Doesn't the RPI have a secret formula as a punishment for D-II? That's what I read once.

(04-05-2018 02:01 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  How about softening the blow when Gonzaga comes back down to reality? If they become just another WCC team again, they may never contend for a national title again. If they become a lower echelon MWC team, it's far more likely and more quick that they become a power again and contend for a national title, as a couple MWC teams have done before (the difference between those teams and the WCC teams that have is they're giant state flagships or close enough with lots of resources).

Besides, I'm sure they could keep some kind of academic connection with them.

MWC teams have contended for a national title? When? No MWC school has gotten past the sweet 16. Gonzaga has already done more in the WCC than any MWC school has done in the MWC. Gonzaga has played for a national championship. The have been a #1 seed.

Gonzaga already has a larger basketball budget than any MWC school and the large state schools are dealing with constant budget cuts. They are a small private school, but they commit a larger portion of their funds to basketball. They have shown financial commitment, astute hiring, strong marketing and top-level performance on the floor.

They made a $4.8 million profit from basketball in 2016 and they will make more in the future. It would have been huge for the MWC if they could have added Gonzaga, but Gonzaga is doing very well in the WCC. They just did not need the MWC.

(04-05-2018 01:30 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Doesn't the RPI have a secret formula as a punishment for D-II? That's what I read once.

Only that it doesn't count.

Two teams play ten games. One plays only D1, and the other plays a D2. They win nine of their ten games (and the one wins the D2 game). Metrically, however, the records will look 9/10 to 8/9. Not hinging on the quality of the wins, which may cover the gap, it's just a better win percentage, an added boost.

That's not what I remember reading. Maybe it has changed.

KenPom has an aggregate replacement for any D2 on the schedule, I think.

(04-05-2018 01:40 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(04-05-2018 02:01 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  How about softening the blow when Gonzaga comes back down to reality? If they become just another WCC team again, they may never contend for a national title again. If they become a lower echelon MWC team, it's far more likely and more quick that they become a power again and contend for a national title, as a couple MWC teams have done before (the difference between those teams and the WCC teams that have is they're giant state flagships or close enough with lots of resources).

Besides, I'm sure they could keep some kind of academic connection with them.

MWC teams have contended for a national title? When? No MWC school has gotten past the sweet 16. Gonzaga has already done more in the WCC than any MWC school has done in the MWC. Gonzaga has played for a national championship. The have been a #1 seed.

Gonzaga already has a larger basketball budget than any MWC school and the large state schools are dealing with constant budget cuts. They are a small private school, but they commit a larger portion of their funds to basketball. They have shown financial commitment, astute hiring, strong marketing and top-level performance on the floor.

They made a $4.8 million profit from basketball in 2016 and they will make more in the future. It would have been huge for the MWC if they could have added Gonzaga, but Gonzaga is doing very well in the WCC. They just did not need the MWC.

Just because they haven't doesn't mean they can't. SDSU had a really good team with Kawhi Leonard that was eliminated in the Sweet 16 by eventual champion UConn. Utah made it to the title game the year before the conference existed. The achievement isn't there but the potential is there.

No one in the WCC has been to the Sweet 16 in the modern era except Gonzaga, Loyola Marymount once and SMC once.

(04-05-2018 02:16 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  That's not what I remember reading. Maybe it has changed.

Non-D1 games are treated by RPI as not having happened. It's one of the RPI's weaknesses: Not only are non-NCAA games often less harmful to your rating than beating a sub-250 team, losing a non-NCAA game is often less harmful. If the RPI won't rank all the way down through at least D3 like Massey, then there should be some sort of standard rating for D2, D3, NAIA and non-NCAA/NAIA. Otherwise, why bother playing a team below say 200 when you can get a free pass playing Donny's Trucking Institute and Glory to the Highest University, with offices in room 304 of the Extended Stay America in Greensboro, N.C.?

(04-05-2018 01:40 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(04-05-2018 02:01 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  How about softening the blow when Gonzaga comes back down to reality? If they become just another WCC team again, they may never contend for a national title again. If they become a lower echelon MWC team, it's far more likely and more quick that they become a power again and contend for a national title, as a couple MWC teams have done before (the difference between those teams and the WCC teams that have is they're giant state flagships or close enough with lots of resources).

