(04-05-2018 06:31 AM)Hokie4Skins Wrote: BC worse than ECU? That's absurd.
Well, recruiting to Boston College is probably a lot easier, but in terms of pay and likelihood of actually building a winner, I'd think ECU is the better option.
Which goes further: $1.2 million in Boston or $900k in Greenville? (Apr 26, 2016 - The other highly newsworthy nugget to come out of the Form 990 filing was the compensation of men's basketball coach Jim Christian, which was revealed for the first time: $1,140,225, including a base salary of $930,215. )
Where it is easier to actually win? BC where you go through the ACC juggernaut or the ECU, where you've got more beatable teams on the schedule?
BC has won championships in the Big East. It's not the easiest job to be sure, but it's been shown that you can win there. They have 9 times the NCAA tournament appearances that ECU has.
A coach can win at ECU. All that had to happen was that a commitment had to be made by the school. There is plenty of talent right around the ECU campus that could make them competitive almost right away, but if the university never gave a damn about getting better then it didn't matter. ECU has clearly made a decision to get better at basketball. They have rehired a guy that is a proven recruiter in an area with plenty of talent. Dooley should do very well at ECU.
A coach can win anywhere. It's just that no one has at ECU in their entire history (except for Dooley, who they fired). This is a school that has never won its conference regular season, and has never had a 20 win regular season. They have appeared in a total of 2 NCAA tournament games, losing both by a combined 35 points.
If there is so much local talent at their disposal, you would think the law of averages would dictate that they win more often than they have. Maybe moving up to the AAC wasn't such a great idea.
(04-05-2018 06:31 AM)Hokie4Skins Wrote: BC worse than ECU? That's absurd.
Well, recruiting to Boston College is probably a lot easier, but in terms of pay and likelihood of actually building a winner, I'd think ECU is the better option.
Which goes further: $1.2 million in Boston or $900k in Greenville? (Apr 26, 2016 - The other highly newsworthy nugget to come out of the Form 990 filing was the compensation of men's basketball coach Jim Christian, which was revealed for the first time: $1,140,225, including a base salary of $930,215. )
Where it is easier to actually win? BC where you go through the ACC juggernaut or the ECU, where you've got more beatable teams on the schedule?
BC has won championships in the Big East. It's not the easiest job to be sure, but it's been shown that you can win there. They have 9 times the NCAA tournament appearances that ECU has.
A coach can win at ECU. All that had to happen was that a commitment had to be made by the school. There is plenty of talent right around the ECU campus that could make them competitive almost right away, but if the university never gave a damn about getting better then it didn't matter. ECU has clearly made a decision to get better at basketball. They have rehired a guy that is a proven recruiter in an area with plenty of talent. Dooley should do very well at ECU.
A coach can win anywhere. It's just that no one has at ECU in their entire history (except for Dooley, who they fired). This is a school that has never won its conference regular season, and has never had a 20 win regular season. They have appeared in a total of 2 NCAA tournament games, losing both by a combined 35 points.
If there is so much local talent at their disposal, you would think the law of averages would dictate that they win more often than they have. Maybe moving up to the AAC wasn't such a great idea.
(04-06-2018 11:31 AM)ken d Wrote: A coach can win anywhere. It's just that no one has at ECU in their entire history (except for Dooley, who they fired). This is a school that has never won its conference regular season, and has never had a 20 win regular season. They have appeared in a total of 2 NCAA tournament games, losing both by a combined 35 points.
If there is so much local talent at their disposal, you would think the law of averages would dictate that they win more often than they have. Maybe moving up to the AAC wasn't such a great idea.
There is no "law of averages". That's literally the gambler's fallacy, pal.
(04-05-2018 07:12 AM)Chappy Wrote: Well, recruiting to Boston College is probably a lot easier, but in terms of pay and likelihood of actually building a winner, I'd think ECU is the better option.
