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Miami sued Arkansas State BEFORE AState sued them
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arkstfan Away
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Miami sued Arkansas State BEFORE AState sued them
03-05-2018 01:26 PM
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RE: Miami sued Arkansas State BEFORE AState sued them
(03-05-2018 01:26 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  https://247sports.com/college/arkansas-s...-115865052

Trying to choose the venue and drive up Arkansas St.'s legal costs.
03-05-2018 01:31 PM
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RE: Miami sued Arkansas State BEFORE AState sued them
(03-05-2018 01:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 01:26 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  https://247sports.com/college/arkansas-s...-115865052

Trying to choose the venue and drive up Arkansas St.'s legal costs.

If Florida permits admission pro hoc vice the only legal costs for AState will be flying counsel in for appearances.
03-05-2018 01:40 PM
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RE: Miami sued Arkansas State BEFORE AState sued them
So where are the Miami defenders now? This is 100% on Miami. Miami should be forced to play a game at ASU in the next two years, or pay double buyout. Typical P5 douchebaggery.
03-05-2018 01:59 PM
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RE: Miami sued Arkansas State BEFORE AState sued them
(03-05-2018 01:59 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  So where are the Miami defenders now? This is 100% on Miami. Miami should be forced to play a game at ASU in the next two years, or pay double buyout. Typical P5 douchebaggery.

How is this "100% on Miami"?

Miami claims that ARK-ST was threatening to sue for damages, so they sued first to try and force the venue, like ARK-ST has done with their Arkansas filing. Both sides have sued each other.
(This post was last modified: 03-05-2018 02:32 PM by quo vadis.)
03-05-2018 02:31 PM
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RE: Miami sued Arkansas State BEFORE AState sued them
Now THAT is funny!
03-05-2018 02:35 PM
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RE: Miami sued Arkansas State BEFORE AState sued them
(03-05-2018 02:31 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 01:59 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  So where are the Miami defenders now? This is 100% on Miami. Miami should be forced to play a game at ASU in the next two years, or pay double buyout. Typical P5 douchebaggery.

How is this "100% on Miami"?

Miami claims that ARK-ST was threatening to sue for damages, so they sued first to try and force the venue, like ARK-ST has done with their Arkansas filing. Both sides have sued each other.


1) They could have played the game. FIU and FAU did under similar circumstances.

2) Since they cancelled, the game reschedule should be at a date of ASU's choosing, not Miami, who is trying to weasel out of a return game.

Had Miami manned up in the first place, these suits would not be needed.
03-05-2018 02:37 PM
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RE: Miami sued Arkansas State BEFORE AState sued them
(03-05-2018 02:37 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 02:31 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 01:59 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  So where are the Miami defenders now? This is 100% on Miami. Miami should be forced to play a game at ASU in the next two years, or pay double buyout. Typical P5 douchebaggery.

How is this "100% on Miami"?

Miami claims that ARK-ST was threatening to sue for damages, so they sued first to try and force the venue, like ARK-ST has done with their Arkansas filing. Both sides have sued each other.


1) They could have played the game. FIU and FAU did under similar circumstances.

2) Since they cancelled, the game reschedule should be at a date of ASU's choosing, not Miami, who is trying to weasel out of a return game.

That is your personal belief, but it's not what the contract says. It says it's to be made up by the mutual agreement of the two schools, not necessarily to the benefit of one or the other. Miami wants 2024/2025, AS wants 2020/2021.

They can't agree on dates, so settling it in court is really the only option.
03-05-2018 02:46 PM
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RE: Miami sued Arkansas State BEFORE AState sued them
(03-05-2018 02:37 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 02:31 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 01:59 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  So where are the Miami defenders now? This is 100% on Miami. Miami should be forced to play a game at ASU in the next two years, or pay double buyout. Typical P5 douchebaggery.

How is this "100% on Miami"?

Miami claims that ARK-ST was threatening to sue for damages, so they sued first to try and force the venue, like ARK-ST has done with their Arkansas filing. Both sides have sued each other.


1) They could have played the game. FIU and FAU did under similar circumstances.

2) Since they cancelled, the game reschedule should be at a date of ASU's choosing, not Miami, who is trying to weasel out of a return game.

Had Miami manned up in the first place, these suits would not be needed.

