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Men's Basketball All Conference Teams Announced
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ODU BBALL Offline
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Men's Basketball All Conference Teams Announced
2017-18 ALL-CONFERENCE USA FIRST TEAM
Jon Elmore, Marshall, Jr., G, 6-3, 185, Charleston, West Virginia
Nick King, Middle Tennessee, Sr., F, 6-7, 225, Memphis, Tennessee
Ahmad Caver, Old Dominion, Jr., G, 6-2, 170, Atlanta, Georgia
Chris Cokley, UAB, Sr., F, 6-8, 238, Savannah, Georgia
Justin Johnson, WKU, Sr., F, 6-7, 245, Hazard, Kentucky

2017-18 ALL-CONFERENCE USA SECOND TEAM C.J. Burks, Marshall, Jr., G, 6-4, 195, Martinsburg, West Virginia
Giddy Potts, Middle Tennessee, Sr., G, 6-2, 217, Athens, Alabama
Roosevelt Smart, North Texas, So., G, 6-3, 185, Chicago, Illinois
Jhivvan Jackson, UTSA, Fr., G, 6-0, 160, Bayamón, Puerto Rico
Darius Thompson, WKU, Gr., 6-4, 190, Murfreesboro, Tennessee

2017-18 ALL-CONFERENCE USA THIRD TEAM Brian Beard Jr., FIU, Jr., G, 5-10, 180, Rancho Cucamonga, California
Ronald Delph, Florida Atlantic, R-Sr., C, 7-0, 245, Winter Haven, Florida
Jacobi Boykins, Louisiana Tech, Sr., G, 6-6, 175, St. Petersburg, Florida
Ajdin Penava, Marshall, Jr., F, 6-9, 220, Sarajevo, Bosnia & Herzegovina
B.J. Stith, Old Dominion, Jr., G, 6-5, 215, Lawrenceville, Virginia

2017-18 CONFERENCE USA ALL-FRESHMAN TEAM
Anthony Duruji, Louisiana Tech, Fr., F, 6-7, 198, Germantown, Maryland
Zack Bryant, UAB, Fr., G, 6-2, 180, Hastings, Florida
Jhivvan Jackson, UTSA, Fr., G, 6-0, 160, Bayamón, Puerto Rico
Keaton Wallace, UTSA, Fr., G, 6-3, 170, Dallas, Texas
Taveion Hollingsworth, WKU, Fr., G, 6-2, 175, Lexington, Kentucky

2017-18 CONFERENCE USA ALL-DEFENSIVE TEAM
Brian Beard Jr., FIU, Jr., G, 5-10, 180, Rancho Cucamonga, California
Ajdin Penava, Marshall, Jr., F, 6-9, 220, Sarajevo, Bosnia & Herzegovina
Tyrik Dixon, Middle Tennessee, So., G, 6-1, 184, Bentonville, Arkansas
Ahmad Caver, Old Dominion, Jr., G, 6-2, 170, Atlanta, Georgia
William Lee, UAB, Sr., F, 6-9, 206, Selma, Alabama
(This post was last modified: 03-05-2018 03:34 PM by ODU BBALL.)
03-05-2018 03:28 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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RE: Men's Basketball All Conference Teams Announced
How are these actually picked? I think throwing darts would be a slight improvement.
03-05-2018 03:32 PM
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MonarchManiac Online
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RE: Men's Basketball All Conference Teams Announced
Looks about right to me.
03-05-2018 03:32 PM
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KAjunRaider Offline
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RE: Men's Basketball All Conference Teams Announced
(03-05-2018 03:32 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  Looks about right to me.

Yeah, I'm cool with it.
03-05-2018 03:39 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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RE: Men's Basketball All Conference Teams Announced
(03-05-2018 03:39 PM)KAjunRaider Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 03:32 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  Looks about right to me.

Yeah, I'm cool with it.

Porter obviously deserved it. Not sure how Delph gets in over him (plus Porter put up 29/12 just last week vs. Delph)

Boykins is a first or second teamer, at worst; he doesn't get respect bc he doesn't have gaudy points per game.

Jackson is a good player that will be a star. Not 2nd team at this point.

Beard on the list is comical.

Walters should have been 3rd team.

How does Justin Johnson get first team? Hes borderline to even make the list. Coleby is a better player.
03-05-2018 03:47 PM
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busch Offline
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RE: Men's Basketball All Conference Teams Announced
(03-05-2018 03:32 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  How are these actually picked? I think throwing darts would be a slight improvement.

Voting done by all 12 coaches and a panel of media and play-by-play announcers.

What did you have a problem with? Just wondering.
03-05-2018 03:50 PM
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757ODU Offline
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RE: Men's Basketball All Conference Teams Announced
(03-05-2018 03:47 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 03:39 PM)KAjunRaider Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 03:32 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  Looks about right to me.

Yeah, I'm cool with it.

