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AAC 'Power Six' push, UCF title claim irritate at least some Group of Five brethren
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #41
RE: AAC 'Power Six' push, UCF title claim irritate at least some Group of Five brethren
(03-01-2018 08:57 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 08:39 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Being a P conference is not having to advertise that you're a P conference

Tell that to all the Bama fans who get so defensive when it is pointed out UCF won the national title per at least one legit (former BCS) poll.

Laughing at UCF isn't being 'defensive'. 03-lmfao

Colley-Matrix isn't a poll, it's a computer, and it means nothing to be chosen #1 by a computer.

Heck, Alabama was chosen #1 in a bunch of computers last year after they lost the title game to Clemson. For UCF to claim a title on the basis of CM is beyond absurd.
03-02-2018 07:16 AM
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Huskies12 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: AAC 'Power Six' push, UCF title claim irritate at least some Group of Five brethren
(03-01-2018 04:16 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 04:08 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 04:04 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 02:38 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  UCF
National Champions 2017

03-lmfao 03-lmfao

I didn't say I wouldn't laugh!

I just said I wouldn't have a problem with them trying to claim it.

I agree. FWIW, I don't care if ECU claims to be national champs for last year, it has just as much validity as UCF's claim, and neither impacts my day in any way.

It's just silly, though, like say the San Francisco 49ers claiming to be the "NFL Champs" even though Philly won the Super Bowl, because the Niners think they should have made the playoffs. It's just nonsense.

If San Francisco wants to make the playoffs all it has to do is win their games. UCF won all their games and wasn't allowed to compete for a National Championship. So it's not a good comparison.

When the 49ers go undefeated and don't make the playoffs let me know.
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2018 08:39 AM by Huskies12.)
03-02-2018 08:38 AM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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Post: #43
RE: AAC 'Power Six' push, UCF title claim irritate at least some Group of Five brethren
Frazier is wrong. And every breath he wasted with his stupid UCF comment was a breath he wasn't using to revive NIU's moribund overall Athletics program.

I believe Frazier thought NIU was a three year stop at most before a mid-level P5 came calling for him. Comments like this about UCF not knowing their place are a signal to the P5 that he is still a P5'r at heart, and please don't forget him down in the dregs of DeKalb and the MAC.
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2018 08:57 AM by Lord Stanley.)
03-02-2018 08:55 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #44
RE: AAC 'Power Six' push, UCF title claim irritate at least some Group of Five brethren
(03-02-2018 06:32 AM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 04:21 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 02:30 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Frankly, I find Frazier's comments FAR more damaging and demeaning to the G5 than the AAC marketing blitz. Of course, that's what FRazier really wants--the G5 to split off and be happy with some sort of worthless Pee Wee Playoff on BeIn.

I can't blame Aresco for his P6 campaign, he is way-overpaid by the AAC to promote its interest, and it is in the interest of the AAC to be viewed as superior to the other G5 conferences. He's just doing his job.

That said, I don't blame Frazier either, because he is doing his job too. As much as Aresco might want to say that the P6 campaign is about "ourselves" and not the rest of the G5, when you say you are above the rest of the G5, which "P6" definitely does do, then you are doing something that harms NIU and the rest of the G5. Because instead of being behind just 5 conferences, Aresco is saying they are actually behind 6 conferences.

So Frazier is correctly combating the AAC's "P6" campaign because it does harm his conference/school interests.

I get where he's coming from in removing the top average performer (on field, ratings, budgets, salaries, attendance, recruiting...) the remaining collective average declines. As he is a proponent of a separate G5 playoff which would assumably have a separate collective TV deal, it is beneficial, maybe even necessary, to have the top conference (real or perceived) involved.

