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Bama home/home with ND and Texas?
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XLance Online
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Post: #21
RE: Bama home/home with ND and Texas?
(03-26-2018 05:13 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(03-26-2018 12:00 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(03-26-2018 09:46 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(03-26-2018 07:22 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(03-26-2018 06:56 AM)TerryD Wrote:  This is part of ND's scheduling philosophy as an independent to have game "markers" (for playoff consideration) against teams from all P5 conferences.

Regarding SEC "markers", ND scheduled home/home series recently with Georgia, Arkansas and Texas A&M.

Setting up a home/home with Alabama fits with that philosophy, as were home/home series against Texas and Oklahoma (Big 12) and Michigan (Big Ten).

ND has the ACC "markers" covered with the five games per year and the Pac 12 with annual games with Southern Cal and Stanford.

And that 5 game contracted schedule kinda makes that tag of "independent" passe'.

Hell no, it does not.

What division of the ACC is ND in?

How much does ESPN pay ND football for being in the ACC?

I guess that NBC is in for a big surprise, knowing that its ND contract is null and void.

In the past, ND schedules included three games a year against Big Ten schools and two games a year (usually Pitt and BC) against Big East schools.

From ND's perspective, replacing those scheduled games with five against the ACC is merely shuffling game opponents, not something that is "passe'". Same arrangement, different opponents.

ND sees these as scheduling arrangements as an independent, nothing more.

If you have shuffled the B1G and Big East out for the 5 ACC games how would you explain Michigan Sept 1 and Northwestern Nov. 03 in 2018, Michigan Oct 26 in 2019 and Wisconsin on Oct 3 in 2020?

Look up past ND schedules from 1977 to 2017.

Traditionally, ND played Michigan, Michigan State and Purdue to start the year, every year.

ND played Pitt every year, BC some years.



The rotation of some Big Ten teams in home/home series is not the same as playing Michigan, Michigan State and Purdue EVERY YEAR.

Those three ANNUAL games are no more, replaced by the ACC games.

Pitt was an annual game and is now a sometime ACC opponent.

Its a scheduling agreement in football with the ACC, nothing more.

Hold on to your shillelagh Terry...just messing with you.
Notre Dame's relationship with the ACC is a little too close already, and there are many that don't want it to grow any closer.
03-27-2018 04:43 AM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Bama home/home with ND and Texas?
(03-27-2018 01:35 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(03-26-2018 09:58 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  ...I read what you both said and the notion that a road game is more difficult than any neutral site game is an opinion. The level of competition is what determines the difficulty. Playing Florida State in Atlanta was much more difficult last season than Vanderbilt on the road. For that matter, playing a neutral site game is more difficult than playing a home game so is it really an empirical demonstration of quality to schedule a home and home? Only one of the two games is "on the road."

Comparing FSU to Vanderbilt is a straw-man argument. Let's look at the last 10 years (wherein the road opponents are nearly all SEC, so therefore balanced home/away):

Year Loss(es)
2017 at Auburn (road)
2016 Clemson (at Tampa)
2015 Ole Miss (home)
2014 at Ole Miss (road)
---- Ohio State (at New Orleans)
2013 at Auburn (road)
---- Oklahoma (at New Orleans)
2012 Texas A&M (home)
2011 LSU (home)
2010 at S Carolina (road)
---- at LSU (road)
---- Auburn (home)
2009 (none)
2008 Florida (at Atlanta)
---- Utah (at New Orleans)

Last 10 years, Alabama has
4 losses at home (in 70 home games, or 5.7%)
5 losses on the road (in 41 away games, or 12.2%)
5 losses at neutral sites (in 27 games, or 18.5%)
8-0 in the regular season, under conditions that Alabama controls (i.e. 1st game of the season, choose the opponent, etc.)
14-5 in the post-season, out of Alabama's control, vs. good competition. This is a different animal, so let's put these aside. Obviously Bama is good or they wouldn't put up such gaudy numbers... but don't discount the advantage of having the opposition come to you!

Based on regular season games, the Tide are more than TWICE as likely to lose on the road versus at home. That's not an opinion, it's a fact - and it holds for nearly every P5 team, not just Bama. Road games ARE tougher, given the same level of competition both home and away (which is what we are talking about - home and home SERIES).

We weren't comparing home games versus road games. We're comparing neutral site games versus road games. With that said, the strawman seems to be coming from you.

You also missed the point that a home/home series only produces 1 road game. Whatever disadvantage playing on the road causes is flipped for the other game...so...is it really more difficult to play every other game on the road or play every game at a neutral site?