Besides, I'm sure they could keep some kind of academic connection with them.

MWC teams have contended for a national title? When? No MWC school has gotten past the sweet 16. Gonzaga has already done more in the WCC than any MWC school has done in the MWC. Gonzaga has played for a national championship. The have been a #1 seed.

Gonzaga already has a larger basketball budget than any MWC school and the large state schools are dealing with constant budget cuts. They are a small private school, but they commit a larger portion of their funds to basketball. They have shown financial commitment, astute hiring, strong marketing and top-level performance on the floor.

They made a $4.8 million profit from basketball in 2016 and they will make more in the future. It would have been huge for the MWC if they could have added Gonzaga, but Gonzaga is doing very well in the WCC. They just did not need the MWC.

Well technically Wyoming and UNLV are NCAA Championship winners.
But there wasn’t a MWC then either....

(04-05-2018 03:02 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(04-05-2018 02:16 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  That's not what I remember reading. Maybe it has changed.

Non-D1 games are treated by RPI as not having happened. It's one of the RPI's weaknesses: Not only are non-NCAA games often less harmful to your rating than beating a sub-250 team, losing a non-NCAA game is often less harmful. If the RPI won't rank all the way down through at least D3 like Massey, then there should be some sort of standard rating for D2, D3, NAIA and non-NCAA/NAIA. Otherwise, why bother playing a team below say 200 when you can get a free pass playing Donny's Trucking Institute and Glory to the Highest University, with offices in room 304 of the Extended Stay America in Greensboro, N.C.?

Let's say you play 31 games and go 20-11 but two wins are vs non-Division I.
Your winning percentage is .645 but the RPI considers you .620.
If you played two more Division I schools and lost both, you come out way ahead playing the Division II schools, because you'd be .581 going 18-13 vs Division I.
If you played two more Division I schools and split them, you still come out ahead playing the Division II schools and winning both because you'd be 19-12 .613.

The only punishment you get is if you were good enough to have won two more Division I games and been .645.

(04-05-2018 03:02 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(04-05-2018 02:16 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  That's not what I remember reading. Maybe it has changed.

Non-D1 games are treated by RPI as not having happened. It's one of the RPI's weaknesses: Not only are non-NCAA games often less harmful to your rating than beating a sub-250 team, losing a non-NCAA game is often less harmful. If the RPI won't rank all the way down through at least D3 like Massey, then there should be some sort of standard rating for D2, D3, NAIA and non-NCAA/NAIA. Otherwise, why bother playing a team below say 200 when you can get a free pass playing Donny's Trucking Institute and Glory to the Highest University, with offices in room 304 of the Extended Stay America in Greensboro, N.C.?

Under PRwolfe, D2 Lincoln Memorial have been in the top 100 overall schools. Only carleton in Canada was higher than them.

Overall Final Strenght Rank

76.Carleton in Canada was highest ranked none D1 school.

Northern State finished 119th as the highest D2 school with Ferris State won the men's tournament.

124 Lincoln Memorial NCAA-II 23.76 0.916 0.891 3170 2306 32 2 fell out of the top 100 with their lost in the tournament.

159 Western Oregon NCAA-II 21.21 0.893 0.866 2749 2208 31 2
160 West Texas A&M NCAA-II 21.21 0.828 0.866 3268 2749 32 5

PRWolfe does give credit for D2 schools who beat D1. Lets say Villanova won by 1 point to Lincoln Memorial? Under PRWolfe would give Villanova big points for SOS for beating the number 1 team in D2 by 1 point. As it is, there is really no differences between the top of D2 from the D1 schools. Gonzaga, Saint Mary's and others must play schools like Western Oregon, West Texas A&M, UC-San Diego, Western Washington and so forth that are in the top 25 in D2 for them to get credit. P5 schools get credit for playing North Dakota State or the other top teams in FCS for the SoS. I think they should do the same with the top D2 schools since they are sometimes way better than a lot of bottom feeders in D1.

(04-05-2018 03:46 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(04-05-2018 03:02 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(04-05-2018 02:16 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  That's not what I remember reading. Maybe it has changed.