Which goes further: $1.2 million in Boston or $900k in Greenville? (Apr 26, 2016 - The other highly newsworthy nugget to come out of the Form 990 filing was the compensation of men's basketball coach Jim Christian, which was revealed for the first time: $1,140,225, including a base salary of $930,215. )
Where it is easier to actually win? BC where you go through the ACC juggernaut or the ECU, where you've got more beatable teams on the schedule?
BC has won championships in the Big East. It's not the easiest job to be sure, but it's been shown that you can win there. They have 9 times the NCAA tournament appearances that ECU has.
A coach can win at ECU. All that had to happen was that a commitment had to be made by the school. There is plenty of talent right around the ECU campus that could make them competitive almost right away, but if the university never gave a damn about getting better then it didn't matter. ECU has clearly made a decision to get better at basketball. They have rehired a guy that is a proven recruiter in an area with plenty of talent. Dooley should do very well at ECU.
A coach can win anywhere. It's just that no one has at ECU in their entire history (except for Dooley, who they fired). This is a school that has never won its conference regular season, and has never had a 20 win regular season. They have appeared in a total of 2 NCAA tournament games, losing both by a combined 35 points.
If there is so much local talent at their disposal, you would think the law of averages would dictate that they win more often than they have. Maybe moving up to the AAC wasn't such a great idea.
Please go back to your hole
He's just mad because his poor ole wolf puppies haven't defeated ECU since their miraculous upset of the #15 Pirates a decade ago.
(This post was last modified: 04-11-2018 11:41 PM by Indiana Bones.)
(04-04-2018 06:26 AM)Hokie4Skins Wrote: Serious, non-snarky question: Is there a worse job in the P5 + Big East + AAC than ECU?
Hmm...
Tulane is kind of a scary job - but the school has recently built an on-campus basketball facility and updated the small arena. The problem at Tulane is that Cincy, Memphis, Houston, WSU, and UConn are all in your conference. Investment alone is not enough - Tulane would have to return to the 1980s if they want to win. The expectations are realistic, however - if you don't royally suck then you keep your job. IF you manage to churn some NIT berths with the occasional NCAA showing you will be remembered for decades by alumni.
Boston College sounds appealing (good metro, decent tradition, elite conference), but they are not a big program per ACC standards... ...and holy *$%^ are there a lot of top-end programs between BC and a strong ACC finish.
Northwestern is not as bad as you'd think if you add up all the factors. B1G is pretty deep, though - and they really were a nightmare for a long damn time.
DePaul was once good (1980s-1990s) and in is a LOVELY recruiting area. The problem is that the conference is ridiculous, and DePaul isn't exactly super-rich when compared to other good Big East teams. It's a super duper high-risk job - but if you somehow manage to consistently win you are a legend. I imagine that if you take this job there will be a bit of rope - which is good.
Penn State is actually a poor hoops job in that you really don't "matter". It's a football school, and you'd have to go on a silly run to garner long-term attention. PSU has a number of rather stupid losses over the years, but they do have money IF they want to be good at squeaky shoes...
All five jobs have wonderfully high ceilings, but they are all so freaking risky that they are trap jobs.
Tulane is handicapped by playing in a high school gym and having very high academic standards.
BC doesn't belong on the list. They have had success over the years.
Northwestern is a terrible job. One NCAA ever, as a bubble team. They are remodeling the arena, so maybe that will help. The old arena was a dump. Smart kids who play hoops have better options, See Stanford.
DePaul isn't poor. DePaul is a commuter school that doesn't know what it wants to be. At times, the administration seems to handcuff the bball program, and at other times, turning a blind eye to the recruits brought in. In the early 90s, the administration stopped letting Joey bring guys like Sam Cassell (who was qualified). The program fell apart. Then, they let Fat Pat bring in anyone from the public league he wanted. DePaul got good. Things went south with Kennedy, and but for a year or two under DL, version 1, DePaul has sucked again.
