How is the AAC a perfect fit for Wichita? Unless they add FBS football, the Valley or maybe the A-10 would be as good a fit as you can get.

(03-28-2018 03:47 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  How is the AAC a perfect fit for Wichita? Unless they add FBS football, the Valley or maybe the A-10 would be as good a fit as you can get.

It's at least a decent fit. Tulsa is an old, intense rival. Memphis and Cincinnati used to be in the Valley with them generations ago.

The rest is a quirky, made-for-NCAA units shotgun marriage.

Cincinnati, Memphis, Tulsa, Houston are all urban schools like Wichita. That’s who Wichita aspires to be.

I know it's a real city in some senses but I wouldn't compare the urbanity of Wichita with most any city in the AAC.

(03-28-2018 04:15 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  I know it's a real city in some senses but I wouldn't compare the urbanity of Wichita with most any city in the AAC.

All the reasons listed above and it also provides a gap filler geographically. The western part of the AAC fits rather nicely with Wichita, Tulsa, Memphis, Dallas, Houston & New Orleans.

Tulsa maybe...

(03-28-2018 03:32 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(03-28-2018 01:33 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  So Wichita State wired $2.5 million to the AAC to join and lost about $1 million in revenue from the MVC. That is the kind of move you make if you really want to join a conference. The AAC did not make any concessions to Wichita State.

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wic...58984.html

If the MWC is making concessions to Gonzaga, then it looks like the MWC needs Gonzaga more than Gonzaga needs them. It makes the MWC look desperate.

Bad comparison.
1. Wichita St wanted out of the MVC badly. They approached the MWC who wasn’t interested due to geography, and the AAC who was a perfect fit.
2. Gonzaga is not desperate like Wichita St was.
3. Gonzaga has been a basketball power for 20 years. Wichita St struggled for a long while and then got a great coach. Gonzaga is a bigger get than Wichita St.

Actually, it is a good comparison. If a school really wants to leave, it pays the money and loses the revenue in the short term. Wichita State talked about the upgrade in both athletics and academics by joining the AAC. The $2.5 million entry fee, paid up front, was well worth it for them.

Gonzaga is debating leaving for the MWC. They were able to get the concessions that they were looking for from the WCC and the new conference commissioner. Academically, the WCC is a better conference and is a conference of similar schools. It really comes down to just one sport for Gonzaga and if the school is not as certain as Wichita State was, then what is the point of moving?

San Jose State paid $2 million for an entry fee in 2013 to join the MWC. Why spend the money and lose the WCC revenue on a move if you are not 100% sure of the move?

(03-28-2018 03:47 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  How is the AAC a perfect fit for Wichita? Unless they add FBS football, the Valley or maybe the A-10 would be as good a fit as you can get.

Its a perfect fit because the AAC is the highest profile league they could enter. It also is packed full of Carnegie Tier One Research schools that Wichita wants to associate with as part of their own quest to become Tier One. The move by Gonzaga pretty much tells you Wichita did the right thing. Success is copied---not failure. The Wichita move worked very well for both parties involved. That about as close to "perfect" as it gets.

I don't see how any of that makes it a perfect fit. It's a good marriage at best.

(03-29-2018 10:26 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  San Jose State paid $2 million for an entry fee in 2013 to join the MWC. Why spend the money and lose the WCC revenue on a move if you are not 100% sure of the move?

I would be surprised if the Mountain West is proposing to charge Gonzaga an entry fee. If they are, that's not a good sign. If they don't want you enough to waive the entry fee, Gonzaga, then they don't want you badly enough to make a move.

In fact, Gonzaga ought to insist on the MWC charging them no entry fee AND no exit fee, so that if they decide after awhile that the MWC isn't such a good fit after all, they can try to get back into the WCC without having to pay the MWC on the way out.

(03-29-2018 12:20 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  I don't see how any of that makes it a perfect fit. It's a good marriage at best.

"Perfect" is a hard word to live up to in any situation. Lets just say the AAC is a better fit than the A-10 or any other viable alternative Wichita had.

(03-29-2018 12:20 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  I don't see how any of that makes it a perfect fit. It's a good marriage at best.

This. It is a mutually beneficial relationship. Wichita State has very little in common, academically with a majority of AAC schools. They were invited because Wichita State was looking for a stronger men's basketball conference in order to help with their tournament seeding and national perception. The AAC needed to strengthen its men's basketball product due to the lack of postseason success and the overall dead weight at the bottom of the conference (historically) - USF, Tulane and ECU. Both groups needed each other. If UConn and Memphis were not down, I honestly don't think Wichita State gets an invitation.

(03-29-2018 10:26 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  It really comes down to just one sport for Gonzaga and if the school is not as certain as Wichita State was, then what is the point of moving?

Who says they aren't as certain?

To some extent, this isn't a lot unlike CoC. It seemed pretty clear from those in the know CoC was going to leave SoCon, but virtually none of the official school language indicated anything more than studying options or assessing viability. It also seemed to drag on forever.

I don't understand why some WCC mbb changes seem to "prove" Gonzaga won at the table. Third post about this, nobody's able to say why or how. Or how the changes can even be enforced. This is the kind of stuff the WCC must to do keep Gonzaga. Sure, WCC could have just said "go pound sand," but, all it says is that the WCC is serious about keeping Gonzaga. Says nothing FOR Gonzaga, though.

(03-29-2018 12:31 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-29-2018 10:26 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  San Jose State paid $2 million for an entry fee in 2013 to join the MWC. Why spend the money and lose the WCC revenue on a move if you are not 100% sure of the move?

