(04-12-2018 04:49 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  

(04-12-2018 04:08 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(04-12-2018 03:31 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  Moving from a 16,500 seat stadium that didn't sell out to an originally 28,000 seat now 38k+ seat stadium should tell you all you need to know about the fanbase growing.

Winning + exposure (nationally, regionally, and locally) grew us.

You think Boise State becomes a national brand on winning alone? No, exposure got them there.

Also Moss and Pennington don't get there on talent alone playing at a school like Marshall. We both know you need the machine in Bristol behind you to get that far.

So you dont have the number of TV game vs attendance to back it up on? I think what you are not adding into your post.....

a few 1AA championships and then a jump to FBS did more for the move and jump in attendance "16,500 seat stadium that didn't sell out to an originally 28,000 seat" That Marshall usually averages in the 20 to 24 range. Marshall was playing games on SSN & WSAZ way before the attendance jump...that happened with winning 1aa championships and the move to FBS

No I don't keep track of TV to attendance ratio figures. You'll have to take the word of a guy who says He buys tickets now bc of watching them on TV then. Any AD in the country and common sense.

Those local and regional channels you named were channels the ESPN Plus syndicated network aired on. I clearly said local and regional helped too.

Any form of real channel exposure helps. Not just ESPN. I also clearly named other networks as examples as well.

Yes I read where you said local channels but the point is till Marshall started winning and big, like national championships then a move to FBS...

with just TV it did not grow the fan base. So it wasn't the TV exposure, it took consistent winning and rankings for the fanbase to grow.

I dunno, Guns. Marshall still had pretty good attendance before they started winning. I remember games in the late 70s and early 80s at old Fairfield Stadium where it was pretty full (12000 capacity). And we stunk up the joint. Marshall has always had a pretty good following. That said, I really miss the local broadcasts withKeith Morehouse and Sonny Randle.

(04-12-2018 04:55 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(04-12-2018 04:32 PM)Auburn_Blazer Wrote:  

(04-12-2018 04:18 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(04-12-2018 04:09 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  Somebody doesn't understand the premise of growing the brand while at the same time providing evidence of the brand growing. LMAO.

It wasn't about growing the brand. I asked you to name a school that grow their fanbase on the back of espn.

From 1997 to 2003 UofL played 21 games on espn/2 a avg of 3 games a season and most of those were CUSA games

Virginia Tech would be an example. They had one good season in 1996, but then started playing big games on Thursdays and that exposure helped turn them into a brand.

I selfishly want something with ESPN because it should help UAB. Birmingham is the #1 market for college football. Not only that but I've been told Birmingham is the #1 market for most college sports, and ESPNU in particular. Casual bammers and barners in Birmingham start catching UAB on TV, doing well, and playing in their new stadium, it will absolutely start to drive more fans.

I think you are kind of understating Virginia Tech's history in making then sound like a sister of the poor before 1996....

93,94,95 they were ranked and in the top 10 in 1995 and they were ranked in '86

I don't see how it was just a boost from espn off the 1996 season since they were ranked 14 in '97, 14 in '98, 2 in '99, 2 in '00 and followed up that up with 5, 3, 3 rankings. Did playing on espn help...I'm sure it did.

But to be honest it's like the whole world has changed since the late 90s...

espn had more of a impact and today there's probably 20 to 1 more games shown and that waters down the importance of espn and TV. Still a impact but not as much today.

I'm sure there's probably a few others...BCS/P5 programs that espn helped but Not one of our schools are in that same boat....conference wise and that plays a larger role.

You can point to espn as the main beneficiary when it comes to a lot of the middle and lower P5 schools in basketball....before espn started pimping conference. A lot of the lower to middle schools in these conferences were awful in basketball and with very little history

I'm really not understating their history. I recalled the incorrect year, but VT was a garbage program prior to their 96 Sugar Bowl victory over Texas. You think VT is recruiting those players without playing on TV? Virginia's primary recruiting area is Tidewater, a 5 hour drive from Blacksburg. Frank isn't convincing a kid's mom to come to VT unless she's able to watch him.

I disagree with your 2nd premise and gave you reasons why. You put college football on ESPN in Birmingham and we're going to watch it. It would greatly help UAB's program if they're that team.

(04-12-2018 04:18 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(04-12-2018 04:09 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  Somebody doesn't understand the premise of growing the brand while at the same time providing evidence of the brand growing. LMAO.