DePaul needs to recruit Public League kids, commuter kid types, similar to the kids that actually attend school there. They shouldn't be trying to mirror programs like Marquette or X, which attract different types of students.
Right now, there is no interest in DePaul basketball. They need a guy who will generate some interest in the program and hit the city hard.
Penn State built a nice arena, but it seems like they really don't care about hoops. They would be happy, simply being competitive one day.
(04-05-2018 08:32 AM)Hokie4Skins Wrote: BC has won championships in the Big East. It's not the easiest job to be sure, but it's been shown that you can win there. They have 9 times the NCAA tournament appearances that ECU has.
A coach can win at ECU. All that had to happen was that a commitment had to be made by the school. There is plenty of talent right around the ECU campus that could make them competitive almost right away, but if the university never gave a damn about getting better then it didn't matter. ECU has clearly made a decision to get better at basketball. They have rehired a guy that is a proven recruiter in an area with plenty of talent. Dooley should do very well at ECU.
A coach can win anywhere. It's just that no one has at ECU in their entire history (except for Dooley, who they fired). This is a school that has never won its conference regular season, and has never had a 20 win regular season. They have appeared in a total of 2 NCAA tournament games, losing both by a combined 35 points.
If there is so much local talent at their disposal, you would think the law of averages would dictate that they win more often than they have. Maybe moving up to the AAC wasn't such a great idea.
Please go back to your hole
He's just mad because his poor ole wolf puppies haven't defeated ECU since their miraculous upset of the #15 Pirates a decade ago.
Well, I am as much a fan of ECU as I am of NC State (or Carolina, Duke, App State et al). More of my family (including my wife) went to school in Greenville than anywhere else, going all the way back to ECTTS. But let's get real here, fellas. Facts are facts. And the fact is that ECU has never been good in MBB. I doubt that Terry Holland didn't care about the sport. I just think there's more here than just a lack of interest on ECU's part.
(04-05-2018 11:26 PM)PirateMarv Wrote: A coach can win at ECU. All that had to happen was that a commitment had to be made by the school. There is plenty of talent right around the ECU campus that could make them competitive almost right away, but if the university never gave a damn about getting better then it didn't matter. ECU has clearly made a decision to get better at basketball. They have rehired a guy that is a proven recruiter in an area with plenty of talent. Dooley should do very well at ECU.
A coach can win anywhere. It's just that no one has at ECU in their entire history (except for Dooley, who they fired). This is a school that has never won its conference regular season, and has never had a 20 win regular season. They have appeared in a total of 2 NCAA tournament games, losing both by a combined 35 points.
If there is so much local talent at their disposal, you would think the law of averages would dictate that they win more often than they have. Maybe moving up to the AAC wasn't such a great idea.
Please go back to your hole
He's just mad because his poor ole wolf puppies haven't defeated ECU since their miraculous upset of the #15 Pirates a decade ago.
Well, I am as much a fan of ECU as I am of NC State (or Carolina, Duke, App State et al). More of my family (including my wife) went to school in Greenville than anywhere else, going all the way back to ECTTS. But let's get real here, fellas. Facts are facts. And the fact is that ECU has never been good in MBB. I doubt that Terry Holland didn't care about the sport. I just think there's more here than just a lack of interest on ECU's part.
Joe Dooley comes back to ECU as a much more established and polished HC. The AAC is a much more visible league than ECU has ever been in & I think you'll find that Dooley will successfully exploit this opportunity.
(04-05-2018 11:26 PM)PirateMarv Wrote: A coach can win at ECU. All that had to happen was that a commitment had to be made by the school. There is plenty of talent right around the ECU campus that could make them competitive almost right away, but if the university never gave a damn about getting better then it didn't matter. ECU has clearly made a decision to get better at basketball. They have rehired a guy that is a proven recruiter in an area with plenty of talent. Dooley should do very well at ECU.