I would be surprised if the Mountain West is proposing to charge Gonzaga an entry fee. If they are, that's not a good sign. If they don't want you enough to waive the entry fee, Gonzaga, then they don't want you badly enough to make a move.

In fact, Gonzaga ought to insist on the MWC charging them no entry fee AND no exit fee, so that if they decide after awhile that the MWC isn't such a good fit after all, they can try to get back into the WCC without having to pay the MWC on the way out.

That's not how things work. Waiving the entry fee would be one thing but letting them have a total free ride? It's not like Gonzaga is all that great. They've been very good for a long time but great. Still only 1 Final Four team in 20 seasons. Only 8 Sweet 16 appearances and 5 in 17 years. 3 trips beyond that.

I like Gonzaga but they aren't life or death to any conference except the WCC.

C2,

All conferences have a sticker price for entry, just like buying a car; think of it as "dealer mark up". You can waive that or not depending upon supply and demand. All conferences will modify it if they want the school badly enough. And in the big picture $2.5M paid to the other members over 5 years (with a cut for the league) is a rounding error for their athletic budgets (about $55K for five years). If Gonzaga causes the MWC to earn just 2 additional credits over 8 years they pay back and then some the waived entry fee and 30% instead of 25% TV share (this amounts to even less, around $6K per school) .

Only an idiot would let such a small thing make a difference.

SJSU had zero leverage, the MWC had other options. So SJSU had to pay the full fee. On the other hand the Big East (American) gave San Diego State a waiver for both entry and exit fee because they had leverage.

Why are you hung up on this? It's the way the world works. Or have you never negotiated a better price for something?

(03-29-2018 10:26 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(03-28-2018 03:32 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(03-28-2018 01:33 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  So Wichita State wired $2.5 million to the AAC to join and lost about $1 million in revenue from the MVC. That is the kind of move you make if you really want to join a conference. The AAC did not make any concessions to Wichita State.

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wic...58984.html

If the MWC is making concessions to Gonzaga, then it looks like the MWC needs Gonzaga more than Gonzaga needs them. It makes the MWC look desperate.

Bad comparison.
1. Wichita St wanted out of the MVC badly. They approached the MWC who wasn’t interested due to geography, and the AAC who was a perfect fit.
2. Gonzaga is not desperate like Wichita St was.
3. Gonzaga has been a basketball power for 20 years. Wichita St struggled for a long while and then got a great coach. Gonzaga is a bigger get than Wichita St.

Actually, it is a good comparison. If a school really wants to leave, it pays the money and loses the revenue in the short term. Wichita State talked about the upgrade in both athletics and academics by joining the AAC. The $2.5 million entry fee, paid up front, was well worth it for them.

Why spend the money and lose the WCC revenue on a move if you are not 100% sure of the move?

I don’t know.....Why do YOU think Gonxaga is thinking about moving if everything is so great for them in the WCC?

(03-29-2018 01:13 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  All conferences have a sticker price for entry, just like buying a car; think of it as "dealer mark up". You can waive that or not depending upon supply and demand.

Right. SJSU would have crawled on broken glass to get out of the WAC, where football was going away, and into the MWC. Gonzaga should have more leverage. If the MWC is treating Gonzaga like SJSU, then IMO they don't value Gonzaga enough.

It's like taking a new job. If you really really need that job (SJSU) then you take the terms the company offers and go to work. But if you already have a good-enough job and you're just looking to find something that is hopefully better (Gonzaga), then you only move if the people at the new job really want you and show it (with salary, perks, job status, whatever); in that situation you don't switch to a new job where the people really don't care much whether you join them or not.

(03-29-2018 01:24 PM)Wedge Wrote:  It's like taking a new job. If you really really need that job (SJSU) then you take the terms the company offers and go to work. But if you already have a good-enough job and you're just looking to find something that is hopefully better (Gonzaga), then you only move if the people at the new job really want you and show it (with salary, perks, job status, whatever); in that situation you don't switch to a new job where the people really don't care much whether you join them or not.

Yeah, this is a good analogy. I think Gonzaga gave the WCC a copy of its offer letter(s), and what you're seeing WCC provide is the counter to keep them with the conference. Really, it's standard practice.

It would have been more shocking if WCC didn't come back with anything and just said, "good, take it...we'll get by without you, because we're happy with the way things are."

Basically, adding Gonzaga is the equivalent of adding Marquette or Butler except the small detail that they're in a smaller market that's much harder to both get to and recruit from. You waive all fees to add a school like Villanova or Georgetown until 5 or so years ago, not the Zags. They're not even on the level of Xavier, regardless of a farther best advancement.

(03-29-2018 01:24 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-29-2018 01:13 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  All conferences have a sticker price for entry, just like buying a car; think of it as "dealer mark up". You can waive that or not depending upon supply and demand.

Right. SJSU would have crawled on broken glass to get out of the WAC, where football was going away, and into the MWC. Gonzaga should have more leverage. If the MWC is treating Gonzaga like SJSU, then IMO they don't value Gonzaga enough.

It's like taking a new job. If you really really need that job (SJSU) then you take the terms the company offers and go to work. But if you already have a good-enough job and you're just looking to find something that is hopefully better (Gonzaga), then you only move if the people at the new job really want you and show it (with salary, perks, job status, whatever); in that situation you don't switch to a new job where the people really don't care much whether you join them or not.

Gonzaga is not SJSU but they aren't Villanova either. You don't walk Hell over high water to add them. While the MWC doesn't have any leverage, neither does Gonzaga. They're a school that could add something to the conference but aren't a traditional Blue Blood either