Non-D1 games are treated by RPI as not having happened. It's one of the RPI's weaknesses: Not only are non-NCAA games often less harmful to your rating than beating a sub-250 team, losing a non-NCAA game is often less harmful. If the RPI won't rank all the way down through at least D3 like Massey, then there should be some sort of standard rating for D2, D3, NAIA and non-NCAA/NAIA. Otherwise, why bother playing a team below say 200 when you can get a free pass playing Donny's Trucking Institute and Glory to the Highest University, with offices in room 304 of the Extended Stay America in Greensboro, N.C.?

Let's say you play 31 games and go 20-11 but two wins are vs non-Division I.
Your winning percentage is .645 but the RPI considers you .620.
If you played two more Division I schools and lost both, you come out way ahead playing the Division II schools, because you'd be .581 going 18-13 vs Division I.
If you played two more Division I schools and split them, you still come out ahead playing the Division II schools and winning both because you'd be 19-12 .613.

The only punishment you get is if you were good enough to have won two more Division I games and been .645.

Right and as we know mid majors typically don't schedule to be a Top 4 seed in the tourney unless it's a situation like Few has where he's had a program that he knows can compete every year.

A lot of them schedule light to gain confidence for conference play, finish in the top 3 of the conference with a good chance of winning the conference tournament.

It is what it is unless they can break through like Gonzaga or Wichita nationally.

After putting the screws to Monmouth a couple years ago, it shows that mids get hammered even if they schedule up and win some of those games


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Stop it, both Monmouth and Middle this year lost way too many bad games. Monmouth wasn't blank when it came to big wins but come on, they had too many bad losses.

(04-06-2018 03:32 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Stop it, both Monmouth and Middle this year lost way too many bad games. Monmouth wasn't blank when it came to big wins but come on, they had too many bad losses.

3 is too many? Monmouth had wins at UCLA, Norte Dame, and Georgetown. Also split with USC, lost at Dayton. Split with Iona (very good that year), and lost again to Iona in CCG. They had several good wins against major schools


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Georgetown was no good two years ago. Neither was UCLA. Even USC was a good win but not a great one.

They had too few good wins and too many bad losses. In addition to their 4 losses in MAAC play they also lost to Army. They deserved squat, just like Middle this year.

here's another tidbit regarding byu & the mwc having to do with sdsu...maybe the gonzaga gambit scared byu straight a little bit...

Aztecs, BYU to resume basketball series
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/spor...story.html

Monmouth had down year this year, young team. But 2017 team had a strong argument for at-large bid.

(03-13-2018 12:50 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Denver isn't getting into the MWC - ever. They suck and have no fans.

Suck? A bit harsh, no? Denver in recent years has consistently had one of the best non-football athletic departments in all of DI.

In 2016-17, they managed to pull off the rarest of the rare: a Final 4 appearance in each season of competition:
Fall 2016: Men's Soccer College Cup
Winter 2017: Men's Hockey National Champions
Spring 2017: Men's Lacrosse Final Four

Also, Denver and Seattle were stable mates in the WAC for one season back in 2013. Denver were co-champs and crushed the redhawks twice.

Denver= # of seasons in WAC= 1, championships= 1
Seattle- # of seasons in WAC= 6, championships= 0

Denver fans, and there are a number of loyal ones as at any private with athletics success, know the shortcomings of our programs, especially basketball, which is a work in progress. If your school were say, Gonzaga, then I could see where the smugness comes from. But given Seattle's own work in progress, it just looks hostile and petty.

Denver's the oddball of the west. I like them. Their overall sports program would strengthen most conferences, especially men's soccer. It's a shame the Big West allegedly insisted on both travel subs and additional sports. If it was just the subs, they would be a member today.

Unfortunately for the Pios, their strong Olympic sports profile is also their biggest drawback. The focus on hockey, lacrosse, skiing and gymnastics doesn't help anyone out west. Denver would have the fewest MW sponsored sports with 9 if they were a member.

Denver would be a great add to any conference. I’d like to see them in the WCC. Bring them with a Seattle. As a Zags fan, I’m not bothered by Seattle’s inclusion in the conference. That would give us 12. For Gonzaga, mandate we play St. Mary’s and BYU twice each basketball season and I’d be okay with the rest.