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Ideas on how to make espn a mid-major.
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Ideas on how to make espn a mid-major.
(02-25-2018 02:38 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(02-25-2018 01:02 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I don't like ESPN either but pointing out facts is hardly a conspiracy to "kill" anything.

There's a serious level of butthurt here over really benign terms.

It's always a conspiracy theory!

That's easier to handle than facing reality--which is harsh.
02-25-2018 03:28 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Ideas on how to make espn a mid-major.
(02-25-2018 03:26 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-25-2018 02:38 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(02-25-2018 01:02 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I don't like ESPN either but pointing out facts is hardly a conspiracy to "kill" anything.

There's a serious level of butthurt here over really benign terms.

You are welcome to not post here.

Here meaning all over the board, not just this thread. You're taking as a personal insult non-charged terminology used for the sake of convenience by media outlets and among fans to delineate the distinct groups of conferences. There's no insult intended.
02-25-2018 03:53 PM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Ideas on how to make espn a mid-major.
(02-25-2018 10:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  It's not complicated - "major" can refer to conference or school. E.g., UConn is a "major" basketball program even though it is in the "mid-major" AAC conference.

It can be that way. 07-coffee3

I suppose you think Gonzaga is a major.
02-25-2018 03:56 PM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Ideas on how to make espn a mid-major.
(02-25-2018 03:21 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-25-2018 02:56 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(02-25-2018 09:25 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-25-2018 09:11 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(02-25-2018 07:24 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Division 1 conference. One of the 10 FBS conferences. I want them called by what they officially are.

(02-25-2018 07:40 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  D-1?

Why is that so objectionable?

What else do we delineate along completely arbitrary, made up names? Lot of that stuff will get you into trouble...

The term DI is not objectionable. Then again, neither are P5, G5, mid-major, etc. These terms are not inherently derogatory. They simply reflect the very real gap in money, talent, and prestige between the P5 and G5 in FBS and the P6 and mid-majors in basketball. It's naive or misleading to not recognize such a distinction.

I can list several schools who have averaged top 25 in attendance for the past several years in basketball who aren’t “P6”. One of them has a losing record this year and still this year averages 12k in their 16k arena. (New Mexico)
By your definition, DePaul who plays in front of few fans & doesn’t have an arena is a “major” correct?
By your definition, Cincy, Uconn, Wichita St, Memphis, UNLV, SDSU, UNM, BYU, Dayton & St Louis in their big nice arenas that have hosted NCAA tournament games and even final 4’s are “mid-majors” correct?

You sure DePaul doesn't have an arena?

You mean the place they play in is their own? They own it? If I’m wrong I’ll admit it.

Georgetown, Marquette, Seton Hall, Villanova, St. John's and Providence play home games in arenas they don't own. Temple plays FB games in a stadium they don't own. Whats your point here? DePaul are the sole occupants of a brand new arena right on the Lake in Chicago. I'd bet it's nicer than 95% of college basketball arenas what with it being brand spanking new in a desirable part of a major city.
02-25-2018 04:46 PM
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Jjoey52 Offline
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Post: #45
Ideas on how to make espn a mid-major.
ESPN has a total stranglehold on college football owning several of the bowl games and the rights to most of the rest. Until that is broken, they control the game and all that comes with it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
02-25-2018 05:44 PM
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Mav Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Ideas on how to make espn a mid-major.
I'd say ESPN's doing a wonderful job of that on their own. Just look at how they're flailing around at Clay Travis's criticism. If nothing was wrong they wouldn't even acknowledge him, regardless of his impact on their recent decline. Just be glad that other fans are seeing that the emperor has no clothes.
02-25-2018 05:49 PM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Ideas on how to make espn a mid-major.
Oh please at this thread, without ESPN, the same conferences would more or less dominate and, as in the old days, the outsider conferences would see very little TV time or at least on channels that the majority of people get.