Even Arkansas State isn't arguing that. Arkansas State's argument is that Miami fails to understand the difference between "impossible" to schedule and "we prefer to not schedule it to fill that particular open date". Miami contends the early dates are impossible to use because Miami doesn't WANT to use those dates.

I think that particular argument by Miami is stupid because few judges will buy the idea that Miami is compelled to leave the early dates open in order to fill the dates with FCS games at home. Now if the desired date left Miami short of the NCAA mandated five home games, then Miami has an outstanding argument.

Miami was better off just saying the horribly drafted force majeure provision applied and then shutting up about rescheduling.
03-05-2018 03:13 PM
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RE: Miami sued Arkansas State BEFORE AState sued them
LOL at Quo, always taking the extreme TPC side (that would be Traditional Power Conference for those scoring at home).
03-05-2018 03:24 PM
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RE: Miami sued Arkansas State BEFORE AState sued them
Just pay the money for the buyout. There was no hurricane in Jonesboro. I'll bet Richt never wanted to play that game anyway. He probably just wanted to delay any payment for 10 years then pay the buyout 10 years from now when they refuse to travel to Jonesboro.

How about this, if the buyout clause for any new game was 20 million bucks, then maybe Ark State should allow the return game to be played in 2025. Plus interest on the original buyout clause for that 10 year period.
03-05-2018 03:39 PM
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RE: Miami sued Arkansas State BEFORE AState sued them
(03-05-2018 03:39 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Just pay the money for the buyout. There was no hurricane in Jonesboro. I'll bet Richt never wanted to play that game anyway. He probably just wanted to delay any payment for 10 years then pay the buyout 10 years from now when they refuse to travel to Jonesboro.

How about this, if the buyout clause for any new game was 20 million bucks, then maybe Ark State should allow the return game to be played in 2025. Plus interest on the original buyout clause for that 10 year period.

They did not want to play. Miami's DFO did a site visit deemed it all unacceptable, declared they couldn't play under those conditions, demanded AState give Miami the home locker rooms to use according to one of the people who helped with the site visit.
03-05-2018 04:17 PM
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RE: Miami sued Arkansas State BEFORE AState sued them
To clarify, Miami is asking for the court to declare:

1) whether the game at Arkansas St. was properly cancelled due to a force majeure event (Hurricane Irma);

2) whether Arkansas St. acted unreasonably in refusing to agree to one of the 2024 and 2025 available game dates;

3) whether Miami may be excused from having to reschedule the game at Arkansas St. (because of Arkansas St.'s refusal to agree to the 2024 or 2025 rescheduled date and its threat to sue for liquidated damages).

So, even if the judge rules that Miami is not excused from the second game at Arkansas St., Miami could get the judge to declare that the cancellation was justified and that Arkansas St. is unreasonable to refuse one of the 2024 or 2025 dates. This essentially forces the game in 2024 or 2025.

And, interesting to see that Miami filed first. First to file rule seems to favor Florida venue for this lawsuit, plus the arguments that it was an ACC contract drafted in Florida and became binding when Miami signed the contract in Florida.
03-05-2018 05:34 PM
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RE: Miami sued Arkansas State BEFORE AState sued them
(03-05-2018 05:34 PM)YNot Wrote:  To clarify, Miami is asking for the court to declare:

1) whether the game at Arkansas St. was properly cancelled due to a force majeure event (Hurricane Irma);

2) whether Arkansas St. acted unreasonably in refusing to agree to one of the 2024 and 2025 available game dates;

3) whether Miami may be excused from having to reschedule the game at Arkansas St. (because of Arkansas St.'s refusal to agree to the 2024 or 2025 rescheduled date and its threat to sue for liquidated damages).

So, even if the judge rules that Miami is not excused from the second game at Arkansas St., Miami could get the judge to declare that the cancellation was justified and that Arkansas St. is unreasonable to refuse one of the 2024 or 2025 dates. This essentially forces the game in 2024 or 2025.

And, interesting to see that Miami filed first. First to file rule seems to favor Florida venue for this lawsuit, plus the arguments that it was an ACC contract drafted in Florida and became binding when Miami signed the contract in Florida.

