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[Serious] WSU fans... thoughts on year one?
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firmbizzle Offline
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Post: #41
RE: [Serious] WSU fans... thoughts on year one?
(03-11-2018 09:52 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 09:46 PM)TripleA Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 09:36 PM)Agent Wu Wrote:  I thought it was a fun year. Conference play was very entertaining and fun. WSU got their 2nd best seed under Marshall, and this is probably one of his worst teams to make the NCAA.

I can see how AAC could be 4-5 seed league if some teams don't have some bad luck.

That still puzzles me. You won a NCAAT game last year, almost upset #2 seed Kentucky, and returned practically everybody, 10 deep, I think. And you were ranked as high as Top 5 this season.

So how can this be one of Marshall's worst teams ever to make the Dance?

Either the league was just tougher, or your team and its coach fell apart for some unexplained reason. Just curious what you think really happened?

I think their fans just thought they were going to waltz in here and walk over everybody. So when that didn't happen they just decided it was because their team isn't very good rather than give credit to the league for being about 2-3 steps up in competition.

This league is known for destroying great basketball programs. Ask UConn and Memphis. Hitachi State you're next. 07-coffee3 #tehdecline
03-12-2018 09:08 AM
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Shockem Offline
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Post: #42
RE: [Serious] WSU fans... thoughts on year one?
If we make it to the second weekend, i’d say we salvaged a slightly disappointing season. Disappointing is all relative but I was hoping to at least finish a strong 2nd and I think we finished as the 3rd best team.
03-12-2018 09:27 AM
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Wheatshock Offline
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Post: #43
RE: [Serious] WSU fans... thoughts on year one?
(03-11-2018 11:35 PM)AndShock Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 10:40 PM)shockerfan1313 Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 10:38 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 10:34 PM)shockerfan1313 Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 10:13 PM)Agent Wu Wrote:  Actually it is (KenPom rankings)

2018 - 20th
2017 - 8th
2016 - 13
2015 - 13
2014 - 6th
2013 - 17th
2012 - 11th
2011 - 27th (NIT Champions)

Different conference. Can't compare directly.

Quit being dramatic

KenPom adjusts for competition levels. So actually, you can.

The problem with his numbers though is that I imagine those numbers are post-tournament, not pre-tournament, which will likely inflate.

I get that. But I imagine we have more losses this year than most of those years. Which definitely drops the Kenpom even more.

I just don't think the "worst" team of Marshall's to make the tourney would have a 4 seed.

I mean I know we felt underseeded most years, but come on.

W/Ls don’t really affect KenPom, it’s how you play in them that matters. I’m curious how you would rank Marshall’s teams? This is mine:

2014
2013
2017
2012
2016
2018

2013, 2017, and 2012 are all really close, imo. I feel confident in the others.

At this point in the season. 2018 > 2013

Its funny how people forget that we went 12-6 in conference and got swept by Evansville. I know that injuries played a big part in that but it just goes to show you how much a tournament run changes perception.
03-12-2018 09:36 AM
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SHOCK_value Offline
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Post: #44
RE: [Serious] WSU fans... thoughts on year one?
(03-12-2018 09:36 AM)Wheatshock Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 11:35 PM)AndShock Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 10:40 PM)shockerfan1313 Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 10:38 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 10:34 PM)shockerfan1313 Wrote:  Different conference. Can't compare directly.

Quit being dramatic

KenPom adjusts for competition levels. So actually, you can.

The problem with his numbers though is that I imagine those numbers are post-tournament, not pre-tournament, which will likely inflate.

I get that. But I imagine we have more losses this year than most of those years. Which definitely drops the Kenpom even more.

I just don't think the "worst" team of Marshall's to make the tourney would have a 4 seed.

I mean I know we felt underseeded most years, but come on.

W/Ls don’t really affect KenPom, it’s how you play in them that matters. I’m curious how you would rank Marshall’s teams? This is mine:

2014
2013
2017
2012
2016
2018

2013, 2017, and 2012 are all really close, imo. I feel confident in the others.

