This link is courtesy of Rocket City Sooner:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-much-is...1522670400


Big 10:
2. Indiana $243.0
6. Wisconsin $160.7
8. Ohio State $143.3
10. Maryland $131.9
12. Purdue $103.3
13. Illinois $100.8
14. Northwestern $100.1
17. Michigan $95.5
18. Minnesota $91.4
26. Michigan State $68.3
29. Iowa $63.8
32. Penn State $62.5
48. Nebraska $46.5
********************
75. Rutgers $31.0

Big 10 Total Valuation: $1,442,100,000
Big 10 Average: $103,007,143



ACC:
3. Louisville $233.6
5. Duke $169.8
7. Syracuse $149.6
11. North Carolina $118.9
33. Pittsburgh $62.7
37. Clemson $58.1
38. N.C. State $57.5
42. Miami $50.8
43. Virginia $49.8
50. Florida State $46.0
62. Virginia Tech $37.9
*********************
68. Wake Forest $34.3
78. Boston College $29.7
81. Georgia Tech $27.7
105. Note Dame $14.5

ACC Total Valuation: $1,140,900,000
ACC Average: $76,060,000



SEC:
1. Kentucky $246.6
15. Arkansas $98.3
19. Florida $84.3
22. Alabama $74.7
23. Tennessee $74.2
30. South Carolina $63.7
41. Georgia $52.6
47. Mississippi $47.5
50. Missouri $45.6
52. Auburn $45.4
53. Vanderbilt $44.6
56. Texas A&M $43.1
64. Mississippi State $37.4
***********************
66. Louisiana State $36.5

SEC Total Valuation: $994,500,000
SEC Average: $71,035,714



Big 12:
4. Kansas $191.2
21. Texas $77.1
27. Oklahoma State $68.2
31. Iowa State $62.8
36. Oklahoma $58.2
39. Kansas State $56.2
59. T.C.U. $39.7
**********************
67. Baylor $34.4
69. Texas Tech $34.2
70. West Virginia $33.5

Big 12 Total Valuation: $655,500,000
Big 12 Average: $65,550,000



PAC 12:
9. Arizona $133.9
16. U.C.L.A. $96.7
28. Washington $64.2
44. California $48.9
46. Arizona State $47.8
51. Colorado $45.5
57. Stanford $41.7
63. Oregon $37.8
*********************
73. Utah $31.5
83. Oregon State $26.3
89. Washington State $23.4
93. U.S.C. $20.9

PAC 12 Total Valuation: $618,600,000
PAC 12 Average: $51,550,000

____________________________________________________________________

If you look at the Conferences' Average Per Team Totals you will see that the top 3 conferences all suffered significant declines in basketball valuation. The bottom two conferences saw modest gains.

Big 10 Average Team Valuation for 2016 was $115,734,143 / 2017 $103,007,143 for a difference of $12,727,000

ACC Average Team Valuation for 2016 was $88,976,134 / 2017 $76,060,000 for a difference of $12,916,134

SEC Average Team Valuation for 2016 was $82,734,500 / 2017 $71,035,714 for a difference of $11,698,786

Big 12 Average Team Valuation for 2016 was $62,853,500 / 2017 $65,550,000 for a difference of $2,696,500

PAC 12 Average Team Valuation for 2016 was $47,965,083 / 2017 $51,550,000 for a difference of $3,584,917


I would say that the total value for basketball dropped significantly year over year for 2016/17. The gains were marginal and by the conferences earning the least. Again this demonstrates just how much more valuable football is than basketball.

We'll see how football does against 2016 numbers when the WSJ issues those valuations.

It's fun to argue about. Can't say I'd agree that (for example) the hypothetical "franchise value" of Northwestern men's basketball is two and a half times that of Villanova. Maybe the argument is that, like the Miami Marlins in MLB, even if the team never wins, they are still tapping into a lucrative revenue stream.

I am shocked that Mississippi State isn’t worth more in SEC basketball. Sure, the Bulldogs aren’t the ‘Cats nor the ‘Hawgs, but I would at least expect them to surpass us (UGa) & Tennessee in basketball. I would think that UGa basketball would be worth what Mississippi State basketball is currently valued at.

(04-03-2018 12:41 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  I am shocked that Mississippi State isn’t worth more in SEC basketball. Sure, the Bulldogs aren’t the ‘Cats nor the ‘Hawgs, but I would at least expect them to surpass us (UGa) & Tennessee in basketball. I would think that UGa basketball would be worth what Mississippi State basketball is currently valued at.

Tennessee has a 20K seat arena and usually gets really good attendance every year. They're not an elite brand, but well supported.

To me, the best basketball brands in the SEC are:

1. Kentucky
2. Arkansas
3. Florida
4. Tennessee
5. Missouri(even though they had a really bad rough patch)

Alabama had some nice runs in the 70s and 80s so maybe they're next, but they haven't been a consistent presence in the tournament for quite a while.

It will be interesting to see if the valuations of the 3 top conferences continue to sag over the coming years. I have a feeling that omnipresence on the tube, be they large HD, or small and mobile, may be driving down the valuation of a sport that few of the largest ethnic demographic play, and with those from that demographic that did play it dying out, may not even hold a great deal of interest for the subsequent generations.

It has been noted already that the NBA numbers continue to sag and college numbers for basketball have been down. If the WSJ is picking up on this and that calculates into the valuations I don't think it trends well for the NCAA who makes their money on the back of this sport.

That doesn't mean the tournament is failing as it is still very popular, but it does mean that the regular season is suffering more than even first thought and that merchandise sales for basketball programs is likely sagging as well.

(04-03-2018 01:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  It has been noted already that the NBA numbers continue to sag

No, the NBA ratings are going up while other college and pro sports ratings go down.

http://awfulannouncing.com/nba/nba-ratin...ewers.html

Quote:Per Nielsen data, the combined average TV viewership for NBA national broadcasts on TNT, ESPN, ABC and NBA TV is 1.4 million viewers, which is up 17 percent from the 2016-2017 regular season and the most-watched start to a season since 2012-2013. That’s also the biggest ratings growth in North American pro sports, and outpaces the majority of linear television, which has largely seen ratings decline. The growth is particularly strong among the younger demographics that TV advertisers crave, including adults 18-34 and 18-49, unlike Major League Baseball, which remains most popular among Baby Boomers.