You're entitled to your opinion, but it is an opinion.
03-27-2018 01:28 PM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Bama home/home with ND and Texas?
(03-27-2018 04:43 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(03-26-2018 05:13 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(03-26-2018 12:00 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(03-26-2018 09:46 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(03-26-2018 07:22 AM)XLance Wrote:  And that 5 game contracted schedule kinda makes that tag of "independent" passe'.

Hell no, it does not.

What division of the ACC is ND in?

How much does ESPN pay ND football for being in the ACC?

I guess that NBC is in for a big surprise, knowing that its ND contract is null and void.

In the past, ND schedules included three games a year against Big Ten schools and two games a year (usually Pitt and BC) against Big East schools.

From ND's perspective, replacing those scheduled games with five against the ACC is merely shuffling game opponents, not something that is "passe'". Same arrangement, different opponents.

ND sees these as scheduling arrangements as an independent, nothing more.

If you have shuffled the B1G and Big East out for the 5 ACC games how would you explain Michigan Sept 1 and Northwestern Nov. 03 in 2018, Michigan Oct 26 in 2019 and Wisconsin on Oct 3 in 2020?

Look up past ND schedules from 1977 to 2017.

Traditionally, ND played Michigan, Michigan State and Purdue to start the year, every year.

ND played Pitt every year, BC some years.



The rotation of some Big Ten teams in home/home series is not the same as playing Michigan, Michigan State and Purdue EVERY YEAR.

Those three ANNUAL games are no more, replaced by the ACC games.

Pitt was an annual game and is now a sometime ACC opponent.

Its a scheduling agreement in football with the ACC, nothing more.

Hold on to your shillelagh Terry...just messing with you.
Notre Dame's relationship with the ACC is a little too close already, and there are many that don't want it to grow any closer.

On both sides of that equation.
(This post was last modified: 03-27-2018 02:08 PM by TerryD.)
03-27-2018 02:08 PM
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OrangeDude Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Bama home/home with ND and Texas?
(03-27-2018 02:08 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(03-27-2018 04:43 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(03-26-2018 05:13 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(03-26-2018 12:00 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(03-26-2018 09:46 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Hell no, it does not.

What division of the ACC is ND in?

How much does ESPN pay ND football for being in the ACC?

I guess that NBC is in for a big surprise, knowing that its ND contract is null and void.

In the past, ND schedules included three games a year against Big Ten schools and two games a year (usually Pitt and BC) against Big East schools.

From ND's perspective, replacing those scheduled games with five against the ACC is merely shuffling game opponents, not something that is "passe'". Same arrangement, different opponents.

ND sees these as scheduling arrangements as an independent, nothing more.

If you have shuffled the B1G and Big East out for the 5 ACC games how would you explain Michigan Sept 1 and Northwestern Nov. 03 in 2018, Michigan Oct 26 in 2019 and Wisconsin on Oct 3 in 2020?

Look up past ND schedules from 1977 to 2017.

Traditionally, ND played Michigan, Michigan State and Purdue to start the year, every year.

ND played Pitt every year, BC some years.



The rotation of some Big Ten teams in home/home series is not the same as playing Michigan, Michigan State and Purdue EVERY YEAR.

Those three ANNUAL games are no more, replaced by the ACC games.

Pitt was an annual game and is now a sometime ACC opponent.

Its a scheduling agreement in football with the ACC, nothing more.

Hold on to your shillelagh Terry...just messing with you.
Notre Dame's relationship with the ACC is a little too close already, and there are many that don't want it to grow any closer.

On both sides of that equation.

Hail Terry and XLance,

True. But how many of those (from both inside ND and inside the ACC) feel the same?

Terry, love the scheduling philosophy of ND, but it only ensures that the likelihood of ND getting into the CFP keeps diminishing. 03-wink

XLance, well at least ND still has those ACC games to rack up some wins (13-7) so far against ACC teams. 03-wink

Just messing with you both.

Cheers,
Neil
03-27-2018 03:12 PM
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Hokie Mark Online
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Post: #25
RE: Bama home/home with ND and Texas?
(03-27-2018 01:28 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(03-27-2018 01:35 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(03-26-2018 09:58 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  ...I read what you both said and the notion that a road game is more difficult than any neutral site game is an opinion. The level of competition is what determines the difficulty. Playing Florida State in Atlanta was much more difficult last season than Vanderbilt on the road. For that matter, playing a neutral site game is more difficult than playing a home game so is it really an empirical demonstration of quality to schedule a home and home? Only one of the two games is "on the road."

