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Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
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esayem Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(02-28-2018 09:30 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Rice already was in a western based conference. They like playing regional rivals. C-USA when they entered it was the best case scenario for them short of joining the Patriot League or a dreamt up Southern equivalent, the SWC or any current traditional power conference (all have schools Rice can identify with).

Key phrase: "when they entered it". The C-USA Rice joined is a shadow of its former self. Their regional rivals and institutional peers, Houston, SMU, Tulane, and Tulsa, are all gone to the American with little or no hope for the Owls to join them. The Mountain West is interested in Rice because of their academic prowess, and the articles I've read indicate Rice is mutually interested. TCU had enormous success as the lone (star) Texas outpost in the Mountain West, and I believe separating themselves from North Texas and UTSA and joining flagships (New Mexico, Wyoming, Hawaii, Nevada) is a good thing for Rice and something they'd want. Plus, travel budget is a non-factor and academically it's a step-up.
(This post was last modified: 02-28-2018 11:22 PM by esayem.)
02-28-2018 11:21 PM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
I still don't see them going west. Short of the rest of Texas falling into the Gulf, they'd be on island every bit as much Hawai'i in the MWC.
(This post was last modified: 02-28-2018 11:41 PM by _C2_.)
02-28-2018 11:29 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
You guys think Liberty is being blackballed? Try Grand Canyon. Yeah, there is a better chance Chicago State or the Centenary Gents get in the Mountain West.

I think Wedge summed up St. Mary's perfectly, something about being unproven beyond their questionable coach, etc. Plus, they don't really bring a new TV market (San Fran/San Jose).

I'm telling you, Texas is where the MWC has their sights if they are going to add any schools that field football teams.
02-28-2018 11:35 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(02-28-2018 09:03 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Zaga is guaranteed to be one.
BYU is obvious #2 but that puts them into awkward spot if MWC comes along and says add football or leave, but if Zaga is going then it gets harder to like WCC
NMSU has certainly called.
Grand Canyon probably has called.
UTEP and Rice apparently called in the past.
Then there is the weird tweet that claimed Arkansas State was in the hunt a few weeks ago.

It's interesting what may be done here.

A couple of years ago 1 story came out of MWC meetings stating the MWC was serious about going to 14 with Rice, UTEP......and perhaps if possible BYU. Thompson said the MWC was "leaving the light on for BYU" so they tabled expansion for the moment.

In this article today Thompson said he was "working out the details" with regard to adding Gonzaga. This is not a Harry Minimum ODU the world is ours speculation. This is very serious language the commissioner of the MWC is using.

Could the MWC be looking at a 14/16 hybrid with Gonzaga, St. Mary's, BYU and Rice all joining the conference? BYU/Rice in football. BYU with a Boise St type arrangement for its TV deal as a treat to come back. MWC restructuring to allow the teams that earn the NCAA berths to keep 50% of the money. In total a grand bargain to enhance the MWC?

Very interesting indeed.
02-28-2018 11:35 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(02-28-2018 11:29 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  I still don't see them going west. Short of the rest of Texas falling into the Gulf, they'd be on island every bit as much Hawai'i. in the MWC.

Haha, but they already send their football team to Australia!
02-28-2018 11:40 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(02-28-2018 11:21 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 09:30 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Rice already was in a western based conference. They like playing regional rivals. C-USA when they entered it was the best case scenario for them short of joining the Patriot League or a dreamt up Southern equivalent, the SWC or any current traditional power conference (all have schools Rice can identify with).

Key phrase: "when they entered it". The C-USA Rice joined is a shadow of its former self. Their regional rivals and institutional peers, Houston, SMU, Tulane, and Tulsa, are all gone to the American with little or no hope for the Owls to join them. The Mountain West is interested in Rice because of their academic prowess, and the articles I've read indicate Rice is mutually interested. TCU had enormous success as the lone (star) Texas outpost in the Mountain West, and I believe separating themselves from North Texas and UTSA and joining flagships (New Mexico, Wyoming, Hawaii, Nevada) is a good thing for Rice and something they'd want. Plus, travel budget is a non-factor and academically it's a step-up.