Why? My guess is that the NBA is doing better with younger viewers because the games are both entertaining and much shorter than football or baseball games.

And the latter reason is why both CFB and the NFL have looked into ways to cut the length of their games, although there is probably way too much inertia for the football powers-that-be to agree to any meaningful ways to keep game times at 3 hours or less (which would still be 45 minutes longer than an average NBA game).

(04-03-2018 01:33 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(04-03-2018 01:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  It has been noted already that the NBA numbers continue to sag

No, the NBA ratings are going up while other college and pro sports ratings go down.

http://awfulannouncing.com/nba/nba-ratin...ewers.html

Quote:Per Nielsen data, the combined average TV viewership for NBA national broadcasts on TNT, ESPN, ABC and NBA TV is 1.4 million viewers, which is up 17 percent from the 2016-2017 regular season and the most-watched start to a season since 2012-2013. That’s also the biggest ratings growth in North American pro sports, and outpaces the majority of linear television, which has largely seen ratings decline. The growth is particularly strong among the younger demographics that TV advertisers crave, including adults 18-34 and 18-49, unlike Major League Baseball, which remains most popular among Baby Boomers.

Why? My guess is that the NBA is doing better with younger viewers because the games are both entertaining and much shorter than football or baseball games.

And the latter reason is why both CFB and the NFL have looked into ways to cut the length of their games, although there is probably way too much inertia for the football powers-that-be to agree to any meaningful ways to keep game times at 3 hours or less (which would still be 45 minutes longer than an average NBA game).

I'll have to dig a little bit, but the NBA had been trending down for some time. And it is possible to get a 17% bump when you've bottomed. Now for the real question, what % of total sports viewership does the NBA have compared to CFB and the NFL?

For instance last year 112 million viewers watched the Super Bowl (single event) while only 20.4 million watched the NBA Finals. Roughly 47% of Americans identify themselves as college football fans, while only 38% do as college basketball fans. But, the viewing #'s for the tourney are much higher than for the regular season NCAA games. While the CFP games draw slightly higher than the regular season NCAA key football games.

Last year only 25 regular season basketball games drew a 1.5 share and those included games like Duke / N.Carolina etc.

So to have awful announcing claim that there was a 17% bump I have to ask bump off of what? And btw the CFP this year was up over 20% in viewership.

So again, "there are lies, damned lies, and statistics" so I guess depending upon the sources you read you really can support almost any argument depending upon how focused or how broad the data search happened to be.

But one assumption I'm willing to make is that the majority of Americans claiming to be college basketball fans probably more closely identify with the tourney, and not the following of a particular school's regular season.

(04-03-2018 02:01 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-03-2018 01:33 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(04-03-2018 01:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  It has been noted already that the NBA numbers continue to sag

No, the NBA ratings are going up while other college and pro sports ratings go down.

http://awfulannouncing.com/nba/nba-ratin...ewers.html

Quote:Per Nielsen data, the combined average TV viewership for NBA national broadcasts on TNT, ESPN, ABC and NBA TV is 1.4 million viewers, which is up 17 percent from the 2016-2017 regular season and the most-watched start to a season since 2012-2013. That’s also the biggest ratings growth in North American pro sports, and outpaces the majority of linear television, which has largely seen ratings decline. The growth is particularly strong among the younger demographics that TV advertisers crave, including adults 18-34 and 18-49, unlike Major League Baseball, which remains most popular among Baby Boomers.

Why? My guess is that the NBA is doing better with younger viewers because the games are both entertaining and much shorter than football or baseball games.

And the latter reason is why both CFB and the NFL have looked into ways to cut the length of their games, although there is probably way too much inertia for the football powers-that-be to agree to any meaningful ways to keep game times at 3 hours or less (which would still be 45 minutes longer than an average NBA game).

I'll have to dig a little bit, but the NBA had been trending down for some time. And it is possible to get a 17% bump when you've bottomed. Now for the real question, what % of total sports viewership does the NBA have compared to CFB and the NFL?

For instance last year 112 million viewers watched the Super Bowl (single event) while only 20.4 million watched the NBA Finals. Roughly 47% of Americans identify themselves as college football fans, while only 38% do as college basketball fans. But, the viewing #'s for the tourney are much higher than for the regular season NCAA games. While the CFP games draw slightly higher than the regular season NCAA key football games.

Last year only 25 regular season basketball games drew a 1.5 share and those included games like Duke / N.Carolina etc.

So to have awful announcing claim that there was a 17% bump I have to ask bump off of what? And btw the CFP this year was up over 20% in viewership.

So again, "there are lies, damned lies, and statistics" so I guess depending upon the sources you read you really can support almost any argument depending upon how focused or how broad the data search happened to be.

But one assumption I'm willing to make is that the majority of Americans claiming to be college basketball fans probably more closely identify with the tourney, and not the following of a particular school's regular season.

The NBA does better than college basketball on TV -- the last game of the finals last year had 24.5 million viewers according to Nielsen, compared to 22.8 million for last year's UNC-Gonzaga final, even though the Final Four is played in early April when there are a lot more people watching TV overall than in mid-June when the NBA finals are played. (That's a fairer comparison, between two games on OTA network TV, than using this year's ratings, because this year's Final Four was on TBS.)

Also, in the regular season the gap between NBA ratings and college hoops ratings is much greater because, as you mentioned so many casual fans watch only the NCAA tournament and not the regular season.

No question football still has more viewers overall, so for CFB and NFL you could argue that losing 10% off of the previous year (as the NFL did in 2017) isn't as much of a concern as it would be for, say, the NHL.

(04-03-2018 02:16 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(04-03-2018 02:01 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-03-2018 01:33 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(04-03-2018 01:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  It has been noted already that the NBA numbers continue to sag

No, the NBA ratings are going up while other college and pro sports ratings go down.

http://awfulannouncing.com/nba/nba-ratin...ewers.html

Quote:Per Nielsen data, the combined average TV viewership for NBA national broadcasts on TNT, ESPN, ABC and NBA TV is 1.4 million viewers, which is up 17 percent from the 2016-2017 regular season and the most-watched start to a season since 2012-2013. That’s also the biggest ratings growth in North American pro sports, and outpaces the majority of linear television, which has largely seen ratings decline. The growth is particularly strong among the younger demographics that TV advertisers crave, including adults 18-34 and 18-49, unlike Major League Baseball, which remains most popular among Baby Boomers.