Comparing FSU to Vanderbilt is a straw-man argument. Let's look at the last 10 years (wherein the road opponents are nearly all SEC, so therefore balanced home/away):

Year Loss(es)
2017 at Auburn (road)
2016 Clemson (at Tampa)
2015 Ole Miss (home)
2014 at Ole Miss (road)
---- Ohio State (at New Orleans)
2013 at Auburn (road)
---- Oklahoma (at New Orleans)
2012 Texas A&M (home)
2011 LSU (home)
2010 at S Carolina (road)
---- at LSU (road)
---- Auburn (home)
2009 (none)
2008 Florida (at Atlanta)
---- Utah (at New Orleans)

Last 10 years, Alabama has
4 losses at home (in 70 home games, or 5.7%)
5 losses on the road (in 41 away games, or 12.2%)
5 losses at neutral sites (in 27 games, or 18.5%)
8-0 in the regular season, under conditions that Alabama controls (i.e. 1st game of the season, choose the opponent, etc.)
14-5 in the post-season, out of Alabama's control, vs. good competition. This is a different animal, so let's put these aside. Obviously Bama is good or they wouldn't put up such gaudy numbers... but don't discount the advantage of having the opposition come to you!

Based on regular season games, the Tide are more than TWICE as likely to lose on the road versus at home. That's not an opinion, it's a fact - and it holds for nearly every P5 team, not just Bama. Road games ARE tougher, given the same level of competition both home and away (which is what we are talking about - home and home SERIES).

We weren't comparing home games versus road games. We're comparing neutral site games versus road games. With that said, the strawman seems to be coming from you.

You also missed the point that a home/home series only produces 1 road game. Whatever disadvantage playing on the road causes is flipped for the other game...so...is it really more difficult to play every other game on the road or play every game at a neutral site?

You're entitled to your opinion, but it is an opinion.

Well, Alabama is UNDEFEATED in regular season neutral site games over the past 10 years, but is 36-5 in true P5 road games, so what does that tell you? (Besides the fact that the Tide has been pretty good no matter where they play, but anyone can see they are more vulnerable on the road than at a neutral site).
(This post was last modified: 03-27-2018 04:24 PM by Hokie Mark.)
03-27-2018 04:22 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Bama home/home with ND and Texas?
(03-27-2018 04:22 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(03-27-2018 01:28 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(03-27-2018 01:35 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(03-26-2018 09:58 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  ...I read what you both said and the notion that a road game is more difficult than any neutral site game is an opinion. The level of competition is what determines the difficulty. Playing Florida State in Atlanta was much more difficult last season than Vanderbilt on the road. For that matter, playing a neutral site game is more difficult than playing a home game so is it really an empirical demonstration of quality to schedule a home and home? Only one of the two games is "on the road."

Comparing FSU to Vanderbilt is a straw-man argument. Let's look at the last 10 years (wherein the road opponents are nearly all SEC, so therefore balanced home/away):

Year Loss(es)
2017 at Auburn (road)
2016 Clemson (at Tampa)
2015 Ole Miss (home)
2014 at Ole Miss (road)
---- Ohio State (at New Orleans)
2013 at Auburn (road)
---- Oklahoma (at New Orleans)
2012 Texas A&M (home)
2011 LSU (home)
2010 at S Carolina (road)
---- at LSU (road)
---- Auburn (home)
2009 (none)
2008 Florida (at Atlanta)
---- Utah (at New Orleans)

Last 10 years, Alabama has
4 losses at home (in 70 home games, or 5.7%)
5 losses on the road (in 41 away games, or 12.2%)
5 losses at neutral sites (in 27 games, or 18.5%)
8-0 in the regular season, under conditions that Alabama controls (i.e. 1st game of the season, choose the opponent, etc.)
14-5 in the post-season, out of Alabama's control, vs. good competition. This is a different animal, so let's put these aside. Obviously Bama is good or they wouldn't put up such gaudy numbers... but don't discount the advantage of having the opposition come to you!

Based on regular season games, the Tide are more than TWICE as likely to lose on the road versus at home. That's not an opinion, it's a fact - and it holds for nearly every P5 team, not just Bama. Road games ARE tougher, given the same level of competition both home and away (which is what we are talking about - home and home SERIES).

We weren't comparing home games versus road games. We're comparing neutral site games versus road games. With that said, the strawman seems to be coming from you.

You also missed the point that a home/home series only produces 1 road game. Whatever disadvantage playing on the road causes is flipped for the other game...so...is it really more difficult to play every other game on the road or play every game at a neutral site?

You're entitled to your opinion, but it is an opinion.

Well, Alabama is UNDEFEATED in regular season neutral site games over the past 10 years, but is 36-5 in true P5 road games, so what does that tell you? (Besides the fact that the Tide has been pretty good no matter where they play, but anyone can see they are more vulnerable on the road than at a neutral site).

Hey guys. Do you know the real difference between neutral site and home & home games? In home and home games the officials are from one conference or the other. In neutral site games they are from another conference.