At this point in the season. 2018 > 2013

Its funny how people forget that we went 12-6 in conference and got swept by Evansville. I know that injuries played a big part in that but it just goes to show you how much a tournament run changes perception.

The caveat there would be that back in 2013, the MVC’s RPI - as in the four or five digit decimal - was reasonably similar to where the AAC sits today. The AAC will improve, and is most certainly a buy stock right now, but there are a lot of quantitative similarities between the AAC today, and where the MVC sat through most of this century pre-2014.
03-12-2018 09:45 AM
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Wheatshock Offline
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Post: #45
RE: [Serious] WSU fans... thoughts on year one?
(03-12-2018 09:45 AM)SHOCK_value Wrote:  
(03-12-2018 09:36 AM)Wheatshock Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 11:35 PM)AndShock Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 10:40 PM)shockerfan1313 Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 10:38 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  KenPom adjusts for competition levels. So actually, you can.

The problem with his numbers though is that I imagine those numbers are post-tournament, not pre-tournament, which will likely inflate.

I get that. But I imagine we have more losses this year than most of those years. Which definitely drops the Kenpom even more.

I just don't think the "worst" team of Marshall's to make the tourney would have a 4 seed.

I mean I know we felt underseeded most years, but come on.

W/Ls don’t really affect KenPom, it’s how you play in them that matters. I’m curious how you would rank Marshall’s teams? This is mine:

2014
2013
2017
2012
2016
2018

2013, 2017, and 2012 are all really close, imo. I feel confident in the others.

At this point in the season. 2018 > 2013

Its funny how people forget that we went 12-6 in conference and got swept by Evansville. I know that injuries played a big part in that but it just goes to show you how much a tournament run changes perception.

The caveat there would be that back in 2013, the MVC’s RPI - as in the four or five digit decimal - was reasonably similar to where the AAC sits today. The AAC will improve, and is most certainly a buy stock right now, but there are a lot of quantitative similarities between the AAC today, and where the MVC sat through most of this century pre-2014.

Oh yes the MVC was a very strong league at the time. I guess it shows you just how much losing a strong program can hurt a conference. Losing Creighton cost the league 18 games against a top 50 opponent.
03-12-2018 09:51 AM
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nafstrops Offline
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Post: #46
RE: [Serious] WSU fans... thoughts on year one?
Thrilled to be in this league and excited to have 3 good teams to root for in the tournament. Year went exactly as I expected. Thought WSU would have a chance to win the league, but knew it wasn't a given.

Conference tournament can't get to Texas fast enough. Fans in the seats will help the perception of the league.

Stability of the league is my main concern. If the schools remain committed this will be a great basketball league. If they don't going to the Big East with UConn may be the best long term option for WSU.
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2018 10:24 AM by nafstrops.)
03-12-2018 10:09 AM
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rabidTU2 Offline
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Post: #47
RE: [Serious] WSU fans... thoughts on year one?
I just think its all going to be easier from here in the coming years for the shockers. In the back of everyones mind we thought the problem might be that WSU wouldn't be used to the grind of having to play so many tough games night after night. And that seems to have been the case. But the good news is Wichita St is now familiar with the league and knows whats coming as far as opponents and travel.

But a look back at the MVC and how they are now perceived is kinda comical. Again a one bidder. And the member winning it is the one that replaced WSU. So the shockers obviously did the right thing. So did the AAC.
03-12-2018 10:37 AM
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AndShock Offline
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Post: #48
RE: [Serious] WSU fans... thoughts on year one?
(03-12-2018 09:36 AM)Wheatshock Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 11:35 PM)AndShock Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 10:40 PM)shockerfan1313 Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 10:38 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 10:34 PM)shockerfan1313 Wrote:  Different conference. Can't compare directly.

Quit being dramatic

KenPom adjusts for competition levels. So actually, you can.

The problem with his numbers though is that I imagine those numbers are post-tournament, not pre-tournament, which will likely inflate.

I get that. But I imagine we have more losses this year than most of those years. Which definitely drops the Kenpom even more.

I just don't think the "worst" team of Marshall's to make the tourney would have a 4 seed.

I mean I know we felt underseeded most years, but come on.