ESPN isn't the problem, the system is. Blame the NCAA three quarters of a century ago for not instituting some kind of playoffs as they did for college basketball.
02-25-2018 06:08 PM
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JMUDunk Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Ideas on how to make espn a mid-major.
(02-25-2018 09:11 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(02-25-2018 07:24 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-24-2018 10:15 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(02-24-2018 04:21 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-24-2018 03:48 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Words are what you make of them.

Media and then case ESPN has used deadly words against us. But it’s more than words, espn has attempted to kill our schools.
I want them out.

What would you prefer the group of conferences outside the most powerful conferences be called besides G5 in FBS and mid-major in basketball?

Division 1 conference. One of the 10 FBS conferences. I want them called by what they officially are.

(02-25-2018 07:40 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  D-1?

Why is that so objectionable?

What else do we delineate along completely arbitrary, made up names? Lot of that stuff will get you into trouble...

The term DI is not objectionable. Then again, neither are P5, G5, mid-major, etc. These terms are not inherently derogatory. They simply reflect the very real gap in money, talent, and prestige between the P5 and G5 in FBS and the P6 and mid-majors in basketball. It's naive or misleading to not recognize such a distinction.

Hahhahaha. How many Final Fours have been served up by whatever squad you root for? I'm a JMU fan and it' been since '82 or so since we took Jordan et al. to the wire, so we've had an admitted drought.

But, with the success of programs like GMU, VCPoo etc., You can't tell me that all this "talent" is only in the P5 or G5.

That's just being silly.
02-26-2018 12:49 AM
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DawgNBama Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Ideas on how to make espn a mid-major.
(02-25-2018 05:44 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  ESPN has a total stranglehold on college football owning several of the bowl games and the rights to most of the rest. Until that is broken, they control the game and all that comes with it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It’s worse than that, which is what Billy & I both have been saying. First, ESPN desires to block any more programs from joining the P5/P6 (all sports). Second, ESPN wants to break up the Big 12, and doesn’t care what happens to any team not named Oklahoma or Texas. ESPN also does not care if conference fans don’t want 16 teams or not, or how much the fans will have to pay to see their teams. ESPN will charge whatever the market will bear, IMO. Then, there is your point about the bowls. How, pray tell, is ESPN not a monopoly?? The sad thing is that no one so far has even bothered to try to dispute/refute my statement that ESPN is a monopoly. If monopolies are good, why don’t we continue to buy oil from OPEC?? Why even bust up past monopolies???
02-26-2018 04:43 AM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Ideas on how to make espn a mid-major.
LOL, ESPN is not the problem.
02-26-2018 08:30 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Ideas on how to make espn a mid-major.
If ESPN is a "monopoly", how come during the fall i get plenty of college football games on other channels and networks?
02-26-2018 08:48 AM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Ideas on how to make espn a mid-major.
(02-24-2018 02:47 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  One way I’m contributing is by not paying for espn.

It may be that you are pissing into the wind on this one. 07-coffee3
02-26-2018 08:55 AM
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Eldonabe Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Ideas on how to make espn a mid-major.
(02-25-2018 03:28 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(02-25-2018 02:38 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(02-25-2018 01:02 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I don't like ESPN either but pointing out facts is hardly a conspiracy to "kill" anything.

There's a serious level of butthurt here over really benign terms.

It's always a conspiracy theory!

That's easier to handle than facing reality--which is harsh.


That is the world we live in now......

Verucca Salk had it - I want it now, I want it all, and I want it handed to me, I don't want to work for it.


It is much easier to tell everyone it was stolen from you rather putting in the work and earning it.
02-26-2018 09:05 AM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Ideas on how to make espn a mid-major.
(02-26-2018 08:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  If ESPN is a "monopoly", how come during the fall i get plenty of college football games on other channels and networks?

It's not a monopoly but it is dominant enough that it doesn't have a significant competitor.
02-26-2018 09:12 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Ideas on how to make espn a mid-major.
(02-26-2018 12:49 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  
(02-25-2018 09:11 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(02-25-2018 07:24 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-24-2018 10:15 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(02-24-2018 04:21 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Media and then case ESPN has used deadly words against us. But it’s more than words, espn has attempted to kill our schools.
I want them out.

