(02-26-2018 09:39 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  I'm not sure exactly...but as evidenced by Cronin's presser I think he and the team feel they aren't getting the respect they deserve from their own fans. BB&T has been full for the most part this season but the energy and enthusiasm has definitely been lacking. And it's not just because of the student section.... Right or wrong a lot of fans are just waiting to see what this team does in March. And I think there's a good chunk of UC "fans" that are waiting for this team to fail in March. I think Cronin and the team feel this. What should have felt like a celebration yesterday felt like an obligation. Despite sitting at 25-4 and alone a top the conference, neither the fans, players, or coaches seem to be having much fun.

Now there are a lot of factors at play here, I get it. Cronin's teams haven't made noise in March, UC doesn't play a flashy style of ball, AAC foes leave a lot to be desired, and the crosstown rival is having an even better season and their best ever. Add the fact that this team hasn't really inspired confidence versus elite competition this season and this season kinda feels like a grind. The noon tip off-campus never helps either...I just want the boys to get back to having fun, and the fans get back to riding or dying with this team.

Side note: Has anyone else heard the rumors about Keith potentially transferring out after this year?? That would be a huge blow because he's going to be a great one if he buys into Mick's system.

My group had fun yesterday. Cheered our butts off and celebrated the seniors. We did not look at it as an "obligation." Thought the Univ did a great job recognizing the seniors as well as other individuals; NKU partnership, UCATS founding members and NICU babies at half.

If you are hoping that UC fails in March, you are not a UC fan or supporter. Let's not confuse frustration with March success with wishing for that result. Every UC fan, I know, wants Mick to succeed. Many are just frustrated with the results.

I see a team who is very business like and knows there is a lot riding on March this year. If this is what it takes for them to achieve those results, then so be it. I am sure Mick is feeling extreme pressure and probably is not handling it well. Of course this is the same guy who said he doesn't care what fans think, since they have to "work for a living."

BTW...great job by the university with the free shirts yesterday. One of the better free shirts I've gotten. Going to be great for warm weather runs on sunny days.

(02-26-2018 11:50 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  BTW...great job by the university with the free shirts yesterday. One of the better free shirts I've gotten. Going to be great for warm weather runs on sunny days.

Yep. This was a huge positive yesterday. Love the free UA shirt. Will come in handy on those training runs. Would love to see the Univ partner with a corp entity to do more give aways, such as this one.

(02-26-2018 11:47 AM)bearcatmill Wrote:  If you are hoping that UC fails in March, you are not a UC fan or supporter. Let's not confuse frustration with March success with wishing for that result. Every UC fan, I know, wants Mick to succeed. Many are just frustrated with the results.

There are fans who have for many years now thought that UC should move on from Cronin. So, while they don't want UC to fail, they get some perverse, miserable joy out of big losses. They're UC fans, for sure, but it's like cognitive dissonance with them: they want UC to do well, but they also want to be right, so any negative is blown up and any positive is downplayed. Most of these fans latch onto tournament success. It's where Cronin has struggled the most, and it's the most important thing in college basketball, so that makes sense. But it also fits with their relentlessly negative outlook. You can't make the Sweet 16 in February, so any win becomes irrelevant. But every loss just foreshadows another first-weekend exit in March. It sucks, but the only way to fix it is for UC to make a deep tournament run.

(02-26-2018 12:26 PM)levydl Wrote:  

(02-26-2018 11:47 AM)bearcatmill Wrote:  If you are hoping that UC fails in March, you are not a UC fan or supporter. Let's not confuse frustration with March success with wishing for that result. Every UC fan, I know, wants Mick to succeed. Many are just frustrated with the results.

There are fans who have for many years now thought that UC should move on from Cronin. So, while they don't want UC to fail, they get some perverse, miserable joy out of big losses. They're UC fans, for sure, but it's like cognitive dissonance with them: they want UC to do well, but they also want to be right, so any negative is blown up and any positive is downplayed. Most of these fans latch onto tournament success. It's where Cronin has struggled the most, and it's the most important thing in college basketball, so that makes sense. But it also fits with their relentlessly negative outlook. You can't make the Sweet 16 in February, so any win becomes irrelevant. But every loss just foreshadows another first-weekend exit in March. It sucks, but the only way to fix it is for UC to make a deep tournament run.

I get the tournament success thing, but UC has done about as well as expected in the tournament given their seeds. One "big" upset in a 12/5 (though honestly that 12 wasn't that much worse than UC in the predictive metrics), pulled off a nice upset over 3 seed Florida State to get to a sweet 16... Took care of business in the first round as a 6 seed multiple times... Fairly even in the 7-10; 8-9 type games. UC hasn't really underachieved as a whole in the tournament.

