(03-12-2018 11:39 AM)AndShock Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 11:27 AM)Wheatshock Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 10:40 AM)AndShock Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 09:36 AM)Wheatshock Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 11:35 PM)AndShock Wrote:  W/Ls don’t really affect KenPom, it’s how you play in them that matters. I’m curious how you would rank Marshall’s teams? This is mine:

2014
2013
2017
2012
2016
2018

2013, 2017, and 2012 are all really close, imo. I feel confident in the others.

At this point in the season. 2018 > 2013

Its funny how people forget that we went 12-6 in conference and got swept by Evansville. I know that injuries played a big part in that but it just goes to show you how much a tournament run changes perception.

Ron Baker’s injury was literally the reason we went 12-6 in conference. If you think 2018 has a Final Four fun in them, you’re unfortunately gonna be pretty disappointed this month.

Nice Straw Man argument.

Not a straw man at all. If you’re trying to argue 2018 is better than 2013 minus Ron Baker, then sure, I’ll agree with you. But Ron Baker isn’t walking through the door this week. The argument is which team is Marshall’s worst NCAA tournament team. Are you trying to say it’s 2013?

All I said was that to this point in the season 2018 has been better than 2013 to the same point. I made no prediction about how we will do in the tournament this year. We have the ability to get hot and go on a run or crap out in the 1st weekend. We'll have to see how it plays out.

(03-12-2018 11:44 AM)invisiblehand Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 11:07 AM)SHOCK_value Wrote:  Kinda funny to see a Tulsa fan trash the MVC, when the last time TU was a nationally relevant program for any extended period, they were in the... wait for it... MVC.

WAC.

True. You guys did have a nice go of it during the WAC years.

Man... talk about a conference that has since fully gone to hell, over various courses of realignment. Makes today’s MVC look like the ACC by comparison.

(03-12-2018 11:44 AM)invisiblehand Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 11:07 AM)SHOCK_value Wrote:  Kinda funny to see a Tulsa fan trash the MVC, when the last time TU was a nationally relevant program for any extended period, they were in the... wait for it... MVC.

WAC.

Lol.

5 of 10 years with an elite 8 (7 wins) and an NIT championship in the WAC vs 9 of 62 years with two sweet 16s (4 wins) and an NIT championship in the MVC.

Look another case of nothing happens in basketball unless Wichita is there to see it.

(03-12-2018 11:58 AM)SHOCK_value Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 11:44 AM)invisiblehand Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 11:07 AM)SHOCK_value Wrote:  Kinda funny to see a Tulsa fan trash the MVC, when the last time TU was a nationally relevant program for any extended period, they were in the... wait for it... MVC.

WAC.

True. You guys did have a nice go of it during the WAC years.

Man... talk about a conference that has since fully gone to hell, over various courses of realignment. Makes today’s MVC look like the ACC by comparison.

Which is why we should be careful at looking at the mwc teams and why you should be glad you dodged that bullet.

The MWC + BYU and Utah are sleazy to say the least.

Wichita State vs. Tulsa Kenpom and head-to-head results

2011
Wichita 27 - offense 31 - defense 48
Tulsa 91 - offense 98 - defense 106
Shockers win 82-79

2012
Wichita 11 - offense 11 - defense 26
Tulsa 94 - offense 110 - defense 88
Shockers win @ Tulsa 77-67

2013
Wichita 17 - offense 35 - defense 20
Tulsa 181 - offense 226 - defense 131
Shockers win 86-60

2014
Wichita 6 - offense 17 - defense 11
Tulsa 82 - offense 159 - defense 51
Shockers win @ Tulsa 77-54

2015
Wichita 13 - offense 19 - defense 15
Tulsa 85 - offense 211 - defense 28
Shockers win 75-55

2016
Wichita 13 - offense 67 - defense 1
Tulsa 65 - offense 69 - defense 79
Shockers lose @ Tulsa 67-77 (FVV hamstring injury - hobbling badly @ Tulsa)

2017
Wichita 8 - offense 13 - defense 13
Tulsa 144 - offense 172 - defense 135
Shockers win 80-53

2018
Wichita 20 - offense 5 - defense 107
Tulsa 107 - offense 112 - defense 113
Shockers win @ Tulsa 72-69
Shockers win 90-71

In the close game @ Wichita in 2011 our Kenpom was only 3.37x better.
In the loss @ Tulsa in 2016 our Kenpom was only 5x better.
In the close game this year @ Tulsa our Kempon was only 5.35x better.