Porter obviously deserved it. Not sure how Delph gets in over him (plus Porter put up 29/12 just last week vs. Delph)

Boykins is a first or second teamer, at worst; he doesn't get respect bc he doesn't have gaudy points per game.

Jackson is a good player that will be a star. Not 2nd team at this point.

Beard on the list is comical.

Walters should have been 3rd team.

How does Justin Johnson get first team? Hes borderline to even make the list. Coleby is a better player.

WHAT?
03-05-2018 03:50 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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RE: Men's Basketball All Conference Teams Announced
(03-05-2018 03:50 PM)busch Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 03:32 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  How are these actually picked? I think throwing darts would be a slight improvement.

Voting done by all 12 coaches and a panel of media and play-by-play announcers.

What did you have a problem with? Just wondering.

Listed some reasons above. I don't really like meda and PBP announcers having a vote after listening to their commentary.
03-05-2018 03:51 PM
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UTSAMarineVet09 Offline
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RE: Men's Basketball All Conference Teams Announced
The future looks bright for UTSA
03-05-2018 03:52 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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RE: Men's Basketball All Conference Teams Announced
(03-05-2018 03:50 PM)757ODU Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 03:47 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 03:39 PM)KAjunRaider Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 03:32 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  Looks about right to me.

Yeah, I'm cool with it.

Porter obviously deserved it. Not sure how Delph gets in over him (plus Porter put up 29/12 just last week vs. Delph)

Boykins is a first or second teamer, at worst; he doesn't get respect bc he doesn't have gaudy points per game.

Jackson is a good player that will be a star. Not 2nd team at this point.

Beard on the list is comical.

Walters should have been 3rd team.

How does Justin Johnson get first team? Hes borderline to even make the list. Coleby is a better player.

WHAT?

ORating 120.4 -113
DRating 97.6-100
PER 22.9-20.3
TS% .640-.564
Rebounding% 16.5-16
BLK% 7.1-2.0
WS/140 .181-.153

The only thing Johnson is better at is hitting 1.8 3s per 100 possessions.
03-05-2018 03:54 PM
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busch Offline
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RE: Men's Basketball All Conference Teams Announced
(03-05-2018 03:51 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 03:50 PM)busch Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 03:32 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  How are these actually picked? I think throwing darts would be a slight improvement.

Voting done by all 12 coaches and a panel of media and play-by-play announcers.

What did you have a problem with? Just wondering.

Listed some reasons above. I don't really like meda and PBP announcers having a vote after listening to their commentary.
Sorry, I missed that before posting. Think you have some good points, absolutely disagree about Justin Johnson and Jhivann Jackson. Johnson is a definite first teamer in my opinion. I would have voted Porter over Delph also.
Personally, I like having media and announcers vote, especially ones who see every team and pay attention.
03-05-2018 03:57 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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RE: Men's Basketball All Conference Teams Announced
(03-05-2018 04:01 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  The all-defensive team is amusingly wrong, which I assume is because whoever votes just looks at steals and blocks. If you look purely at individual defense (i.e. PPP by the guy a player was guarding...a flawed stat in its own right but certainly more useful than blocks + steals), the players on the all-defensive teams rank as follows:

Beard = 39th
Penava = 52nd
Dixon = 92nd
Caver = 4th (he's actually a really good defender)
Lee = 48th

This is the same reason why Marcus Evans was picked all-defensive despite being a terrible defender both his freshman and sophomore years. If you looked at individual defense, the team would look something like this:

Justin Johnson
Ahmad Caver
Keaton Wallace
Byron Frohnen
Xavier Green or Alante Holston

I get that it's really hard to quantify defensive impact, especially because you can't measure stuff like how well a guy knows his zone assignments, for example, but I'd love for the conference to actually try to reward good individual defenders. And that's my weekly rant about something that is of absolutely no importance whatsoever and has no impact on anything.

Where did Boykins rank? I'm surprised he's not up there.
03-05-2018 04:02 PM
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herdfifteen Offline
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RE: Men's Basketball All Conference Teams Announced
(03-05-2018 03:50 PM)busch Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 03:32 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  How are these actually picked? I think throwing darts would be a slight improvement.

Voting done by all 12 coaches and a panel of media and play-by-play announcers.

What did you have a problem with? Just wondering.
I'm sure Jon Elmore being at the top of the list ruined his day.
03-05-2018 04:03 PM
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shiftyeagle Offline
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RE: Men's Basketball All Conference Teams Announced
I would say we got hosed but I can't even name a player on our team so
03-05-2018 04:15 PM
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ODU BBALL Offline
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RE: Men's Basketball All Conference Teams Announced
(03-05-2018 04:01 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  The all-defensive team is amusingly wrong, which I assume is because whoever votes just looks at steals and blocks. If you look purely at individual defense (i.e. PPP by the guy a player was guarding min 80 possessions...a flawed stat in its own right but certainly more useful than blocks + steals), the players on the all-defensive teams rank as follows:

Beard = 39th
Penava = 52nd
Dixon = 92nd
Caver = 4th (he's actually a really good defender)
Lee = 48th

This is the same reason why Marcus Evans was picked all-defensive despite being a terrible defender both his freshman and sophomore years. If you looked at individual defense, the team would look something like this:

Justin Johnson
Ahmad Caver
Keaton Wallace
Byron Frohnen
Xavier Green or Alante Holston

I get that it's really hard to quantify defensive impact, especially because you can't measure stuff like how well a guy knows his zone assignments, for example, but I'd love for the conference to actually try to reward good individual defenders. And that's my weekly rant about something that is of absolutely no importance whatsoever and has no impact on anything.