Why? My guess is that the NBA is doing better with younger viewers because the games are both entertaining and much shorter than football or baseball games.

And the latter reason is why both CFB and the NFL have looked into ways to cut the length of their games, although there is probably way too much inertia for the football powers-that-be to agree to any meaningful ways to keep game times at 3 hours or less (which would still be 45 minutes longer than an average NBA game).

I'll have to dig a little bit, but the NBA had been trending down for some time. And it is possible to get a 17% bump when you've bottomed. Now for the real question, what % of total sports viewership does the NBA have compared to CFB and the NFL?

For instance last year 112 million viewers watched the Super Bowl (single event) while only 20.4 million watched the NBA Finals. Roughly 47% of Americans identify themselves as college football fans, while only 38% do as college basketball fans. But, the viewing #'s for the tourney are much higher than for the regular season NCAA games. While the CFP games draw slightly higher than the regular season NCAA key football games.

Last year only 25 regular season basketball games drew a 1.5 share and those included games like Duke / N.Carolina etc.

So to have awful announcing claim that there was a 17% bump I have to ask bump off of what? And btw the CFP this year was up over 20% in viewership.

So again, "there are lies, damned lies, and statistics" so I guess depending upon the sources you read you really can support almost any argument depending upon how focused or how broad the data search happened to be.

But one assumption I'm willing to make is that the majority of Americans claiming to be college basketball fans probably more closely identify with the tourney, and not the following of a particular school's regular season.

The NBA does better than college basketball on TV -- the last game of the finals last year had 24.5 million viewers according to Nielsen, compared to 22.8 million for last year's UNC-Gonzaga final, even though the Final Four is played in early April when there are a lot more people watching TV overall than in mid-June when the NBA finals are played. (That's a fairer comparison, between two games on OTA network TV, than using this year's ratings, because this year's Final Four was on TBS.)

Also, in the regular season the gap between NBA ratings and college hoops ratings is much greater because, as you mentioned so many casual fans watch only the NCAA tournament and not the regular season.

No question football still has more viewers overall, so for CFB and NFL you could argue that losing 10% off of the previous year (as the NFL did in 2017) isn't as much of a concern as it would be for, say, the NHL.

I'm aboard with that assessment. What's curious about the WSJ's numbers are those valuations are also inclusive of the program's estimated economic impact on their sphere of support. I don't know if that says more about fan excitement than it does the economy. I have a sneaking suspicion that with the rise of health care and the elimination of food costs from calculating the inflation rate, that for many in our country that disposable household income has taken a significant but cumulative hit over the past 5 years or so. If that's the case the tightening of purchasing for non essential buys may well have helped to take a bite out of the Big 10/SEC/ACC valuations for basketball. Those three conferences have some of the largest and oldest alumni bases and cover a heavily populated area. Whereas disposable income may not have been as big of a factor among the college graduates of the PAC, and their valuation increases may have been incremental gains in the athletic revenue base, more than trends in merchandising. But that's just a hunch.

The thing to keep in mind about the NBA is that it has the strongest social media presence & most connected fan base of the Big 4 pro leagues,not to mention a large oversees audience.

Here's the full list of schools, if anyone's interested. I included the 2015 figures too.


Obviously, they're missing about half the DI schools, but the big ones are all there.

(04-03-2018 06:22 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Here's the full list of schools, if anyone's interested. I included the 2015 figures too.

Code:

  #  SCHOOL                    2017       2016       2015
  1  Kentucky             246626000  342607000  244274000
  2  Indiana              243004000  277834000  243797000
  3  Louisville           233636000  320112000  301316000
  4  Kansas               191193000  181447000  258191000
  5  Duke                 169814000  190266000  203910000
  6  Wisconsin            160680000  178896000  206881000
  7  Syracuse             149563000  153942000  203920000
  8  Ohio State           143313000  177892000  240390000
  9  Arizona              133850000  123354000  235431000
 10  Maryland             131871000  154629000  123917000
 11  North Carolina       118875000  143015000  221604000
 12  Purdue               103278000  140440000  109559000
 13  Illinois             100760000  127004000  109124000
 14  Northwestern         100085000   93295000   81476000
 15  Arkansas              98262000  111906000   97449000
 16  UCLA                  96715000   97797000   81680000
 17  Michigan              95449000   97329000   82141000
 18  Minnesota             91420000   77855000   99709000
 19  Florida               84595000   84261000   49617000
 20  Dayton                84463000   88415000   80594000
 21  Texas                 77065000   78658000   77069000
 22  Alabama               74716000   88473000   83416000
 23  Tennessee             74159000   80352000   84498000
 24  Connecticut           73180000   57962000  137895000
 25  Marquette             69295000   71918000   59623000
 26  Michigan State        68282000   92061000  126606000
 27  Oklahoma State        68223000   53513000   53994000
 28  Washington            64201000   56725000   46532000
 29  Iowa                  63834000   60765000   62853000
 30  South Carolina        63737000   60649000   45597000
 31  Iowa State            62819000   67899000   62655000
 32  Penn State            62451000   64334000   68696000
 33  Pittsburgh            60697000   91298000   77242000
 34  Xavier                59904000   70562000   78084000
 35  Georgetown            58361000   47910000   42157000
 36  Oklahoma              58220000   51865000   51188000
 37  Clemson               58077000   56124000   32609000
 38  NC State              57450000   65488000   85232000
 39  Kansas State          56167000   57962000   76664000
 40  VCU                   52873000   56930000   50144000
 41  Georgia               52641000   37960000   33390000
 42  Miami-FL              50805000   37523000   44154000
 43  Virginia              49808000   78955000   79221000
 44  California            48859000   30822000   59658000
 45  Gonzaga               47999000   57927000   48578000
 46  Arizona State         47773000   46517000   43145000
 47  Ole Miss              47481000   51710000   38196000
 48  Nebraska              46465000   48537000   41305000
 49  Florida State         45960000   49085000   43782000
 50  Missouri              45620000   54584000   58274000
 51  Colorado              45540000   46662000   35502000
 52  Auburn                45419000   59473000   46730000
 53  Vanderbilt            44575000   44593000   39912000
 54  St. John's            44337000   45213000   55036000
 55  Villanova             43107000   50534000   40445000
 56  Texas A&M             43071000   44100000   38255000
 57  Stanford              41661000   35684000   39595000
 58  Memphis               41564000   48139000   34541000
 59  TCU                   39711000   37430000   27552000
 60  Wichita State         38393000   48906000   34488000
 61  South Florida         37975000   83745000   66829000
 62  Virginia Tech         37852000   44218000   46407000
 63  Oregon                37783000   32975000   31472000
 64  Mississippi State     37431000   58798000   37181000
 65  BYU                   36568000   26135000   28604000
 66  LSU                   36501000   38817000   37321000
 67  Baylor                34364000   33341000   39592000
 68  Wake Forest           34287000   34917000   36422000
 69  Texas Tech            34193000   30870000   34383000
 70  West Virginia         33532000   35550000   36964000
 71  Butler                32987000   22588000   20240000
 72  Providence            32787000   31734000   29656000
 73  Utah                  31475000   33894000   37388000
 74  Creighton             31417000   31619000   28084000
 75  Rutgers               31043000   28777000   25938000
 76  Cincinnati            31025000   32093000   33469000
 77  San Diego State       30931000   37871000   28110000
 78  Boston College        29738000   31773000   28175000
 79  DePaul                29597000   27210000   42911000
 80  SMU                   28130000   28804000   27406000
 81  Georgia Tech          27647000   24173000   28558000
 82  Nevada                26966000   24281000   17809000
 83  Oregon State          26306000   24789000   24898000
 84  UNLV                  25918000   26947000   46032000
 85  Houston               24578000   29387000   22658000
 86  UAB                   24344000   31762000   22250000
 87  Seton Hall            24270000   25715000   27689000
 88  St. Louis             24171000   28094000   18570000
 89  Washington State      23404000   24953000   24067000
 90  Tulsa                 22785000   23361000   22997000
 91  Temple                22510000   24449000   21209000
 92  New Mexico            21472000   31249000   27023000
 93  USC                   20862000   21409000   22181000
 94  Massachusetts         18921000   16963000   17710000
 95  Wyoming               18757000   17530000   20019000
 96  Colorado State        18648000   18370000   20486000
 97  Central Florida       17102000   16568000   22770000
 98  George Mason          16628000   15847000   20065000
 99  Boise State           16310000   19805000   17334000
100  UTEP                  16166000   17075000   12363000
101  Utah State            15973000   16951000   15696000
102  Akron                 15935000   18608000   14321000
103  East Carolina         15592000   15464000   16293000
104  James Madison         14701000   16888000   14613000
105  Notre Dame            14485000   13753000   14886000
106  Tulane                14464000   12536000    8474000
107  Rice                  14281000   13951000   13313000
108  Fresno State          14208000   14592000   11634000
109  Murray State          13986000   16380000   13534000
110  UC Irvine             13920000   14702000   13850000
111  North Texas           13778000   10653000   12121000
112  Western Kentucky      12927000   13991000   13048000
113  Texas State           12744000   13102000   12857000
114  Hawaii                12680000   13491000   13896000
115  Valparaiso            12598000   12582000   12041000
116  Northern Iowa         12560000   11656000    3026000
117  Davidson              12123000   10947000   10719000
118  Ohio                  11465000   12151000   14245000
119  Middle Tennessee      11369000   11515000   10375000
120  Marshall              11124000   11515000   11697000
121  Georgia State         11045000   11645000   11534000
122  Northeastern          11007000   11674000   10908000
123  Loyola-Chicago        11004000        N/A        N/A
124  New Mexico State      10877000   12163000   12991000
125  Belmont               10772000   11736000   10074000
126  Toledo                10632000   10582000   10346000
127  Buffalo               10544000   10406000   10507000
128  Western Michigan      10494000   10127000   10476000
129  Miami-OH              10449000    9881000    9208000
130  Montana               10100000    7432000    7654000
131  Evansville             9957000   10763000    9624000
132  Louisiana Tech         9877000    9910000   11173000
133  Bowling Green          9713000    9750000    8858000
134  Troy                   9696000    6157000    9563000
135  Iona                   9674000    9429000    9078000
136  La Salle               9614000   11199000    1665000
137  Albany                 9614000    9362000    8799000
138  Louisiana-Lafayette    9522000    9981000    8312000
139  Central Michigan       9512000    9392000    9404000
140  FIU                    9498000    8517000    8398000
141  Kent State             9433000   10607000    4295000
142  Manhattan              8918000    8650000    7837000
143  Bucknell               8702000    8169000    8181000
144  South Alabama          8509000    8560000    8405000
145  San Jose State         8412000    8171000   10590000
146  Ball State             8382000    8747000    8199000
147  North Dakota State     8281000    8906000    7405000
148  Elon                   8266000    9071000    7835000
149  Eastern Michigan       8133000    8606000    8071000
150  Stephen F. Austin      8129000    9141000    8288000
151  UTSA                   8122000    9199000    8148000
152  FGCU                   8105000    8768000    7248000
153  Coastal Carolina       8021000    7148000    6765000
154  Robert Morris          7931000    7868000    7776000
155  Northern Illinois      7792000    7721000    7932000
156  Southern Miss          7718000    7751000    7748000
157  Indiana State          7555000    7226000   10732000
158  Idaho                  7364000    7602000    6936000
159  Harvard                7301000    6765000    6703000
160  Appalachian State      7298000    7196000    6894000
161  Fort Wayne             7247000    7606000    4797000
162  FAU                    7204000    4691000    3848000
163  Wofford                6997000    6785000    6809000
164  Mount St. Mary's       6932000    6485000    6548000
165  North Florida          6688000    6857000    6260000
166  South Dakota State     6452000    6016000    5567000
167  Eastern Washington     6402000    6258000    5642000
168  IUPUI                  6075000    6222000    6256000
169  Wagner                 5847000    6141000    6123000
170  Georgia Southern       5767000    2825000    5839000
171  Arkansas State         5323000    5160000    5032000
172  Texas Southern         5060000    5640000    7993000
173  Northwestern State     4822000    4609000    4425000
174  NC A&T                 4758000    5768000    5584000
175  Louisiana-Monroe       4707000    4422000    3970000
176  Hampton                4257000    5079000    4575000
177  Southern               3776000    4044000    3775000

Obviously, they're missing about half the DI schools, but the big ones are all there.