In the last 8 years we've played Tulsa there have been 2 close games and one loss. While the loss probably shouldn't have happened, Fred VanVleet reinjured his hamstring in the middle of the game and was hobbling badly, AndShock's point is made pretty clear - this could be our weakest team since 2011. When we are weaker, we play Tulsa closer (or lose).

You have to go all the way back to 2009 to find a defensive ranking poorer than this year's. It was 120. This was early into Gregg Marshall's tenure at WSU when he was still rebuilding the program. In 2006 and 2007 (end of Turgeon Era) our defensive ranking was 49 and 43 respectively.


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(03-11-2018 07:06 PM)Stickboy46 Wrote:  We just got a 4 seed with 7 losses ... I'm good

It's Marshall's 2nd best seed ever at Wichita. With the 3rd best team in the league!

You have to be thrilled.

(03-12-2018 01:04 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 07:06 PM)Stickboy46 Wrote:  We just got a 4 seed with 7 losses ... I'm good

It's Marshall's 2nd best seed ever at Wichita. With the 3rd best team in the league!

You have to be thrilled.

I just hope yall can keep him until he retires way down the road (unless he wants to come to UConn)

(03-12-2018 01:04 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 07:06 PM)Stickboy46 Wrote:  We just got a 4 seed with 7 losses ... I'm good

It's Marshall's 2nd best seed ever at Wichita. With the 3rd best team in the league!

You have to be thrilled.

I see what you did there.

(03-12-2018 01:04 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 07:06 PM)Stickboy46 Wrote:  We just got a 4 seed with 7 losses ... I'm good

It's Marshall's 2nd best seed ever at Wichita. With the 3rd best team in the league!

You have to be thrilled.

3rd best team that is still ranked (other than Kenpom) above the 2nd best team. And got a better seed than the 2nd best team.

Weird......

But definitely thrilled!!!

(03-12-2018 01:04 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 07:06 PM)Stickboy46 Wrote:  We just got a 4 seed with 7 losses ... I'm good

It's Marshall's 2nd best seed ever at Wichita. With the 3rd best team in the league!

You have to be thrilled.

2nd Best Seed this League has ever received!!

(03-12-2018 01:07 PM)Huskypride Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 01:04 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 07:06 PM)Stickboy46 Wrote:  We just got a 4 seed with 7 losses ... I'm good

It's Marshall's 2nd best seed ever at Wichita. With the 3rd best team in the league!

You have to be thrilled.

I just hope yall can keep him until he retires way down the road

When you combine the substantial upgrade in conference, with the bit of a PR black eye he has amassed over the years (if we’re being totally honest), then I think the net points to Marshall more than likely retiring at WSU. He’s 55 years-old now, and has said numerous times that he plans on retiring earlier than most, so who knows he might only have 5 or 8 or whatever years left.

(03-12-2018 01:10 PM)shockerfan1313 Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 01:04 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 07:06 PM)Stickboy46 Wrote:  We just got a 4 seed with 7 losses ... I'm good

It's Marshall's 2nd best seed ever at Wichita. With the 3rd best team in the league!

You have to be thrilled.

3rd best team that is still ranked (other than Kenpom) above the 2nd best team. And got a better seed than the 2nd best team.

Weird......

But definitely thrilled!!!

It’s a good thing we beat Temple in the tournament otherwise we would’ve became the 7th best team in the conference. We probably would’ve been sent to the NIT.

(03-12-2018 01:13 PM)SHOCK_value Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 01:07 PM)Huskypride Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 01:04 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 07:06 PM)Stickboy46 Wrote:  We just got a 4 seed with 7 losses ... I'm good

It's Marshall's 2nd best seed ever at Wichita. With the 3rd best team in the league!