W/Ls don’t really affect KenPom, it’s how you play in them that matters. I’m curious how you would rank Marshall’s teams? This is mine:

2014
2013
2017
2012
2016
2018

2013, 2017, and 2012 are all really close, imo. I feel confident in the others.

At this point in the season. 2018 > 2013

Its funny how people forget that we went 12-6 in conference and got swept by Evansville. I know that injuries played a big part in that but it just goes to show you how much a tournament run changes perception.

Ron Baker’s injury was literally the reason we went 12-6 in conference. If you think 2018 has a Final Four fun in them, you’re unfortunately gonna be pretty disappointed this month.
03-12-2018 10:40 AM
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Stickboy46 Offline
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Post: #49
RE: [Serious] WSU fans... thoughts on year one?
(03-12-2018 10:37 AM)rabidTU2 Wrote:  I just think its all going to be easier from here in the coming years for the shockers. In the back of everyones mind we thought the problem might be that WSU wouldn't be used to the grind of having to play so many tough games night after night. And that seems to have been the case. But the good news is Wichita St is now familiar with the league and knows whats coming as far as opponents and travel.

But a look back at the MVC and how they are now perceived is kinda comical. Again a one bidder. And the member winning it is the one that replaced WSU. So the shockers obviously did the right thing. So did the AAC.

The member that won is the one that replaced Creighton .. Valpo replaced WSU and finished 8th i think?
03-12-2018 10:40 AM
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Stickboy46 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: [Serious] WSU fans... thoughts on year one?
(03-12-2018 10:40 AM)AndShock Wrote:  
(03-12-2018 09:36 AM)Wheatshock Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 11:35 PM)AndShock Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 10:40 PM)shockerfan1313 Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 10:38 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  KenPom adjusts for competition levels. So actually, you can.

The problem with his numbers though is that I imagine those numbers are post-tournament, not pre-tournament, which will likely inflate.

I get that. But I imagine we have more losses this year than most of those years. Which definitely drops the Kenpom even more.

I just don't think the "worst" team of Marshall's to make the tourney would have a 4 seed.

I mean I know we felt underseeded most years, but come on.

W/Ls don’t really affect KenPom, it’s how you play in them that matters. I’m curious how you would rank Marshall’s teams? This is mine:

2014
2013
2017
2012
2016
2018

2013, 2017, and 2012 are all really close, imo. I feel confident in the others.

At this point in the season. 2018 > 2013

Its funny how people forget that we went 12-6 in conference and got swept by Evansville. I know that injuries played a big part in that but it just goes to show you how much a tournament run changes perception.

Ron Baker’s injury was literally the reason we went 12-6 in conference. If you think 2018 has a Final Four fun in them, you’re unfortunately gonna be pretty disappointed this month.

I'm hopeful for S16 ... Getting Nova in the S16 means we need a near perfect game and great shooting from Shamet, Frankamp and Reaves .. 2 of those have been missing the last few weeks.
03-12-2018 10:42 AM
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rabidTU2 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: [Serious] WSU fans... thoughts on year one?
(03-12-2018 10:40 AM)Stickboy46 Wrote:  
(03-12-2018 10:37 AM)rabidTU2 Wrote:  I just think its all going to be easier from here in the coming years for the shockers. In the back of everyones mind we thought the problem might be that WSU wouldn't be used to the grind of having to play so many tough games night after night. And that seems to have been the case. But the good news is Wichita St is now familiar with the league and knows whats coming as far as opponents and travel.

But a look back at the MVC and how they are now perceived is kinda comical. Again a one bidder. And the member winning it is the one that replaced WSU. So the shockers obviously did the right thing. So did the AAC.

The member that won is the one that replaced Creighton .. Valpo replaced WSU and finished 8th i think?

My bad. But who cares? 07-coffee3
03-12-2018 11:01 AM
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Stickboy46 Offline
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Post: #52
RE: [Serious] WSU fans... thoughts on year one?
(03-12-2018 11:01 AM)rabidTU2 Wrote:  
(03-12-2018 10:40 AM)Stickboy46 Wrote:  
(03-12-2018 10:37 AM)rabidTU2 Wrote:  I just think its all going to be easier from here in the coming years for the shockers. In the back of everyones mind we thought the problem might be that WSU wouldn't be used to the grind of having to play so many tough games night after night. And that seems to have been the case. But the good news is Wichita St is now familiar with the league and knows whats coming as far as opponents and travel.