Notre Dame (105) ($13-$14Mil) is pretty low on that list considering how good their basketball program is.

5. Duke $169.8
7. Syracuse $149.6
11. North Carolina $118.9

If this is truly "economic impact" I don't see how they arrived at these numbers. Duke as an 8,000 seat venue. Syracuse is 35k and UNC is 22k. If you assume similar conference revenue and ticket prices, that means Duke's "other impact" is 145% of Syracuse and 175% of UNC. I just don't see it.

(04-05-2018 11:24 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  5. Duke $169.8
7. Syracuse $149.6
11. North Carolina $118.9

If this is truly "economic impact" I don't see how they arrived at these numbers. Duke as an 8,000 seat venue. Syracuse is 35k and UNC is 22k. If you assume similar conference revenue and ticket prices, that means Duke's "other impact" is 145% of Syracuse and 175% of UNC. I just don't see it.

Duke's and UNC's would be higher without dividing local markets with N.C. State and Wake Forest. Syracuse's is probably higher because of the lack of other P5 programs in their state. And Duke's merchandising area is strong in the Northeast. So while both UNC and Duke are national brands I think Duke may be more popular in merchandise sales in the Northeast than is UNC.

And as to the post above people forget that Indiana and Purdue grab the most local share when it comes to basketball in the state of Indiana and in the immediate vicinity of the Irish you also have Michigan State, Michigan, and Ohio State. And in hoops Notre Dame is not the national brand that their football team is.

(04-05-2018 11:24 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  5. Duke $169.8
7. Syracuse $149.6
11. North Carolina $118.9

If this is truly "economic impact" I don't see how they arrived at these numbers. Duke as an 8,000 seat venue. Syracuse is 35k and UNC is 22k. If you assume similar conference revenue and ticket prices, that means Duke's "other impact" is 145% of Syracuse and 175% of UNC. I just don't see it.

I wouldn't necessarily assume similar ticket prices, but for sure Duke's basketball ticket revenue can't be top 10 or top 20, because of their arena size. Last season Duke ranked 47th in D-I men's basketball attendance, per the official NCAA report:

fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2017.pdf

(04-05-2018 07:53 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(04-03-2018 06:22 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Here's the full list of schools, if anyone's interested. I included the 2015 figures too.

Code:

  #  SCHOOL                    2017       2016       2015
  1  Kentucky             246626000  342607000  244274000
  2  Indiana              243004000  277834000  243797000
  3  Louisville           233636000  320112000  301316000
  4  Kansas               191193000  181447000  258191000
  5  Duke                 169814000  190266000  203910000
  6  Wisconsin            160680000  178896000  206881000
  7  Syracuse             149563000  153942000  203920000
  8  Ohio State           143313000  177892000  240390000
  9  Arizona              133850000  123354000  235431000
 10  Maryland             131871000  154629000  123917000
 11  North Carolina       118875000  143015000  221604000
 12  Purdue               103278000  140440000  109559000
 13  Illinois             100760000  127004000  109124000
 14  Northwestern         100085000   93295000   81476000
 15  Arkansas              98262000  111906000   97449000
 16  UCLA                  96715000   97797000   81680000
 17  Michigan              95449000   97329000   82141000
 18  Minnesota             91420000   77855000   99709000
 19  Florida               84595000   84261000   49617000
 20  Dayton                84463000   88415000   80594000
 21  Texas                 77065000   78658000   77069000
 22  Alabama               74716000   88473000   83416000
 23  Tennessee             74159000   80352000   84498000
 24  Connecticut           73180000   57962000  137895000
 25  Marquette             69295000   71918000   59623000
 26  Michigan State        68282000   92061000  126606000
 27  Oklahoma State        68223000   53513000   53994000
 28  Washington            64201000   56725000   46532000
 29  Iowa                  63834000   60765000   62853000
 30  South Carolina        63737000   60649000   45597000
 31  Iowa State            62819000   67899000   62655000
 32  Penn State            62451000   64334000   68696000
 33  Pittsburgh            60697000   91298000   77242000
 34  Xavier                59904000   70562000   78084000
 35  Georgetown            58361000   47910000   42157000
 36  Oklahoma              58220000   51865000   51188000
 37  Clemson               58077000   56124000   32609000
 38  NC State              57450000   65488000   85232000
 39  Kansas State          56167000   57962000   76664000
 40  VCU                   52873000   56930000   50144000
 41  Georgia               52641000   37960000   33390000
 42  Miami-FL              50805000   37523000   44154000
 43  Virginia              49808000   78955000   79221000
 44  California            48859000   30822000   59658000
 45  Gonzaga               47999000   57927000   48578000
 46  Arizona State         47773000   46517000   43145000
 47  Ole Miss              47481000   51710000   38196000
 48  Nebraska              46465000   48537000   41305000
 49  Florida State         45960000   49085000   43782000
 50  Missouri              45620000   54584000   58274000
 51  Colorado              45540000   46662000   35502000
 52  Auburn                45419000   59473000   46730000
 53  Vanderbilt            44575000   44593000   39912000
 54  St. John's            44337000   45213000   55036000
 55  Villanova             43107000   50534000   40445000
 56  Texas A&M             43071000   44100000   38255000
 57  Stanford              41661000   35684000   39595000
 58  Memphis               41564000   48139000   34541000
 59  TCU                   39711000   37430000   27552000
 60  Wichita State         38393000   48906000   34488000
 61  South Florida         37975000   83745000   66829000
 62  Virginia Tech         37852000   44218000   46407000
 63  Oregon                37783000   32975000   31472000
 64  Mississippi State     37431000   58798000   37181000
 65  BYU                   36568000   26135000   28604000
 66  LSU                   36501000   38817000   37321000
 67  Baylor                34364000   33341000   39592000
 68  Wake Forest           34287000   34917000   36422000
 69  Texas Tech            34193000   30870000   34383000
 70  West Virginia         33532000   35550000   36964000
 71  Butler                32987000   22588000   20240000
 72  Providence            32787000   31734000   29656000
 73  Utah                  31475000   33894000   37388000
 74  Creighton             31417000   31619000   28084000
 75  Rutgers               31043000   28777000   25938000
 76  Cincinnati            31025000   32093000   33469000
 77  San Diego State       30931000   37871000   28110000
 78  Boston College        29738000   31773000   28175000
 79  DePaul                29597000   27210000   42911000
 80  SMU                   28130000   28804000   27406000
 81  Georgia Tech          27647000   24173000   28558000
 82  Nevada                26966000   24281000   17809000
 83  Oregon State          26306000   24789000   24898000
 84  UNLV                  25918000   26947000   46032000
 85  Houston               24578000   29387000   22658000
 86  UAB                   24344000   31762000   22250000
 87  Seton Hall            24270000   25715000   27689000
 88  St. Louis             24171000   28094000   18570000
 89  Washington State      23404000   24953000   24067000
 90  Tulsa                 22785000   23361000   22997000
 91  Temple                22510000   24449000   21209000
 92  New Mexico            21472000   31249000   27023000
 93  USC                   20862000   21409000   22181000
 94  Massachusetts         18921000   16963000   17710000
 95  Wyoming               18757000   17530000   20019000
 96  Colorado State        18648000   18370000   20486000
 97  Central Florida       17102000   16568000   22770000
 98  George Mason          16628000   15847000   20065000
 99  Boise State           16310000   19805000   17334000
100  UTEP                  16166000   17075000   12363000
101  Utah State            15973000   16951000   15696000
102  Akron                 15935000   18608000   14321000
103  East Carolina         15592000   15464000   16293000
104  James Madison         14701000   16888000   14613000
105  Notre Dame            14485000   13753000   14886000
106  Tulane                14464000   12536000    8474000
107  Rice                  14281000   13951000   13313000
108  Fresno State          14208000   14592000   11634000
109  Murray State          13986000   16380000   13534000
110  UC Irvine             13920000   14702000   13850000
111  North Texas           13778000   10653000   12121000
112  Western Kentucky      12927000   13991000   13048000
113  Texas State           12744000   13102000   12857000
114  Hawaii                12680000   13491000   13896000
115  Valparaiso            12598000   12582000   12041000
116  Northern Iowa         12560000   11656000    3026000
117  Davidson              12123000   10947000   10719000
118  Ohio                  11465000   12151000   14245000
119  Middle Tennessee      11369000   11515000   10375000
120  Marshall              11124000   11515000   11697000
121  Georgia State         11045000   11645000   11534000
122  Northeastern          11007000   11674000   10908000
123  Loyola-Chicago        11004000        N/A        N/A
124  New Mexico State      10877000   12163000   12991000
125  Belmont               10772000   11736000   10074000
126  Toledo                10632000   10582000   10346000
127  Buffalo               10544000   10406000   10507000
128  Western Michigan      10494000   10127000   10476000
129  Miami-OH              10449000    9881000    9208000
130  Montana               10100000    7432000    7654000
131  Evansville             9957000   10763000    9624000
132  Louisiana Tech         9877000    9910000   11173000
133  Bowling Green          9713000    9750000    8858000
134  Troy                   9696000    6157000    9563000
135  Iona                   9674000    9429000    9078000
136  La Salle               9614000   11199000    1665000
137  Albany                 9614000    9362000    8799000
138  Louisiana-Lafayette    9522000    9981000    8312000
139  Central Michigan       9512000    9392000    9404000
140  FIU                    9498000    8517000    8398000
141  Kent State             9433000   10607000    4295000
142  Manhattan              8918000    8650000    7837000
143  Bucknell               8702000    8169000    8181000
144  South Alabama          8509000    8560000    8405000
145  San Jose State         8412000    8171000   10590000
146  Ball State             8382000    8747000    8199000
147  North Dakota State     8281000    8906000    7405000
148  Elon                   8266000    9071000    7835000
149  Eastern Michigan       8133000    8606000    8071000
150  Stephen F. Austin      8129000    9141000    8288000
151  UTSA                   8122000    9199000    8148000
152  FGCU                   8105000    8768000    7248000
153  Coastal Carolina       8021000    7148000    6765000
154  Robert Morris          7931000    7868000    7776000
155  Northern Illinois      7792000    7721000    7932000
156  Southern Miss          7718000    7751000    7748000
157  Indiana State          7555000    7226000   10732000
158  Idaho                  7364000    7602000    6936000
159  Harvard                7301000    6765000    6703000
160  Appalachian State      7298000    7196000    6894000
161  Fort Wayne             7247000    7606000    4797000
162  FAU                    7204000    4691000    3848000
163  Wofford                6997000    6785000    6809000
164  Mount St. Mary's       6932000    6485000    6548000
165  North Florida          6688000    6857000    6260000
166  South Dakota State     6452000    6016000    5567000
167  Eastern Washington     6402000    6258000    5642000
168  IUPUI                  6075000    6222000    6256000
169  Wagner                 5847000    6141000    6123000
170  Georgia Southern       5767000    2825000    5839000
171  Arkansas State         5323000    5160000    5032000
172  Texas Southern         5060000    5640000    7993000
173  Northwestern State     4822000    4609000    4425000
174  NC A&T                 4758000    5768000    5584000
175  Louisiana-Monroe       4707000    4422000    3970000
176  Hampton                4257000    5079000    4575000
177  Southern               3776000    4044000    3775000

Obviously, they're missing about half the DI schools, but the big ones are all there.

Notre Dame (105) ($13-$14Mil) is pretty low on that list considering how good their basketball program is.

ND plays in a small 50 year old venue that holds about 9,500.

Until a year or two ago, ND basketball didn't even have its own practice facility.

Traditionally, ND basketball was an after thought from the Digger Phelps days in the Seventies until fairly recently.