You have to be thrilled.

I just hope yall can keep him until he retires way down the road

When you combine the substantial upgrade in conference, with the bit of a PR black eye he has amassed over the years (if we’re being totally honest), then I think the net points to Marshall more than likely retiring at WSU. He’s 55 years-old now, and has said numerous times that he plans on retiring earlier than most, so who knows he might only have 5 or 8 or whatever years left.

His target is early 60's. He only has a few years left to win it all. He's always said he isn't interested in rebuilding another problem. He barely even has time to rebuild a program at this point. Wichita State is likely his final stop unless the absolute perfect situation opens up within a year or two with some mad money.


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(03-12-2018 01:11 PM)Stickboy46 Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 01:04 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 07:06 PM)Stickboy46 Wrote:  We just got a 4 seed with 7 losses ... I'm good

It's Marshall's 2nd best seed ever at Wichita. With the 3rd best team in the league!

You have to be thrilled.

2nd Best Seed this League has ever received!!

Good seeds are cool, but I'll keep our 2014 7 seed.

(03-12-2018 01:13 PM)SHOCK_value Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 01:07 PM)Huskypride Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 01:04 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 07:06 PM)Stickboy46 Wrote:  We just got a 4 seed with 7 losses ... I'm good

It's Marshall's 2nd best seed ever at Wichita. With the 3rd best team in the league!

You have to be thrilled.

I just hope yall can keep him until he retires way down the road

When you combine the substantial upgrade in conference, with the bit of a PR black eye he has amassed over the years (if we’re being totally honest), then I think the net points to Marshall more than likely retiring at WSU. He’s 55 years-old now, and has said numerous times that he plans on retiring earlier than most, so who knows he might only have 5 or 8 or whatever years left.

He's also not a fan of cold weather. Supposedly it took a considerable amount of convincing to get him to come even this far north.

Marshall will either retire at WSU or take the UCONN job. I'm good with either one.

(03-12-2018 01:16 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 01:13 PM)SHOCK_value Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 01:07 PM)Huskypride Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 01:04 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 07:06 PM)Stickboy46 Wrote:  We just got a 4 seed with 7 losses ... I'm good

It's Marshall's 2nd best seed ever at Wichita. With the 3rd best team in the league!

You have to be thrilled.

I just hope yall can keep him until he retires way down the road

When you combine the substantial upgrade in conference, with the bit of a PR black eye he has amassed over the years (if we’re being totally honest), then I think the net points to Marshall more than likely retiring at WSU. He’s 55 years-old now, and has said numerous times that he plans on retiring earlier than most, so who knows he might only have 5 or 8 or whatever years left.

His target is early 60's. He only has a few years left to win it all. He's always said he isn't interested in rebuilding another problem. He barely even has time to rebuild a program at this point. Wichita State is likely his final stop unless the absolute perfect situation opens up within a year or two with some mad money.


T


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I'd say a good year to duck out would be just prior to 2025 when the B12-2 breaks up. He'll be early 60's then and likely uninterested in wading through that **** storm. 2025 could be another upgrade for Wichita State or the end of a lovely era...


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(03-12-2018 01:19 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  Marshall will either retire at WSU or take the UCONN job. I'm good with either one.

I know you’re kidding, but are the boneheads at the yard actually mentioning Marshall as a thing?

(03-12-2018 01:21 PM)SHOCK_value Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 01:19 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  Marshall will either retire at WSU or take the UCONN job. I'm good with either one.

I know you’re kidding, but are the boneheads at the yard actually mentioning Marshall as a thing?

No. They are delusional, but not that delusional.

Billy Donovan is their "pipe-dream with a chance."

I suggested we look at Chris Jans, but no one really responded to it.

it crazy to me that Wichita fans still strongly use kenpom when comparing teams in different conference....
kenpom's biggest criteria is point differential....

even if this wichita was better than all of its previous teams they were never going to get those kinds of point differentials in the aac