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ExcitedOwl18 Online
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Post: #21
RE: Idea for conference tournament site
From the perspective of a Rice fan, I don’t really care where the tournament is held. Sure, our highest concentration of alumni is Texas but we likely have the most diffuse alumni base of any school in Conference USA. Unless it’s in Houston (and we’re good), Rice fans will never be able to provide the support necessary to make it a financial success. Even next year in Frisco (assuming we make it), where I’ll be working 8 minutes away and know of lots of other recent grads moving to Plano/Frisco area, I doubt Rice will bring more than 300 fans unless it’s the championship.

Where I don’t want it is some off the beaten path, tier two city. Give me somewhere I can visit friends, see some basketball, and have a choice of 10 flights a day to get back to DFW on.

Nashville, Charlotte, Atlanta, Miami, New Orleans > Hot Springs, Bristol, Chattanooga (though it is nice), Little Rock, etc
03-12-2018 11:18 AM
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Post: #22
RE: Idea for conference tournament site
(03-12-2018 11:03 AM)UABslant Wrote:  If it's going to be neutral site, it has to be somewhere that is a destination... somewhere the family and I want to visit regardless of the chances of the basketball team we support. When I told my wife we were playing in Frisco this season, her first response was "Where?" then "Will it be on TV?"
Nashville or New Orleans would be great. Being able to walk from the arena to restaurants and hotels is a major plus.

You wouldn't go if it was with a less than 5 hour drive? You wouldn't go if it was in Huntsville every other year? I don't think it needs to be a destination. Too many rabid fans are young and can't afford to fly around or have families and it is not a spending priority. $40 in gas and perhaps a night in a hotel for Friday/Saturday opens up a lot more demand than having it at a destination. That's why it should alternate between Huntsville or Nashville and Richmond or Roanoke. That gives everyone a chance to go every other year without a big sacrifice. The CAA had it Richmond for years and every game packed the lower bowl and the championship game sold out the 12,000 capacity almost every year and still got over 10,000 in other years. As long as the Texas schools are in the conference, we could put one in El Paso or San Antonio every so often as well, but not Frisco... that was a disaster.
03-12-2018 11:20 AM
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Post: #23
RE: Idea for conference tournament site
(03-12-2018 11:18 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  From the perspective of a Rice fan, I don’t really care where the tournament is held. Sure, our highest concentration of alumni is Texas but we likely have the most diffuse alumni base of any school in Conference USA. Unless it’s in Houston (and we’re good), Rice fans will never be able to provide the support necessary to make it a financial success. Even next year in Frisco (assuming we make it), where I’ll be working 8 minutes away and know of lots of other recent grads moving to Plano/Frisco area, I doubt Rice will bring more than 300 fans unless it’s the championship.

Where I don’t want it is some off the beaten path, tier two city. Give me somewhere I can visit friends, see some basketball, and have a choice of 10 flights a day to get back to DFW on.

Nashville, Charlotte, Atlanta, Miami, New Orleans > Hot Springs, Bristol, Chattanooga (though it is nice), Little Rock, etc

Most people don't have $2,000 to piss away buying plane tickets for their family with the risk of getting bounced on the first day. It works for the P5 because they have more fans with deep pockets that can do it without sacrifice, but Miami or New Orleans would be an unmitigated disaster with only 2 teams each within 5 hours, all 4 of which are a danger to not even make the field just about every year. The others might work due to their proximity to MTSU and WKU. Nashville is a bit of a haul for ODU, LT, and USM. Charlotte is a haul for everyone but ODU and Marshall. Atlanta is a haul for everyone but UAB, Charlotte, and MTSU. Nothing wrong with tier 2 cities if it gets you buzz and attendance. Richmond did a terrific job hosting the CAA.
03-12-2018 11:32 AM
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ExcitedOwl18 Online
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Post: #24
RE: Idea for conference tournament site
(03-12-2018 11:32 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(03-12-2018 11:18 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  From the perspective of a Rice fan, I don’t really care where the tournament is held. Sure, our highest concentration of alumni is Texas but we likely have the most diffuse alumni base of any school in Conference USA. Unless it’s in Houston (and we’re good), Rice fans will never be able to provide the support necessary to make it a financial success. Even next year in Frisco (assuming we make it), where I’ll be working 8 minutes away and know of lots of other recent grads moving to Plano/Frisco area, I doubt Rice will bring more than 300 fans unless it’s the championship.