A coach can win anywhere. It's just that no one has at ECU in their entire history (except for Dooley, who they fired). This is a school that has never won its conference regular season, and has never had a 20 win regular season. They have appeared in a total of 2 NCAA tournament games, losing both by a combined 35 points.
If there is so much local talent at their disposal, you would think the law of averages would dictate that they win more often than they have. Maybe moving up to the AAC wasn't such a great idea.
Please go back to your hole
He's just mad because his poor ole wolf puppies haven't defeated ECU since their miraculous upset of the #15 Pirates a decade ago.
Well, I am as much a fan of ECU as I am of NC State (or Carolina, Duke, App State et al). More of my family (including my wife) went to school in Greenville than anywhere else, going all the way back to ECTTS. But let's get real here, fellas. Facts are facts. And the fact is that ECU has never been good in MBB. I doubt that Terry Holland didn't care about the sport. I just think there's more here than just a lack of interest on ECU's part.
Ken D,
1.What is it then about ECU’s lack of success, in your opinion?
2. You said ECU made a mistake joining its CUSA peers in the AAC. Do you think ECU should of declined the AAC to instead stay in a conference with 10 recent start up programs plus UTEP/Rice/USM/Marshall?
(04-06-2018 11:31 AM)ken d Wrote: A coach can win anywhere. It's just that no one has at ECU in their entire history (except for Dooley, who they fired). This is a school that has never won its conference regular season, and has never had a 20 win regular season. They have appeared in a total of 2 NCAA tournament games, losing both by a combined 35 points.
If there is so much local talent at their disposal, you would think the law of averages would dictate that they win more often than they have. Maybe moving up to the AAC wasn't such a great idea.
Please go back to your hole
He's just mad because his poor ole wolf puppies haven't defeated ECU since their miraculous upset of the #15 Pirates a decade ago.
Well, I am as much a fan of ECU as I am of NC State (or Carolina, Duke, App State et al). More of my family (including my wife) went to school in Greenville than anywhere else, going all the way back to ECTTS. But let's get real here, fellas. Facts are facts. And the fact is that ECU has never been good in MBB. I doubt that Terry Holland didn't care about the sport. I just think there's more here than just a lack of interest on ECU's part.
Ken D,
1.What is it then about ECU’s lack of success, in your opinion?
2. You said ECU made a mistake joining its CUSA peers in the AAC. Do you think ECU should of declined the AAC to instead stay in a conference with 10 recent start up programs plus UTEP/Rice/USM/Marshall?
I think geography plays a huge role. Maybe if ECC had played basketball at the NCAA level as far back as the 30's they wouldn't have found themselves in such a deep hole compared to UNC, NC State, Duke and even Wake Forest. A hole that has proven very hard to dig out of. By the 60's, those schools had a virtual lockdown on Eastern North Carolina hoops talent. Even Kinston, which has produced high level talent at an extraordinary level given its size and rural location, has been dominated in recruiting by Carolina and State.
Because Greenville has its back nearly to the Atlantic, it doesn't have a 360 degree sphere of influence. Closer to 180 degrees. And all around them are schools with rabid hoops fanbases that date back to pre WWII days. I really don't see ECU overcoming that in a league like the AAC, where the Pirates are the geographical outliers to almost everyone else in their conference. They aren't even remotely close to anyone in any direction.
I think proximity to rivals is more important in basketball than football. Or at least relatively so. In football you can generate rivalry interest from greater distances than you can in hoops.
I understand why they pursued membership in an AQ league. I just wonder if they truly realized that when the offer finally came it was already too late to help them much in football (and financially). Maybe it was also too late to stop the train - the AQ chase had a life of its own by then. But the cost was to destroy any regional identity for all its other sports.
Like UConn, they aren't getting much value from their football membership in the AAC, and they have put the success of their other sports at risk. Unlike UConn, I think the football rivalries the Pirates had enjoyed in the region - Carolina, State, Va Tech, West Virginia, South Carolina - could have formed the foundation for a better than average indy schedule. And maybe its not too late for that, despite the increasing pressure on those schools to schedule 3 of their 4 OOC games at home.