So outside of the home venues getting hosed that is the only other difference.
03-27-2018 05:52 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Bama home/home with ND and Texas?
(03-27-2018 04:22 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(03-27-2018 01:28 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(03-27-2018 01:35 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(03-26-2018 09:58 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  ...I read what you both said and the notion that a road game is more difficult than any neutral site game is an opinion. The level of competition is what determines the difficulty. Playing Florida State in Atlanta was much more difficult last season than Vanderbilt on the road. For that matter, playing a neutral site game is more difficult than playing a home game so is it really an empirical demonstration of quality to schedule a home and home? Only one of the two games is "on the road."

Comparing FSU to Vanderbilt is a straw-man argument. Let's look at the last 10 years (wherein the road opponents are nearly all SEC, so therefore balanced home/away):

Year Loss(es)
2017 at Auburn (road)
2016 Clemson (at Tampa)
2015 Ole Miss (home)
2014 at Ole Miss (road)
---- Ohio State (at New Orleans)
2013 at Auburn (road)
---- Oklahoma (at New Orleans)
2012 Texas A&M (home)
2011 LSU (home)
2010 at S Carolina (road)
---- at LSU (road)
---- Auburn (home)
2009 (none)
2008 Florida (at Atlanta)
---- Utah (at New Orleans)

Last 10 years, Alabama has
4 losses at home (in 70 home games, or 5.7%)
5 losses on the road (in 41 away games, or 12.2%)
5 losses at neutral sites (in 27 games, or 18.5%)
8-0 in the regular season, under conditions that Alabama controls (i.e. 1st game of the season, choose the opponent, etc.)
14-5 in the post-season, out of Alabama's control, vs. good competition. This is a different animal, so let's put these aside. Obviously Bama is good or they wouldn't put up such gaudy numbers... but don't discount the advantage of having the opposition come to you!

Based on regular season games, the Tide are more than TWICE as likely to lose on the road versus at home. That's not an opinion, it's a fact - and it holds for nearly every P5 team, not just Bama. Road games ARE tougher, given the same level of competition both home and away (which is what we are talking about - home and home SERIES).

We weren't comparing home games versus road games. We're comparing neutral site games versus road games. With that said, the strawman seems to be coming from you.

You also missed the point that a home/home series only produces 1 road game. Whatever disadvantage playing on the road causes is flipped for the other game...so...is it really more difficult to play every other game on the road or play every game at a neutral site?

You're entitled to your opinion, but it is an opinion.

Well, Alabama is UNDEFEATED in regular season neutral site games over the past 10 years, but is 36-5 in true P5 road games, so what does that tell you? (Besides the fact that the Tide has been pretty good no matter where they play, but anyone can see they are more vulnerable on the road than at a neutral site).

Undefeated in the regular season, not in the postseason.

Anyway, what we're really talking about is scheduling philosophy. You can make the argument that a road game is more difficult than a neutral site game if we're talking about precisely the same team in precisely the same year. Sure, I don't disagree with that at all.

But you can't say that a home/home is inherently more difficult than playing 2 neutral site games over the same period of time. Yes, you may have a difficult road game, but you also get an easier home game. No one is going to play exclusively road games against other P5 teams.

So my broader point was...why would fans of schools not named Alabama be worried about where Alabama is playing their games? I have no idea because I've never looked at another school's schedule and said "wow, it's just not fair that they're playing that game in that location."

For example, G5s don't get very many home games against P5s. You're not going to hear P5 fans say it's just not right that we don't return many trips. The games get played, cash gets exchanged, and no one looks at the record and says it doesn't mean that much.

It's all pretty much about economics. That's why we're looking at home/home series versus schools like Texas and Notre Dame. Those games will be huge draws even if the teams happen to be mediocre in their respective seasons.
03-28-2018 05:42 AM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Bama home/home with ND and Texas?
(03-27-2018 05:52 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(03-27-2018 04:22 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(03-27-2018 01:28 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(03-27-2018 01:35 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(03-26-2018 09:58 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  ...I read what you both said and the notion that a road game is more difficult than any neutral site game is an opinion. The level of competition is what determines the difficulty. Playing Florida State in Atlanta was much more difficult last season than Vanderbilt on the road. For that matter, playing a neutral site game is more difficult than playing a home game so is it really an empirical demonstration of quality to schedule a home and home? Only one of the two games is "on the road."