Where I don’t want it is some off the beaten path, tier two city. Give me somewhere I can visit friends, see some basketball, and have a choice of 10 flights a day to get back to DFW on.

Nashville, Charlotte, Atlanta, Miami, New Orleans > Hot Springs, Bristol, Chattanooga (though it is nice), Little Rock, etc

Most people don't have $2,000 to piss away buying plane tickets for their family with the risk of getting bounced on the first day. It works for the P5 because they have more fans with deep pockets that can do it without sacrifice, but Miami or New Orleans would be an unmitigated disaster with only 2 teams each within 5 hours, all 4 of which are a danger to not even make the field just about every year. The others might work due to their proximity to MTSU and WKU. Nashville is a bit of a haul for ODU, LT, and USM. Charlotte is a haul for everyone but ODU and Marshall. Atlanta is a haul for everyone but UAB, Charlotte, and MTSU. Nothing wrong with tier 2 cities if it gets you buzz and attendance. Richmond did a terrific job hosting the CAA.

I understand your concern but to a fan from the West, having a tournament in Roanoke or Bristol or wherever would be like having the tournament in Abilene for fans from the east.

I think having it in a big city in the Central/East portion of the conference is the best compromise. No perfect solution!
03-12-2018 12:18 PM
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Post: #25
RE: Idea for conference tournament site
(03-12-2018 12:18 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(03-12-2018 11:32 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(03-12-2018 11:18 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  From the perspective of a Rice fan, I don’t really care where the tournament is held. Sure, our highest concentration of alumni is Texas but we likely have the most diffuse alumni base of any school in Conference USA. Unless it’s in Houston (and we’re good), Rice fans will never be able to provide the support necessary to make it a financial success. Even next year in Frisco (assuming we make it), where I’ll be working 8 minutes away and know of lots of other recent grads moving to Plano/Frisco area, I doubt Rice will bring more than 300 fans unless it’s the championship.

Where I don’t want it is some off the beaten path, tier two city. Give me somewhere I can visit friends, see some basketball, and have a choice of 10 flights a day to get back to DFW on.

Nashville, Charlotte, Atlanta, Miami, New Orleans > Hot Springs, Bristol, Chattanooga (though it is nice), Little Rock, etc

Most people don't have $2,000 to piss away buying plane tickets for their family with the risk of getting bounced on the first day. It works for the P5 because they have more fans with deep pockets that can do it without sacrifice, but Miami or New Orleans would be an unmitigated disaster with only 2 teams each within 5 hours, all 4 of which are a danger to not even make the field just about every year. The others might work due to their proximity to MTSU and WKU. Nashville is a bit of a haul for ODU, LT, and USM. Charlotte is a haul for everyone but ODU and Marshall. Atlanta is a haul for everyone but UAB, Charlotte, and MTSU. Nothing wrong with tier 2 cities if it gets you buzz and attendance. Richmond did a terrific job hosting the CAA.

I understand your concern but to a fan from the West, having a tournament in Roanoke or Bristol or wherever would be like having the tournament in Abilene for fans from the east.

I think having it in a big city in the Central/East portion of the conference is the best compromise. No perfect solution!

I understand that too. I think it should rotate so everyone can enjoy the experience, even if once every several years.
03-12-2018 12:29 PM
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Post: #26
RE: Idea for conference tournament site
(03-12-2018 12:18 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  I understand your concern but to a fan from the West, having a tournament in Roanoke or Bristol or wherever would be like having the tournament in Abilene for fans from the east.