But a look back at the MVC and how they are now perceived is kinda comical. Again a one bidder. And the member winning it is the one that replaced WSU. So the shockers obviously did the right thing. So did the AAC.

The member that won is the one that replaced Creighton .. Valpo replaced WSU and finished 8th i think?

My bad. But who cares? 07-coffee3

Good Point .. no one does .. 1 bid league.
03-12-2018 11:02 AM
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SHOCK_value Offline
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Post: #53
RE: [Serious] WSU fans... thoughts on year one?
Kinda funny to see a Tulsa fan trash the MVC, when the last time TU was a nationally relevant program for any extended period, they were in the... wait for it... MVC.
03-12-2018 11:07 AM
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Huskypride Offline
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Post: #54
RE: [Serious] WSU fans... thoughts on year one?
(03-12-2018 11:07 AM)SHOCK_value Wrote:  Kinda funny to see a Tulsa fan trash the MVC, when the last time TU was a nationally relevant program for any extended period, they were in the... wait for it... MVC.

damn coldblooded03-lmfao
03-12-2018 11:20 AM
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Wheatshock Offline
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Post: #55
RE: [Serious] WSU fans... thoughts on year one?
(03-12-2018 10:40 AM)AndShock Wrote:  
(03-12-2018 09:36 AM)Wheatshock Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 11:35 PM)AndShock Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 10:40 PM)shockerfan1313 Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 10:38 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  KenPom adjusts for competition levels. So actually, you can.

The problem with his numbers though is that I imagine those numbers are post-tournament, not pre-tournament, which will likely inflate.

I get that. But I imagine we have more losses this year than most of those years. Which definitely drops the Kenpom even more.

I just don't think the "worst" team of Marshall's to make the tourney would have a 4 seed.

I mean I know we felt underseeded most years, but come on.

W/Ls don’t really affect KenPom, it’s how you play in them that matters. I’m curious how you would rank Marshall’s teams? This is mine:

2014
2013
2017
2012
2016
2018

2013, 2017, and 2012 are all really close, imo. I feel confident in the others.

At this point in the season. 2018 > 2013

Its funny how people forget that we went 12-6 in conference and got swept by Evansville. I know that injuries played a big part in that but it just goes to show you how much a tournament run changes perception.

Ron Baker’s injury was literally the reason we went 12-6 in conference. If you think 2018 has a Final Four fun in them, you’re unfortunately gonna be pretty disappointed this month.

Nice Straw Man argument. 04-cheers
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2018 11:27 AM by Wheatshock.)
03-12-2018 11:27 AM
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C0|db|00ded Offline
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Post: #56
RE: [Serious] WSU fans... thoughts on year one?
Jealousy is a dangerous mistress. She destroys logic and reason faster than anything I've ever seen...

Wichita State can be having a down year AND the AAC can be better than the MVC at the same time. This isn't long division folks.

It was pointed out to me that Wichita State's defensive Kenpom ranking had passed 100. I doubt Gregg Marshall has ever had such a poor ranking the entire time he's been a head coach save for the first year taking over a new program. There is certainly something off with this team and our "same team" playing last year's games in the Valley would assuredly have yielded a poorer result than what's on record.

We are a good team and at times a great team this year, but our effort on the defensive end is spotty to put it mildly. We gained our national reputation not on flashy offensive play, but hardcore defense and selfless play on offense. It's that simple.

Had the Shockers played at the same defensive level as years past we win the AAC this year and we likely do it with a game to spare. If you don't agree with me, well that's your right. But using reason and logic and our Kenpom numbers, I'd challenge you to come up with some other conclusion.

We started the preseason top 8 in the nation and quickly moved to #3 with only a few wins. The national media and coaches have come to expect a certain potency with Wichita State basketball. They give us the benefit of the doubt at every turn. The reality is, this year we've been a bit of a paper tiger and that reputation has never been attached to Wichita State in a very long time.