The big thing is, UC really has never had a team that was supposed to make a deep run. This year they should. This team has been a top 5-10 team by the predictive metrics almost the entire season. They've been a top 12 team by the polls for significant portions of the season. This team is qualitatively different than past teams and expectations should rightfully be higher. Mick needs to start producing these caliber teams more often, but I don't think UC's "lack of tournament success" is about UC underachieving in March.

(02-26-2018 12:31 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-26-2018 12:26 PM)levydl Wrote:  

(02-26-2018 11:47 AM)bearcatmill Wrote:  If you are hoping that UC fails in March, you are not a UC fan or supporter. Let's not confuse frustration with March success with wishing for that result. Every UC fan, I know, wants Mick to succeed. Many are just frustrated with the results.

There are fans who have for many years now thought that UC should move on from Cronin. So, while they don't want UC to fail, they get some perverse, miserable joy out of big losses. They're UC fans, for sure, but it's like cognitive dissonance with them: they want UC to do well, but they also want to be right, so any negative is blown up and any positive is downplayed. Most of these fans latch onto tournament success. It's where Cronin has struggled the most, and it's the most important thing in college basketball, so that makes sense. But it also fits with their relentlessly negative outlook. You can't make the Sweet 16 in February, so any win becomes irrelevant. But every loss just foreshadows another first-weekend exit in March. It sucks, but the only way to fix it is for UC to make a deep tournament run.

I get the tournament success thing, but UC has done about as well as expected in the tournament given their seeds. One "big" upset in a 12/5 (though honestly that 12 wasn't that much worse than UC in the predictive metrics), pulled off a nice upset over 3 seed Florida State to get to a sweet 16... Took care of business in the first round as a 6 seed multiple times... Fairly even in the 7-10; 8-9 type games. UC hasn't really underachieved as a whole in the tournament.

The big thing is, UC really has never had a team that was supposed to make a deep run. This year they should. This team has been a top 5-10 team by the predictive metrics almost the entire season. They've been a top 12 team by the polls for significant portions of the season. This team is qualitatively different than past teams and expectations should rightfully be higher. Mick needs to start producing these caliber teams more often, but I don't think UC's "lack of tournament success" is about UC underachieving in March.

It's true that they've largely played to their seed in the tourney, but that doesn't really matter much if all you care about is tournament success. Lower seeds (that is, worse seeds) make the Sweet 16 and Elite 8 every year. When they do, it's proof that the team really was good, because all that matters is winning in the tourney (see the thread earlier this year comparing Mack to Cronin, in which many people thought that XU has had several championship caliber teams simply because they've made several deep tourney runs, even though they did so with relatively low-seeded teams that had no realistic chance to win a title).

(02-26-2018 01:36 PM)levydl Wrote:  It's true that they've largely played to their seed in the tourney, but that doesn't really matter much if all you care about is tournament success. Lower seeds (that is, worse seeds) make the Sweet 16 and Elite 8 every year. When they do, it's proof that the team really was good, because all that matters is winning in the tourney (see the thread earlier this year comparing Mack to Cronin, in which many people thought that XU has had several championship caliber teams simply because they've made several deep tourney runs, even though they did so with relatively low-seeded teams that had no realistic chance to win a title).

I get that this is how people think, I just think it's looking at things the wrong way.

I am firmly of the line of thinking that Mick's sustained success is impressive, BUT he needs to produce teams that are true contender type teams more often than he has so far. This is the first such team and I'm excited to see how it plays out.

Paraphrasing from the Godfather:

Mick, this is the business you have chosen.

Your success:
*90% of your season (regular and conference tournament) weighted at 10%.
*10% of your season (NCAA tournament) weighted at 90%.

Basketball coach is a tough gig.

(02-26-2018 08:34 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-26-2018 08:28 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(02-26-2018 08:16 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Are the stations playing the quote out of context or are people really that bad at understanding what he actually said? Cronin made the point that 3 great programs have struggled at times this season and that fans should appreciate what UC is accomplishing right now, because this kind of success isn't guaranteed. It wasn't a shot at either of those programs.

I wouldn't put it past Broo and company to selectively edit the sound bite. But the larger point is, I don't think Mick makes himself or the UC program look better by taking shots at these other area programs.

Media relations have not been his strong suit. The incident at the end of the X game this season and his post game comments about an opposing player would have been better left unsaid too. For some, he came off as a sore loser after a poor performance by his team regardless of what another team's player did.

I guess my point is that he wasn't actually taking a shot at any of those programs. He was saying that the kind of success UC is having isn't guaranteed when even great programs like that struggle at times. He thinks people should enjoy the success UC is having. I guess I don't get the weird outrage over that point.