It was viewed as something to mildly and distantly follow up until spring football.

ND hasn't invested much money into men and women's basketball over the past forty years or so.

Its fans are from all over the country so they don't attend many/any games and ND hadn't built up a rabid local following like say, Syracuse and Duke (to name a couple of other private schools).

ND men's basketball winning the ACC title and, more importantly, having two Elite Eight finishes recently and the women winning this year's national championship has elevated their status somewhat.

However, unless some donors pony up big money for a newer and larger basketball arena (and not much evidence of that on the horizon), ND basketball will not generate much more in the way of revenue or "value".

(04-05-2018 10:37 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-05-2018 07:53 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(04-03-2018 06:22 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Here's the full list of schools, if anyone's interested. I included the 2015 figures too.

Code:

  #  SCHOOL                    2017       2016       2015
  1  Kentucky             246626000  342607000  244274000
  2  Indiana              243004000  277834000  243797000
  3  Louisville           233636000  320112000  301316000
  4  Kansas               191193000  181447000  258191000
  5  Duke                 169814000  190266000  203910000
  6  Wisconsin            160680000  178896000  206881000
  7  Syracuse             149563000  153942000  203920000
  8  Ohio State           143313000  177892000  240390000
  9  Arizona              133850000  123354000  235431000
 10  Maryland             131871000  154629000  123917000
 11  North Carolina       118875000  143015000  221604000
 12  Purdue               103278000  140440000  109559000
 13  Illinois             100760000  127004000  109124000
 14  Northwestern         100085000   93295000   81476000
 15  Arkansas              98262000  111906000   97449000
 16  UCLA                  96715000   97797000   81680000
 17  Michigan              95449000   97329000   82141000
 18  Minnesota             91420000   77855000   99709000
 19  Florida               84595000   84261000   49617000
 20  Dayton                84463000   88415000   80594000
 21  Texas                 77065000   78658000   77069000
 22  Alabama               74716000   88473000   83416000
 23  Tennessee             74159000   80352000   84498000
 24  Connecticut           73180000   57962000  137895000
 25  Marquette             69295000   71918000   59623000
 26  Michigan State        68282000   92061000  126606000
 27  Oklahoma State        68223000   53513000   53994000
 28  Washington            64201000   56725000   46532000
 29  Iowa                  63834000   60765000   62853000
 30  South Carolina        63737000   60649000   45597000
 31  Iowa State            62819000   67899000   62655000
 32  Penn State            62451000   64334000   68696000
 33  Pittsburgh            60697000   91298000   77242000
 34  Xavier                59904000   70562000   78084000
 35  Georgetown            58361000   47910000   42157000
 36  Oklahoma              58220000   51865000   51188000
 37  Clemson               58077000   56124000   32609000
 38  NC State              57450000   65488000   85232000
 39  Kansas State          56167000   57962000   76664000
 40  VCU                   52873000   56930000   50144000
 41  Georgia               52641000   37960000   33390000
 42  Miami-FL              50805000   37523000   44154000
 43  Virginia              49808000   78955000   79221000
 44  California            48859000   30822000   59658000
 45  Gonzaga               47999000   57927000   48578000
 46  Arizona State         47773000   46517000   43145000
 47  Ole Miss              47481000   51710000   38196000
 48  Nebraska              46465000   48537000   41305000
 49  Florida State         45960000   49085000   43782000
 50  Missouri              45620000   54584000   58274000
 51  Colorado              45540000   46662000   35502000
 52  Auburn                45419000   59473000   46730000
 53  Vanderbilt            44575000   44593000   39912000
 54  St. John's            44337000   45213000   55036000
 55  Villanova             43107000   50534000   40445000
 56  Texas A&M             43071000   44100000   38255000
 57  Stanford              41661000   35684000   39595000
 58  Memphis               41564000   48139000   34541000
 59  TCU                   39711000   37430000   27552000
 60  Wichita State         38393000   48906000   34488000
 61  South Florida         37975000   83745000   66829000
 62  Virginia Tech         37852000   44218000   46407000
 63  Oregon                37783000   32975000   31472000
 64  Mississippi State     37431000   58798000   37181000
 65  BYU                   36568000   26135000   28604000
 66  LSU                   36501000   38817000   37321000
 67  Baylor                34364000   33341000   39592000
 68  Wake Forest           34287000   34917000   36422000
 69  Texas Tech            34193000   30870000   34383000
 70  West Virginia         33532000   35550000   36964000
 71  Butler                32987000   22588000   20240000
 72  Providence            32787000   31734000   29656000
 73  Utah                  31475000   33894000   37388000
 74  Creighton             31417000   31619000   28084000
 75  Rutgers               31043000   28777000   25938000
 76  Cincinnati            31025000   32093000   33469000
 77  San Diego State       30931000   37871000   28110000
 78  Boston College        29738000   31773000   28175000
 79  DePaul                29597000   27210000   42911000
 80  SMU                   28130000   28804000   27406000
 81  Georgia Tech          27647000   24173000   28558000
 82  Nevada                26966000   24281000   17809000
 83  Oregon State          26306000   24789000   24898000
 84  UNLV                  25918000   26947000   46032000
 85  Houston               24578000   29387000   22658000
 86  UAB                   24344000   31762000   22250000
 87  Seton Hall            24270000   25715000   27689000
 88  St. Louis             24171000   28094000   18570000
 89  Washington State      23404000   24953000   24067000
 90  Tulsa                 22785000   23361000   22997000
 91  Temple                22510000   24449000   21209000
 92  New Mexico            21472000   31249000   27023000
 93  USC                   20862000   21409000   22181000
 94  Massachusetts         18921000   16963000   17710000
 95  Wyoming               18757000   17530000   20019000
 96  Colorado State        18648000   18370000   20486000
 97  Central Florida       17102000   16568000   22770000
 98  George Mason          16628000   15847000   20065000
 99  Boise State           16310000   19805000   17334000
100  UTEP                  16166000   17075000   12363000
101  Utah State            15973000   16951000   15696000
102  Akron                 15935000   18608000   14321000
103  East Carolina         15592000   15464000   16293000
104  James Madison         14701000   16888000   14613000
105  Notre Dame            14485000   13753000   14886000
106  Tulane                14464000   12536000    8474000
107  Rice                  14281000   13951000   13313000
108  Fresno State          14208000   14592000   11634000
109  Murray State          13986000   16380000   13534000
110  UC Irvine             13920000   14702000   13850000
111  North Texas           13778000   10653000   12121000
112  Western Kentucky      12927000   13991000   13048000
113  Texas State           12744000   13102000   12857000
114  Hawaii                12680000   13491000   13896000
115  Valparaiso            12598000   12582000   12041000
116  Northern Iowa         12560000   11656000    3026000
117  Davidson              12123000   10947000   10719000
118  Ohio                  11465000   12151000   14245000
119  Middle Tennessee      11369000   11515000   10375000
120  Marshall              11124000   11515000   11697000
121  Georgia State         11045000   11645000   11534000
122  Northeastern          11007000   11674000   10908000
123  Loyola-Chicago        11004000        N/A        N/A
124  New Mexico State      10877000   12163000   12991000
125  Belmont               10772000   11736000   10074000
126  Toledo                10632000   10582000   10346000
127  Buffalo               10544000   10406000   10507000
128  Western Michigan      10494000   10127000   10476000
129  Miami-OH              10449000    9881000    9208000
130  Montana               10100000    7432000    7654000
131  Evansville             9957000   10763000    9624000
132  Louisiana Tech         9877000    9910000   11173000
133  Bowling Green          9713000    9750000    8858000
134  Troy                   9696000    6157000    9563000
135  Iona                   9674000    9429000    9078000
136  La Salle               9614000   11199000    1665000
137  Albany                 9614000    9362000    8799000
138  Louisiana-Lafayette    9522000    9981000    8312000
139  Central Michigan       9512000    9392000    9404000
140  FIU                    9498000    8517000    8398000
141  Kent State             9433000   10607000    4295000
142  Manhattan              8918000    8650000    7837000
143  Bucknell               8702000    8169000    8181000
144  South Alabama          8509000    8560000    8405000
145  San Jose State         8412000    8171000   10590000
146  Ball State             8382000    8747000    8199000
147  North Dakota State     8281000    8906000    7405000
148  Elon                   8266000    9071000    7835000
149  Eastern Michigan       8133000    8606000    8071000
150  Stephen F. Austin      8129000    9141000    8288000
151  UTSA                   8122000    9199000    8148000
152  FGCU                   8105000    8768000    7248000
153  Coastal Carolina       8021000    7148000    6765000
154  Robert Morris          7931000    7868000    7776000
155  Northern Illinois      7792000    7721000    7932000
156  Southern Miss          7718000    7751000    7748000
157  Indiana State          7555000    7226000   10732000
158  Idaho                  7364000    7602000    6936000
159  Harvard                7301000    6765000    6703000
160  Appalachian State      7298000    7196000    6894000
161  Fort Wayne             7247000    7606000    4797000
162  FAU                    7204000    4691000    3848000
163  Wofford                6997000    6785000    6809000
164  Mount St. Mary's       6932000    6485000    6548000
165  North Florida          6688000    6857000    6260000
166  South Dakota State     6452000    6016000    5567000
167  Eastern Washington     6402000    6258000    5642000
168  IUPUI                  6075000    6222000    6256000
169  Wagner                 5847000    6141000    6123000
170  Georgia Southern       5767000    2825000    5839000
171  Arkansas State         5323000    5160000    5032000
172  Texas Southern         5060000    5640000    7993000
173  Northwestern State     4822000    4609000    4425000
174  NC A&T                 4758000    5768000    5584000
175  Louisiana-Monroe       4707000    4422000    3970000
176  Hampton                4257000    5079000    4575000
177  Southern               3776000    4044000    3775000