IMO, both UConn and ECU belong in other conferences for sports besides football. That might be a tough bullet to bite now, though, for both schools.
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2018 01:28 PM by ken d.)
(04-11-2018 08:12 AM)NBPirate Wrote: Please go back to your hole
He's just mad because his poor ole wolf puppies haven't defeated ECU since their miraculous upset of the #15 Pirates a decade ago.
Well, I am as much a fan of ECU as I am of NC State (or Carolina, Duke, App State et al). More of my family (including my wife) went to school in Greenville than anywhere else, going all the way back to ECTTS. But let's get real here, fellas. Facts are facts. And the fact is that ECU has never been good in MBB. I doubt that Terry Holland didn't care about the sport. I just think there's more here than just a lack of interest on ECU's part.
Ken D,
1.What is it then about ECU’s lack of success, in your opinion?
2. You said ECU made a mistake joining its CUSA peers in the AAC. Do you think ECU should of declined the AAC to instead stay in a conference with 10 recent start up programs plus UTEP/Rice/USM/Marshall?
I think geography plays a huge role. Maybe if ECC had played basketball at the NCAA level as far back as the 30's they wouldn't have found themselves in such a deep hole compared to UNC, NC State, Duke and even Wake Forest. A hole that has proven very hard to dig out of. By the 60's, those schools had a virtual lockdown on Eastern North Carolina hoops talent. Even Kinston, which has produced high level talent at an extraordinary level given its size and rural location, has been dominated in recruiting by Carolina and State.
Because Greenville has its back nearly to the Atlantic, it doesn't have a 360 degree sphere of influence. Closer to 180 degrees. And all around them are schools with rabid hoops fanbases that date back to pre WWII days. I really don't see ECU overcoming that in a league like the AAC, where the Pirates are the geographical outliers to almost everyone else in their conference. They aren't even remotely close to anyone in any direction.
I think proximity to rivals is more important in basketball than football. Or at least relatively so. In football you can generate rivalry interest from greater distances than you can in hoops.
I understand why they pursued membership in an AQ league. I just wonder if they truly realized that when the offer finally came it was already too late to help them much in football (and financially). Maybe it was also too late to stop the train - the AQ chase had a life of its own by then. But the cost was to destroy any regional identity for all its other sports.
Like UConn, they aren't getting much value from their football membership in the AAC, and they have put the success of their other sports at risk. Unlike UConn, I think the football rivalries the Pirates had enjoyed in the region - Carolina, State, Va Tech, West Virginia, South Carolina - could have formed the foundation for a better than average indy schedule. And maybe its not too late for that, despite the increasing pressure on those schools to schedule 3 of their 4 OOC games at home.
IMO, both UConn and ECU belong in other conferences for sports besides football. That might be a tough bullet to bite now, though, for both schools.
ECU's problem was Compher. It's that simple. Yes, he set us back but it's gonna be funny to see you not even want to address this issue once things are turned around in the next year or 2 in football and much improved in basketball. Dooley sees an opportunity in ECU and he's not the type to fail. He's too driven and intelligent to allow that to happen.
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2018 04:27 PM by Indiana Bones.)
(04-11-2018 11:41 PM)Indiana Bones Wrote: He's just mad because his poor ole wolf puppies haven't defeated ECU since their miraculous upset of the #15 Pirates a decade ago.
Well, I am as much a fan of ECU as I am of NC State (or Carolina, Duke, App State et al). More of my family (including my wife) went to school in Greenville than anywhere else, going all the way back to ECTTS. But let's get real here, fellas. Facts are facts. And the fact is that ECU has never been good in MBB. I doubt that Terry Holland didn't care about the sport. I just think there's more here than just a lack of interest on ECU's part.
Ken D,
1.What is it then about ECU’s lack of success, in your opinion?