T


...03-cool
03-12-2018 11:28 AM
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C0|db|00ded Offline
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Post: #57
RE: [Serious] WSU fans... thoughts on year one?
(03-12-2018 09:08 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 09:52 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 09:46 PM)TripleA Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 09:36 PM)Agent Wu Wrote:  I thought it was a fun year. Conference play was very entertaining and fun. WSU got their 2nd best seed under Marshall, and this is probably one of his worst teams to make the NCAA.

I can see how AAC could be 4-5 seed league if some teams don't have some bad luck.

That still puzzles me. You won a NCAAT game last year, almost upset #2 seed Kentucky, and returned practically everybody, 10 deep, I think. And you were ranked as high as Top 5 this season.

So how can this be one of Marshall's worst teams ever to make the Dance?

Either the league was just tougher, or your team and its coach fell apart for some unexplained reason. Just curious what you think really happened?

I think their fans just thought they were going to waltz in here and walk over everybody. So when that didn't happen they just decided it was because their team isn't very good rather than give credit to the league for being about 2-3 steps up in competition.

This league is known for destroying great basketball programs. Ask UConn and Memphis. Hitachi State you're next. 07-coffee3 #tehdecline

Correlation does not equal causation but this year's slide has the attention of quite a few astute followers of Shock; and while we have our theories, the best explanation might be... dark energies.

Anybody got the number to a good witch doctor?


T


...03-cool
03-12-2018 11:32 AM
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C0|db|00ded Offline
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Post: #58
RE: [Serious] WSU fans... thoughts on year one?
I am happy to be in the American Athletic Conference though. I wish our maiden year would have continued on the same trajectory as the first couple weeks of the season but... **** happens. We'll get it figured out. I suspect we'll have a spot or two opening up on the coaching staff after the season concludes.

I just pray that we can cobble together some semblance of a defensive mentality for at least 4 games in a row or there may be more egg on our face to come. Stay tuned haters!!!


T


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03-12-2018 11:39 AM
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AndShock Offline
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Post: #59
RE: [Serious] WSU fans... thoughts on year one?
(03-12-2018 11:27 AM)Wheatshock Wrote:  
(03-12-2018 10:40 AM)AndShock Wrote:  
(03-12-2018 09:36 AM)Wheatshock Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 11:35 PM)AndShock Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 10:40 PM)shockerfan1313 Wrote:  I get that. But I imagine we have more losses this year than most of those years. Which definitely drops the Kenpom even more.

I just don't think the "worst" team of Marshall's to make the tourney would have a 4 seed.

I mean I know we felt underseeded most years, but come on.

W/Ls don’t really affect KenPom, it’s how you play in them that matters. I’m curious how you would rank Marshall’s teams? This is mine:

2014
2013
2017
2012
2016
2018

2013, 2017, and 2012 are all really close, imo. I feel confident in the others.

At this point in the season. 2018 > 2013

Its funny how people forget that we went 12-6 in conference and got swept by Evansville. I know that injuries played a big part in that but it just goes to show you how much a tournament run changes perception.

Ron Baker’s injury was literally the reason we went 12-6 in conference. If you think 2018 has a Final Four fun in them, you’re unfortunately gonna be pretty disappointed this month.

Nice Straw Man argument. 04-cheers

Not a straw man at all. If you’re trying to argue 2018 is better than 2013 minus Ron Baker, then sure, I’ll agree with you. But Ron Baker isn’t walking through the door this week. The argument is which team is Marshall’s worst NCAA tournament team. Are you trying to say it’s 2013?
03-12-2018 11:39 AM
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invisiblehand Offline
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Post: #60
RE: [Serious] WSU fans... thoughts on year one?
(03-12-2018 11:07 AM)SHOCK_value Wrote:  Kinda funny to see a Tulsa fan trash the MVC, when the last time TU was a nationally relevant program for any extended period, they were in the... wait for it... MVC.

WAC.
03-12-2018 11:44 AM
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