Yeah Rice would much rather be in the MWC at this point, a conference with a membership that has made CFP bowls. They would be in a division with the Front Range schools (Air Force).

This is exciting if you are a New Mexico State fan because the chances of NMSU being selected by CUSA as a replacement are very good. Sun Belt schools I think at this point are weary of jumping on the CUSA train without a TV deal in place over there.
02-28-2018 11:41 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
I don't see them ever adding St. Mary's. There's just no value there.
02-28-2018 11:41 PM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(02-28-2018 11:35 PM)esayem Wrote:  You guys think Liberty is being blackballed? Try Grand Canyon. Yeah, there is a better chance Chicago State or the Centenary Gents get in the Mountain West.

I think Wedge summed up St. Mary's perfectly, something about being unproven beyond their questionable coach, etc. Plus, they don't really bring a new TV market (San Fran/San Jose).

I'm telling you, Texas is where the MWC has their sights if they are going to add any schools that field football teams.

True but San Jose State doesn't bring the Bay Area either.
02-28-2018 11:43 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(02-28-2018 11:41 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 11:21 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 09:30 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Rice already was in a western based conference. They like playing regional rivals. C-USA when they entered it was the best case scenario for them short of joining the Patriot League or a dreamt up Southern equivalent, the SWC or any current traditional power conference (all have schools Rice can identify with).

Key phrase: "when they entered it". The C-USA Rice joined is a shadow of its former self. Their regional rivals and institutional peers, Houston, SMU, Tulane, and Tulsa, are all gone to the American with little or no hope for the Owls to join them. The Mountain West is interested in Rice because of their academic prowess, and the articles I've read indicate Rice is mutually interested. TCU had enormous success as the lone (star) Texas outpost in the Mountain West, and I believe separating themselves from North Texas and UTSA and joining flagships (New Mexico, Wyoming, Hawaii, Nevada) is a good thing for Rice and something they'd want. Plus, travel budget is a non-factor and academically it's a step-up.

Yeah Rice would much rather be in the MWC at this point, a conference with a membership that has made CFP bowls. They would be in a division with the Front Range schools (Air Force).

This is exciting if you are a New Mexico State fan because the chances of NMSU being selected by CUSA as a replacement are very good. Sun Belt schools I think at this point are weary of jumping on the CUSA train without a TV deal in place over there.

But would C-USA replace any western schools? Especially if UTEP left, I'm not so sure. The conference got too bloated for their budgets and would probably best serve itself to be at 12.
02-28-2018 11:43 PM
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Post: #50
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(02-28-2018 11:35 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 09:03 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Zaga is guaranteed to be one.
BYU is obvious #2 but that puts them into awkward spot if MWC comes along and says add football or leave, but if Zaga is going then it gets harder to like WCC
NMSU has certainly called.
Grand Canyon probably has called.
UTEP and Rice apparently called in the past.
Then there is the weird tweet that claimed Arkansas State was in the hunt a few weeks ago.

It's interesting what may be done here.

A couple of years ago 1 story came out of MWC meetings stating the MWC was serious about going to 14 with Rice, UTEP......and perhaps if possible BYU. Thompson said the MWC was "leaving the light on for BYU" so they tabled expansion for the moment.

In this article today Thompson said he was "working out the details" with regard to adding Gonzaga. This is not a Harry Minimum ODU the world is ours speculation. This is very serious language the commissioner of the MWC is using.

Could the MWC be looking at a 14/16 hybrid with Gonzaga, St. Mary's, BYU and Rice all joining the conference? BYU/Rice in football. BYU with a Boise St type arrangement for its TV deal as a treat to come back. MWC restructuring to allow the teams that earn the NCAA berths to keep 50% of the money. In total a grand bargain to enhance the MWC?

Very interesting indeed.

If MWC wants BYU non-football, taking Gonzaga is a nice start because WCC doesn't look as good without them.
The interesting question is what are the terms of Hawaii's football only membership if MWC wants to free up space.
02-28-2018 11:46 PM
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Post: #51
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
New Mexico St, Grand Canyon & Hawaii to the West Coast in Basketball. And BYU, NMS, Hawaii, UMASS, Liberty, Army & Grand Canyon annually play each other in football.
02-28-2018 11:47 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(02-28-2018 11:35 PM)esayem Wrote:  You guys think Liberty is being blackballed? Try Grand Canyon. Yeah, there is a better chance Chicago State or the Centenary Gents get in the Mountain West.