2. You said ECU made a mistake joining its CUSA peers in the AAC. Do you think ECU should of declined the AAC to instead stay in a conference with 10 recent start up programs plus UTEP/Rice/USM/Marshall?
I think geography plays a huge role. Maybe if ECC had played basketball at the NCAA level as far back as the 30's they wouldn't have found themselves in such a deep hole compared to UNC, NC State, Duke and even Wake Forest. A hole that has proven very hard to dig out of. By the 60's, those schools had a virtual lockdown on Eastern North Carolina hoops talent. Even Kinston, which has produced high level talent at an extraordinary level given its size and rural location, has been dominated in recruiting by Carolina and State.
Because Greenville has its back nearly to the Atlantic, it doesn't have a 360 degree sphere of influence. Closer to 180 degrees. And all around them are schools with rabid hoops fanbases that date back to pre WWII days. I really don't see ECU overcoming that in a league like the AAC, where the Pirates are the geographical outliers to almost everyone else in their conference. They aren't even remotely close to anyone in any direction.
I think proximity to rivals is more important in basketball than football. Or at least relatively so. In football you can generate rivalry interest from greater distances than you can in hoops.
I understand why they pursued membership in an AQ league. I just wonder if they truly realized that when the offer finally came it was already too late to help them much in football (and financially). Maybe it was also too late to stop the train - the AQ chase had a life of its own by then. But the cost was to destroy any regional identity for all its other sports.
Like UConn, they aren't getting much value from their football membership in the AAC, and they have put the success of their other sports at risk. Unlike UConn, I think the football rivalries the Pirates had enjoyed in the region - Carolina, State, Va Tech, West Virginia, South Carolina - could have formed the foundation for a better than average indy schedule. And maybe its not too late for that, despite the increasing pressure on those schools to schedule 3 of their 4 OOC games at home.
IMO, both UConn and ECU belong in other conferences for sports besides football. That might be a tough bullet to bite now, though, for both schools.
ECU's problem was Compher. It's that simple. Yes, he set us back but it's gonna be funny to see you not even want to address this issue once things are turned around in the next year or 2 in football and much improved in basketball. Dooley sees an opportunity in ECU and he's not the type to fail. He's too driven and intelligent to allow that to happen.
Right, because most coaches take a new job thinking they are too lazy and stupid to succeed.
Dooley is a good coach and ECU is a HUGE challenge. By some miracle he actually takes ECU to a post-season, he will likely be signing a huge contract with a power conference team in the not to far future. Not like he has a huge buyout with his ECU salary.
(04-12-2018 01:45 PM)ken d Wrote: Well, I am as much a fan of ECU as I am of NC State (or Carolina, Duke, App State et al). More of my family (including my wife) went to school in Greenville than anywhere else, going all the way back to ECTTS. But let's get real here, fellas. Facts are facts. And the fact is that ECU has never been good in MBB. I doubt that Terry Holland didn't care about the sport. I just think there's more here than just a lack of interest on ECU's part.
Ken D,
1.What is it then about ECU’s lack of success, in your opinion?
2. You said ECU made a mistake joining its CUSA peers in the AAC. Do you think ECU should of declined the AAC to instead stay in a conference with 10 recent start up programs plus UTEP/Rice/USM/Marshall?
I think geography plays a huge role. Maybe if ECC had played basketball at the NCAA level as far back as the 30's they wouldn't have found themselves in such a deep hole compared to UNC, NC State, Duke and even Wake Forest. A hole that has proven very hard to dig out of. By the 60's, those schools had a virtual lockdown on Eastern North Carolina hoops talent. Even Kinston, which has produced high level talent at an extraordinary level given its size and rural location, has been dominated in recruiting by Carolina and State.
