It's not about how many free throws shot, that in and of itself doesn't denote bad officiating. Those two free throws you mentioned were off a terrible call, as was that out-of-bounds call that was somehow overturned in the final minute.

Kansas could have shot 12 free throws before garbage time and I wouldn't have said anything if they were mostly good calls.

This coming from someone who never mentions officiating, ever. And it didn't cost Duke but was certainly a factor.

That terrible call I mentioned when Newman drove into Carter also fouled Carter out, so it had a major impact on Duke going forward. If you're gonna foul someone out, make sure it's on a legit call. They could have even chosen to swallow their whistle, though then again that goes back to what I sometimes complain about when officials change how they call the game to prevent a player from fouling out.

Such an odd tournament. We had one side of the bracket that was just complete chaos. Both the top two seeds out early, couple low seeds advancing far. Then we had another side of the bracket that went completely to chalk outside of a couple minor upsets early.

(03-25-2018 07:16 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  It's not about how many free throws shot, that in and of itself doesn't denote bad officiating. Those two free throws you mentioned were off a terrible call, as was that out-of-bounds call that was somehow overturned in the final minute.

Kansas could have shot 12 free throws before garbage time and I wouldn't have said anything if they were mostly good calls.

This coming from someone who never mentions officiating, ever. And it didn't cost Duke but was certainly a factor.

That foul call early in OT wasn't a factor. Game was still tied after the free throws.

If there was one key play, it was at about 2 minutes left when Newman stole the ball and hit a 3 to put KU up by 3. In baseball that would be the "game winning RBI", the RBI that scores the run that gives a team a lead that they never relinquish.

(03-25-2018 07:16 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  It's not about how many free throws shot, that in and of itself doesn't denote bad officiating. Those two free throws you mentioned were off a terrible call, as was that out-of-bounds call that was somehow overturned in the final minute.

Kansas could have shot 12 free throws before garbage time and I wouldn't have said anything if they were mostly good calls.

This coming from someone who never mentions officiating, ever. And it didn't cost Duke but was certainly a factor.

You obviously didn't watch the rest of the game. Duke got every questionable call, the refs straight up missed deflections out of bounds on Duke. It was karma that KU got the charge called, even if it was a bad call.

(03-25-2018 08:14 PM)kurtrundell Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 07:16 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  It's not about how many free throws shot, that in and of itself doesn't denote bad officiating. Those two free throws you mentioned were off a terrible call, as was that out-of-bounds call that was somehow overturned in the final minute.

Kansas could have shot 12 free throws before garbage time and I wouldn't have said anything if they were mostly good calls.

This coming from someone who never mentions officiating, ever. And it didn't cost Duke but was certainly a factor.

You obviously didn't watch the rest of the game. Duke got every questionable call, the refs straight up missed deflections out of bounds on Duke. It was karma that KU got the charge called, even if it was a bad call.

That was my impression: yes, Duke got reamed on the blocking call, but otherwise the reffing favored them.

(03-25-2018 07:58 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 07:16 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  It's not about how many free throws shot, that in and of itself doesn't denote bad officiating. Those two free throws you mentioned were off a terrible call, as was that out-of-bounds call that was somehow overturned in the final minute.

Kansas could have shot 12 free throws before garbage time and I wouldn't have said anything if they were mostly good calls.

This coming from someone who never mentions officiating, ever. And it didn't cost Duke but was certainly a factor.

That foul call early in OT wasn't a factor. Game was still tied after the free throws.

If there was one key play, it was at about 2 minutes left when Newman stole the ball and hit a 3 to put KU up by 3. In baseball that would be the "game winning RBI", the RBI that scores the run that gives a team a lead that they never relinquish.

I didn't say it was why they lost but it was 100% a factor. It was a bad call that fouled out a contributing player. Duke still could have won and honestly should have won in regulation but it was still a terrible call that made an impact on the game. Newman was set when he was ran over outside the restricted area.

(03-25-2018 06:35 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 06:33 PM)Norm DaNiner Wrote:  Bye, bye Duke and ACC.

Congratulations Kansas!

ACC had 9 bids and end up with zero in the F4.

Wonder how many times that's happened?

SEC had 8 bids and got none in.

Collectively, the ACC, SEC, and Big 12 had 24 teams in the draw and occupy one of the Final 4 slots.