Obviously, they're missing about half the DI schools, but the big ones are all there.

Notre Dame (105) ($13-$14Mil) is pretty low on that list considering how good their basketball program is.

ND plays in a small 50 year old venue that holds about 9,500.

Until a year or two ago, ND basketball didn't even have its own practice facility.

Traditionally, ND basketball was an after thought from the Digger Phelps days in the Seventies until fairly recently.

It was viewed as something to mildly and distantly follow up until spring football.

ND hasn't invested much money into men and women's basketball over the past forty years or so.

Its fans are from all over the country so they don't attend many/any games and ND hadn't built up a rabid local following like say, Syracuse and Duke (to name a couple of other private schools).

ND men's basketball winning the ACC title and, more importantly, having two Elite Eight finishes recently and the women winning this year's national championship has elevated their status somewhat.

However, unless some donors pony up big money for a newer and larger basketball arena (and not much evidence of that on the horizon), ND basketball will not generate much more in the way of revenue or "value".

Hail Terry,

I know you are for "independence" for all sports, but I often wonder what would have happened with ND basketball if they had applied some pressure on the BE Catholic schools to get in on the Big East back in the early 80s, especially after the slight dip they took from 82-84. I doubt the decade long dip from Digger's last couple years to the hiring of Brey doesn't happen and more of the things that needed to get done for Irish basketball probably happens sooner than they did.

Cheers,
Neil

No way to tell, but ND basketball was in the Big East from 1995 until 2013 and didn't even get a practice facility built.

So, being in the Big East for 17-18 years didn't move that needle at all.

(04-06-2018 07:36 AM)TerryD Wrote:  No way to tell, but ND basketball was in the Big East from 1995 until 2013 and didn't even get a practice facility built.

So, being in the Big East for 17-18 years didn't move that needle at all.

Perhaps, but I am thinking different eras. Practice facilities in bb weren't as a big deal in the 80s that they became in this century. The Big East in the 90s and early 00s was probably only the fourth best league overall and was pretty much dominated by UConn with a little bit of support by Syracuse and Georgetown, but with both of those programs down from their 80s versions.

Football expansion and the losses of Massimino and Carnesecca brought the magic of the league down in terms of basketball. Also, in the 80s Dave Gavitt's enthusiasm and desire to showcase the league in the biggest venues possible might have helped Digger plead his case with donors for more $$$ being invested in the program. Sadly we will never know.

Cheers,
Neil