The AAC has been the top performing G5, but performance really has nothing to do with it. It wouldn't matter if it was the AAC or Sun Belt claiming it was "P6", the effect is the same: It implies that the other members of the G5 are below yet another conference, so it is an 'attack' so to speak, on their interests.
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2018 09:08 AM by quo vadis.)
03-02-2018 09:08 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #45
RE: AAC 'Power Six' push, UCF title claim irritate at least some Group of Five brethren
(03-02-2018 08:38 AM)Huskies12 Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 04:16 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 04:08 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 04:04 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 02:38 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  UCF
National Champions 2017

03-lmfao 03-lmfao

I didn't say I wouldn't laugh!

I just said I wouldn't have a problem with them trying to claim it.

I agree. FWIW, I don't care if ECU claims to be national champs for last year, it has just as much validity as UCF's claim, and neither impacts my day in any way.

It's just silly, though, like say the San Francisco 49ers claiming to be the "NFL Champs" even though Philly won the Super Bowl, because the Niners think they should have made the playoffs. It's just nonsense.

If San Francisco wants to make the playoffs all it has to do is win their games. UCF won all their games and wasn't allowed to compete for a National Championship. So it's not a good comparison.

When the 49ers go undefeated and don't make the playoffs let me know.

It's an excellent comparison. The NFL could have a 32-team playoff and the 49ers therefore could have been in it, just like the CFP could be a 32-team playoff and UCF would have been in it.

Both missed the playoffs by the rules that govern who does and doesn't get in.

But even if UCF had a claim to be in the playoffs, it's still ridiculous to try and claim that because you were kept out of the playoffs and should have been in, that means you can claim equality ("a national title") with whoever did make the playoffs and won them.

At that point, you're giving yourself credit for something you didn't actually do - win the playoffs.
03-02-2018 09:13 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #46
RE: AAC 'Power Six' push, UCF title claim irritate at least some Group of Five brethren
(03-02-2018 07:16 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 08:57 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 08:39 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Being a P conference is not having to advertise that you're a P conference

Tell that to all the Bama fans who get so defensive when it is pointed out UCF won the national title per at least one legit (former BCS) poll.

Laughing at UCF isn't being 'defensive'. 03-lmfao

Colley-Matrix isn't a poll, it's a computer, and it means nothing to be chosen #1 by a computer.

Heck, Alabama was chosen #1 in a bunch of computers last year after they lost the title game to Clemson. For UCF to claim a title on the basis of CM is beyond absurd.
They are claiming it as a statement on the fact that they had no shot to prove it on the field even though they deserved a shot to prove it on the field. It is a statement on the absurdity of having a sports league where half of its conference champions are eliminated from contention before the season begins. It was a good statement and it was successful in drawing widespread attention to the point.

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03-02-2018 09:13 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #47
RE: AAC 'Power Six' push, UCF title claim irritate at least some Group of Five brethren
(03-02-2018 09:13 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 07:16 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 08:57 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 08:39 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Being a P conference is not having to advertise that you're a P conference

Tell that to all the Bama fans who get so defensive when it is pointed out UCF won the national title per at least one legit (former BCS) poll.

Laughing at UCF isn't being 'defensive'. 03-lmfao

Colley-Matrix isn't a poll, it's a computer, and it means nothing to be chosen #1 by a computer.

Heck, Alabama was chosen #1 in a bunch of computers last year after they lost the title game to Clemson. For UCF to claim a title on the basis of CM is beyond absurd.
They are claiming it as a statement on the fact that they had no shot to prove it on the field even though they deserved a shot to prove it on the field. It is a statement on the absurdity of having a sports league where half of its conference champions are eliminated from contention before the season begins. It was a good statement and it was successful in drawing widespread attention to the point.

Seriously, has it actually proven any point? Is there a groundswell of yelling right now from the public demanding an 8 or 16 team playoff?

Nope. 07-coffee3
03-02-2018 09:16 AM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #48
RE: AAC 'Power Six' push, UCF title claim irritate at least some Group of Five brethren
(03-02-2018 07:16 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 08:57 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 08:39 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Being a P conference is not having to advertise that you're a P conference

Tell that to all the Bama fans who get so defensive when it is pointed out UCF won the national title per at least one legit (former BCS) poll.