Comparing FSU to Vanderbilt is a straw-man argument. Let's look at the last 10 years (wherein the road opponents are nearly all SEC, so therefore balanced home/away):

Year Loss(es)
2017 at Auburn (road)
2016 Clemson (at Tampa)
2015 Ole Miss (home)
2014 at Ole Miss (road)
---- Ohio State (at New Orleans)
2013 at Auburn (road)
---- Oklahoma (at New Orleans)
2012 Texas A&M (home)
2011 LSU (home)
2010 at S Carolina (road)
---- at LSU (road)
---- Auburn (home)
2009 (none)
2008 Florida (at Atlanta)
---- Utah (at New Orleans)

Last 10 years, Alabama has
4 losses at home (in 70 home games, or 5.7%)
5 losses on the road (in 41 away games, or 12.2%)
5 losses at neutral sites (in 27 games, or 18.5%)
8-0 in the regular season, under conditions that Alabama controls (i.e. 1st game of the season, choose the opponent, etc.)
14-5 in the post-season, out of Alabama's control, vs. good competition. This is a different animal, so let's put these aside. Obviously Bama is good or they wouldn't put up such gaudy numbers... but don't discount the advantage of having the opposition come to you!

Based on regular season games, the Tide are more than TWICE as likely to lose on the road versus at home. That's not an opinion, it's a fact - and it holds for nearly every P5 team, not just Bama. Road games ARE tougher, given the same level of competition both home and away (which is what we are talking about - home and home SERIES).

We weren't comparing home games versus road games. We're comparing neutral site games versus road games. With that said, the strawman seems to be coming from you.

You also missed the point that a home/home series only produces 1 road game. Whatever disadvantage playing on the road causes is flipped for the other game...so...is it really more difficult to play every other game on the road or play every game at a neutral site?

You're entitled to your opinion, but it is an opinion.

Well, Alabama is UNDEFEATED in regular season neutral site games over the past 10 years, but is 36-5 in true P5 road games, so what does that tell you? (Besides the fact that the Tide has been pretty good no matter where they play, but anyone can see they are more vulnerable on the road than at a neutral site).

Hey guys. Do you know the real difference between neutral site and home & home games? In home and home games the officials are from one conference or the other. In neutral site games they are from another conference.

So outside of the home venues getting hosed that is the only other difference.

I think one of the benefits of playing neutral site games is that it gives you greater flexibility.

Is there a particular team you want to play? See if you can do a one-off at a neutral site and you don't have to worry about finding room for 2 games on the schedule.

That and you know you're not going to get any cash from the road game, but you'll get something from the neutral site contest and still have room to schedule more home games against G5s and the like.

Of course, I would prefer these teams come through Tuscaloosa so I do agree that the local communities are getting hosed to a certain degree. Our town is small enough that each home game makes a dent in the economy.
03-28-2018 06:01 AM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Bama home/home with ND and Texas?
I have no interest in a road trip to either destination.

I'm not sure I follow the thought process behind the idea. We are in a position to not have to care. So, why should we?
03-28-2018 10:37 AM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Bama home/home with ND and Texas?
(03-28-2018 05:42 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(03-27-2018 04:22 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(03-27-2018 01:28 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(03-27-2018 01:35 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(03-26-2018 09:58 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  ...I read what you both said and the notion that a road game is more difficult than any neutral site game is an opinion. The level of competition is what determines the difficulty. Playing Florida State in Atlanta was much more difficult last season than Vanderbilt on the road. For that matter, playing a neutral site game is more difficult than playing a home game so is it really an empirical demonstration of quality to schedule a home and home? Only one of the two games is "on the road."

Comparing FSU to Vanderbilt is a straw-man argument. Let's look at the last 10 years (wherein the road opponents are nearly all SEC, so therefore balanced home/away):

Year Loss(es)
2017 at Auburn (road)
2016 Clemson (at Tampa)
2015 Ole Miss (home)
2014 at Ole Miss (road)
---- Ohio State (at New Orleans)
2013 at Auburn (road)
---- Oklahoma (at New Orleans)
2012 Texas A&M (home)
2011 LSU (home)
2010 at S Carolina (road)
---- at LSU (road)
---- Auburn (home)
2009 (none)
2008 Florida (at Atlanta)
---- Utah (at New Orleans)

Last 10 years, Alabama has
4 losses at home (in 70 home games, or 5.7%)
5 losses on the road (in 41 away games, or 12.2%)
5 losses at neutral sites (in 27 games, or 18.5%)
8-0 in the regular season, under conditions that Alabama controls (i.e. 1st game of the season, choose the opponent, etc.)
14-5 in the post-season, out of Alabama's control, vs. good competition. This is a different animal, so let's put these aside. Obviously Bama is good or they wouldn't put up such gaudy numbers... but don't discount the advantage of having the opposition come to you!

Based on regular season games, the Tide are more than TWICE as likely to lose on the road versus at home. That's not an opinion, it's a fact - and it holds for nearly every P5 team, not just Bama. Road games ARE tougher, given the same level of competition both home and away (which is what we are talking about - home and home SERIES).