Yea but then why would it be unreasonable for Miami to offer up the year 2125 as the make up date? I think that State is going to win this one, if it turns on available dates.

You see, there's a calculatable economic cost to this. Arkansas State has been out the revenue for the game since last year. For Miami to unreasonably refuse to schedule it at the first opportunity requires Ark State to effectily forego that revenue for longer periods of time.

BTW, why not play the game in 2019 or 2020? Does Miami even have a coherent argument to refuse to do so?
03-05-2018 06:11 PM
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RE: Miami sued Arkansas State BEFORE AState sued them
(03-05-2018 06:11 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 05:34 PM)YNot Wrote:  To clarify, Miami is asking for the court to declare:

1) whether the game at Arkansas St. was properly cancelled due to a force majeure event (Hurricane Irma);

2) whether Arkansas St. acted unreasonably in refusing to agree to one of the 2024 and 2025 available game dates;

3) whether Miami may be excused from having to reschedule the game at Arkansas St. (because of Arkansas St.'s refusal to agree to the 2024 or 2025 rescheduled date and its threat to sue for liquidated damages).

So, even if the judge rules that Miami is not excused from the second game at Arkansas St., Miami could get the judge to declare that the cancellation was justified and that Arkansas St. is unreasonable to refuse one of the 2024 or 2025 dates. This essentially forces the game in 2024 or 2025.

And, interesting to see that Miami filed first. First to file rule seems to favor Florida venue for this lawsuit, plus the arguments that it was an ACC contract drafted in Florida and became binding when Miami signed the contract in Florida.

Yea but then why would it be unreasonable for Miami to offer up the year 2125 as the make up date? I think that State is going to win this one, if it turns on available dates.

You see, there's a calculatable economic cost to this. Arkansas State has been out the revenue for the game since last year. For Miami to unreasonably refuse to schedule it at the first opportunity requires Ark State to effectily forego that revenue for longer periods of time.

IMO, if ARK wins, it will not be because of dates, it will be because the court decides "force majeur" didn't apply, and Miami could have played.

I don't think that's likely either, but to me it's more likely than that ARK will win on the dates. The contract says zero about playing sooner rather than later. It doesn't say that the home team of a canceled game is entitled to play so as to maximize their economics regardless of how that impacts on the away team, and rightly so, since the away team was not able to play.

Bottom line: If FM applies, Arkansas State isn't entitled to any consideration w/regard to rescheduling moreso than Miami, because Miami is 100% blameless for the cancellation.
(This post was last modified: 03-05-2018 06:25 PM by quo vadis.)
03-05-2018 06:24 PM
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RE: Miami sued Arkansas State BEFORE AState sued them
(03-05-2018 06:24 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 06:11 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 05:34 PM)YNot Wrote:  To clarify, Miami is asking for the court to declare:

1) whether the game at Arkansas St. was properly cancelled due to a force majeure event (Hurricane Irma);

2) whether Arkansas St. acted unreasonably in refusing to agree to one of the 2024 and 2025 available game dates;

3) whether Miami may be excused from having to reschedule the game at Arkansas St. (because of Arkansas St.'s refusal to agree to the 2024 or 2025 rescheduled date and its threat to sue for liquidated damages).

So, even if the judge rules that Miami is not excused from the second game at Arkansas St., Miami could get the judge to declare that the cancellation was justified and that Arkansas St. is unreasonable to refuse one of the 2024 or 2025 dates. This essentially forces the game in 2024 or 2025.

And, interesting to see that Miami filed first. First to file rule seems to favor Florida venue for this lawsuit, plus the arguments that it was an ACC contract drafted in Florida and became binding when Miami signed the contract in Florida.

Yea but then why would it be unreasonable for Miami to offer up the year 2125 as the make up date? I think that State is going to win this one, if it turns on available dates.

You see, there's a calculatable economic cost to this. Arkansas State has been out the revenue for the game since last year. For Miami to unreasonably refuse to schedule it at the first opportunity requires Ark State to effectily forego that revenue for longer periods of time.

IMO, if ARK wins, it will not be because of dates, it will be because the court decides "force majeur" didn't apply, and Miami could have played.

I don't think that's likely either, but to me it's more likely than that ARK will win on the dates. The contract says zero about playing sooner rather than later. It doesn't say that the home team of a canceled game is entitled to play so as to maximize their economics regardless of how that impacts on the away team, and rightly so, since the away team was not able to play.