So P5 means nothing in basketball.

(03-25-2018 08:14 PM)kurtrundell Wrote:  

(03-25-2018 07:16 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  It's not about how many free throws shot, that in and of itself doesn't denote bad officiating. Those two free throws you mentioned were off a terrible call, as was that out-of-bounds call that was somehow overturned in the final minute.

Kansas could have shot 12 free throws before garbage time and I wouldn't have said anything if they were mostly good calls.

This coming from someone who never mentions officiating, ever. And it didn't cost Duke but was certainly a factor.

You obviously didn't watch the rest of the game. Duke got every questionable call, the refs straight up missed deflections out of bounds on Duke. It was karma that KU got the charge called, even if it was a bad call.

Whatever the case may be, as I noted, Duke didn't lose the game because of those calls.

And how did the officials miss calls on Duke? They overturned an out-of-bounds on KU in the final minute that appeared very likely to have been knocked out the Duke player's hands by KU. That play ultimately meant nothing, as KU missed a shot on a short shot clock but that seems to contradict your narrative.

Duke lost fair and square but they did have to deal with some shoddy officiating, at least in OT.

A surprising stat I came across is that the ACC has only won 14 national titles. You'd figure it'd have been way more, at least 3-5 more. And yes, that includes Maryland, not to mention that fluke title in 1983 as well as one in 1957. All those downright dominant teams but only 14 titles?

The Big East only won 6 before its current configuration.

*Not including Louisville's vacated title.

The Big 12 has won 1 and was lucky to win that...the Big 8 had 2 (1 in 1952) and the SWC had 0. .

The Big 10 has won 1 in 29 years. All but 2 of the Pac's titles occured before 1980.

Whose winning all of these national titles?

(03-30-2018 02:41 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  The Big 12 has won 1 and was lucky to win that...the Big 8 had 2 (1 in 1952) and the SWC had 0. .

The Big 10 has won 1 in 29 years. All but 2 of the Pac's titles occured before 1980.

Whose winning all of these national titles?

B1G hasn't won a title in 18 years ... PAC hasn't won a title in 23 years (and won't this year) .... even the Big 12 last won a title 10 years ago.

That's 3 of the P5 that haven't won a title in a decade or more. B1G and Big 12 have a chance to break those streaks at this Final 4, but there's a decent chance the streaks will continue as well.

Who has been winning them since 2009? Duke, North Carolina, and UConn, basically.

Just imagine if the Horizon (Butler), Missouri Valley (Wichita State), WAC (Utah), C-USA (Marquette, Louisville and Memphis), Great Midwest (Cincinnati) and the CAA (George Mason, VCU) had won titles...the list would be even shorter. Had Memphis held on, the Big 12 would have 0 and Big 8 just 1 in the modern era. If UNLV and Butler held on, Duke would have 3 and UConn just 3.

(03-30-2018 02:41 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  The Big 12 has won 1 and was lucky to win that...the Big 8 had 2 (1 in 1952) and the SWC had 0. .

The Big 10 has won 1 in 29 years. All but 2 of the Pac's titles occured before 1980.

Whose winning all of these national titles?

In the last 20 years, Big East (7), ACC (7) SEC (4) B12 (1), B1G (1).

UConn (4)
Duke (3)
UNC (3)
Kentucky (2)
Florida (2)

That's 14 out of 20. Parity? Not so much.

(03-25-2018 07:16 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  It's not about how many free throws shot, that in and of itself doesn't denote bad officiating. Those two free throws you mentioned were off a terrible call, as was that out-of-bounds call that was somehow overturned in the final minute.

Kansas could have shot 12 free throws before garbage time and I wouldn't have said anything if they were mostly good calls.

This coming from someone who never mentions officiating, ever. And it didn't cost Duke but was certainly a factor.

If it was called evenly, it wouldn't have gone to OT, as Kansas would have won in regulation.

(03-30-2018 02:41 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  The Big 12 has won 1 and was lucky to win that...the Big 8 had 2 (1 in 1952) and the SWC had 0. .

The Big 10 has won 1 in 29 years. All but 2 of the Pac's titles occured before 1980.

Whose winning all of these national titles?

In the past 65 years, the only Big 12 team to win a NC is Kansas (2X), and the only PAC 12 team to win besides UCLA was Arizona in 1997.