Xavier Green does not belong on an All Defensive Team, and I don't care who can pull up what stat that reflects he has good numbers. There are many others that play much better defense than he does. Not trying to knock him - he's only a freshman - but still.
03-05-2018 04:17 PM
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elw4796 Offline
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RE: Men's Basketball All Conference Teams Announced
(03-05-2018 04:02 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 04:01 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  The all-defensive team is amusingly wrong, which I assume is because whoever votes just looks at steals and blocks. If you look purely at individual defense (i.e. PPP by the guy a player was guarding...a flawed stat in its own right but certainly more useful than blocks + steals), the players on the all-defensive teams rank as follows:

Beard = 39th
Penava = 52nd
Dixon = 92nd
Caver = 4th (he's actually a really good defender)
Lee = 48th

This is the same reason why Marcus Evans was picked all-defensive despite being a terrible defender both his freshman and sophomore years. If you looked at individual defense, the team would look something like this:

Justin Johnson
Ahmad Caver
Keaton Wallace
Byron Frohnen
Xavier Green or Alante Holston

I get that it's really hard to quantify defensive impact, especially because you can't measure stuff like how well a guy knows his zone assignments, for example, but I'd love for the conference to actually try to reward good individual defenders. And that's my weekly rant about something that is of absolutely no importance whatsoever and has no impact on anything.

Where did Boykins rank? I'm surprised he's not up there.

Boykins is actually 108/109, surprisingly, considering he's been fine his entire career. I wanna emphasize that this doesn't mean he's a bad defender, just a bad defender when measuring end results. The data I'm using is flawed in the sense that it can only quantify possession-ending plays. So on plays where Boykins' man shoots, turns it over, draws a foul, etc., he's really struggled this year. You guys also gave up 1.04 PPP when he was on the court but only 0.96 when he was off the court.
(This post was last modified: 03-05-2018 04:35 PM by elw4796.)
03-05-2018 04:19 PM
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KAjunRaider Offline
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RE: Men's Basketball All Conference Teams Announced
MT's best on-ball defender is Ed Simpson............ but he lost his starting role to Antwain Johnson, due to his low-point production offensively
03-05-2018 04:23 PM
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WKUFan518 Offline
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RE: Men's Basketball All Conference Teams Announced
(03-05-2018 03:50 PM)757ODU Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 03:47 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 03:39 PM)KAjunRaider Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 03:32 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  Looks about right to me.

Yeah, I'm cool with it.

Porter obviously deserved it. Not sure how Delph gets in over him (plus Porter put up 29/12 just last week vs. Delph)

Boykins is a first or second teamer, at worst; he doesn't get respect bc he doesn't have gaudy points per game.

Jackson is a good player that will be a star. Not 2nd team at this point.

Beard on the list is comical.

Walters should have been 3rd team.

How does Justin Johnson get first team? Hes borderline to even make the list. Coleby is a better player.

WHAT?

Yes, exactly all creditability this guy has is gone...Nothing against Coleby but Justin is by far a better overall player than Dwight...Justin absolutely deserved first team...I think the teams are about right, not sure the love for Beard though? Also would have Hollingsworth on all Defensive Team....
03-05-2018 04:31 PM
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ThreeifbyLightning Online
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RE: Men's Basketball All Conference Teams Announced
Surprised Walters didn't at least make third team. I haven't looked at it statistically but imagine he's up there in rebounding. No one in the league could guard him but he was probably hurt by minutes due to foul trouble and King's volume of shots.
03-05-2018 04:32 PM
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elw4796 Offline
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RE: Men's Basketball All Conference Teams Announced
You know what, I'm actually deleting my post. Individual, result-exclusive defensive metrics are way too inaccurate. Using a combination of that + another source of data, I think I was a little harsh. Instead, the all-defensive team should be something like this:

Justin Johnson (good defender by any metric)
Ajdin Penava (the difference in Marshall's PPP allowed when he's on the court vs. off the court is remarkable)
Byron Frohnen (good by any metric)
Brian Beard (Same as Penava...FIU is substantially better defensively when he's on the floor)
Brandon Walters (Same as Penava and Beard)

Hollingsworth was also really impactful. As was Jailyn Ingram. And AJ Lawson.
(This post was last modified: 03-05-2018 04:42 PM by elw4796.)
03-05-2018 04:34 PM
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