Bottom line: If FM applies, Arkansas State isn't entitled to any consideration w/regard to rescheduling moreso than Miami, because Miami is 100% blameless for the cancellation.

UM's definition of fm is pretty tenuous as well. They could lose on that too. FIU and FAU did play away games that weekend.

Look its clear that Richt doesn't want to play away games at G5 teams and his AD is too broke to simply just pay the payout.
03-05-2018 06:30 PM
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Post: #17
RE: Miami sued Arkansas State BEFORE AState sued them
(03-05-2018 06:30 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 06:24 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 06:11 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 05:34 PM)YNot Wrote:  To clarify, Miami is asking for the court to declare:

1) whether the game at Arkansas St. was properly cancelled due to a force majeure event (Hurricane Irma);

2) whether Arkansas St. acted unreasonably in refusing to agree to one of the 2024 and 2025 available game dates;

3) whether Miami may be excused from having to reschedule the game at Arkansas St. (because of Arkansas St.'s refusal to agree to the 2024 or 2025 rescheduled date and its threat to sue for liquidated damages).

So, even if the judge rules that Miami is not excused from the second game at Arkansas St., Miami could get the judge to declare that the cancellation was justified and that Arkansas St. is unreasonable to refuse one of the 2024 or 2025 dates. This essentially forces the game in 2024 or 2025.

And, interesting to see that Miami filed first. First to file rule seems to favor Florida venue for this lawsuit, plus the arguments that it was an ACC contract drafted in Florida and became binding when Miami signed the contract in Florida.

Yea but then why would it be unreasonable for Miami to offer up the year 2125 as the make up date? I think that State is going to win this one, if it turns on available dates.

You see, there's a calculatable economic cost to this. Arkansas State has been out the revenue for the game since last year. For Miami to unreasonably refuse to schedule it at the first opportunity requires Ark State to effectily forego that revenue for longer periods of time.

IMO, if ARK wins, it will not be because of dates, it will be because the court decides "force majeur" didn't apply, and Miami could have played.

I don't think that's likely either, but to me it's more likely than that ARK will win on the dates. The contract says zero about playing sooner rather than later. It doesn't say that the home team of a canceled game is entitled to play so as to maximize their economics regardless of how that impacts on the away team, and rightly so, since the away team was not able to play.

Bottom line: If FM applies, Arkansas State isn't entitled to any consideration w/regard to rescheduling moreso than Miami, because Miami is 100% blameless for the cancellation.

UM's definition of fm is pretty tenuous as well. They could lose on that too. FIU and FAU did play away games that weekend.

Look its clear that Richt doesn't want to play away games at G5 teams and his AD is too broke to simply just pay the payout.

The judge could easily focus on the natural disaster and emergency part of force majeure - the reason the clause is in the contract to begin with - more so than on the word "impossible" or what other universities did.

Do we really want legal precedence to cause university administrators to second guess scheduling and postponement decisions in a time of a threatening natural disaster and federal and state emergency?

I'm not as confident as Quo on the rescheduling issue. I think it is reasonable for Arkansas St. to demand Miami reschedule the game sooner. Miami has not proven the inability to play the game in 2021 - just a strong desire to have an FCS home game instead of a road game at Arkansas St.
03-05-2018 06:46 PM
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RE: Miami sued Arkansas State BEFORE AState sued them
(03-05-2018 06:46 PM)YNot Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 06:30 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 06:24 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 06:11 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 05:34 PM)YNot Wrote:  To clarify, Miami is asking for the court to declare:

1) whether the game at Arkansas St. was properly cancelled due to a force majeure event (Hurricane Irma);

2) whether Arkansas St. acted unreasonably in refusing to agree to one of the 2024 and 2025 available game dates;

3) whether Miami may be excused from having to reschedule the game at Arkansas St. (because of Arkansas St.'s refusal to agree to the 2024 or 2025 rescheduled date and its threat to sue for liquidated damages).

So, even if the judge rules that Miami is not excused from the second game at Arkansas St., Miami could get the judge to declare that the cancellation was justified and that Arkansas St. is unreasonable to refuse one of the 2024 or 2025 dates. This essentially forces the game in 2024 or 2025.