It wasn't about growing the brand. I asked you to name a school that grow their fanbase on the back of espn.

From 1997 to 2003 UofL played 21 games on espn/2 a avg of 3 games a season and most of those were CUSA games

I'm not even going try to help you understand the correlation between the fan base and the brand and importance that TV impressions make toward that. For such a self professed enlightened one I would think you would get it. Oh well. I will just sit here and enjoy watching you continue to make an ass out of yourself.

(04-12-2018 10:23 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  Every team in this conference had more games on some form that a fan could watch from their home in the last few (3 or 4) years than they did in the previous 10 years. Yet actual attendance drops.

I miss 2003... back when you could watch the entire Marshall football season on legit television.

2003
--------------------------
HOFSTRA (ESPN+)
at Tennessee (ESPN2)
TOLEDO (ESPN)
at Kansas State (Fox Sports Net)
at Troy (ESPN+)
KENT STATE (Local broadcast)
at Buffalo (ESPN+)
at Western Michigan (Fox Sports Net)
Akron (ESPN Gameplan)
at Miami-Ohio (ESPN2)
at UCF (ESPN2)
OHIO (Fox Sports Net)



2017
-------------------------
MIAMI-OHIO (Facebook)
at NC State (ACC Network Extra / ESPN3)
KENT STATE (CUSA.tv)
at Cincinnati (ESPN3)
Charlotte (CUSA.tv)
ODU (ESPN3)
at MTSU (ESPN2)
FIU (Stadium)
at FAU (CBSSN)
WKU (beIN)
at UTSA (Facebook)
SOUTHERN MISS (Stadium)

(04-12-2018 09:54 PM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  

(04-12-2018 10:23 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  Every team in this conference had more games on some form that a fan could watch from their home in the last few (3 or 4) years than they did in the previous 10 years. Yet actual attendance drops.

I miss 2003... back when you could watch the entire Marshall football season on legit television.

2003
--------------------------
HOFSTRA (ESPN+)
at Tennessee (ESPN2)
TOLEDO (ESPN)
at Kansas State (Fox Sports Net)
at Troy (ESPN+)
KENT STATE (Local broadcast)
at Buffalo (ESPN+)
at Western Michigan (Fox Sports Net)
Akron (ESPN Gameplan)
at Miami-Ohio (ESPN2)
at UCF (ESPN2)
OHIO (Fox Sports Net)



2017
-------------------------
MIAMI-OHIO (Facebook)
at NC State (ACC Network Extra / ESPN3)
KENT STATE (CUSA.tv)
at Cincinnati (ESPN3)
Charlotte (CUSA.tv)
ODU (ESPN3)
at MTSU (ESPN2)
FIU (Stadium)
at FAU (CBSSN)
WKU (beIN)
at UTSA (Facebook)
SOUTHERN MISS (Stadium)

All those games on real TV yet that season was our 3rd best attended in 15 seasons. Didn't seem to hurt our attendance at all. How about that...

>> 2003: 27,837 average.

>> 2004: 25,933 average.

>> 2005: 26,510 average.

>> 2006: 26,031 average.

>> 2007: 30,020 average.

>> 2008: 24,766 average.

>> 2009: 22,236 average.

>> 2010: 27,046 average.

>> 2011: 25,874 average.

>> 2012: 24,896 average.

>> 2013: 25,023 average.

>> 2014: 27,461 average.

>> 2015: 26,322 average.

>> 2016: 24,760 average.

>> 2017: 21,741 average.

(Note: 2007 is artificially inflated due to a home sell out vs. WVU. Without that 2003 would be 2nd)

(04-12-2018 09:54 PM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  

(04-12-2018 10:23 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  Every team in this conference had more games on some form that a fan could watch from their home in the last few (3 or 4) years than they did in the previous 10 years. Yet actual attendance drops.

I miss 2003... back when you could watch the entire Marshall football season on legit television.