I think Wedge summed up St. Mary's perfectly, something about being unproven beyond their questionable coach, etc. Plus, they don't really bring a new TV market (San Fran/San Jose).

I'm telling you, Texas is where the MWC has their sights if they are going to add any schools that field football teams.

Gonzaga is much more of a direct shot in the arm. They have a consistent basketball program and they add a new state (Washington) to the MWC. St. Mary's could slip in as part of the deal just to balance numbers. That they share a market with SJSU isn't a total non-starter.

Backfill for the WCC gets interesting. Seattle has been blackballed from joining by Gonzaga. If the Zags are gone that removes the objection. Grand Canyon may have a chance at the WCC since the WCC is kind of limited on members.

A lot of hope out west tonight.
02-28-2018 11:48 PM
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Post: #53
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
For the last time, no one is adding St. Mary's. They add as much value long term as St. Mary's High School (pick one).
02-28-2018 11:49 PM
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Post: #54
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(02-28-2018 07:54 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  BYU's independence is what gives them a more or less level playing field against Utah in recruiting. They aren't coming back to the MWC any time soon.

Independence is not working.

[Image: 5720B2F2-C243-4F3C-915E-1BDCCE532EE4_zpskhk10ije.jpeg]

[Image: F5A57E94-203C-4EE1-9D47-4E64C829CF16_zpsqicmclbs.jpeg]
02-28-2018 11:52 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(02-28-2018 06:54 PM)Wedge Wrote:  That article has an extremely rosy MWC spin. Gonzaga's RPI is "dragged down" by the bottom of the WCC? The answer to that problem is not the bottom of the MWC: CSU at 215, AFA at 239, and SJSU at 304 is an extremely small "improvement" over Loyola at 260, Portland at 275, and Pepperdine at 325. "Assuming San Diego State, UNLV and New Mexico can return to their past levels" -- C'mon. They're all struggling now. Assuming that all of them will somehow start to win every year as much as they did in their best two or three years out of the past 20 or 30 years is not a reasonable assumption, it's just a dream. The best argument that you could make for the MWC over the WCC is that most of the MWC's bottom feeders at least have the ambition to become much better in men's hoops at some point in the future, whereas I don't know that you could say that about Portland or Pepperdine.

But if this ever did happen, then it would be another potential extinction event for the WAC. Seattle would undoubtedly move to the WCC if they have to replace the Zags.

Also, I know that we should never expect anyone to "do the right thing" in college sports, but if the MWC is really looking to add new members to beef up their basketball, NMSU should be on the list.


The key isnt the bottom of either conference. The key is the top. It allows 2 conferences with narrow tops to increase the number of quality RPI games during the conference season.

I just talked about this in the G5 reorganization thread. The point I was making it it makes sense for the top non-power basketball schools (especially the ones that dont play football) to coalesce as it will improve their "at large" chances by improving their conference schedule. It makes sense for the top programs (like BYU, VCU, Wichita, Gonzaga, etc) to join up with the best non-power league in thier side of the country. Say the top 2 or 3 non-football programs in the east join the AAC. The top two or 3 non-football playing basketball programs in the west would gravitate to the MW. Its the best way for the top non-power basketball programs to avoid a conference schedule that drags down thier resume.
02-28-2018 11:53 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(02-28-2018 11:29 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  I still don't see them going west. Short of the rest of Texas falling into the Gulf, they'd be on island every bit as much Hawai'i in the MWC.

Wouldnt matter. The MW wold be a huge conference upgrade for Rice--especailly from a TV standpoint.
(This post was last modified: 02-28-2018 11:55 PM by Attackcoog.)
02-28-2018 11:55 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(02-28-2018 08:54 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 07:51 PM)YNot Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 07:24 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  This is pretty wild for expansion of the MWC:

http://mwwire.com/2018/02/28/mountain-we...nd-canyon/

I'm not sure Saint Mary's is that attractive. Despite top-25 rankings and playing in a huge media market, they have little fan support or following.