Laughing at UCF isn't being 'defensive'. 03-lmfao

Colley-Matrix isn't a poll, it's a computer, and it means nothing to be chosen #1 by a computer.

Tell that to UCF's banner.

Quote:Heck, Alabama was chosen #1 in a bunch of computers last year after they lost the title game to Clemson. For UCF to claim a title on the basis of CM is beyond absurd.

Something like half the P5 claim national championships based on the same logic, the same NCAA-recognized list of selectors. It's not beyond absurd, it's just college-athletics-standard absurd.

In fact, it's a lot less absurd than Alabama's 1942, 1964 and 1973 national titles. Goose, gander, sauce.

And someone pointed out that the Northern Illinois AD was a Crimson Tide player. Where's that salt truck GIF?
03-02-2018 09:19 AM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #49
RE: AAC 'Power Six' push, UCF title claim irritate at least some Group of Five brethren
(03-02-2018 09:16 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 09:13 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 07:16 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 08:57 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 08:39 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Being a P conference is not having to advertise that you're a P conference

Tell that to all the Bama fans who get so defensive when it is pointed out UCF won the national title per at least one legit (former BCS) poll.

Laughing at UCF isn't being 'defensive'. 03-lmfao

Colley-Matrix isn't a poll, it's a computer, and it means nothing to be chosen #1 by a computer.

Heck, Alabama was chosen #1 in a bunch of computers last year after they lost the title game to Clemson. For UCF to claim a title on the basis of CM is beyond absurd.
They are claiming it as a statement on the fact that they had no shot to prove it on the field even though they deserved a shot to prove it on the field. It is a statement on the absurdity of having a sports league where half of its conference champions are eliminated from contention before the season begins. It was a good statement and it was successful in drawing widespread attention to the point.

Seriously, has it actually proven any point? Is there a groundswell of yelling right now from the public demanding an 8 or 16 team playoff?

Nope. 07-coffee3

No. But because UCF made a stink and claims a national title, it will be more memorable come 2024 or so when the CFP contracts are up for renewal than UCF's win over Baylor, or any of Boise State's BCS wins (Oklahoma game excepted).

There is no groundswell demanding 8 teams because nobody's talking about the structure of the CFP right now. In a few years, when the end of the contract is in sight, there probably will be a clamor for 8.
03-02-2018 09:22 AM
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gulfcoastgal Offline
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Post: #50
RE: AAC 'Power Six' push, at least some Group of Five brethren
(03-02-2018 09:08 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 06:32 AM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 04:21 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 02:30 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Frankly, I find Frazier's comments FAR more damaging and demeaning to the G5 than the AAC marketing blitz. Of course, that's what FRazier really wants--the G5 to split off and be happy with some sort of worthless Pee Wee Playoff on BeIn.

I can't blame Aresco for his P6 campaign, he is way-overpaid by the AAC to promote its interest, and it is in the interest of the AAC to be viewed as superior to the other G5 conferences. He's just doing his job.

That said, I don't blame Frazier either, because he is doing his job too. As much as Aresco might want to say that the P6 campaign is about "ourselves" and not the rest of the G5, when you say you are above the rest of the G5, which "P6" definitely does do, then you are doing something that harms NIU and the rest of the G5. Because instead of being behind just 5 conferences, Aresco is saying they are actually behind 6 conferences.

So Frazier is correctly combating the AAC's "P6" campaign because it does harm his conference/school interests.

I get where he's coming from in removing the top average performer (on field, ratings, budgets, salaries, attendance, recruiting...) the remaining collective average declines. As he is a proponent of a separate G5 playoff which would assumably have a separate collective TV deal, it is beneficial, maybe even necessary, to have the top conference (real or perceived) involved.