Because Greenville has its back nearly to the Atlantic, it doesn't have a 360 degree sphere of influence. Closer to 180 degrees. And all around them are schools with rabid hoops fanbases that date back to pre WWII days. I really don't see ECU overcoming that in a league like the AAC, where the Pirates are the geographical outliers to almost everyone else in their conference. They aren't even remotely close to anyone in any direction.
I think proximity to rivals is more important in basketball than football. Or at least relatively so. In football you can generate rivalry interest from greater distances than you can in hoops.
I understand why they pursued membership in an AQ league. I just wonder if they truly realized that when the offer finally came it was already too late to help them much in football (and financially). Maybe it was also too late to stop the train - the AQ chase had a life of its own by then. But the cost was to destroy any regional identity for all its other sports.
Like UConn, they aren't getting much value from their football membership in the AAC, and they have put the success of their other sports at risk. Unlike UConn, I think the football rivalries the Pirates had enjoyed in the region - Carolina, State, Va Tech, West Virginia, South Carolina - could have formed the foundation for a better than average indy schedule. And maybe its not too late for that, despite the increasing pressure on those schools to schedule 3 of their 4 OOC games at home.
IMO, both UConn and ECU belong in other conferences for sports besides football. That might be a tough bullet to bite now, though, for both schools.
ECU's problem was Compher. It's that simple. Yes, he set us back but it's gonna be funny to see you not even want to address this issue once things are turned around in the next year or 2 in football and much improved in basketball. Dooley sees an opportunity in ECU and he's not the type to fail. He's too driven and intelligent to allow that to happen.
Right, because most coaches take a new job thinking they are too lazy and stupid to succeed.
Dooley is a good coach and ECU is a HUGE challenge. By some miracle he actually takes ECU to a post-season, he will likely be signing a huge contract with a power conference team in the not to far future. Not like he has a huge buyout with his ECU salary.
MsmWolf, So Dooley probably won't make it, but if he does, except him to be gone to a cartel 5 school ASAP. Hahahaha
(04-11-2018 11:41 PM)Indiana Bones Wrote: He's just mad because his poor ole wolf puppies haven't defeated ECU since their miraculous upset of the #15 Pirates a decade ago.
Well, I am as much a fan of ECU as I am of NC State (or Carolina, Duke, App State et al). More of my family (including my wife) went to school in Greenville than anywhere else, going all the way back to ECTTS. But let's get real here, fellas. Facts are facts. And the fact is that ECU has never been good in MBB. I doubt that Terry Holland didn't care about the sport. I just think there's more here than just a lack of interest on ECU's part.
Ken D,
1.What is it then about ECU’s lack of success, in your opinion?
2. You said ECU made a mistake joining its CUSA peers in the AAC. Do you think ECU should of declined the AAC to instead stay in a conference with 10 recent start up programs plus UTEP/Rice/USM/Marshall?
I think geography plays a huge role. Maybe if ECC had played basketball at the NCAA level as far back as the 30's they wouldn't have found themselves in such a deep hole compared to UNC, NC State, Duke and even Wake Forest. A hole that has proven very hard to dig out of. By the 60's, those schools had a virtual lockdown on Eastern North Carolina hoops talent. Even Kinston, which has produced high level talent at an extraordinary level given its size and rural location, has been dominated in recruiting by Carolina and State.
Because Greenville has its back nearly to the Atlantic, it doesn't have a 360 degree sphere of influence. Closer to 180 degrees. And all around them are schools with rabid hoops fanbases that date back to pre WWII days. I really don't see ECU overcoming that in a league like the AAC, where the Pirates are the geographical outliers to almost everyone else in their conference. They aren't even remotely close to anyone in any direction.
I think proximity to rivals is more important in basketball than football. Or at least relatively so. In football you can generate rivalry interest from greater distances than you can in hoops.
I understand why they pursued membership in an AQ league. I just wonder if they truly realized that when the offer finally came it was already too late to help them much in football (and financially). Maybe it was also too late to stop the train - the AQ chase had a life of its own by then. But the cost was to destroy any regional identity for all its other sports.