But, more importantly, BYU would probably stick with independence and a watered-down WCC versus playing in the Mountain division or that Rockies bball quadrant. Here's how you tempt BYU:

- ensure annual home-away basketball games with Gonzaga and Utah St. and one of UNLV, SDSU, or New Mexico.

- ensure annual football games against Boise St. and Utah St., even if cross-division.

- let them phase-in to full membership by 2023 - to avoid substantial and costly game buyout penalties. 4-6 games until then, with Utah St. and Boise St. as annual opponents.

So, the answer for football is to align all the legacy MWC schools, except for BYU, in the MWC South Division - plus UTEP or NMSU.

MWC SOUTH
SDSU
UNLV
Air Force
Wyoming
CSU
New Mexico
NMSU/UTEP

MWC NORTH
BYU
Boise St.
Utah St.
Hawaii
Fresno St.
SJSU
Nevada

This way, BYU keeps its two rivalry games, rekindles its rivalry with Hawaii, and gets an annual game in California.

For basketball quadrants:

NORTH
Gonzaga
Boise St.
Utah St.
BYU

WEST
Fresno St.
SJSU
Saint Mary's
Nevada

SOUTH
SDSU
UNLV
New Mexico
Grand Canyon

EAST
Wyoming
Colorado St.
Air Force
NMSU/UTEP

*Go to a 20-game conference basketball schedule, so you play your quad plus two others home-away; everyone else once (rotating home-away every other year). Stack the schedules so that Gonzaga and Saint Mary's play annually (and perhaps BYU and Saint Mary's).

Wouldn't be surprised in that scenario if AAC offers BYU a ND type deal.

I'd do that without a moments thought. 04-cheers

That said, if BYU were to join the MW, it would be for olympic sports only. I dont see football being part of the deal (beyond maybe a scheduling agreement).
(This post was last modified: 02-28-2018 11:58 PM by Attackcoog.)
02-28-2018 11:57 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(02-28-2018 09:30 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 08:12 PM)esayem Wrote:  Gonzaga - adds a new market and a stable basketball program

UTEP - the MWC is the conference they should have been in for years

Rice - perhaps Rice can have TCU-like success in this western conference separate from the other Texas C-USA schools (besides UTEP)

Mountain
Rice
UTEP
UNM
Air Force
Colorado State
Wyoming
Utah State

West
Boise
Nevada
UNLV
San Diego State
Fresno State
San Jose State
Hawaii (Gonzaga)

Not sure how BYU would fit into this situation.

Rice already was in a western based conference. They like playing regional rivals. C-USA when they entered it was the best case scenario for them short of joining the Patriot League or a dreamt up Southern equivalent, the SWC or any current traditional power conference (all have schools Rice can identify with).

They left the WAC when all the Mountain West teams left....now they would be JOINING those MW teams again.
03-01-2018 12:00 AM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(02-28-2018 11:53 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 06:54 PM)Wedge Wrote:  That article has an extremely rosy MWC spin. Gonzaga's RPI is "dragged down" by the bottom of the WCC? The answer to that problem is not the bottom of the MWC: CSU at 215, AFA at 239, and SJSU at 304 is an extremely small "improvement" over Loyola at 260, Portland at 275, and Pepperdine at 325. "Assuming San Diego State, UNLV and New Mexico can return to their past levels" -- C'mon. They're all struggling now. Assuming that all of them will somehow start to win every year as much as they did in their best two or three years out of the past 20 or 30 years is not a reasonable assumption, it's just a dream. The best argument that you could make for the MWC over the WCC is that most of the MWC's bottom feeders at least have the ambition to become much better in men's hoops at some point in the future, whereas I don't know that you could say that about Portland or Pepperdine.

But if this ever did happen, then it would be another potential extinction event for the WAC. Seattle would undoubtedly move to the WCC if they have to replace the Zags.

Also, I know that we should never expect anyone to "do the right thing" in college sports, but if the MWC is really looking to add new members to beef up their basketball, NMSU should be on the list.