The AAC has been the top performing G5, but performance really has nothing to do with it. It wouldn't matter if it was the AAC or Sun Belt claiming it was "P6", the effect is the same: It implies that the other members of the G5 are below yet another conference, so it is an 'attack' so to speak, on their interests.

I disagree. He could watch the AAC go their own way and point and laugh all he wants and still try to rally the remaining schools form a coalition/playoff. There's nothing stopping him from doing that if he really thinks it's in his school's best interest. Obviously, it's jmo, but I seriously doubt he'd be as vocal if it was the SBC wanting no part of a G package deal.
03-02-2018 09:27 AM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: AAC 'Power Six' push, UCF title claim irritate at least some Group of Five brethren
03-lmfao
03-02-2018 09:48 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #52
RE: AAC 'Power Six' push, UCF title claim irritate at least some Group of Five brethren
(03-02-2018 09:19 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 07:16 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 08:57 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 08:39 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Being a P conference is not having to advertise that you're a P conference

Tell that to all the Bama fans who get so defensive when it is pointed out UCF won the national title per at least one legit (former BCS) poll.

Laughing at UCF isn't being 'defensive'. 03-lmfao

Colley-Matrix isn't a poll, it's a computer, and it means nothing to be chosen #1 by a computer.

Tell that to UCF's banner.

You understand that anyone can create a banner, right?

I just created a USF is #1 banner. Does that count too?

Surely, for the past 40 years, since the AP and Coaches both decided to do their final polls after the bowls, the ONLY valid claim to a share of a national title is if either the coaches or AP poll selected you, or if you won the BCS or CFP.

Nebraska and Michigan 1997? That's a split title. Both can claim a share.

UCF? None of that.

We know other title claims from the past are bogus. That doesn't make UCF's any less bogus. It's B-O-G-U-S. 07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2018 11:07 AM by quo vadis.)
03-02-2018 11:07 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #53
RE: AAC 'Power Six' push, UCF title claim irritate at least some Group of Five brethren
(03-02-2018 09:08 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 06:32 AM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 04:21 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 02:30 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Frankly, I find Frazier's comments FAR more damaging and demeaning to the G5 than the AAC marketing blitz. Of course, that's what FRazier really wants--the G5 to split off and be happy with some sort of worthless Pee Wee Playoff on BeIn.

I can't blame Aresco for his P6 campaign, he is way-overpaid by the AAC to promote its interest, and it is in the interest of the AAC to be viewed as superior to the other G5 conferences. He's just doing his job.

That said, I don't blame Frazier either, because he is doing his job too. As much as Aresco might want to say that the P6 campaign is about "ourselves" and not the rest of the G5, when you say you are above the rest of the G5, which "P6" definitely does do, then you are doing something that harms NIU and the rest of the G5. Because instead of being behind just 5 conferences, Aresco is saying they are actually behind 6 conferences.

So Frazier is correctly combating the AAC's "P6" campaign because it does harm his conference/school interests.

I get where he's coming from in removing the top average performer (on field, ratings, budgets, salaries, attendance, recruiting...) the remaining collective average declines. As he is a proponent of a separate G5 playoff which would assumably have a separate collective TV deal, it is beneficial, maybe even necessary, to have the top conference (real or perceived) involved.

The AAC has been the top performing G5, but performance really has nothing to do with it. It wouldn't matter if it was the AAC or Sun Belt claiming it was "P6", the effect is the same: It implies that the other members of the G5 are below yet another conference, so it is an 'attack' so to speak, on their interests.