We weren't comparing home games versus road games. We're comparing neutral site games versus road games. With that said, the strawman seems to be coming from you.

You also missed the point that a home/home series only produces 1 road game. Whatever disadvantage playing on the road causes is flipped for the other game...so...is it really more difficult to play every other game on the road or play every game at a neutral site?

You're entitled to your opinion, but it is an opinion.

Well, Alabama is UNDEFEATED in regular season neutral site games over the past 10 years, but is 36-5 in true P5 road games, so what does that tell you? (Besides the fact that the Tide has been pretty good no matter where they play, but anyone can see they are more vulnerable on the road than at a neutral site).

Undefeated in the regular season, not in the postseason.

Anyway, what we're really talking about is scheduling philosophy. You can make the argument that a road game is more difficult than a neutral site game if we're talking about precisely the same team in precisely the same year. Sure, I don't disagree with that at all.

But you can't say that a home/home is inherently more difficult than playing 2 neutral site games over the same period of time. Yes, you may have a difficult road game, but you also get an easier home game. No one is going to play exclusively road games against other P5 teams.

So my broader point was...why would fans of schools not named Alabama be worried about where Alabama is playing their games? I have no idea because I've never looked at another school's schedule and said "wow, it's just not fair that they're playing that game in that location."

For example, G5s don't get very many home games against P5s. You're not going to hear P5 fans say it's just not right that we don't return many trips. The games get played, cash gets exchanged, and no one looks at the record and says it doesn't mean that much.

It's all pretty much about economics. That's why we're looking at home/home series versus schools like Texas and Notre Dame. Those games will be huge draws even if the teams happen to be mediocre in their respective seasons.


Yes, and the same applies in reverse if Saban is gone by then and Alabama is mediocre in those respective seasons.
(This post was last modified: 03-28-2018 01:38 PM by TerryD.)
03-28-2018 01:38 PM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Bama home/home with ND and Texas?
(03-26-2018 06:31 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(03-26-2018 06:01 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(03-26-2018 04:00 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  This would be great for ND. I really love the way they schedule.

If there ever is a much larger playoff, one good thing will (hopefully) be more courageous scheduling, because it will be possible to be chosen for a large tournament with 3 or even 4 losses. It would be fun to have each P5 team play two non-con games vs. other P5 teams and for top programs to play each other a lot more often. As a fan, you want to see more of these games. Oklahoma at Ohio State and Georgia at ND were two of the best games last season.

If courageous scheduling is what you want then what we need to do is to consolidate into a P4 and have a champs only access. Who you schedule OOC won't matter at all. Win your conference and you are in.

That would defeat the purpose. It would devalue big regular season intersectional games between big schools not in the same conference.

Why would these big schools play each other if the games were essentially meaningless?
(This post was last modified: 03-29-2018 07:12 AM by TerryD.)
03-29-2018 07:06 AM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Bama home/home with ND and Texas?
(03-28-2018 01:38 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(03-28-2018 05:42 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(03-27-2018 04:22 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(03-27-2018 01:28 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(03-27-2018 01:35 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Comparing FSU to Vanderbilt is a straw-man argument. Let's look at the last 10 years (wherein the road opponents are nearly all SEC, so therefore balanced home/away):

Year Loss(es)
2017 at Auburn (road)
2016 Clemson (at Tampa)
2015 Ole Miss (home)
2014 at Ole Miss (road)
---- Ohio State (at New Orleans)
2013 at Auburn (road)
---- Oklahoma (at New Orleans)
2012 Texas A&M (home)
2011 LSU (home)
2010 at S Carolina (road)
---- at LSU (road)
---- Auburn (home)
2009 (none)
2008 Florida (at Atlanta)
---- Utah (at New Orleans)

Last 10 years, Alabama has
4 losses at home (in 70 home games, or 5.7%)
5 losses on the road (in 41 away games, or 12.2%)
5 losses at neutral sites (in 27 games, or 18.5%)
8-0 in the regular season, under conditions that Alabama controls (i.e. 1st game of the season, choose the opponent, etc.)
14-5 in the post-season, out of Alabama's control, vs. good competition. This is a different animal, so let's put these aside. Obviously Bama is good or they wouldn't put up such gaudy numbers... but don't discount the advantage of having the opposition come to you!

Based on regular season games, the Tide are more than TWICE as likely to lose on the road versus at home. That's not an opinion, it's a fact - and it holds for nearly every P5 team, not just Bama. Road games ARE tougher, given the same level of competition both home and away (which is what we are talking about - home and home SERIES).

We weren't comparing home games versus road games. We're comparing neutral site games versus road games. With that said, the strawman seems to be coming from you.

You also missed the point that a home/home series only produces 1 road game. Whatever disadvantage playing on the road causes is flipped for the other game...so...is it really more difficult to play every other game on the road or play every game at a neutral site?