I think having it in a big city in the Central/East portion of the conference is the best compromise. No perfect solution!

I think that’s why this league is ultimately heading for a divorce. The difference is the 5 schools in our northeast (Marshall, WKU, MTSU, ODU, Charlotte) along with UAB which would be a 90 minutes longer drive to the center - are the only fan bases in the league that can support a centralized location by sending a thousand instead of a hundred. When Marshall was in the SoCon, we took huge numbers to the conference tournament in Asheville as was an annual event on the calendar. A Marshall/WKU championship game in our region would have drawn an order of magnitude more than the Frisco event.

If we’re looking to maxiize crowds, we need to move toward this group. If we don’t care about fans and the appearance on TV, then we go be anywhere in the world. But it’s obvious no one cares about this league in the big cities, so let’s go to a region where CUSA has a chance to put on a real show and draw a real crowd. I think it can if all 5 of those schools can rally around it, which I think they have the cultures that would.
03-12-2018 12:30 PM
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Post: #27
RE: Idea for conference tournament site
(03-12-2018 12:30 PM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  
(03-12-2018 12:18 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  I understand your concern but to a fan from the West, having a tournament in Roanoke or Bristol or wherever would be like having the tournament in Abilene for fans from the east.

I think having it in a big city in the Central/East portion of the conference is the best compromise. No perfect solution!

I think that’s why this league is ultimately heading for a divorce. The difference is the 5 schools in our northeast (Marshall, WKU, MTSU, ODU, Charlotte) along with UAB which would be a 90 minutes longer drive to the center - are the only fan bases in the league that can support a centralized location by sending a thousand instead of a hundred. When Marshall was in the SoCon, we took huge numbers to the conference tournament in Asheville as was an annual event on the calendar. A Marshall/WKU championship game in our region would have drawn an order of magnitude more than the Frisco event.

If we’re looking to maxiize crowds, we need to move toward this group. If we don’t care about fans and the appearance on TV, then we go be anywhere in the world. But it’s obvious no one cares about this league in the big cities, so let’s go to a region where CUSA has a chance to put on a real show and draw a real crowd. I think it can if all 5 of those schools can rally around it, which I think they have the cultures that would.

5 hours is the magic number. Anything more than that and you have to commit to stay there. If I lose I want to go home.

Roanoke is 4 hours from ODU, 3.5 hours from Marshall, and 3 hours from Charlotte, but just our of reach of MTSU and WKU at 6.5 and 7 hours. Huntsville should cover the rest not in Texas or Florida. Bristol and Chattanooga are more central, but still put people out of reach of the day trip.

The problem is even with just the East and even omitting Florida, it is still pretty far flung. albiet not as bad. It still needs to rotate.
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2018 12:44 PM by EverRespect.)
03-12-2018 12:43 PM
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Post: #28
RE: Idea for conference tournament site
Only fans of about 4, maybe 5 programs would drive 5 hours to see their teams play.

There is no way in hell I would do that, unless we were truly on the cusp of receiving a NCAA bid. I imagine 90% of the fans from programs not named ODU, Middle, UAB, and WKU feel the same. And even their fans wouldn't go 5 hours on a down year.
03-12-2018 01:04 PM
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RE: Idea for conference tournament site
****Trigger the super fans****
03-12-2018 01:06 PM
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Idea for conference tournament site
Yeah, 5 hours is a bit much for a down year, but if we are in the semis, I'll leave in the morning and go. Charlotte is 5 hours from here. If the tournament was there, I would have taken a vacation day and made the trip Friday morning. If we won, I would have gotten a room in or near Charlotte. After the loss, I would have driven a couple of hours to get out of the metro and stayed at a $50 Red Roof Inn off the interstate and resumed in the morning.
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2018 01:19 PM by EverRespect.)
03-12-2018 01:18 PM
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shiftyeagle Offline
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RE: Idea for conference tournament site
yeah it's just different for us. I'd be much more likely to travel for baseball than basketball.
03-12-2018 01:22 PM
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va-eagle Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Idea for conference tournament site
(03-12-2018 12:43 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(03-12-2018 12:30 PM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  
(03-12-2018 12:18 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  I understand your concern but to a fan from the West, having a tournament in Roanoke or Bristol or wherever would be like having the tournament in Abilene for fans from the east.

