs, Stanley Cup, and golf.

No. That makes G5 football even more irrelevent than FCS. May as well have them switch to female players dressed in bikinis. The problem with G5 football isnt when its played. The problem isnt the quality of play. The problem is access to the major post season destinations. Fix that and you fix G5 football.
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2018 07:08 PM by Attackcoog.)
02-24-2018 07:08 PM
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msm96wolf Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Can the G5 BS its way to the top?
You need a network willing to pay for the product.
02-24-2018 07:39 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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RE: Can the G5 BS its way to the top?
(02-24-2018 06:58 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(02-24-2018 05:35 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-24-2018 04:49 PM)McKinney Wrote:  
(02-24-2018 04:15 PM)ken d Wrote:  I think the answer for the G5 is to play football at a different time of the year. Make G5 football a spring sport, so you don't have to compete with the P5 for eyeballs. The trick will be finding a time for your 16 team championship tournament that doesn't have to compete with NBA playoffs, Stanley Cup, and golf.

Excuse me, WTF? And what about the G5 teams with historical and regional rivals with P5 teams? What about the fact that would eliminate almost ALL NFL draft picks from G5? What about the fact that some schools have less than 5 weeks between the end of college basketball and the end of spring semester?

He is mocking us. He doesn't like the AAC or schools that don't play in the semi pro 5. He got defensive on my ESPN thread. He's very pro ESPN

Of course I am mocking. Who wouldn't mock a strategy to try to trick fans into thinking the G5 isn't something they have rejected for years? Such a premise is, in itself, a mockery. I never thought for a second this thread was meant to be taken seriously. Just like I didn't take your anti ESPN screed seriously.

"Pro ESPN"? That's a real knee slapper.

Me thinks you protest about the AAC too much. What are you getting so defensive about? Real college athletics (non semi pro 5) isn't hurting you.
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2018 07:43 PM by billybobby777.)
02-24-2018 07:41 PM
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