You're entitled to your opinion, but it is an opinion.

Well, Alabama is UNDEFEATED in regular season neutral site games over the past 10 years, but is 36-5 in true P5 road games, so what does that tell you? (Besides the fact that the Tide has been pretty good no matter where they play, but anyone can see they are more vulnerable on the road than at a neutral site).

Undefeated in the regular season, not in the postseason.

Anyway, what we're really talking about is scheduling philosophy. You can make the argument that a road game is more difficult than a neutral site game if we're talking about precisely the same team in precisely the same year. Sure, I don't disagree with that at all.

But you can't say that a home/home is inherently more difficult than playing 2 neutral site games over the same period of time. Yes, you may have a difficult road game, but you also get an easier home game. No one is going to play exclusively road games against other P5 teams.

So my broader point was...why would fans of schools not named Alabama be worried about where Alabama is playing their games? I have no idea because I've never looked at another school's schedule and said "wow, it's just not fair that they're playing that game in that location."

For example, G5s don't get very many home games against P5s. You're not going to hear P5 fans say it's just not right that we don't return many trips. The games get played, cash gets exchanged, and no one looks at the record and says it doesn't mean that much.

It's all pretty much about economics. That's why we're looking at home/home series versus schools like Texas and Notre Dame. Those games will be huge draws even if the teams happen to be mediocre in their respective seasons.


Yes, and the same applies in reverse if Saban is gone by then and Alabama is mediocre in those respective seasons.

Pretty much.

These schools are drawn to one another for all the same reasons.
03-29-2018 03:28 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Bama home/home with ND and Texas?
(03-29-2018 07:06 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(03-26-2018 06:31 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(03-26-2018 06:01 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(03-26-2018 04:00 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  This would be great for ND. I really love the way they schedule.

If there ever is a much larger playoff, one good thing will (hopefully) be more courageous scheduling, because it will be possible to be chosen for a large tournament with 3 or even 4 losses. It would be fun to have each P5 team play two non-con games vs. other P5 teams and for top programs to play each other a lot more often. As a fan, you want to see more of these games. Oklahoma at Ohio State and Georgia at ND were two of the best games last season.

If courageous scheduling is what you want then what we need to do is to consolidate into a P4 and have a champs only access. Who you schedule OOC won't matter at all. Win your conference and you are in.

That would defeat the purpose. It would devalue big regular season intersectional games between big schools not in the same conference.

Why would these big schools play each other if the games were essentially meaningless?

For the revenue and exposure.
03-29-2018 04:10 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Bama home/home with ND and Texas?
Notre Dame - Alabama series has been officially announced. 2028 in South Bend, 2029 in Tuscaloosa.
04-19-2018 12:16 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Bama home/home with ND and Texas?
And now the Texas-Alabama series has been announced. They'll play in Austin in 2022 and in Tuscaloosa in 2023.
05-16-2018 10:59 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Bama home/home with ND and Texas?
(03-28-2018 01:38 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(03-28-2018 05:42 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(03-27-2018 04:22 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(03-27-2018 01:28 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(03-27-2018 01:35 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Comparing FSU to Vanderbilt is a straw-man argument. Let's look at the last 10 years (wherein the road opponents are nearly all SEC, so therefore balanced home/away):

Year Loss(es)
2017 at Auburn (road)
2016 Clemson (at Tampa)
2015 Ole Miss (home)
2014 at Ole Miss (road)
---- Ohio State (at New Orleans)
2013 at Auburn (road)
---- Oklahoma (at New Orleans)
2012 Texas A&M (home)
2011 LSU (home)
2010 at S Carolina (road)
---- at LSU (road)
---- Auburn (home)
2009 (none)
2008 Florida (at Atlanta)
---- Utah (at New Orleans)

Last 10 years, Alabama has
4 losses at home (in 70 home games, or 5.7%)
5 losses on the road (in 41 away games, or 12.2%)
5 losses at neutral sites (in 27 games, or 18.5%)
8-0 in the regular season, under conditions that Alabama controls (i.e. 1st game of the season, choose the opponent, etc.)
14-5 in the post-season, out of Alabama's control, vs. good competition. This is a different animal, so let's put these aside. Obviously Bama is good or they wouldn't put up such gaudy numbers... but don't discount the advantage of having the opposition come to you!

Based on regular season games, the Tide are more than TWICE as likely to lose on the road versus at home. That's not an opinion, it's a fact - and it holds for nearly every P5 team, not just Bama. Road games ARE tougher, given the same level of competition both home and away (which is what we are talking about - home and home SERIES).

We weren't comparing home games versus road games. We're comparing neutral site games versus road games. With that said, the strawman seems to be coming from you.