Bearcat Mark, I'm in complete agreement with your comments (bolded) and believe we should be enjoying this ride to a top ten season. I think there would be more jubilation among Bearcat fans right now if UC had beaten WSU and would have been in a position to clinch a regular season banner Thursday night at Tulane. But that doesn't mean the season is a disappointment. The jury is still out with regard to the postseason and I've chosen to remain cautiously optimistic.

(02-26-2018 07:22 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(02-26-2018 08:34 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-26-2018 08:28 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(02-26-2018 08:16 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Are the stations playing the quote out of context or are people really that bad at understanding what he actually said? Cronin made the point that 3 great programs have struggled at times this season and that fans should appreciate what UC is accomplishing right now, because this kind of success isn't guaranteed. It wasn't a shot at either of those programs.

I wouldn't put it past Broo and company to selectively edit the sound bite. But the larger point is, I don't think Mick makes himself or the UC program look better by taking shots at these other area programs.

Media relations have not been his strong suit. The incident at the end of the X game this season and his post game comments about an opposing player would have been better left unsaid too. For some, he came off as a sore loser after a poor performance by his team regardless of what another team's player did.

I guess my point is that he wasn't actually taking a shot at any of those programs. He was saying that the kind of success UC is having isn't guaranteed when even great programs like that struggle at times. He thinks people should enjoy the success UC is having. I guess I don't get the weird outrage over that point.

Bearcat Mark, I'm in complete agreement with your comments (bolded) and believe we should be enjoying this ride to a top ten season. I think there would be more jubilation among Bearcat fans right now if UC had beaten WSU and would have been in a position to clinch a regular season banner Thursday night at Tulane. But that doesn't mean the season is a disappointment. The jury is still out with regard to the postseason and I've chosen to remain cautiously optimistic.

If we beat Tulane, we have an enormous game to look forward to Sunday.

(02-26-2018 07:37 PM)rosewater Wrote:  

(02-26-2018 07:22 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(02-26-2018 08:34 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-26-2018 08:28 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(02-26-2018 08:16 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Are the stations playing the quote out of context or are people really that bad at understanding what he actually said? Cronin made the point that 3 great programs have struggled at times this season and that fans should appreciate what UC is accomplishing right now, because this kind of success isn't guaranteed. It wasn't a shot at either of those programs.

I wouldn't put it past Broo and company to selectively edit the sound bite. But the larger point is, I don't think Mick makes himself or the UC program look better by taking shots at these other area programs.

Media relations have not been his strong suit. The incident at the end of the X game this season and his post game comments about an opposing player would have been better left unsaid too. For some, he came off as a sore loser after a poor performance by his team regardless of what another team's player did.

I guess my point is that he wasn't actually taking a shot at any of those programs. He was saying that the kind of success UC is having isn't guaranteed when even great programs like that struggle at times. He thinks people should enjoy the success UC is having. I guess I don't get the weird outrage over that point.

Bearcat Mark, I'm in complete agreement with your comments (bolded) and believe we should be enjoying this ride to a top ten season. I think there would be more jubilation among Bearcat fans right now if UC had beaten WSU and would have been in a position to clinch a regular season banner Thursday night at Tulane. But that doesn't mean the season is a disappointment. The jury is still out with regard to the postseason and I've chosen to remain cautiously optimistic.

If we beat Tulane, we have an enormous game to look forward to Sunday.

Heck Yeah. I have posted several times how much I am enjoying this season, especially the offense vs years past. I would be lying if I said I will not be bummed if we don't win the conference out right. Tying WSU for the title and having them sweep us would suck crap.

(02-26-2018 08:34 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-26-2018 08:28 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(02-26-2018 08:16 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Are the stations playing the quote out of context or are people really that bad at understanding what he actually said? Cronin made the point that 3 great programs have struggled at times this season and that fans should appreciate what UC is accomplishing right now, because this kind of success isn't guaranteed. It wasn't a shot at either of those programs.

I wouldn't put it past Broo and company to selectively edit the sound bite. But the larger point is, I don't think Mick makes himself or the UC program look better by taking shots at these other area programs.

Media relations have not been his strong suit. The incident at the end of the X game this season and his post game comments about an opposing player would have been better left unsaid too. For some, he came off as a sore loser after a poor performance by his team regardless of what another team's player did.

I guess my point is that he wasn't actually taking a shot at any of those programs. He was saying that the kind of success UC is having isn't guaranteed when even great programs like that struggle at times. He thinks people should enjoy the success UC is having. I guess I don't get the weird outrage over that point.

BM: ppl will see what they want to see. Some ppl will see an HC from a G5 conference kicking some blue bloods while they are down. You can ask ppl to take off their fill-in-the-blank colored glasses but it's up to them whether they actually do so.

Close out this season by winning, make it passed the first weekend and he can say whatever he wants.