Like UConn, they aren't getting much value from their football membership in the AAC, and they have put the success of their other sports at risk. Unlike UConn, I think the football rivalries the Pirates had enjoyed in the region - Carolina, State, Va Tech, West Virginia, South Carolina - could have formed the foundation for a better than average indy schedule. And maybe its not too late for that, despite the increasing pressure on those schools to schedule 3 of their 4 OOC games at home.
IMO, both UConn and ECU belong in other conferences for sports besides football. That might be a tough bullet to bite now, though, for both schools.
ECU's problem was Compher. It's that simple. Yes, he set us back but it's gonna be funny to see you not even want to address this issue once things are turned around in the next year or 2 in football and much improved in basketball. Dooley sees an opportunity in ECU and he's not the type to fail. He's too driven and intelligent to allow that to happen.
I have the sense that you think I am anti-ECU, and perhaps even worse, an NC State fan. Neither of those things are true, of course. Nothing would please me more than to see East Carolina athletics thrive.
But I would be a fool to ignore history. And history suggests that believing that getting rid of Jeff Compher will solve all of ECU's woes, perceived and real, is a simplistic fantasy. What is real is that for the nearly 40 years that the Pirates have been playing a schedule that was more FBS like than FCS like, they have been a .500 football program (actually, slightly below) that has been competitive with its older, more established, regional rivals.
I haven't tallied up their record in hoops over that time, but I'm pretty sure it is also below .500. That can't all be laid at Compher's feet. If I'm not mistaken, not even the hiring of Jeff Lebo was his fault. Optimism can be intoxicating. But intoxication that feels wonderful on the front end often leads to hangovers on the back end. I think I'd rather wait to do my drinking in celebration of actual (sustained) success than in anticipation of it.
(04-15-2018 07:58 AM)ken d Wrote: I have the sense that you think I am anti-ECU, and perhaps even worse, an NC State fan. Neither of those things are true, of course. Nothing would please me more than to see East Carolina athletics thrive.
I've got to admit, I always assumed you were an NC state fan.
(04-15-2018 07:58 AM)ken d Wrote: I have the sense that you think I am anti-ECU, and perhaps even worse, an NC State fan. Neither of those things are true, of course. Nothing would please me more than to see East Carolina athletics thrive.
I've got to admit, I always assumed you were an NC state fan.
I think it's hard for many North Carolinians to believe you could live here and not pick one team to root for. But when you grew up around New York in the 50's your sports allegiances often tended to be with pro teams.
When you marry into a North Carolina family, especially one with ties to all the NC schools, picking just one didn't seem like the wisest move.
One of the first college football games I ever attended was the '75 (I think) game between UNC and ECU, when Carlester Crumpler shredded the Heels in a 38-17 win that really wasn't that close. We got the tickets from my wife's brother-in-law who was a Duke graduate, and went to the game with her brother, a State grad whose two daughters were attending ECU at the time. In short, it was complicated.
My ACC basketball watching was mostly on TV until State moved out of Reynolds Coliseum. Before that I had gone to two Carolina games - one in Carmichael Auditorium (Maryland) and one in the Dean Dome (Notre Dame), with tickets given to me by friends of assistant coaches from the visiting teams. I had gone to one game at Reynolds, and my neck hurt for a week because our seats were so bad.
So, when State moved to the ESA at the Fairgrounds 15 minutes from my house, I could actually afford to get tickets without having to get a second mortgage to get high enough on the priority list. Maybe that's why some think I'm a State fan. I finally gave up those tickets because I got tired of hearing State fans around me complain that UNC was out to get them when a call went against them even when they were playing somebody like Virginia at the time. It wore me down to the point it just wasn't fun anymore. So I'm back to watching the ACC (and ECU, on the rare occasions I can find them) on TV.
(This post was last modified: 04-16-2018 11:18 AM by ken d.)
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East Carolina hires back Joe Dooley