You also missed the point that a home/home series only produces 1 road game. Whatever disadvantage playing on the road causes is flipped for the other game...so...is it really more difficult to play every other game on the road or play every game at a neutral site?

You're entitled to your opinion, but it is an opinion.

Well, Alabama is UNDEFEATED in regular season neutral site games over the past 10 years, but is 36-5 in true P5 road games, so what does that tell you? (Besides the fact that the Tide has been pretty good no matter where they play, but anyone can see they are more vulnerable on the road than at a neutral site).

Undefeated in the regular season, not in the postseason.

Anyway, what we're really talking about is scheduling philosophy. You can make the argument that a road game is more difficult than a neutral site game if we're talking about precisely the same team in precisely the same year. Sure, I don't disagree with that at all.

But you can't say that a home/home is inherently more difficult than playing 2 neutral site games over the same period of time. Yes, you may have a difficult road game, but you also get an easier home game. No one is going to play exclusively road games against other P5 teams.

So my broader point was...why would fans of schools not named Alabama be worried about where Alabama is playing their games? I have no idea because I've never looked at another school's schedule and said "wow, it's just not fair that they're playing that game in that location."

For example, G5s don't get very many home games against P5s. You're not going to hear P5 fans say it's just not right that we don't return many trips. The games get played, cash gets exchanged, and no one looks at the record and says it doesn't mean that much.

It's all pretty much about economics. That's why we're looking at home/home series versus schools like Texas and Notre Dame. Those games will be huge draws even if the teams happen to be mediocre in their respective seasons.


Yes, and the same applies in reverse if Saban is gone by then and Alabama is mediocre in those respective seasons.

Saban would be 77 when the first game is played. As tightly as he is wound, he'll be lucky to live that long.
05-17-2018 10:54 AM
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arkstfan Away
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Post: #37
RE: Bama home/home with ND and Texas?
(05-17-2018 10:54 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(03-28-2018 01:38 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(03-28-2018 05:42 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(03-27-2018 04:22 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(03-27-2018 01:28 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  We weren't comparing home games versus road games. We're comparing neutral site games versus road games. With that said, the strawman seems to be coming from you.

You also missed the point that a home/home series only produces 1 road game. Whatever disadvantage playing on the road causes is flipped for the other game...so...is it really more difficult to play every other game on the road or play every game at a neutral site?

You're entitled to your opinion, but it is an opinion.

Well, Alabama is UNDEFEATED in regular season neutral site games over the past 10 years, but is 36-5 in true P5 road games, so what does that tell you? (Besides the fact that the Tide has been pretty good no matter where they play, but anyone can see they are more vulnerable on the road than at a neutral site).

Undefeated in the regular season, not in the postseason.

Anyway, what we're really talking about is scheduling philosophy. You can make the argument that a road game is more difficult than a neutral site game if we're talking about precisely the same team in precisely the same year. Sure, I don't disagree with that at all.

But you can't say that a home/home is inherently more difficult than playing 2 neutral site games over the same period of time. Yes, you may have a difficult road game, but you also get an easier home game. No one is going to play exclusively road games against other P5 teams.

So my broader point was...why would fans of schools not named Alabama be worried about where Alabama is playing their games? I have no idea because I've never looked at another school's schedule and said "wow, it's just not fair that they're playing that game in that location."

For example, G5s don't get very many home games against P5s. You're not going to hear P5 fans say it's just not right that we don't return many trips. The games get played, cash gets exchanged, and no one looks at the record and says it doesn't mean that much.

It's all pretty much about economics. That's why we're looking at home/home series versus schools like Texas and Notre Dame. Those games will be huge draws even if the teams happen to be mediocre in their respective seasons.


Yes, and the same applies in reverse if Saban is gone by then and Alabama is mediocre in those respective seasons.

Saban would be 77 when the first game is played. As tightly as he is wound, he'll be lucky to live that long.

Actually guys like Saban usually function just fine well past retirement age. It's when they try to unwind and relax and no longer have the thing they loved doing that they tend to drop dead of a stroke or heart attack.
05-17-2018 01:19 PM
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Hokie Mark Online
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Post: #38
RE: Bama home/home with ND and Texas?
Alabama is scheduled to play one P5 OOC opponent per year, with all of those games coming in week 1 only...

2018 - Louisville (in Orlando)
2019 - Duke (in Atlanta)
2020 - USC (in Arlington)
2021 - Miami (in Atlanta)
2022 - at Texas
2023 - Texas
. . .
2028 - at Notre Dame
2029 - Notre Dame

Still only 9 P5 games per season (when most non-SEC contenders play 10), but it's still an improvement over Duke...
05-17-2018 09:42 PM
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