What would you prefer the group of conferences outside the most powerful conferences be called besides G5 in FBS and mid-major in basketball?

Division 1 conference. One of the 10 FBS conferences. I want them called by what they officially are.

(02-25-2018 07:40 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  D-1?

Why is that so objectionable?

What else do we delineate along completely arbitrary, made up names? Lot of that stuff will get you into trouble...

The term DI is not objectionable. Then again, neither are P5, G5, mid-major, etc. These terms are not inherently derogatory. They simply reflect the very real gap in money, talent, and prestige between the P5 and G5 in FBS and the P6 and mid-majors in basketball. It's naive or misleading to not recognize such a distinction.

Hahhahaha. How many Final Fours have been served up by whatever squad you root for? I'm a JMU fan and it' been since '82 or so since we took Jordan et al. to the wire, so we've had an admitted drought.

But, with the success of programs like GMU, VCPoo etc., You can't tell me that all this "talent" is only in the P5 or G5.

That's just being silly.

I don't have a squad I root for. In any case, there is certainly some talent in the non-power conferences. But you can't tell me that a conference like the A-10 as a whole has more talent than any of the power conferences.
02-26-2018 09:40 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Ideas on how to make espn a mid-major.
(02-26-2018 09:12 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(02-26-2018 08:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  If ESPN is a "monopoly", how come during the fall i get plenty of college football games on other channels and networks?

It's not a monopoly but it is dominant enough that it doesn't have a significant competitor.

I'm sure Fox would take exception to being characterized as an insignificant competitor. And CBS and NBC seem to be as significant as they choose to be. With ABC available OTA there are a lot of sports available without subscribing to ESPN.
02-26-2018 01:53 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Ideas on how to make espn a mid-major.
ESPN, while having tons of resources and content, is not preventing NBC, CBS, FOX or any other distributor from spending as big on other available content. The AAC, for example, will soon have its TV deal with ESPN expire. Every single distributor, including Netflix, Amazon, etc., will have an opportunity to bid on that content and offer what it feels is not only market value, but also the value they deem it appropriate for their network. If NBC thinks the AAC is worth $10 million per year, then so be it. Fox viewed the Big East as being $500 million over 12-years. ESPN didn't decide that.

Does ESPN hire coaches for certain programs? Does it tell those programs which recruits to take? Does it mandate compliance policy? Does it set admission standards? At the end of the day, every school and athletic program controls its own destiny. Any narrative that spins a corporate network as deciding how successful a program can be is short-sighted and foolish.
02-26-2018 02:49 PM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Ideas on how to make espn a mid-major.
(02-26-2018 01:53 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(02-26-2018 09:12 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(02-26-2018 08:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  If ESPN is a "monopoly", how come during the fall i get plenty of college football games on other channels and networks?

It's not a monopoly but it is dominant enough that it doesn't have a significant competitor.

I'm sure Fox would take exception to being characterized as an insignificant competitor. And CBS and NBC seem to be as significant as they choose to be. With ABC available OTA there are a lot of sports available without subscribing to ESPN.

I haven't followed the ratings, but I'm sure NBC's coverage of the Olympics was pretty significant. CBS and TNT coverage of March Madness and the NBA is significant.
02-26-2018 02:59 PM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Ideas on how to make espn a mid-major.
(02-24-2018 02:41 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  ESPN has been trying to kill my school for over 20 years with conference realignment, BCS/P5 and labeling us “mid-major”. They’ve almost destroyed us. Time to fight back. How to we make ESPN a mid-major and get involved in college sports media realignment? Serious ideas. I want them to hurt as bad as they hurt us.
I want them out.

As it relates to college football and basketball, I'd say the best bet would be for the B1G, PAC, and B12, along with the AAC and MWC to choose other broadcast partners completely.