2003
--------------------------
HOFSTRA (ESPN+)
at Tennessee (ESPN2)
TOLEDO (ESPN)
at Kansas State (Fox Sports Net)
at Troy (ESPN+)
KENT STATE (Local broadcast)
at Buffalo (ESPN+)
at Western Michigan (Fox Sports Net)
Akron (ESPN Gameplan)
at Miami-Ohio (ESPN2)
at UCF (ESPN2)
OHIO (Fox Sports Net)



2017
-------------------------
MIAMI-OHIO (Facebook)
at NC State (ACC Network Extra / ESPN3)
KENT STATE (CUSA.tv)
at Cincinnati (ESPN3)
Charlotte (CUSA.tv)
ODU (ESPN3)
at MTSU (ESPN2)
FIU (Stadium)
at FAU (CBSSN)
WKU (beIN)
at UTSA (Facebook)
SOUTHERN MISS (Stadium)

I think you are mistaken on Kent St...there's no TV listed for that and the espn+ games you had to pay for since no local TV is listed. But guess what...talk your AD and President into moving back to the MAC and that can happen.

As far as I know there's nothing stopping your local channel from showing Marshall home games unless they are on nationally. Western's channel picks up all the stadium and facebook games and all home games.

Missing something is OK but that's not the world we live in today.....

but I guess it depends on what you call real TV....everyone of Marshall's games last year could have been seen on a real TV. All it took was a $3 cord and 30 seconds of your time and a laptop, or phone.

(04-13-2018 05:24 AM)MUsince96 Wrote:  

(04-12-2018 09:54 PM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  

(04-12-2018 10:23 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  Every team in this conference had more games on some form that a fan could watch from their home in the last few (3 or 4) years than they did in the previous 10 years. Yet actual attendance drops.

I miss 2003... back when you could watch the entire Marshall football season on legit television.

2003
--------------------------
HOFSTRA (ESPN+)
at Tennessee (ESPN2)
TOLEDO (ESPN)
at Kansas State (Fox Sports Net)
at Troy (ESPN+)
KENT STATE (Local broadcast)
at Buffalo (ESPN+)
at Western Michigan (Fox Sports Net)
Akron (ESPN Gameplan)
at Miami-Ohio (ESPN2)
at UCF (ESPN2)
OHIO (Fox Sports Net)



2017
-------------------------
MIAMI-OHIO (Facebook)
at NC State (ACC Network Extra / ESPN3)
KENT STATE (CUSA.tv)
at Cincinnati (ESPN3)
Charlotte (CUSA.tv)
ODU (ESPN3)
at MTSU (ESPN2)
FIU (Stadium)
at FAU (CBSSN)
WKU (beIN)
at UTSA (Facebook)
SOUTHERN MISS (Stadium)

All those games on real TV yet that season was our 3rd best attended in 15 seasons. Didn't seem to hurt our attendance at all. How about that...

>> 2003: 27,837 average.

>> 2004: 25,933 average.

>> 2005: 26,510 average.

>> 2006: 26,031 average.

>> 2007: 30,020 average.

>> 2008: 24,766 average.

>> 2009: 22,236 average.

>> 2010: 27,046 average.

>> 2011: 25,874 average.

>> 2012: 24,896 average.

>> 2013: 25,023 average.

>> 2014: 27,461 average.

>> 2015: 26,322 average.

>> 2016: 24,760 average.

>> 2017: 21,741 average.

(Note: 2007 is artificially inflated due to a home sell out vs. WVU. Without that 2003 would be 2nd)

I notice you didn't go back to when Marshall played 0 to 3 games on espn or any form of TV....


1998-25835
1999-28673
2000-27884
2001-25455 I assume the last game was affected by weather since Marshall was riding a 9 game W streak and only 16,041 showed up and 2 weeks before 30k

it looks like for Marshall ...winning and weather dictates attendance. Not building a fanbase because of TV

(04-12-2018 05:07 PM)THUNDERGround Wrote:  I dunno, Guns. Marshall still had pretty good attendance before they started winning. I remember games in the late 70s and early 80s at old Fairfield Stadium where it was pretty full (12000 capacity). And we stunk up the joint. Marshall has always had a pretty good following. That said, I really miss the local broadcasts withKeith Morehouse and Sonny Randle.

Marshall is a football school playing in a football city and in a football state I wasn't saying Marshall ever had bad attendance. My argument was Marshall did not need TV to build their base. It will not grow, by a large % if every game was shown on local TV or espnu on a Wednesday or Thursday, or Friday.

We all are limited in the numbers we can draw because, one, we are hindered by the "state school". Two most of us draw from a small region. Three those 30somethings that are just now watching Marshall on TV....if they were going to be a hardcore Marshall fan (any of us) they would by now. Fourth those younger fans look at TV different than we older fans do. Those in their 20s look at streaming as part of "TV" and if they want to watch. They know how to find the game.