I think having it in a big city in the Central/East portion of the conference is the best compromise. No perfect solution!

I think that’s why this league is ultimately heading for a divorce. The difference is the 5 schools in our northeast (Marshall, WKU, MTSU, ODU, Charlotte) along with UAB which would be a 90 minutes longer drive to the center - are the only fan bases in the league that can support a centralized location by sending a thousand instead of a hundred. When Marshall was in the SoCon, we took huge numbers to the conference tournament in Asheville as was an annual event on the calendar. A Marshall/WKU championship game in our region would have drawn an order of magnitude more than the Frisco event.

If we’re looking to maxiize crowds, we need to move toward this group. If we don’t care about fans and the appearance on TV, then we go be anywhere in the world. But it’s obvious no one cares about this league in the big cities, so let’s go to a region where CUSA has a chance to put on a real show and draw a real crowd. I think it can if all 5 of those schools can rally around it, which I think they have the cultures that would.

5 hours is the magic number. Anything more than that and you have to commit to stay there. If I lose I want to go home.

Roanoke is 4 hours from ODU, 3.5 hours from Marshall, and 3 hours from Charlotte, but just our of reach of MTSU and WKU at 6.5 and 7 hours. Huntsville should cover the rest not in Texas or Florida. Bristol and Chattanooga are more central, but still put people out of reach of the day trip.

The problem is even with just the East and even omitting Florida, it is still pretty far flung. albiet not as bad. It still needs to rotate.

Roanoke? In our general purpose arena, when the court is put down, the closest seats are 50 ft away? Not a good idea. Plus, our airport is small.

Reality is it doesn't matter because no one is going, no matter the location.
03-12-2018 01:30 PM
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Post: #33
RE: Idea for conference tournament site
I put in all of CUSA schools into the MidPoint Calculator. It comes up to the booming metropolis of Shuqualak, MS. Population 562. Clearly the logical location for every tournament here on out. It's home to a lumber company and Earls Bar and Grill. You're welcome.

Visit Shuqualak

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(This post was last modified: 03-12-2018 02:16 PM by CincyDave.)
03-12-2018 02:15 PM
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va-eagle Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Idea for conference tournament site
(03-12-2018 02:15 PM)CincyDave Wrote:  I put in all of CUSA schools into the MidPoint Calculator. It comes up to the booming metropolis of Shuqualak, MS. Population 562. Clearly the logical location for every tournament here on out. It's home to a lumber company and Earls Bar and Grill. You're welcome.

Visit Shuqualak

MidPoint Calculator

Biloxi then. Schedule a USM game on the coast same week and USM will have 3k at the basketball game.
03-12-2018 02:26 PM
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usm99 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Idea for conference tournament site
(03-11-2018 11:17 PM)banker Wrote:  Chatanooga. Just saying, pretty central, neutral site, decent arena, some stuff to do, no body else (other conferences) using it.

I agree and have said the same thing for moving the Bahamas Bowl here. Maybe not a permanent home for basketball but definitely one to consider for somewhat central location is Chattanooga. Here’s the timeframe it would take to get there from these places:

Middle Tennesse - 1:32
Nashville AIRPORT - 2:00
Atlanta AIRPORT - 2:00
Birmingham AIRPORT - 2:10
UAB - 2:11
WKU - 2:52
Charlotte - 5:26
USM - 5:32
Marshall - 5:50
La Tech - 7:40
ODU - 9:38
FAU - 10:27
FIU - 11:41
Rice - 12:00
UNT - 12:00
UTSA - 15:01
UTEP - 20:28