ESPN would still be strong with SEC and ACC content and networks, but a huge portion of the college football world follows the other conferences. I might have some of the dates and contract benchmarks out of order, but this is how it could happen:

STEP 1
Starting with the 2020 season, AAC, MWC and BYU/WCC split football and basketball inventory with NBC, CBS and Amazon - including the CCGs and basketball tournaments.

* ESPN is left with only its half-inventory of PAC (and Big Sky/Big West?) late night kickoffs and tipoffs. ESPN also loses inventory for ESPN2 and ESPNU by losing weeknight AAC and MWC games and some of the ACC inventory (that goes to the AACN, starting 2019). Must replace with less-attractive games or non-college sports programming.

NBCSports and CBSSN get a bump with some better inventory from the majority of AAC, MWC, and BYU and WCC inventory, with a few football games (including CCGs) and a dozen basketball games for NBC and CBS broadcast to compliment Notre Dame and SEC games.

STEP 2
Starting with the 2020 bowl season, FOX, NBC, and/or CBS negotiate broadcast deals with several major bowl games and most AAC and MWC bowl games. As these networks take over more inventory (see below), they continue to take over broadcasting rights for the major bowl games.

* ESPN is slowly divested of its massive control of the college football post-season. In begins with the AAC and MWC taking over their bowl games and just a couple of other P5 bowl games here or there. Eventually, the CONFERENCES take control of bowl games and broadcasting rights. ESPN is left with massive holes in its holiday broadcast lineup - at least as far as college football goes.

STEP 3
For the 2023 season, Big Ten splits its football and basketball inventory with FOX and NBC - including the Big Ten CCG and basketball tournament.

* ESPN takes it on the chin. Loses significant ABC and ESPN Saturday inventory. Must replace with less-attractive games or non-college sports programming.

NBCSports and FS1 get some better inventory from B1G second tier games. NBC supplements the Notre Dame and AAC/MWC/BYU games.

STEP 4
For the 2024 season, PAC splits inventory with FOX, CBS, and Amazon - including the PAC CCG and basketball tournament.

*ESPN has no quality college sports programming left for the late night timeslots. (This is where ESPN might offer AAC/MWC/WCC significant money, to fill timeslots).

CBS adds quality Pacific timezone inventory for CBSSN and compliments the SEC game of the week and AAC/MWC/BYU inventory. Can now have three CBS-worthy broadcasts each Saturday.

STEP 5
For the 2025 season, CBS extends/renews its SEC game of the week.

*ESPN doesn't have this inventory now, but it would desperately want the best SEC games to help fill out its college football inventory.

CBS keeps the SEC game of the week.

STEP 6
For the 2025 season, either the PAC and B1G expand, destroying the B12,... or the B12 splits inventory with FOX, CBS and Amazon - including the B12 CCG and basketball tournament.

* ESPN is now left with only partial SEC and ACC college sports inventory for ESPN, ESPN2, and ESPNU. However, ABC needs content and the SECN and ACCN need inventory. So, SEC and ACC inventory for ESPN and ESPN2 broadcast is diminished. ESPNU likely doesn't survive, unless Sun Belt and MAC (or Ivy League) sports are deemed suitable replacement inventory.
02-26-2018 03:38 PM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Ideas on how to make espn a mid-major.
(02-26-2018 01:53 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(02-26-2018 09:12 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(02-26-2018 08:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  If ESPN is a "monopoly", how come during the fall i get plenty of college football games on other channels and networks?

It's not a monopoly but it is dominant enough that it doesn't have a significant competitor.

I'm sure Fox would take exception to being characterized as an insignificant competitor. And CBS and NBC seem to be as significant as they choose to be. With ABC available OTA there are a lot of sports available without subscribing to ESPN.

Yes, Fox is still an insignificant competitor. It's doing okay but ESPN had a 35 year head start. If I still had ESPN, it'd be automatic for me to turn it on for everything from sports news to PTI, to 30-for-30 to games. I'd only turn on FSI for games.

It's no different than flushing the toilet after using it or, for many people, praying before going to bed and waking up. It's just automatic without thinking because it's a habit.
02-26-2018 04:22 PM
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