And, interesting to see that Miami filed first. First to file rule seems to favor Florida venue for this lawsuit, plus the arguments that it was an ACC contract drafted in Florida and became binding when Miami signed the contract in Florida.

Yea but then why would it be unreasonable for Miami to offer up the year 2125 as the make up date? I think that State is going to win this one, if it turns on available dates.

You see, there's a calculatable economic cost to this. Arkansas State has been out the revenue for the game since last year. For Miami to unreasonably refuse to schedule it at the first opportunity requires Ark State to effectily forego that revenue for longer periods of time.

IMO, if ARK wins, it will not be because of dates, it will be because the court decides "force majeur" didn't apply, and Miami could have played.

I don't think that's likely either, but to me it's more likely than that ARK will win on the dates. The contract says zero about playing sooner rather than later. It doesn't say that the home team of a canceled game is entitled to play so as to maximize their economics regardless of how that impacts on the away team, and rightly so, since the away team was not able to play.

Bottom line: If FM applies, Arkansas State isn't entitled to any consideration w/regard to rescheduling moreso than Miami, because Miami is 100% blameless for the cancellation.

UM's definition of fm is pretty tenuous as well. They could lose on that too. FIU and FAU did play away games that weekend.

Look its clear that Richt doesn't want to play away games at G5 teams and his AD is too broke to simply just pay the payout.

The judge could easily focus on the natural disaster and emergency part of force majeure - the reason the clause is in the contract to begin with - more so than on the word "impossible" or what other universities did.

Do we really want legal precedence to cause university administrators to second guess scheduling and postponement decisions in a time of a threatening natural disaster and federal and state emergency?

I'm not as confident as Quo on the rescheduling issue. I think it is reasonable for Arkansas St. to demand Miami reschedule the game sooner. Miami has not proven the inability to play the game in 2021 - just a strong desire to have an FCS home game instead of a road game at Arkansas St.

I think Richt just doesn't want to play the game and is too much of weasel to just pay the buyout. Its going to be hard for Miami to show

1) That they don't schedule games within 3 years (they do - repeatedly)
2) That they need to have seven home games (they don't)
3) That they had to cancel the game even though FIU and FAU both played their games
4) That they have the right to delay repaying Ark State indefinitely without cause. I don't think an impartial court is going to care that UM is a P5 and Ark State is a G5 and therefore Miami has some special rights in this regard.

Ark State has been exceedingly reasonable. But Richt and Da U are just being weasels. Play the game in 2021 or pay the money. Heck that still represents 4 years of float from Ark State to Miami for the revenue. Is Miami so hard up that they can't cough up the 800 grand.
(This post was last modified: 03-05-2018 07:17 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
03-05-2018 07:07 PM
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Post: #19
RE: Miami sued Arkansas State BEFORE AState sued them
(03-05-2018 06:46 PM)YNot Wrote:  I'm not as confident as Quo on the rescheduling issue. I think it is reasonable for Arkansas St. to demand Miami reschedule the game sooner. Miami has not proven the inability to play the game in 2021 - just a strong desire to have an FCS home game instead of a road game at Arkansas St.

True, but on the other hand, ARK hasn't proven an inability to play in 2024 either - the too just have a strong desire to play it sooner rather than later, and again, IMO the contract doesn't seem to say anything about playing sooner or later.

How about this: schedule it when Miami wants, in 2024, but boost the buyout significantly, from say $650k to $1 million. If Miami wants their preference then they can pay more for it.
03-05-2018 07:19 PM
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Post: #20
RE: Miami sued Arkansas State BEFORE AState sued them
I have no issue with what Miami did. ASU threatened a lawsuit and Miami decided to jump first. Sadly it is not about who is right but who is first to act. As stated previously, the moral thing should have been a buyout that was 450-500K buyout since it had the act of God clause but Miami did not want to reschedule. Legal has nothing to do with moral. Neither ASU or Miami are angels in this. ASU went public and Miami went to court first. ASU should have filed the lawsuit then went to press, that was a mistake. I don't feel bad for either program, both went win/lose instead of for win/win. Only thing for sure in pissing contest, both sides get pissed on. 03-puke
03-05-2018 07:51 PM
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