Hell I want every game on "real TV" but I know thats not possible. But there's not many Western or CUSA games I cant watch with just a little bit of effort.

I used 15 seasons because 2003 was the year he used and it's a nice clean number.

Also ESPN Plus aired for free through syndication on WSAZ and many other stations. It was called the Thundering Herd Network. Keith Morehouse and Sonny Randle called the games. It was started by Marshall alum, and ESPN executive Dan Shoemaker. Dan just passed away last week so there's many articles and radio podcasts discussing his role in raising the national profile of Marshall through exposure.

ESPN Game Plan was the PPV model you purchased.

(04-13-2018 02:34 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  I used 15 seasons because 2003 was the year he used and it's a nice clean number.

Also ESPN Plus aired for free through syndication on WSAZ and many other stations. It was called the Thundering Herd Network. Keith Morehouse and Sonny Randle called the games. It was started by Marshall alum, and ESPN executive Dan Shoemaker. Dan just passed away last week so there's many articles and radio podcasts discussing his role in raising the national profile of Marshall through exposure.

ESPN Game Plan was the PPV model you purchased.

We are going back and forth on something that keeps changing for one of us....

the argument was from you that espn will build Marshall a fanbase. My opinion Marshall did not need a espn to get to where they are (fans). I will give you the fact local TV might have helped a long time ago to get people interested that were not fans. But Marshall's attendance has not changed much with or without TV.

Winning and weather plays a more important role. Winning will be the deciding factor on growing the fanbase...not localTV or espn. My opinion is Marshall is like the rest of us...

we all are limited to how far that base can grow (outside of being nation ranked year after year). We all have the same defectors to growing. Regional base. State school is the big draw and takes most fan support. espn has told everyone long enough 30 and under that only a few conferences matter. Some of us have a larger base than others and Marshall is one of those larger bases. But it's still very limited without becoming a national ranked team year in year out

I don't think it's changing yg. Everyone is simply telling you you're wrong. You simply don't understand how consistent TV exposure from the top Network in sports can impact not only brand but attendance. You dismiss UL but that's just narcissism. Everybody in the business knows ESPN essentially made Louisville. Had it not been for ESPN eve UL basketball would have become irrelevant again in the shadows of Kentucky and the deals that the SEC was getting with CBS and ESPN. I will take the word over the AD than your misguided opinion. There is a reason why schools fall over themselves to get on ESPN. UL's experience demonstrated to everyone else what can happen if you whore yourself out to ESPN. While I believe that dichotomy is beginning to change ESPN is still the most important player to ensure max exposure. You simply don't understand this concept. It's ok. Just accept it and move on. You don't have to know everything.

I don't agree with SEVERAL things yg says--BUT to say he has an incorrect understanding of TV exposure and networks and has a biased take BECAUSE---he is from podunk WKU and podunk BG is ludicrous.

Your comments are bombastic.

(04-13-2018 03:46 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  I don't think it's changing yg. Everyone is simply telling you you're wrong. Your take is biased because you are from Podunk wkcc in Podunk BG and simply don't understand how consistent TV exposure from the top Network in sports can impact not only brand but attendance. You dismiss UL but that's just narcissism. Everybody in the business knows ESPN essentially made Louisville. Had it not been for ESPN eve UL basketball would have become irrelevant again in the shadows of Kentucky and the deals that the SEC was getting with CBS and ESPN. I will take the word over the AD than your misguided opinion. There is a reason why schools fall over themselves to get on ESPN. UL's experience demonstrated to everyone else what can happen if you whore yourself out to ESPN. While I believe that dichotomy is beginning to change ESPN is still the most important player to ensure max exposure. You simply don't understand this concept. It's ok. Just accept it and move on. You don't have to know everything.

If I'm not mistaken, Bowling Green has a larger population than Huntington. Lol

Guns' response to my post was pretty solid, IMO. I think everyone is arguing something so fluid that any argument can apply at some point.

(04-13-2018 06:08 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  I don't agree with SEVERAL things yg says--BUT to say he has an incorrect understanding of TV exposure and networks and has a biased take BECAUSE---he is from podunk WKU and podunk BG is ludicrous.

Your comments are bombastic.

Do the reasons why he fails to get this really matter? I took it out just for you and you know what it didn't change anything. So, I'm not sure what purpose your response served.