Flights: one way with 90 day out range price. I did one way in the event you wanted to explore other things while in the Chattanooga area. Some might want to book the last day and take chances while others might decide to do other things as a backup plan in the event of early exit from tourney
Miami to Atlanta - $75
Miami to Chattanooga - $111
Houston to Atlanta - $70
Houston to Chattanooga - $207
San Antonio to Atlanta - $142 ($64 Frontier)
San Antonio to Chattanooga - $184
Norfolk to Atlanta - $150 (Southwest Airlines)
Norfolk to Chattanooga - $162
El Paso to Atlanta - $158 (Southwest Airlines)
El Paso to Chattanooga - $243
Dallas to Atlanta - $63
Dallas to Chattanooga - $290

Flights to Nashville and Birmingham on average are about the midpoint of Atlanta and Chattanooga.
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2018 08:33 PM by usm99.)
03-12-2018 02:37 PM
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Side Show Joe Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Idea for conference tournament site
I'd be fine with moving the tournament to Nashville. It is central to most of C-USA, and flights are affordable. Truth is, as long as the tourny is in a major city with reasonable flights, it does not matter where it is. Although, I'd like for it to stay at the location for at least 5 years. I'd just really like it if we had a set location like some of the other conferences.
03-12-2018 07:34 PM
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Post: #37
RE: Idea for conference tournament site
(03-12-2018 10:22 AM)THUNDERGround Wrote:  Mileage-wise, Little Rock and Memphis are the two most central locations... but I also like Biloxi or Gulfport.

Geographically they are the center, but 9 teams would be east of them.
03-12-2018 07:57 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Idea for conference tournament site
The problem for most ODU fans is that few realistic locations are a drivable distance, and unless you are a hard core fan with money to spend, you aren't making the flight.

Smudge's idea of Florida is pretty good though... Less than 200 bucks for a round trip flight from Norfolk to Miami, which is extremely reasonable.

Nashville is too far to drive (11 hours), and flights are in the ~$325 range which would prevent many families from going.
03-12-2018 08:13 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Idea for conference tournament site
(03-12-2018 08:13 PM)Murray007 Wrote:  The problem for most ODU fans is that few realistic locations are a drivable distance, and unless you are a hard core fan with money to spend, you aren't making the flight.

Smudge's idea of Florida is pretty good though... Less than 200 bucks for a round trip flight from Norfolk to Miami, which is extremely reasonable.

Nashville is too far to drive (11 hours), and flights are in the ~$325 range which would prevent many families from going.

If you're looking to Florida as a potential location, just look at the AAC the few years it's been Orlando, it's been nothing short of a failure. Even with the cheap flights and everything to do in Orlando fans just aren't showing up.
03-12-2018 09:30 PM
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RE: Idea for conference tournament site
(03-12-2018 09:30 PM)PirateJP Wrote:  
(03-12-2018 08:13 PM)Murray007 Wrote:  The problem for most ODU fans is that few realistic locations are a drivable distance, and unless you are a hard core fan with money to spend, you aren't making the flight.

Smudge's idea of Florida is pretty good though... Less than 200 bucks for a round trip flight from Norfolk to Miami, which is extremely reasonable.

Nashville is too far to drive (11 hours), and flights are in the ~$325 range which would prevent many families from going.

If you're looking to Florida as a potential location, just look at the AAC the few years it's been Orlando, it's been nothing short of a failure. Even with the cheap flights and everything to do in Orlando fans just aren't showing up.
Because just like nobody is paying $325 per person to fly their family to Nashville, they aren't paying $200 to go to Orlando.

Honey, we aren't going to Hilton Head this year. Instead, we are taking that $2,000 and taking the kids to Orlando to watch Marshall play Western Kentucky. If you don't want to watch basketball, I'll go alone and you can take the kids to Disney at $120 per ticket, stand in line all day, and listen to them scream.

No.

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03-12-2018 09:44 PM
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