Then most every conference is doing it. The Mountain West tag line was “Above the Rest”. The Sunbelts is “together we rise” (Rise? Above who?). CUSA at one time used “Where champions are born”. They all suggest superiority. P6 is basically just a play on the popular made up P5/G5 term. It’s actually kinda clever.
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2018 11:09 AM by Attackcoog.)
03-02-2018 11:08 AM
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Post: #54
RE: AAC 'Power Six' push, UCF title claim irritate at least some Group of Five brethren
(03-02-2018 07:16 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 08:57 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 08:39 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Being a P conference is not having to advertise that you're a P conference

Tell that to all the Bama fans who get so defensive when it is pointed out UCF won the national title per at least one legit (former BCS) poll.

Laughing at UCF isn't being 'defensive'. 03-lmfao

Colley-Matrix isn't a poll, it's a computer, and it means nothing to be chosen #1 by a computer.

Heck, Alabama was chosen #1 in a bunch of computers last year after they lost the title game to Clemson. For UCF to claim a title on the basis of CM is beyond absurd.

Most SEC schools do the same thing.
03-02-2018 11:20 AM
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Post: #55
RE: AAC 'Power Six' push, UCF title claim irritate at least some Group of Five brethren
(03-02-2018 09:13 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 08:38 AM)Huskies12 Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 04:16 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 04:08 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 04:04 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  03-lmfao 03-lmfao

I didn't say I wouldn't laugh!

I just said I wouldn't have a problem with them trying to claim it.

I agree. FWIW, I don't care if ECU claims to be national champs for last year, it has just as much validity as UCF's claim, and neither impacts my day in any way.

It's just silly, though, like say the San Francisco 49ers claiming to be the "NFL Champs" even though Philly won the Super Bowl, because the Niners think they should have made the playoffs. It's just nonsense.

If San Francisco wants to make the playoffs all it has to do is win their games. UCF won all their games and wasn't allowed to compete for a National Championship. So it's not a good comparison.

When the 49ers go undefeated and don't make the playoffs let me know.

It's an excellent comparison. The NFL could have a 32-team playoff and the 49ers therefore could have been in it, just like the CFP could be a 32-team playoff and UCF would have been in it.

Both missed the playoffs by the rules that govern who does and doesn't get in.

But even if UCF had a claim to be in the playoffs, it's still ridiculous to try and claim that because you were kept out of the playoffs and should have been in, that means you can claim equality ("a national title") with whoever did make the playoffs and won them.

At that point, you're giving yourself credit for something you didn't actually do - win the playoffs.

No, they are just saying that its still an MNC. So they have a right to claim it. Nobody else went unbeaten. I think its silly, but your argument against it is wrong. The rules are not inclusive. They are stacked in favor of the P5. The committee is stacked in favor of the Big 10, SEC and Pac 12 (not that it has helped the P12 much).
03-02-2018 11:22 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #56
RE: AAC 'Power Six' push, at least some Group of Five brethren
(03-02-2018 09:27 AM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 09:08 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 06:32 AM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 04:21 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 02:30 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Frankly, I find Frazier's comments FAR more damaging and demeaning to the G5 than the AAC marketing blitz. Of course, that's what FRazier really wants--the G5 to split off and be happy with some sort of worthless Pee Wee Playoff on BeIn.

I can't blame Aresco for his P6 campaign, he is way-overpaid by the AAC to promote its interest, and it is in the interest of the AAC to be viewed as superior to the other G5 conferences. He's just doing his job.

That said, I don't blame Frazier either, because he is doing his job too. As much as Aresco might want to say that the P6 campaign is about "ourselves" and not the rest of the G5, when you say you are above the rest of the G5, which "P6" definitely does do, then you are doing something that harms NIU and the rest of the G5. Because instead of being behind just 5 conferences, Aresco is saying they are actually behind 6 conferences.

So Frazier is correctly combating the AAC's "P6" campaign because it does harm his conference/school interests.

I get where he's coming from in removing the top average performer (on field, ratings, budgets, salaries, attendance, recruiting...) the remaining collective average declines. As he is a proponent of a separate G5 playoff which would assumably have a separate collective TV deal, it is beneficial, maybe even necessary, to have the top conference (real or perceived) involved.