The key isnt the bottom of either conference. The key is the top. It allows 2 conferences with narrow tops to increase the number of quality RPI games during the conference season.

I just talked about this in the G5 reorganization thread. The point I was making it it makes sense for the top non-power basketball schools (especially the ones that dont play football) to coalesce as it will improve their "at large" chances by improving their conference schedule. It makes sense for the top programs (like BYU, VCU, Wichita, Gonzaga, etc) to join up with the best non-power league in thier side of the country. Say the top 2 or 3 non-football programs in the east join the AAC. The top two or 3 non-football playing basketball programs in the west would gravitate to the MW. Its the best way for the top non-power basketball programs to avoid a conference schedule that drags down thier resume.

To add to that it is pretty much proven that a Top 20 program which moves from one of those conferences will maintain it moving to the G5 conference. For example Wichita moving its ranked program directly to the AAC. A direct shot in the arm for the AAC.

But from the perspective of Wichita or Gonzaga its about ensuring long term survival of their athletic department being tied to an FBS conference. Conferences with national TV deals because they have FBS football and legitimate futures.

Is it time for the MAC to also think about its little mid-major region about possibly going to 16 in basketball to become multibid? SLU, Bradley, Loyola, Valpo to double down in the Chicago market? It could prevent Buffalo from leaving some day.
03-01-2018 12:05 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(03-01-2018 12:05 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 11:53 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 06:54 PM)Wedge Wrote:  That article has an extremely rosy MWC spin. Gonzaga's RPI is "dragged down" by the bottom of the WCC? The answer to that problem is not the bottom of the MWC: CSU at 215, AFA at 239, and SJSU at 304 is an extremely small "improvement" over Loyola at 260, Portland at 275, and Pepperdine at 325. "Assuming San Diego State, UNLV and New Mexico can return to their past levels" -- C'mon. They're all struggling now. Assuming that all of them will somehow start to win every year as much as they did in their best two or three years out of the past 20 or 30 years is not a reasonable assumption, it's just a dream. The best argument that you could make for the MWC over the WCC is that most of the MWC's bottom feeders at least have the ambition to become much better in men's hoops at some point in the future, whereas I don't know that you could say that about Portland or Pepperdine.

But if this ever did happen, then it would be another potential extinction event for the WAC. Seattle would undoubtedly move to the WCC if they have to replace the Zags.

Also, I know that we should never expect anyone to "do the right thing" in college sports, but if the MWC is really looking to add new members to beef up their basketball, NMSU should be on the list.


The key isnt the bottom of either conference. The key is the top. It allows 2 conferences with narrow tops to increase the number of quality RPI games during the conference season.

I just talked about this in the G5 reorganization thread. The point I was making it it makes sense for the top non-power basketball schools (especially the ones that dont play football) to coalesce as it will improve their "at large" chances by improving their conference schedule. It makes sense for the top programs (like BYU, VCU, Wichita, Gonzaga, etc) to join up with the best non-power league in thier side of the country. Say the top 2 or 3 non-football programs in the east join the AAC. The top two or 3 non-football playing basketball programs in the west would gravitate to the MW. Its the best way for the top non-power basketball programs to avoid a conference schedule that drags down thier resume.

To add to that it is pretty much proven that a Top 20 program which moves from one of those conferences will maintain it moving to the G5 conference. For example Wichita moving its ranked program directly to the AAC. A direct shot in the arm for the AAC.

But from the perspective of Wichita or Gonzaga its about ensuring long term survival of their athletic department being tied to an FBS conference. Conferences with national TV deals because they have FBS football and legitimate futures.

Is it time for the MAC to also think about its little mid-major region about possibly going to 16 in basketball to become multibid? SLU, Bradley, Loyola, Valpo to double down in the Chicago market? It could prevent Buffalo from leaving some day.

St Louis and Dayton would seem like nice choices for the MAC if they were interested. If you do that, then jumping back to 14 with WKU and MTSU looks like the next logical move. Or perhaps, quietly put the 4 team move together and then announce it. You have a pretty interesting basketball conference at that point---and you've also probably given football a boost as well.
(This post was last modified: 03-01-2018 12:12 AM by Attackcoog.)
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