The AAC has been the top performing G5, but performance really has nothing to do with it. It wouldn't matter if it was the AAC or Sun Belt claiming it was "P6", the effect is the same: It implies that the other members of the G5 are below yet another conference, so it is an 'attack' so to speak, on their interests.

I disagree. He could watch the AAC go their own way and point and laugh all he wants and still try to rally the remaining schools form a coalition/playoff. There's nothing stopping him from doing that if he really thinks it's in his school's best interest. Obviously, it's jmo, but I seriously doubt he'd be as vocal if it was the SBC wanting no part of a G package deal.

Crabs in a bucket.

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03-02-2018 11:23 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #57
RE: AAC 'Power Six' push, UCF title claim irritate at least some Group of Five brethren
(03-02-2018 09:27 AM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 09:08 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 06:32 AM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 04:21 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 02:30 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Frankly, I find Frazier's comments FAR more damaging and demeaning to the G5 than the AAC marketing blitz. Of course, that's what FRazier really wants--the G5 to split off and be happy with some sort of worthless Pee Wee Playoff on BeIn.

I can't blame Aresco for his P6 campaign, he is way-overpaid by the AAC to promote its interest, and it is in the interest of the AAC to be viewed as superior to the other G5 conferences. He's just doing his job.

That said, I don't blame Frazier either, because he is doing his job too. As much as Aresco might want to say that the P6 campaign is about "ourselves" and not the rest of the G5, when you say you are above the rest of the G5, which "P6" definitely does do, then you are doing something that harms NIU and the rest of the G5. Because instead of being behind just 5 conferences, Aresco is saying they are actually behind 6 conferences.

So Frazier is correctly combating the AAC's "P6" campaign because it does harm his conference/school interests.

I get where he's coming from in removing the top average performer (on field, ratings, budgets, salaries, attendance, recruiting...) the remaining collective average declines. As he is a proponent of a separate G5 playoff which would assumably have a separate collective TV deal, it is beneficial, maybe even necessary, to have the top conference (real or perceived) involved.

The AAC has been the top performing G5, but performance really has nothing to do with it. It wouldn't matter if it was the AAC or Sun Belt claiming it was "P6", the effect is the same: It implies that the other members of the G5 are below yet another conference, so it is an 'attack' so to speak, on their interests.

I disagree. He could watch the AAC go their own way and point and laugh all he wants and still try to rally the remaining schools form a coalition/playoff. There's nothing stopping him from doing that if he really thinks it's in his school's best interest. Obviously, it's jmo, but I seriously doubt he'd be as vocal if it was the SBC wanting no part of a G package deal.

... but putting the playoff package aside, if the Sun Belt was claiming to be a Power conference, i think he'd object to that, because it does challenge NIU interests.
03-02-2018 11:39 AM
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Post: #58
RE: AAC 'Power Six' push, UCF title claim irritate at least some Group of Five brethren
(03-02-2018 11:07 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 09:19 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 07:16 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 08:57 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 08:39 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Being a P conference is not having to advertise that you're a P conference

Tell that to all the Bama fans who get so defensive when it is pointed out UCF won the national title per at least one legit (former BCS) poll.

Laughing at UCF isn't being 'defensive'. 03-lmfao

Colley-Matrix isn't a poll, it's a computer, and it means nothing to be chosen #1 by a computer.

Tell that to UCF's banner.

You understand that anyone can create a banner, right?

I just created a USF is #1 banner. Does that count too?

Surely, for the past 40 years, since the AP and Coaches both decided to do their final polls after the bowls, the ONLY valid claim to a share of a national title is if either the coaches or AP poll selected you, or if you won the BCS or CFP.

Nebraska and Michigan 1997? That's a split title. Both can claim a share.

UCF? None of that.

We know other title claims from the past are bogus. That doesn't make UCF's any less bogus. It's B-O-G-U-S. 07-coffee3

I would consider it the only valid claim, but opinions can differ. Those polls have their biases. One computer poll listed in the NCAA record book-Rothman's FACT often declared multiple national champions. 1977 was Notre Dame, Arkansas and Texas. Another non-computer system listed, the National Championship Foundation in 1981 had Clemson, Nebraska, Pitt, SMU and Texas. Note that Texas doesn't claim either of those.

In 1982 Penn St. was first in all but a couple of polls (Berryman had Nebraska and Helms had SMU), but SMU did have a better record than Penn St. 11-0-1 with only a tie to #8 Arkansas while Penn St. lost by 21 to #17 Alabama. Auburn could also point to 2004 where USC was unanimous but did get that title vacated. Auburn didn't get a chance to play. In both those cases, schools with a history of getting on probation were lower ranked (not that there weren't other good reasons for the rankings).
03-02-2018 11:42 AM
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Post: #59
RE: AAC 'Power Six' push, UCF title claim irritate at least some Group of Five brethren
(03-02-2018 11:08 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 09:08 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 06:32 AM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 04:21 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 02:30 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Frankly, I find Frazier's comments FAR more damaging and demeaning to the G5 than the AAC marketing blitz. Of course, that's what FRazier really wants--the G5 to split off and be happy with some sort of worthless Pee Wee Playoff on BeIn.

I can't blame Aresco for his P6 campaign, he is way-overpaid by the AAC to promote its interest, and it is in the interest of the AAC to be viewed as superior to the other G5 conferences. He's just doing his job.

That said, I don't blame Frazier either, because he is doing his job too. As much as Aresco might want to say that the P6 campaign is about "ourselves" and not the rest of the G5, when you say you are above the rest of the G5, which "P6" definitely does do, then you are doing something that harms NIU and the rest of the G5. Because instead of being behind just 5 conferences, Aresco is saying they are actually behind 6 conferences.

So Frazier is correctly combating the AAC's "P6" campaign because it does harm his conference/school interests.

I get where he's coming from in removing the top average performer (on field, ratings, budgets, salaries, attendance, recruiting...) the remaining collective average declines. As he is a proponent of a separate G5 playoff which would assumably have a separate collective TV deal, it is beneficial, maybe even necessary, to have the top conference (real or perceived) involved.

The AAC has been the top performing G5, but performance really has nothing to do with it. It wouldn't matter if it was the AAC or Sun Belt claiming it was "P6", the effect is the same: It implies that the other members of the G5 are below yet another conference, so it is an 'attack' so to speak, on their interests.

Then most every conference is doing it. The Mountain West tag line was “Above the Rest”. The Sunbelts is “together we rise” (Rise? Above who?). CUSA at one time used “Where champions are born”. They all suggest superiority. P6 is basically just a play on the popular made up P5/G5 term. It’s actually kinda clever.

It's not the same. "Above the rest' is amorphous and coukd just as easily apply to P5 as G5.

But the Aresco campaign is specific: it clearly is aimed at the other G5.
03-02-2018 11:43 AM
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Post: #60
RE: AAC 'Power Six' push, UCF title claim irritate at least some Group of Five brethren
This Frazier is an idiot.

The AAC by calling themselves a P6 is putting pressure on the system to open up. Even if all it amounted to was the AAC getting a contract bowl, it would force the NY6 to expand to a NY8 which means more money for everybody and more major bowls the MAC can play in with the access bid.

The system opening could mean NY8 and a second access bid for the G5. That would make CCG interesting as going down to the wire MWC, MAC, CUSA, SBC champs have a real chance of making it depending on how those games play out.

As to national championship access, G5 fans do not care about that as much as at least feeling like they are playing for a major bowl game. An NY8 with 2 access bids plus a second tier of Holiday, Sun, Independence for a 8 or 9 win G5 champions against a 7 or 8 win P5 is a happy medium.
03-02-2018 11:50 AM
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